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Who owns the Valley? - The Ownership Thread

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  • Hello new friend.

    So then, who owns what?
    Bloody heck!! - CharltonLife is going all Doomsday Book on us!!
  • Hello new friend.

    So then, who owns what?
    The king is dead, long live the king!
  • How much are we paying in rent?
    £77million
  • Gillis said:
    Hello new friend.

    So then, who owns what?
    The king is dead, long live the king!
    A pale imitation
  • LenGlover said:
    Rothko said:
    So this document on Companies House talks about the mortgaged properties, people with better understand will know 

    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/01788466/filing-history/MzI1NTQ4OTMxOGFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0
    It looks to me as if there is an effective  mortgage to Staprix, which incorporates the old  directors' loans as a 'permitted encumbrance,' for all the Club property ie The Valley, the training ground and other odds and sods. All the property is described as 'leasehold' so it seems as if Roland (via Staprix ultimately presumably) remains as the freeholder. Charlton Athletic Holdings Ltd still shows Duchatelet as having 75% or more significant control which would add credence to that theory.

    What it is hard to tell, although I only skimmed it, is which entity now has legal title over the club 'leasehold property'. Anyone with access to land registry?


    I have a free account with Nimbus Maps which has a feed which pulls through from LR I believe so you can see all owners of both f/h or long leasehold properties.  I believe long leasehold is any lease over 7 years as this then has to be registered at land registry (although not 100% certain on that).  There is no l/h visible at the valley except for one owner by O2 (which will simply be a mast).  There are 3x freehold titles, all owned by Charlton Holdings.

    So either, Nimbus Maps fees is not real time or the leasehold is less than 7 years I guess.  I hope it is the former.
  • Posted this on another thread, is this an accurate synopsis or not?

    - ESI have taken over the Football Club. They now hold the leasehold for the football club, and with it the ‘EFL Golden Share’. The Football Club company now has ESI with significant control and Roland / Murray resigned. Likely only paid a nominal fee at this stage.

    - Roland still holds the freehold of the ground / training ground. ESI most likely paying a peppercorn rent for now. ESI have a purchase agreement in place to be activated within the next 6 months. 

    - Roland has now put a charge against some assets. These fall second in line to the existing Directors loans charge. These are most likely some insurance play should ESI welch on their agreed purchase order, or the outstanding amt he is due from the sale.

    - There is a question on whether this new charge is what it seems or carries its validity given the position of the existing charge, lack of notification to first charge holders.

    is that correct?
  • edited January 2020
    @Grapevine49 thanks for your post on the late takeover thread and expertise therein.

    It makes sense that RD has essentially just ignored the ex-director charges and that they have no real recourse because they have suffered no loss.

    However, I don't understand your argument, if I understand it correctly, that ESI have no legal relationship with the ex-director loans because those loans are to CAFC Ltd. It is the owners of CAFC Ltd that are liable to repay them when they fall due, and that is now ESI, notwithstanding the charges also fall on Baton and Holdings.

    Secondly, although my working assumption was that there are no new leases, the new charge appears to state at schedule 1 that there are new leases in respect of the assets named, which basically cover everything.
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  • Thanks @Dippenhall

    I assume ( yes I know) that the unnamed guarantor isTahnoon  Nimer.

    Is it possible/unlikely/impossible for it to be anyone else?

    Is it unusual for the guarantor not to be named?
  • edited January 2020
    .
  • edited January 2020
    The football club, ie CAFC ltd is owned by ESI having acquired the shares of CAFC Ltd.  That's the key transaction, and apart from that NOTHING has changed in terms of who owns what.  

    CAFC Holdings has the freehold title and CAFC Ltd has a leasehold interest from CAFC Holdings in the Valley and Sparrows Lane paying a nominal rent to CAFC Holdings - same as before.

    The Directors are owed money by CAFC Holdings Ltd. - same as before - not ESI and not CAFC Ltd.

    The Directors' loans are not due to be repaid - same as before - their interests have not been prejudiced by the sale. What has changed for them is that the Staprix loan and their £7m are now secured on the same assets - before only their £7m debt was secured.  if the realised value of the Valley and Sparrows Lane is sufficient to cover both it's not a problem - if not, it's a legal issue to be resolved.

    What is relevant to understand is that if CAFC doesn't pay the rent or repay the loan to CAFC Holdings when required, the lease is cancelled and Staprix gets its money back by selling the Valley and Sparrows Lane.  That is the crux of the risk faced until the freehold and leasehold interests are married under a single ultimate owner. 

    A guarantor is referred to in the Charge so Staprix is not relying on a loss making football business to repay the debt.  So default is unlikely if, as might be assumed, the guarantor is a wealthy middle east Sheik - and a non-issue when  the lender, the borrower, the club and the freeholder are all ultimately controlled by the same person. 

    Better we are where we are than perishing under the control of RD while all the complexities of the sale are finalised. 


    Not according to the accounts. The loans were originally made to Charlton Athletic plc and novated to Charlton Athletic Football Company Limited, where they have appeared annually in the accounts ever since.

    In addition there would have been no point in making loans to Holdings. All it does is collect the rent from CAFC Ltd. 
  • My concern isn’t with the various charges, it’s with the acquisition. 

    At the time we were told it was done this way because buying Holdings would slow the deal down, and they wanted to have control of the football side over the transfer window. All good.

    But why was buying Holding more complicated? The charges are there for all to see, and the land registry can easily be search to establish the ownership of the land. So why the delay? It sounded like there were searches/surveys that needed to be completed. If that’s the case, then whatever these are, they need to be completed and confirm whatever Roland assented to be true.  If that’s not the case, there was no need to delay. 

    So what is it that needs to be confirmed, and what happens if the answer isn’t in line with Rolands assertion?
  • I imagine surveys and searches are Indeed one of the reasons, another reason might be the legal issues between CAFC / BRC at the training ground.

    I'm willing to trust ESi on this until the 6month point passes.
  • I trust ESI, But the vagueness surrounding this makes me think there must be some risk, however small, that it can’t easily be resolved. 
  • The football club, ie CAFC ltd is owned by ESI having acquired the shares of CAFC Ltd.  That's the key transaction, and apart from that NOTHING has changed in terms of who owns what.  

    CAFC Holdings has the freehold title and CAFC Ltd has a leasehold interest from CAFC Holdings in the Valley and Sparrows Lane paying a nominal rent to CAFC Holdings - same as before.

    The Directors are owed money by CAFC Holdings Ltd. - same as before - not ESI and not CAFC Ltd.

    The Directors' loans are not due to be repaid - same as before - their interests have not been prejudiced by the sale. What has changed for them is that the Staprix loan and their £7m are now secured on the same assets - before only their £7m debt was secured.  if the realised value of the Valley and Sparrows Lane is sufficient to cover both it's not a problem - if not, it's a legal issue to be resolved.

    What is relevant to understand is that if CAFC doesn't pay the rent or repay the loan to CAFC Holdings when required, the lease is cancelled and Staprix gets its money back by selling the Valley and Sparrows Lane.  That is the crux of the risk faced until the freehold and leasehold interests are married under a single ultimate owner. 

    A guarantor is referred to in the Charge so Staprix is not relying on a loss making football business to repay the debt.  So default is unlikely if, as might be assumed, the guarantor is a wealthy middle east Sheik - and a non-issue when  the lender, the borrower, the club and the freeholder are all ultimately controlled by the same person. 

    Better we are where we are than perishing under the control of RD while all the complexities of the sale are finalised. 


    Not according to the accounts. The loans were originally made to Charlton Athletic plc and novated to Charlton Athletic Football Company Limited, where they have appeared annually in the accounts ever since.

    In addition there would have been no point in making loans to Holdings. All it does is collect the rent from CAFC Ltd. 
    Agreed, I should have said the liability for  repaying the Directors under the charge is Holdings not ESI.  If we assume CAFC repay the loan we can ignore the fact that the assets have been charged with the Staprix loan since the charge would never be triggered.

    if CAFC don’t repay the Directors loans the assets which are charged to cover the debt are held by Holdings not ESI.

    Details of the guarantor for the Staprix loan will be in the private loan agreement, not the public charge.

    The guarantor could be ESI but it is not normal practice in the UK for parent companies to indemnify subsidiary company debts and lenders will naturally seek personal guarantees rather than corporate ones.  Could be all directors of ESI are the guarantor but then would expect term would have been guarantors.


  • edited January 2020
    The football club, ie CAFC ltd is owned by ESI having acquired the shares of CAFC Ltd.  That's the key transaction, and apart from that NOTHING has changed in terms of who owns what.  

    CAFC Holdings has the freehold title and CAFC Ltd has a leasehold interest from CAFC Holdings in the Valley and Sparrows Lane paying a nominal rent to CAFC Holdings - same as before.

    The Directors are owed money by CAFC Holdings Ltd. - same as before - not ESI and not CAFC Ltd.

    The Directors' loans are not due to be repaid - same as before - their interests have not been prejudiced by the sale. What has changed for them is that the Staprix loan and their £7m are now secured on the same assets - before only their £7m debt was secured.  if the realised value of the Valley and Sparrows Lane is sufficient to cover both it's not a problem - if not, it's a legal issue to be resolved.

    What is relevant to understand is that if CAFC doesn't pay the rent or repay the loan to CAFC Holdings when required, the lease is cancelled and Staprix gets its money back by selling the Valley and Sparrows Lane.  That is the crux of the risk faced until the freehold and leasehold interests are married under a single ultimate owner. 

    A guarantor is referred to in the Charge so Staprix is not relying on a loss making football business to repay the debt.  So default is unlikely if, as might be assumed, the guarantor is a wealthy middle east Sheik - and a non-issue when  the lender, the borrower, the club and the freeholder are all ultimately controlled by the same person. 

    Better we are where we are than perishing under the control of RD while all the complexities of the sale are finalised. 


    Not according to the accounts. The loans were originally made to Charlton Athletic plc and novated to Charlton Athletic Football Company Limited, where they have appeared annually in the accounts ever since.

    In addition there would have been no point in making loans to Holdings. All it does is collect the rent from CAFC Ltd. 
    Agreed, I should have said the liability for  repaying the Directors under the charge is Holdings not ESI.  If we assume CAFC repay the loan we can ignore the fact that the assets have been charged with the Staprix loan since the charge would never be triggered.

    if CAFC don’t repay the Directors loans the assets which are charged to cover the debt are held by Holdings not ESI.

    Details of the guarantor for the Staprix loan will be in the private loan agreement, not the public charge.

    The guarantor could be ESI but it is not normal practice in the UK for parent companies to indemnify subsidiary company debts and lenders will naturally seek personal guarantees rather than corporate ones.  Could be all directors of ESI are the guarantor but then would expect term would have been guarantors.


    Hence we have a loan repayable to one entity which is now ultimately guaranteed against the freehold assets held by another which is separately owned and controlled, which is not what the ex-directors agreed and was presumably why their charges extended across all three companies, including Baton, and prohibit the fixed assets being the subject of a disposal without consent, including any new lease.

    In addition we have an assertion in the new charge, albeit insubstantial and probably wrong, that Staprix now holds the first legal charge, as if it can just overwrite the original loan terms on a whim. That’s a bit like me taking a second mortgage on my house and telling the original lender to suck it up as the new loan unilaterally gets priority because I say so.
  • I thought that the document said that staprix held the second, lesser charge behind that of the existing charges.
  • Clause 15 recognises prior charges take precedence.
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  • Is the power of attorney is just a bit of harmless legaleese, or whether it means exactly what it says, which would mean Douchatelet controls the expenditure.
  • You beat me to it there Grapevine. 
    That's what I was going to say.
    You beat me to it there blackpool72.
    That's what i was going to say.
  • edited January 2020
    @Grapevine49 - your detailed response is appreciated, but you know very well Matt Southall has been acting as a director since January 2nd or before. He was, for example, negotiating a contract with senior employee Lee Bowyer and his agent. You can't have it both ways.
  • edited January 2020
    Edit: I read Dippenhall's assertion it's a secondary charge. 

    Although that doesn't tally with putting up a sign about first charge, but I'll let that go :smile:

  • I seem to remember David messaging (twitter?) that he travelled to the  Middlesbough game and was impressed with Mat (his wife was also impressed for different reasons 😉).

    Hope I got this right 😀.
  • I seem to remember David messaging (twitter?) that he travelled to the  Middlesbough game and was impressed with Mat (his wife was also impressed for different reasons 😉).

    Hope I got this right 😀.
    You have. It was Dave who fancied Matt

    : - )
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