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ESI 1 v ESI 2 - Initial Hearing 01-02/09/2020, Court of Appeal 17/09/2020 (p127)

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Comments

  • All this legal bollocks really is in a different world.
  • Valley11
    Valley11 Posts: 11,983
    Valley11 said:
    What does this mean for the TS deal? 
    Nobody can possibly answer that.
    As in; can he buy the club at 4:01 next weds?
  • The judge has effectively said that he doesn't believe Sandgaard's interest in buying Charlton will be affected by a short delay.
    No but our season will be.

    Less time to get new players in

    The 5 players Bowyer has lined up may ho elsewhere 

    Matthews may go elsewhere.



    Seriously what is the point in holding up the sale, all its gonna do is mess up our season 
    This, this week was massive regarding the squad and it’s gone now, Bowyer still toying between which under 17 will make the bench at crewe, this week injunction could set us back a season or two, you might think I’m being dramatic, but we now start the season with our worst squad for years.
    It really doesn't

    There will still be 40 games to go by the time the window closes. And then there's the January window

    We couldn't fill our bench when we played Sunderland 2 years ago, but brought in several players after the season started


    Only difference between this year and that is the fact we had quite a balanced squad to put out against Sunderland

    This time we're badly short in Defence, you'd hope that against Crewe, Doncaster, Lincoln the team should be good enough

    At least its not as tough a start as it was facing Sunderland, Peterborough, Shrewsbury
    I assume Bowyer will bring in a defender this week, whether a RB or CB

    I agree the squad is currently very weak in defence, but when you consider we have Williams, Washington, Gilbey and Aneke to add to yesterday's side, that's a reasonable base to play Crewe 
  • BR7_addick
    BR7_addick Posts: 10,210
    The judge has effectively said that he doesn't believe Sandgaard's interest in buying Charlton will be affected by a short delay.
    No but our season will be.

    Less time to get new players in

    The 5 players Bowyer has lined up may ho elsewhere 

    Matthews may go elsewhere.



    Seriously what is the point in holding up the sale, all its gonna do is mess up our season 
    This, this week was massive regarding the squad and it’s gone now, Bowyer still toying between which under 17 will make the bench at crewe, this week injunction could set us back a season or two, you might think I’m being dramatic, but we now start the season with our worst squad for years.
    It really doesn't

    There will still be 40 games to go by the time the window closes. And then there's the January window

    We couldn't fill our bench when we played Sunderland 2 years ago, but brought in several players after the season started


    Let’s take the Rose tints off for a sec, what bowyer did 18/19 was borderline miraculous.  And he didn’t have a transfer embargo.

    This was the week to get the squad ready (remember we had 5/6 waiting to be confirmed) and now it will not be ready, simple as that. 
    Of course it's not good news, but a delay of a few days is annoying rather than a catastrophe. It's not as the takeover was likely to happen before Friday at the earliest
    I’m probably 90% pissed off 10% logic right now admittedly but I think it’s still a dent to 20/21, come end of the season we might be a few points off, after losing the first two, then I guess we could point to it.
  • The Euphoria from yesterday's decision has ebbed away from me, At least my good friend Jose Cuervo has promised to be by my side to get me through this next week.
  • Valley11 said:
    What does this mean for the TS deal? 
    It will be next Friday instead of this Friday. 
  • dickad1
    dickad1 Posts: 260
    edited September 2020
    Vfrf said:
    Chaisty went from arguing yesterday that there was no evidence of an imminent sale of #CAFC so no detriment from an injunction to pointing to media reports today that a sale was imminent meaning his client’s right to apply to appeal needed protection.
    This is what makes me fear for the appeal being successful.
    But doesn't the appeal have to be on the narrow matter of yesterday's judgement, not the wider points? So, whether, on balance, waiting until what we now know to be the end of November damages the club more than a sale between now and then would Elliott. 

    What I'm not clear about is what happens in the next week, and whether an appeal can and will be heard in that time and what happens if it isn't. 

    Today's injunction was given, while yesterday's wasn't, because of the very constrained time period it will be in operation. 
  • Valley11 said:
    Valley11 said:
    What does this mean for the TS deal? 
    Nobody can possibly answer that.
    As in; can he buy the club at 4:01 next weds?
    No 


    4:00:01
  • ct_addick
    ct_addick Posts: 4,333
    Will wait for LK to issue a statement 
  • Chaisty went from arguing yesterday that there was no evidence of an imminent sale of #CAFC so no detriment from an injunction to pointing to media reports today that a sale was imminent meaning his client’s right to apply to appeal needed protection.
    Not to mention the legal precedent he relied was, as pointed out, pertaining to completely different Court and proceedings.
    Oh never mind, it's Judge Mental, any fecking precedent will do.
    I'm beyond apoplexy
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  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    cafcfan said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    So, if I have this right.

    PE wanted to stop the sale of the club so wants an injunction.

    Injunction denied.

    PE appeals that decision. 

    Appeal denied.

    Appeals the appeal to the Court of Appeal. 

    Granted.

    Why the feck not just go straight to the top in the first place.

    I hasten to add I don't think the Court of Appeal is the furthest they can go. Royal Court of Justice ??
    The RCJ is the building where the Court of Appeal is based. 
    House of Lords, it won't get in front of the ECJ in time......

    Sorry that was in answer to @golfaddick
    Yep, thought there was another strand to it all. Got an O level in Economic & Public Affairs 37 years ago but couldnt remember what was next after COA. 
    Nope.  The Supreme Court replaced the House of Lords as the final arbiters in 2009.
    What about the ECJ or its replacement? 
  • Bedsaddick
    Bedsaddick Posts: 24,733
    Valley11 said:
    What does this mean for the TS deal? 
    It will be next Friday instead of this Friday. 
    unless...
  • TS gives ESi more then £550,000
    What should Nimmer get?.
  • It might be worth us noting the following- over 1.5million civil cases were heard in 2011, only 1269 cases were filed in the Court of Appeal (Civil, not family or criminal) 

    It is possible but far from certain that the appeal will be granted. 
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,623
    dickad1 said:
    Vfrf said:
    Chaisty went from arguing yesterday that there was no evidence of an imminent sale of #CAFC so no detriment from an injunction to pointing to media reports today that a sale was imminent meaning his client’s right to apply to appeal needed protection.
    This is what makes me fear for the appeal being successful.
    But doesn't the appeal have to be on the narrow matter of yesterday's judgement, not the wider points? So, whether, on balance, waiting until what we now know to be the end of November damages the club more than a sale between now and then would Elliott. 

    What I'm not clear about is what happens in the next week, and whether an appeal can and will be heard in that time and what happens if it isn't. 

    Today's injunction was given, while yesterday's wasn't, because of the very constrained time period it will be in operation. 
    The appeal wont be heard next week......its if they have the RIGHT to an appeal. If the appeal judge thinks they do then he/she will set a date for an appeal.

    I think that's right.
  • Dizzle
    Dizzle Posts: 5,190
    What happens if the EFL reject Elliott and the rest of ESI2 under the OADT in the next 7 days? 
  • I am sorry but this guy annoys the hell out of me.

    You can send him an email about it.
  • I will find the right thread!!

    They have to get BOTH leave to appeal AND the decision not to grant the longer injunction overturned (or in practice the seven day injunction extended) or #cafc can be sold. That still reduces Lee Bowyer’s transfer headroom before September 12th.
  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,763
    I will find the right thread!!

    They have to get BOTH leave to appeal AND the decision not to grant the longer injunction overturned (or in practice the seven day injunction extended) or #cafc can be sold. That still reduces Lee Bowyer’s transfer headroom before September 12th.
    Lol I did the exact same thing
  • Clarky
    Clarky Posts: 582
    The judge has given them seven days  to seek permission from the Court of Appeal to allow them to lodge an appeal. This will be one appeal judge hearing from a QC that another judge has misled himself to sufficiently misinterpret the situation in the decision he came to.  Most of these fail since it is unusual  for  the appeal court judge to try and second guess the  original judge. However, Judge Pearce did not give them the right to appeal to himself  which means he has stood by his decision but has given Chaisty a chance to appeal to seek the right to appeal from another judge, but this must be heard within the seven days. Judge Pearce gave as part of his reasoning  yesterday that the club itself was at risk if he granted their injuction. This will be noted by the appeal court jusge deciding whether to give Lex Dominus  the right to appeal to the Court of Appeal (three judges sitting in several months time). However I think it may be possible for the appeal court judge to grant them right to an appeal but not extend the injunction on the grounds of the damage that would likely cause.

    My guess is that  this is buying time for his client to try and secure a payment from Sandgaaed to go away. Unintentional legalised blackmail?
    Thank you for this. So the Court of Appeal has to consider this within 7 days, any longer and ESI 1 can sell. Even if they do consider within 7 days they are unlikely to grant the appeal, so  ESI 1 can sell. And even if they do grant leave to appeal to the Court of Appeal they might not extend the temporary injunction so ES1 1 could sell. So the odds are still in our favour. 
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  • I will find the right thread!!

    They have to get BOTH leave to appeal AND the decision not to grant the longer injunction overturned (or in practice the seven day injunction extended) or #cafc can be sold. That still reduces Lee Bowyer’s transfer headroom before September 12th.
    Lol I did the exact same thing
    I think the top thread kept changing so kept selecting the wrong one
  • All this legal bollocks really is in a different world.
    It just seems nonsensical to me that someone can be denied an injunction, have the appeal for that injunction denied, but then use the letter of the law to force the judge to approve an appeal at the Court of Appeals. 
  • ross1
    ross1 Posts: 50,974
    Hearing is brought to a close by Judge Pearce.
    Thanks for the updates, though it was difficult to follow them inbetween all the speculation.
    😉
    I'll put them in bold next time as well - Might help a bit more :)
    Just putting them in italics helped as I realised you were relaying information and not just making a comment
  • Dizzle said:
    What happens if the EFL reject Elliott and the rest of ESI2 under the OADT in the next 7 days? 
    I seem to recall the EFL saying that upon rejection of appeal; CF and PE had fourteen days to remove themselves from the club

    I guess they could argue that they should have the right to sell the club in that instance as they'll continue to claim that they own it
  • limeygent
    limeygent Posts: 3,217
    edited September 2020
    There's this whole separate world going on called the legal profession, these people making fortunes out of others' misery, and they create absolutely nothing for the real world. Hate lawyers.
  • dickad1
    dickad1 Posts: 260
    dickad1 said:
    Vfrf said:
    Chaisty went from arguing yesterday that there was no evidence of an imminent sale of #CAFC so no detriment from an injunction to pointing to media reports today that a sale was imminent meaning his client’s right to apply to appeal needed protection.
    This is what makes me fear for the appeal being successful.
    But doesn't the appeal have to be on the narrow matter of yesterday's judgement, not the wider points? So, whether, on balance, waiting until what we now know to be the end of November damages the club more than a sale between now and then would Elliott. 

    What I'm not clear about is what happens in the next week, and whether an appeal can and will be heard in that time and what happens if it isn't. 

    Today's injunction was given, while yesterday's wasn't, because of the very constrained time period it will be in operation. 
    The appeal wont be heard next week......its if they have the RIGHT to an appeal. If the appeal judge thinks they do then he/she will set a date for an appeal.

    I think that's right.
    So, on that basis all they have achieved is to delay things by a week?  They get the appeal, but the shares are sold before it is heard. 

    If they keep varying the injunction then effectively they have got what they didn't get yesterday in small increments. 

    Presumably there are some legal experts on here who can take us through the potential scenarios. 
  • blackpool72
    blackpool72 Posts: 23,668
    Clarky said:
    The judge has given them seven days  to seek permission from the Court of Appeal to allow them to lodge an appeal. This will be one appeal judge hearing from a QC that another judge has misled himself to sufficiently misinterpret the situation in the decision he came to.  Most of these fail since it is unusual  for  the appeal court judge to try and second guess the  original judge. However, Judge Pearce did not give them the right to appeal to himself  which means he has stood by his decision but has given Chaisty a chance to appeal to seek the right to appeal from another judge, but this must be heard within the seven days. Judge Pearce gave as part of his reasoning  yesterday that the club itself was at risk if he granted their injuction. This will be noted by the appeal court jusge deciding whether to give Lex Dominus  the right to appeal to the Court of Appeal (three judges sitting in several months time). However I think it may be possible for the appeal court judge to grant them right to an appeal but not extend the injunction on the grounds of the damage that would likely cause.

    My guess is that  this is buying time for his client to try and secure a payment from Sandgaaed to go away. Unintentional legalised blackmail?
    Thank you for this. So the Court of Appeal has to consider this within 7 days, any longer and ESI 1 can sell. Even if they do consider within 7 days they are unlikely to grant the appeal, so  ESI 1 can sell. And even if they do grant leave to appeal to the Court of Appeal they might not extend the temporary injunction so ES1 1 could sell. So the odds are still in our favour. 
    That is the most optomistic post I have ever seen. 

    Please God you are correct 
  • ross1 said:
    Hearing is brought to a close by Judge Pearce.
    Thanks for the updates, though it was difficult to follow them inbetween all the speculation.
    😉
    I'll put them in bold next time as well - Might help a bit more :)
    Just putting them in italics helped as I realised you were relaying information and not just making a comment
    I think @Miserableoldgit was right though, Cawley and AB were tweeting so infrequently that when an italics post got made it was easy to miss it
  • Cafc43v3r said:
    cafcfan said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    So, if I have this right.

    PE wanted to stop the sale of the club so wants an injunction.

    Injunction denied.

    PE appeals that decision. 

    Appeal denied.

    Appeals the appeal to the Court of Appeal. 

    Granted.

    Why the feck not just go straight to the top in the first place.

    I hasten to add I don't think the Court of Appeal is the furthest they can go. Royal Court of Justice ??
    The RCJ is the building where the Court of Appeal is based. 
    House of Lords, it won't get in front of the ECJ in time......

    Sorry that was in answer to @golfaddick
    Yep, thought there was another strand to it all. Got an O level in Economic & Public Affairs 37 years ago but couldnt remember what was next after COA. 
    Nope.  The Supreme Court replaced the House of Lords as the final arbiters in 2009.
    What about the ECJ or its replacement? 
    This will still be the UK Supreme Court. With the exception of Human Rights and the associated ECHR, the SC is the highest court in Britain.
  • Cafc43v3r said:
    cafcfan said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    So, if I have this right.

    PE wanted to stop the sale of the club so wants an injunction.

    Injunction denied.

    PE appeals that decision. 

    Appeal denied.

    Appeals the appeal to the Court of Appeal. 

    Granted.

    Why the feck not just go straight to the top in the first place.

    I hasten to add I don't think the Court of Appeal is the furthest they can go. Royal Court of Justice ??
    The RCJ is the building where the Court of Appeal is based. 
    House of Lords, it won't get in front of the ECJ in time......

    Sorry that was in answer to @golfaddick
    Yep, thought there was another strand to it all. Got an O level in Economic & Public Affairs 37 years ago but couldnt remember what was next after COA. 
    Nope.  The Supreme Court replaced the House of Lords as the final arbiters in 2009.
    What about the ECJ or its replacement? 
    This will still be the UK Supreme Court. With the exception of Human Rights and the associated ECHR, the SC is the highest court in Britain.
    Surely ECHR has no jurisdiction here post Brexit?
This discussion has been closed.