I'm not comfortable with the large growth in housing in the South East on open land BUT it is a direct consequence of the growing population, which in recent years has been heavily driven by immigration. If you support uncontrolled/high levels of immigration (which is a perfectly legitimate position) you also need to accept that a lot of the extra houses needed will be on nice land as there simply aren't the brown field sites available in the South East, where many want to live, and the alternative of "densification" of urban areas is also unpopular - we don't want massive blocks going up on every spare scrap of land.
We also desperately need to spread the economic development across the country too.
A graph of the population of the South East around London would actually be more relevant than the population of the UK as whole.
Many areas of the UK are experiencing difficulties with schools and public services shutting down because people gravitate towards the big cities and the south east.
I don't believe increased population of the UK is really the problem although it doesn't help. What we really need to do is spread out (as mentioned before!)
Kent is now the front garden of England. Concreted over to park the cars while the back garden is empty and unused!
I'm not comfortable with the large growth in housing in the South East on open land BUT it is a direct consequence of the growing population, which in recent years has been heavily driven by immigration. If you support uncontrolled/high levels of immigration (which is a perfectly legitimate position) you also need to accept that a lot of the extra houses needed will be on nice land as there simply aren't the brown field sites available in the South East, where many want to live, and the alternative of "densification" of urban areas is also unpopular - we don't want massive blocks going up on every spare scrap of land.
We also desperately need to spread the economic development across the country too.
A graph of the population of the South East around London would actually be more relevant than the population of the UK as whole.
Many areas of the UK are experiencing difficulties with schools and public services shutting down because people gravitate towards the big cities and the south east.
I don't believe increased population of the UK is really the problem although it doesn't help. What we really need to do is spread out (as mentioned before!)
Kent is now the front garden of England. Concreted over to park the cars while the back garden is empty and unused!
That's really well put mate
The space is here, just need to share the love a bit in terms of the spread of wealth and investment.
If Kent has a delicate ecostructure threatened by humans then people living there, if they care about the Kentish environment, should move away, they would be welcome in Lewisham and Kent could be free of humans.
I’m surprised to see your Norman Tebbit ‘get on your bike’ post!
People have to work in London but don’t want to live in the city - that’s a perfectly acceptable position. London is an attractive city.
City sprawl is a fact of modern international life. Greater London covers about 1600 sq km. By comparison with other major cities, Los Angeles is 38000 sq km and Tokyo is 14000 sq km.
Even if it became “the city of London and Kent” in a hundred or two hundred years from now, it still wouldn’t even be half the size of Tokyo. And there’s still plenty of green space to get through before that is close to being reality.
If Kent has a delicate ecostructure threatened by humans then people living there, if they care about the Kentish environment, should move away, they would be welcome in Lewisham and Kent could be free of humans.
I’m surprised to see your Norman Tebbit ‘get on your bike’ post!
Not quite though. He criticised those who had nothing. I am inviting the good people of Maidstone/Medway to come to Downham, or Deptford, or Brockley, or Grove Park, or Lee or New Cross to protect the precious Kentish environment. Surely they're not all about pulling up the drawbridge are they? Lewisham welcomes the people now residing in Kent with no concern if they are born elsewhere, are commuters, or don't have English as their first language. They would probably be greeted as heroes, as green warriors protecting the delicate Kentish ecosystem.
If Kent has a delicate ecostructure threatened by humans then people living there, if they care about the Kentish environment, should move away, they would be welcome in Lewisham and Kent could be free of humans.
I’m surprised to see your Norman Tebbit ‘get on your bike’ post!
Not quite though. He criticised those who had nothing. I am inviting the good people of Maidstone/Medway to come to Downham, or Deptford, or Brockley, or Grove Park, or Lee or New Cross to protect the precious Kentish environment. Surely they're not all about pulling up the drawbridge are they? Lewisham welcomes the people now residing in Kent with no concern if they are born elsewhere, are commuters, or don't have English as their first language. They would probably be greeted as heroes, as green warriors protecting the delicate Kentish ecosystem.
The Kent ecosystem is delicate and it is time people realise that messing up that ecosystem has consequences for everyone. We need green spaces for mental and physical wellbeing. We need green spaces to produce the food we need, it is incredibly short sighted to think that a food supply can always be imported. We need the green spaces to produce the insects that pollinate the crops in the fields that produce the food we need. We need green spaces to produce the plants that feed those insects that pollinate the crops that feed us. We need the trees in the woodland to use the excess carbon dioxide we put into the atmosphere. I could go on and on.
People have to work in London but don’t want to live in the city - that’s a perfectly acceptable position. London is an attractive city.
City sprawl is a fact of modern international life. Greater London covers about 1600 sq km. By comparison with other major cities, Los Angeles is 38000 sq km and Tokyo is 14000 sq km.
Even if it became “the city of London and Kent” in a hundred or two hundred years from now, it still wouldn’t even be half the size of Tokyo. And there’s still plenty of green space to get through before that is close to being reality.
As I posted earlier on, the London skyline has changed dramatically over the last 35 years. The proliferation of high rise buildings means that there are far more people working in the capital than there were 35 years ago. Jobs need to be created in other parts of the country so that the burden of housing is not borne too heavily by south eastern counties.
Skyline certainly has changed in London ME14addick, I was quite shocked when I went to Greenwich Park and looked out across the River last year. I have seen references to Lewisham and Deptford, both places I lived in as a student 40 odd plus years ago, I could not afford it then and certainly not now, and was why we moved out to Bexley. My grandparents were brought up in Deptford, in Creek Road, I shudder to think what prices houses go for, let alone Brockley around Hillyfields, where my wife's family originated from. We were only talking about if we bought a house there what it would cost, forget about a house, at those prices, maybe a 2 bedroomed flat in a road I would have avoided walking down in my time. Anyway too many Millwall types lurking about for my liking.
If Kent has a delicate ecostructure threatened by humans then people living there, if they care about the Kentish environment, should move away, they would be welcome in Lewisham and Kent could be free of humans.
I’m surprised to see your Norman Tebbit ‘get on your bike’ post!
Not quite though. He criticised those who had nothing. I am inviting the good people of Maidstone/Medway to come to Downham, or Deptford, or Brockley, or Grove Park, or Lee or New Cross to protect the precious Kentish environment. Surely they're not all about pulling up the drawbridge are they? Lewisham welcomes the people now residing in Kent with no concern if they are born elsewhere, are commuters, or don't have English as their first language. They would probably be greeted as heroes, as green warriors protecting the delicate Kentish ecosystem.
The Kent ecosystem is delicate and it is time people realise that messing up that ecosystem has consequences for everyone. We need green spaces for mental and physical wellbeing. We need green spaces to produce the food we need, it is incredibly short sighted to think that a food supply can always be imported. We need the green spaces to produce the insects that pollinate the crops in the fields that produce the food we need. We need green spaces to produce the plants that feed those insects that pollinate the crops that feed us. We need the trees in the woodland to use the excess carbon dioxide we put into the atmosphere. I could go on and on.
I agree, though it's debatable how much farmland is helping the insects, seeing that it's the insecticides being used by farmers which are killing the bees...
If Kent has a delicate ecostructure threatened by humans then people living there, if they care about the Kentish environment, should move away, they would be welcome in Lewisham and Kent could be free of humans.
I’m surprised to see your Norman Tebbit ‘get on your bike’ post!
Not quite though. He criticised those who had nothing. I am inviting the good people of Maidstone/Medway to come to Downham, or Deptford, or Brockley, or Grove Park, or Lee or New Cross to protect the precious Kentish environment. Surely they're not all about pulling up the drawbridge are they? Lewisham welcomes the people now residing in Kent with no concern if they are born elsewhere, are commuters, or don't have English as their first language. They would probably be greeted as heroes, as green warriors protecting the delicate Kentish ecosystem.
The Kent ecosystem is delicate and it is time people realise that messing up that ecosystem has consequences for everyone. We need green spaces for mental and physical wellbeing. We need green spaces to produce the food we need, it is incredibly short sighted to think that a food supply can always be imported. We need the green spaces to produce the insects that pollinate the crops in the fields that produce the food we need. We need green spaces to produce the plants that feed those insects that pollinate the crops that feed us. We need the trees in the woodland to use the excess carbon dioxide we put into the atmosphere. I could go on and on.
It's criminal that Seth's views on immigration have been so cruelly overlooked. We need another referendum to give him the mandate he deserves.
Not criminal at all. When it comes to actual votes I usually end up on the losing side. I wonder if being outvoted also means that the losers ought to shut up. As for immigration in my ideal world we would all be citizens of the same planet, and the notion of immigration would be a curious quaint old fashioned concept.
A really interesting thread ME14, so thank you for raising it. Its a shame our resident socialists have hijacked for cheap political point scoring as usual.
Next to Pembury we have a development of some 500 houses, which adds around 1500 new residents. Whilst they will gravitate towards Tunbridge Wells for work and recreation, it adds about 25% to our local population of 6k. There are plans to build new houses in green field areas along the A21 "corridor" in Pembury, along with other plans for housing and a new car "showroom". I understand from a friend who follows local politics more closely than I that these plans have all been bundled up in to one for consideration alongside multiple other plans for the County, for consideration against central government targets. He advises that the process is departing from the norm, and that parish/borough councillors are not getting the visibility they normally would.
i doubt if its any conspiracy - just unusual processes to deal with an unusual situation.
Whilst working as a contractor last year for a south eastern County Council i saw documents that indicate that multiple towns and villages are undergoing large local housing developments that add between 10-25% increases in the population of those towns and villages. I'm sure this information is in the public domain, but it made me take stock of what is happening in this area.
I've lived in Pembury 20 years and the biggest change is in the number of vehicles; I haven't noticed extra housing as such. We have plenty of countryside walks but they are criss crossed by lanes that become rat runs from late afternoon. Nowhere in a seven mile radius do you escape the noise of traffic. I can't quantify what this means to the environment but I can imagine. Additional housing in my area isn't responsible for this alone. Its the additional houses and people across a wide area that commute through and around Pembury.
Put simply I just don't want to live here any more. So what can i do to alter the trajectory?
As others comment above, the problem is national population increase. Its refreshing that others on this thread have grasped the nettle of immigration as one cause. But no main stream politician will ever do so because of the stigma of alleged racism. The other challenge is controlling birth rates, but our country seems very sensitive towards any potential infringement of human rights (lockdown being a good example). I think we will slide very politely towards a distinctly overcrowded corner of the country with local flora, fauna, environment and wellbeing of the population being the casualty.
If Kent has a delicate ecostructure threatened by humans then people living there, if they care about the Kentish environment, should move away, they would be welcome in Lewisham and Kent could be free of humans.
I’m surprised to see your Norman Tebbit ‘get on your bike’ post!
Not quite though. He criticised those who had nothing. I am inviting the good people of Maidstone/Medway to come to Downham, or Deptford, or Brockley, or Grove Park, or Lee or New Cross to protect the precious Kentish environment. Surely they're not all about pulling up the drawbridge are they? Lewisham welcomes the people now residing in Kent with no concern if they are born elsewhere, are commuters, or don't have English as their first language. They would probably be greeted as heroes, as green warriors protecting the delicate Kentish ecosystem.
The Kent ecosystem is delicate and it is time people realise that messing up that ecosystem has consequences for everyone. We need green spaces for mental and physical wellbeing. We need green spaces to produce the food we need, it is incredibly short sighted to think that a food supply can always be imported. We need the green spaces to produce the insects that pollinate the crops in the fields that produce the food we need. We need green spaces to produce the plants that feed those insects that pollinate the crops that feed us. We need the trees in the woodland to use the excess carbon dioxide we put into the atmosphere. I could go on and on.
I agree, though it's debatable how much farmland is helping the insects, seeing that it's the insecticides being used by farmers which are killing the bees...
A very good point Not just bees but all manner of insects. Anyone on here of a certain age will remember that back in the day if you were to drive for any length of time on our motorways the windscreen and front of the car would be covered in all manner of insects splattered across them. Nowadays not a single one.
If Kent has a delicate ecostructure threatened by humans then people living there, if they care about the Kentish environment, should move away, they would be welcome in Lewisham and Kent could be free of humans.
I’m surprised to see your Norman Tebbit ‘get on your bike’ post!
Not quite though. He criticised those who had nothing. I am inviting the good people of Maidstone/Medway to come to Downham, or Deptford, or Brockley, or Grove Park, or Lee or New Cross to protect the precious Kentish environment. Surely they're not all about pulling up the drawbridge are they? Lewisham welcomes the people now residing in Kent with no concern if they are born elsewhere, are commuters, or don't have English as their first language. They would probably be greeted as heroes, as green warriors protecting the delicate Kentish ecosystem.
The Kent ecosystem is delicate and it is time people realise that messing up that ecosystem has consequences for everyone. We need green spaces for mental and physical wellbeing. We need green spaces to produce the food we need, it is incredibly short sighted to think that a food supply can always be imported. We need the green spaces to produce the insects that pollinate the crops in the fields that produce the food we need. We need green spaces to produce the plants that feed those insects that pollinate the crops that feed us. We need the trees in the woodland to use the excess carbon dioxide we put into the atmosphere. I could go on and on.
Mankind has been messing up the ecosystem ever since we moved from being hunter gatherers in small family units to farmers in organised populations.
Ecosystems are delicate in more places than Kent where 75% of the land is still undeveloped - although there is clearly a major concentration in Medway. People have to live where the jobs are - as myself and others have said - move the jobs.
If Kent has a delicate ecostructure threatened by humans then people living there, if they care about the Kentish environment, should move away, they would be welcome in Lewisham and Kent could be free of humans.
I’m surprised to see your Norman Tebbit ‘get on your bike’ post!
Not quite though. He criticised those who had nothing. I am inviting the good people of Maidstone/Medway to come to Downham, or Deptford, or Brockley, or Grove Park, or Lee or New Cross to protect the precious Kentish environment. Surely they're not all about pulling up the drawbridge are they? Lewisham welcomes the people now residing in Kent with no concern if they are born elsewhere, are commuters, or don't have English as their first language. They would probably be greeted as heroes, as green warriors protecting the delicate Kentish ecosystem.
The Kent ecosystem is delicate and it is time people realise that messing up that ecosystem has consequences for everyone. We need green spaces for mental and physical wellbeing. We need green spaces to produce the food we need, it is incredibly short sighted to think that a food supply can always be imported. We need the green spaces to produce the insects that pollinate the crops in the fields that produce the food we need. We need green spaces to produce the plants that feed those insects that pollinate the crops that feed us. We need the trees in the woodland to use the excess carbon dioxide we put into the atmosphere. I could go on and on.
I agree, though it's debatable how much farmland is helping the insects, seeing that it's the insecticides being used by farmers which are killing the bees...
A very good point Not just bees but all manner of insects. Anyone on here of a certain age will remember that back in the day if you were to drive for any length of time on our motorways the windscreen and front of the car would be covered in all manner of insects splattered across them. Nowadays not a single one.
Motorways yes but go nearly cross country in Kent, Hampshire, Sussex and you will be able to redecorate the front of any vehicle pretty quickly.
Bees need our help due to insecticides and generally people de-beeing gardens. Luckily we have the space to help the little pollinating fuckers out and we get lots of bumbles and honey bees in the garden and grow stuff that they seem to like. The bumbles are my mates and so friendly I've had them sat on my hand having a drink of sugar water before which seems to refuel them to carry on buzzing those unfeasible large bodies around with tiny wings
If Kent has a delicate ecostructure threatened by humans then people living there, if they care about the Kentish environment, should move away, they would be welcome in Lewisham and Kent could be free of humans.
I’m surprised to see your Norman Tebbit ‘get on your bike’ post!
Not quite though. He criticised those who had nothing. I am inviting the good people of Maidstone/Medway to come to Downham, or Deptford, or Brockley, or Grove Park, or Lee or New Cross to protect the precious Kentish environment. Surely they're not all about pulling up the drawbridge are they? Lewisham welcomes the people now residing in Kent with no concern if they are born elsewhere, are commuters, or don't have English as their first language. They would probably be greeted as heroes, as green warriors protecting the delicate Kentish ecosystem.
The Kent ecosystem is delicate and it is time people realise that messing up that ecosystem has consequences for everyone. We need green spaces for mental and physical wellbeing. We need green spaces to produce the food we need, it is incredibly short sighted to think that a food supply can always be imported. We need the green spaces to produce the insects that pollinate the crops in the fields that produce the food we need. We need green spaces to produce the plants that feed those insects that pollinate the crops that feed us. We need the trees in the woodland to use the excess carbon dioxide we put into the atmosphere. I could go on and on.
I agree, though it's debatable how much farmland is helping the insects, seeing that it's the insecticides being used by farmers which are killing the bees...
A very good point Not just bees but all manner of insects. Anyone on here of a certain age will remember that back in the day if you were to drive for any length of time on our motorways the windscreen and front of the car would be covered in all manner of insects splattered across them. Nowadays not a single one.
Motorways yes but go nearly cross country in Kent, Hampshire, Sussex and you will be able to redecorate the front of any vehicle pretty quickly.
Bees need our help due to insecticides and generally people de-beeing gardens. Luckily we have the space to help the little pollinating fuckers out and we get lots of bumbles and honey bees in the garden and grow stuff that they seem to like. The bumbles are my mates and so friendly I've had them sat on my hand having a drink of sugar water before which seems to refuel them to carry on buzzing those unfeasible large bodies around with tiny wings
Gardens surely aren't the problem though, a beehive in Greenwich or Catford may be very nice, but it's the lack of bees in rural areas (around the world) which is the big threat to farming and the ecosystem
Isn't the problem world population increase, not national population increase?
Not entirely. The world population may be gradually growing, but in addition there is also immigration from poorer countries to richer ones, and indeed from poorer regions to richer ones - I can't imagine many people leave London to go and work in Blackburn or Middlesbrough for example.
Isn't the problem world population increase, not national population increase?
Not entirely. The world population may be gradually growing, but in addition there is also immigration from poorer countries to richer ones, and indeed from poorer regions to richer ones - I can't imagine many people leave London to go and work in Blackburn or Middlesbrough for example.
I certainly understand your point about migration (a word I prefer to immigration) which has happened throughout time. The UK and the USA are countries that seem to have been established on the basis of migration...sometimes accompanied by violence and genocide between humans. For those who believe in free market economics (especially as in markets finding their own level) l would've thought they are cool about the free movement of people.
Japan, Italy, Ukraine, Poland, Venezuela, Romania, Cuba, Greece, Portugal, Hungary, Belarus, Serbia, Bulgaria, Lebanon, Croatia, Moldova, Georgia, Bosnia & H, Albania, Lithuania, Latvia, Martinique, US Virgin Islands, Bermuda, American Samoa, Gibraltar, Wallis & Futuna and Saint Pierre Miquelon had population falls over the last 12 months. 28 out of 235 countries. A great site (below), you can literally see the population rising before your eyes.
I understand this link. The problem I have philosophically and ideologically is the notion that the Polish population is not part of the world population as a whole. There has been no population increase in the section of road in SE London I live in, indeed the poor lady three doors down taken by the Rona has led to a population decrease in that section. I think it remains true to say that the human population of the planet has increased whether they call themselves Polish, Chinese or South East Londoners.
I understand this link. The problem I have philosophically and ideologically is the notion that the Polish population is not part of the world population as a whole. There has been no population increase in the section of road in SE London I live in, indeed the poor lady three doors down taken by the Rona has led to a population decrease in that section. I think it remains true to say that the human population of the planet has increased whether they call themselves Polish, Chinese or South East Londoners.
The Polish population is definitely part of the world population.
Comments
Many areas of the UK are experiencing difficulties with schools and public services shutting down because people gravitate towards the big cities and the south east.
I don't believe increased population of the UK is really the problem although it doesn't help. What we really need to do is spread out (as mentioned before!)
Kent is now the front garden of England. Concreted over to park the cars while the back garden is empty and unused!
The space is here, just need to share the love a bit in terms of the spread of wealth and investment.
City sprawl is a fact of modern international life. Greater London covers about 1600 sq km. By comparison with other major cities, Los Angeles is 38000 sq km and Tokyo is 14000 sq km.
Even if it became “the city of London and Kent” in a hundred or two hundred years from now, it still wouldn’t even be half the size of Tokyo. And there’s still plenty of green space to get through before that is close to being reality.
I am inviting the good people of Maidstone/Medway to come to Downham, or Deptford, or Brockley, or Grove Park, or Lee or New Cross to protect the precious Kentish environment.
Surely they're not all about pulling up the drawbridge are they?
Lewisham welcomes the people now residing in Kent with no concern if they are born elsewhere, are commuters, or don't have English as their first language. They would probably be greeted as heroes, as green warriors protecting the delicate Kentish ecosystem.
I wonder if being outvoted also means that the losers ought to shut up.
As for immigration in my ideal world we would all be citizens of the same planet, and the notion of immigration would be a curious quaint old fashioned concept.
Next to Pembury we have a development of some 500 houses, which adds around 1500 new residents. Whilst they will gravitate towards Tunbridge Wells for work and recreation, it adds about 25% to our local population of 6k. There are plans to build new houses in green field areas along the A21 "corridor" in Pembury, along with other plans for housing and a new car "showroom". I understand from a friend who follows local politics more closely than I that these plans have all been bundled up in to one for consideration alongside multiple other plans for the County, for consideration against central government targets. He advises that the process is departing from the norm, and that parish/borough councillors are not getting the visibility they normally would.
i doubt if its any conspiracy - just unusual processes to deal with an unusual situation.
Whilst working as a contractor last year for a south eastern County Council i saw documents that indicate that multiple towns and villages are undergoing large local housing developments that add between 10-25% increases in the population of those towns and villages. I'm sure this information is in the public domain, but it made me take stock of what is happening in this area.
I've lived in Pembury 20 years and the biggest change is in the number of vehicles; I haven't noticed extra housing as such. We have plenty of countryside walks but they are criss crossed by lanes that become rat runs from late afternoon. Nowhere in a seven mile radius do you escape the noise of traffic. I can't quantify what this means to the environment but I can imagine. Additional housing in my area isn't responsible for this alone. Its the additional houses and people across a wide area that commute through and around Pembury.
Put simply I just don't want to live here any more. So what can i do to alter the trajectory?
As others comment above, the problem is national population increase. Its refreshing that others on this thread have grasped the nettle of immigration as one cause. But no main stream politician will ever do so because of the stigma of alleged racism. The other challenge is controlling birth rates, but our country seems very sensitive towards any potential infringement of human rights (lockdown being a good example). I think we will slide very politely towards a distinctly overcrowded corner of the country with local flora, fauna, environment and wellbeing of the population being the casualty.
Not just bees but all manner of insects.
Anyone on here of a certain age will remember that back in the day if you were to drive for any length of time on our motorways the windscreen and front of the car would be covered in all manner of insects splattered across them.
Nowadays not a single one.
Bees need our help due to insecticides and generally people de-beeing gardens. Luckily we have the space to help the little pollinating fuckers out and we get lots of bumbles and honey bees in the garden and grow stuff that they seem to like. The bumbles are my mates and so friendly I've had them sat on my hand having a drink of sugar water before which seems to refuel them to carry on buzzing those unfeasible large bodies around with tiny wings
https://www.kentwildlifetrust.org.uk/news/bugs-matter-survey-reveals-50-fewer-insects-15-years-ago
I just googled Poland for instance and their population is falling.
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/poland-population/
For those who believe in free market economics (especially as in markets finding their own level) l would've thought they are cool about the free movement of people.
28 out of 235 countries. A great site (below), you can literally see the population rising before your eyes.
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/population-by-country/
There has been no population increase in the section of road in SE London I live in, indeed the poor lady three doors down taken by the Rona has led to a population decrease in that section.
I think it remains true to say that the human population of the planet has increased whether they call themselves Polish, Chinese or South East Londoners.
European bison to be introduced into Kent woodland
Bison will be introduced to UK woodland to restore an ancient habitat and its wildlife, conservationists have said.
The £1m project, led by Kent Wildlife Trust and the Wildwood Trust, is aimed at helping to manage Blean Woods near Canterbury.
A wild herd of European bison, the continent's largest land mammal, will be in their new home by spring 2022.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-53349929
You can't wash your hands in a buffalo.