I've been mugging up on mRNA vaccines, and consider them pretty safe. It will have an mRNA strand that will code for a particular protein, in particular a protein which is present on covid and which will be an antigen and elicit an immune response. The mRNA will quote possibly be delivered in a liposome which is a small casing of lipid (fat). There may also be an adjuvant to stimulate a response. These have been studied for ages. This will be a lot safer than an attentuated live virus, and what you are injecting is very specific.
Btw for those wondering the mRNA will be derived from bacteria.
I’m in the definite camp, being in the high-risk group (58, type 2 diabetes and (slightly) overweight)! However, even then I think it will be quite a while before the vaccine becomes available to us! Doctors, nurses and healthcare workers first, the politicians will make sure they are bellying up at the front of the trough and then the other more high-risk groups (the elderly and vulnerable,etc.)
I don’t understand the “will wait til I know it’s safe” comments. Do people who say things like this not understand how many steps and trials a vaccine (let alone this one) has to go through before it’s even considered ready to be administered?
I don’t understand the “will wait til I know it’s safe” comments. Do people who say things like this not understand how many steps and trials a vaccine (let alone this one) has to go through before it’s even considered ready to be administered?
Thats great, but what are the medium to long term sode effects? No amount of 6 month trials can predict that.
What side effects are you expecting? How would these develop? I ask as one of the problems is that antibodies kill the new ‘pretend’ cells quite quickly and before the body has produced sufficient antibodies to protect, hence the booster is required. The ‘pretend’ cells are just that and do not have any abilities other than to play chemical ‘tag’ with other cells and get them to pretend to be the virus as well.
The new pretend cells are artificial and cannot ‘be killed’ . There is a danger of the body always being in an alert mode as these artificial substances can never really be removed by our antibodies and continue to put our immune systems under stress. The symptoms of diseases play a role in expressing and removing viruses. We all know people who have had shit reactions to anti flu jabs. Having said that the Covid virus is deadly and long living in itself and in balance I feel I would take the vaccine, A lot of over simplification of how vaccines work are put about in an effort to make it all sound easy and simple to the public. It is not, there were strong intelligent arguments against multi vaccines before right wing groups created an anti vax bandwagon. Many good science based arguments have been written against MMR and been suppressed. There is so much money in pharmaceuticals and like any huge global economy it does its best to manipulate science reports and the so called facts in it’s favour , the same as fossil fuel companies and their anti climate change propaganda.
I don’t understand the “will wait til I know it’s safe” comments. Do people who say things like this not understand how many steps and trials a vaccine (let alone this one) has to go through before it’s even considered ready to be administered?
I don’t understand the “will wait til I know it’s safe” comments. Do people who say things like this not understand how many steps and trials a vaccine (let alone this one) has to go through before it’s even considered ready to be administered?
Thats great, but what are the medium to long term sode effects? No amount of 6 month trials can predict that.
What side effects are you expecting? How would these develop? I ask as one of the problems is that antibodies kill the new ‘pretend’ cells quite quickly and before the body has produced sufficient antibodies to protect, hence the booster is required. The ‘pretend’ cells are just that and do not have any abilities other than to play chemical ‘tag’ with other cells and get them to pretend to be the virus as well.
That’s all right then. Redrobo says all is good.
I suspect you don’t work in producing new medication so all you have is an opinion. Based on what you’ve read, but still just an opinion. You don’t know anything about the long term effects but are willing to trash anyone else who has their own other opinion about this. Big pharma is not really something that has a track record that inspires confidence in me.
Heard of thalidomide?
You OK?
I was asking a question as I don’t know, hence the question marks.
I don’t understand the “will wait til I know it’s safe” comments. Do people who say things like this not understand how many steps and trials a vaccine (let alone this one) has to go through before it’s even considered ready to be administered?
I don’t understand the “will wait til I know it’s safe” comments. Do people who say things like this not understand how many steps and trials a vaccine (let alone this one) has to go through before it’s even considered ready to be administered?
Thats great, but what are the medium to long term sode effects? No amount of 6 month trials can predict that.
What side effects are you expecting? How would these develop? I ask as one of the problems is that antibodies kill the new ‘pretend’ cells quite quickly and before the body has produced sufficient antibodies to protect, hence the booster is required. The ‘pretend’ cells are just that and do not have any abilities other than to play chemical ‘tag’ with other cells and get them to pretend to be the virus as well.
That’s all right then. Redrobo says all is good.
I suspect you don’t work in producing new medication so all you have is an opinion. Based on what you’ve read, but still just an opinion. You don’t know anything about the long term effects but are willing to trash anyone else who has their own other opinion about this. Big pharma is not really something that has a track record that inspires confidence in me.
Heard of thalidomide?
How did he “trash” you? He asked a pretty reasonable question.
"Many good science based arguments have been written against MMR and been suppressed."
Just nonsense.
One highly flawed study with only 10 people from a discredited doctor caused the MMR panic.
I’m not sure of the relevance of that. Of course no one wants a panic but long term effects of any of these vaccines can’t be assessed without long term trials. There haven’t been many studies yet, let alone highly flawed ones.
I really hope these vaccines are the ones to put this virus to bed and will happily be vaccinated once they have been through the accepted procedures. But the huge impetus to get something in place by teatime today isn’t conducive to proper testing and procedures being done.
I don’t understand the “will wait til I know it’s safe” comments. Do people who say things like this not understand how many steps and trials a vaccine (let alone this one) has to go through before it’s even considered ready to be administered?
I don’t understand the “will wait til I know it’s safe” comments. Do people who say things like this not understand how many steps and trials a vaccine (let alone this one) has to go through before it’s even considered ready to be administered?
Thats great, but what are the medium to long term sode effects? No amount of 6 month trials can predict that.
What side effects are you expecting? How would these develop? I ask as one of the problems is that antibodies kill the new ‘pretend’ cells quite quickly and before the body has produced sufficient antibodies to protect, hence the booster is required. The ‘pretend’ cells are just that and do not have any abilities other than to play chemical ‘tag’ with other cells and get them to pretend to be the virus as well.
The new pretend cells are artificial and cannot ‘be killed’ . There is a danger of the body always being in an alert mode as these artificial substances can never really be removed by our antibodies and continue to put our immune systems under stress. The symptoms of diseases play a role in expressing and removing viruses. We all know people who have had shit reactions to anti flu jabs. Having said that the Covid virus is deadly and long living in itself and in balance I feel I would take the vaccine, A lot of over simplification of how vaccines work are put about in an effort to make it all sound easy and simple to the public. It is not, there were strong intelligent arguments against multi vaccines before right wing groups created an anti vax bandwagon. Many good science based arguments have been written against MMR and been suppressed. There is so much money in pharmaceuticals and like any huge global economy it does its best to manipulate science reports and the so called facts in it’s favour , the same as fossil fuel companies and their anti climate change propaganda.
Literally not one 'good science argument' has ever been put forward to support the fakes original study, which was, in fact - in a clear case of conflict of interest - financially supported by one of the pharmaceutical companies you mentioned.
I've been mugging up on mRNA vaccines, and consider them pretty safe. It will have an mRNA strand that will code for a particular protein, in particular a protein which is present on covid and which will be an antigen and elicit an immune response. The mRNA will quote possibly be delivered in a liposome which is a small casing of lipid (fat). There may also be an adjuvant to stimulate a response. These have been studied for ages. This will be a lot safer than an attenuated live virus, and what you are injecting is very specific.
Btw for those wondering the mRNA will be derived from bacteria.
Hmm, reading some more on this and some of the front runners use an attenuated cold virus as the vector (mRNA is one thing... Getting it where you want it is the real story) and that has its own challenges. Hopefully, there will be some clarity on the science behind the vaccine and published trials etc
I don’t understand the “will wait til I know it’s safe” comments. Do people who say things like this not understand how many steps and trials a vaccine (let alone this one) has to go through before it’s even considered ready to be administered?
I don’t understand the “will wait til I know it’s safe” comments. Do people who say things like this not understand how many steps and trials a vaccine (let alone this one) has to go through before it’s even considered ready to be administered?
Thats great, but what are the medium to long term sode effects? No amount of 6 month trials can predict that.
What side effects are you expecting? How would these develop? I ask as one of the problems is that antibodies kill the new ‘pretend’ cells quite quickly and before the body has produced sufficient antibodies to protect, hence the booster is required. The ‘pretend’ cells are just that and do not have any abilities other than to play chemical ‘tag’ with other cells and get them to pretend to be the virus as well.
The new pretend cells are artificial and cannot ‘be killed’ . There is a danger of the body always being in an alert mode as these artificial substances can never really be removed by our antibodies and continue to put our immune systems under stress. The symptoms of diseases play a role in expressing and removing viruses. We all know people who have had shit reactions to anti flu jabs. Having said that the Covid virus is deadly and long living in itself and in balance I feel I would take the vaccine, A lot of over simplification of how vaccines work are put about in an effort to make it all sound easy and simple to the public. It is not, there were strong intelligent arguments against multi vaccines before right wing groups created an anti vax bandwagon. Many good science based arguments have been written against MMR and been suppressed. There is so much money in pharmaceuticals and like any huge global economy it does its best to manipulate science reports and the so called facts in it’s favour , the same as fossil fuel companies and their anti climate change propaganda.
I'm also verging on nonsense... I haven't got my head fully round the science yet before giving it big I know it all. Proper dunning Kruger territory. For those interested though, here's the a vaccine tracker which explains which vaccines are in development, what stage they are and what mechanism they are using:
I don’t understand the “will wait til I know it’s safe” comments. Do people who say things like this not understand how many steps and trials a vaccine (let alone this one) has to go through before it’s even considered ready to be administered?
I don’t understand the “will wait til I know it’s safe” comments. Do people who say things like this not understand how many steps and trials a vaccine (let alone this one) has to go through before it’s even considered ready to be administered?
Thats great, but what are the medium to long term sode effects? No amount of 6 month trials can predict that.
What side effects are you expecting? How would these develop? I ask as one of the problems is that antibodies kill the new ‘pretend’ cells quite quickly and before the body has produced sufficient antibodies to protect, hence the booster is required. The ‘pretend’ cells are just that and do not have any abilities other than to play chemical ‘tag’ with other cells and get them to pretend to be the virus as well.
The new pretend cells are artificial and cannot ‘be killed’ .
"Many good science based arguments have been written against MMR and been suppressed."
Just nonsense.
One highly flawed study with only 10 people from a discredited doctor caused the MMR panic.
I’m not sure of the relevance of that. Of course no one wants a panic but long term effects of any of these vaccines can’t be assessed without long term trials. There haven’t been many studies yet, let alone highly flawed ones.
I really hope these vaccines are the ones to put this virus to bed and will happily be vaccinated once they have been through the accepted procedures. But the huge impetus to get something in place by teatime today isn’t conducive to proper testing and procedures being done.
It's relevant to debunk the antivax MMR myth that was being touted.
For obvious reasons I have to get a bit more advice before I make a decision. I imagine most of those who have had a bad and lengthy experience with Covid will also be somewhat apprehensive. If I get recommended to have one and given the all clear I will go ahead........but I would be lying if I said I wouldn’t be somewhat nervous.
I don’t understand the “will wait til I know it’s safe” comments. Do people who say things like this not understand how many steps and trials a vaccine (let alone this one) has to go through before it’s even considered ready to be administered?
I don’t understand the “will wait til I know it’s safe” comments. Do people who say things like this not understand how many steps and trials a vaccine (let alone this one) has to go through before it’s even considered ready to be administered?
Thats great, but what are the medium to long term sode effects? No amount of 6 month trials can predict that.
What side effects are you expecting? How would these develop? I ask as one of the problems is that antibodies kill the new ‘pretend’ cells quite quickly and before the body has produced sufficient antibodies to protect, hence the booster is required. The ‘pretend’ cells are just that and do not have any abilities other than to play chemical ‘tag’ with other cells and get them to pretend to be the virus as well.
The new pretend cells are artificial and cannot ‘be killed’ .
What?
If the cells cannot be killed, why would one need a booster?
For obvious reasons I have to get a bit more advice before I make a decision. I imagine most of those who have had a bad and lengthy experience with Covid will also be somewhat apprehensive. If I get recommended to have one and given the all clear I will go ahead........but I would be lying if I said I wouldn’t be somewhat nervous.
Completely understand your particular concerns. You speak to your doctor who no doubt will advise you.
I voted Very Unlikely purely because I am at the bottom of the list of importance so fully expect them to have run out and decided to not bother by the time they get around to my group!
What's actually in the vaccine? Any animal substances?
My concern too @thewolfboy From what I’ve read it appears that due to the urgency of the situation testing on animals is being skipped. Can’t seem to find any info regards animal derivatives in the vaccine itself. This article from PETA gives more detail.
Animal testing is part of pre-clinical development and absolutely has to be done before phase one of clinical trials (small number of people). Animal testing has been done for all covid-19 vaccines being developed, otherwise they would not be able to advance to human testing.
In my experience PETA mean well but play pretty fast and loose with the truth if it supports the message they're trying to put across.
Pork gelatin and egg protein and the only animal derivatives used in vaccines that I know of but we probably won't know for the Pfizer one for a while due to the risk of imitation.
Why would anyone care if there were animal derivatives in a vaccine if it's effective and saves lives?
Would Jehova’s Witnesses refrain from having a vaccine, not sure if that (among a few other weird edicts), is part of their lunacy? Realise this question is not particularly relevant to the discussion but I am interested in knowing their take on vaccines in general.
"Many good science based arguments have been written against MMR and been suppressed."
Just nonsense.
One highly flawed study with only 10 people from a discredited doctor caused the MMR panic.
I’m not sure of the relevance of that. Of course no one wants a panic but long term effects of any of these vaccines can’t be assessed without long term trials. There haven’t been many studies yet, let alone highly flawed ones.
I really hope these vaccines are the ones to put this virus to bed and will happily be vaccinated once they have been through the accepted procedures. But the huge impetus to get something in place by teatime today isn’t conducive to proper testing and procedures being done.
It's relevant to debunk the antivax MMR myth that was being touted.
I don’t understand the “will wait til I know it’s safe” comments. Do people who say things like this not understand how many steps and trials a vaccine (let alone this one) has to go through before it’s even considered ready to be administered?
I don’t understand the “will wait til I know it’s safe” comments. Do people who say things like this not understand how many steps and trials a vaccine (let alone this one) has to go through before it’s even considered ready to be administered?
Thats great, but what are the medium to long term sode effects? No amount of 6 month trials can predict that.
What side effects are you expecting? How would these develop? I ask as one of the problems is that antibodies kill the new ‘pretend’ cells quite quickly and before the body has produced sufficient antibodies to protect, hence the booster is required. The ‘pretend’ cells are just that and do not have any abilities other than to play chemical ‘tag’ with other cells and get them to pretend to be the virus as well.
The new pretend cells are artificial and cannot ‘be killed’ .
What?
If the cells cannot be killed, why would one need a booster?
I'm questioning that sentence. The idea that we are creating artificial cells that cannot be killed it nonsense and I'm interested in what it was based on
I don’t understand the “will wait til I know it’s safe” comments. Do people who say things like this not understand how many steps and trials a vaccine (let alone this one) has to go through before it’s even considered ready to be administered?
I don’t understand the “will wait til I know it’s safe” comments. Do people who say things like this not understand how many steps and trials a vaccine (let alone this one) has to go through before it’s even considered ready to be administered?
Thats great, but what are the medium to long term sode effects? No amount of 6 month trials can predict that.
What side effects are you expecting? How would these develop? I ask as one of the problems is that antibodies kill the new ‘pretend’ cells quite quickly and before the body has produced sufficient antibodies to protect, hence the booster is required. The ‘pretend’ cells are just that and do not have any abilities other than to play chemical ‘tag’ with other cells and get them to pretend to be the virus as well.
The new pretend cells are artificial and cannot ‘be killed’ .
What?
I was just stating the obvious in reply to the post I quoted, if something is not alive in the first place it cannot ‘be killed’.
For obvious reasons I have to get a bit more advice before I make a decision. I imagine most of those who have had a bad and lengthy experience with Covid will also be somewhat apprehensive. If I get recommended to have one and given the all clear I will go ahead........but I would be lying if I said I wouldn’t be somewhat nervous.
Completely understand your particular concerns. You speak to your doctor who no doubt will advise you.
I will attempt to get the advice of someone far better qualified than my GP............as excellent as he is. I’m hoping he will ask the question for me through his contacts.
I don’t understand the “will wait til I know it’s safe” comments. Do people who say things like this not understand how many steps and trials a vaccine (let alone this one) has to go through before it’s even considered ready to be administered?
I don’t understand the “will wait til I know it’s safe” comments. Do people who say things like this not understand how many steps and trials a vaccine (let alone this one) has to go through before it’s even considered ready to be administered?
Thats great, but what are the medium to long term sode effects? No amount of 6 month trials can predict that.
What side effects are you expecting? How would these develop? I ask as one of the problems is that antibodies kill the new ‘pretend’ cells quite quickly and before the body has produced sufficient antibodies to protect, hence the booster is required. The ‘pretend’ cells are just that and do not have any abilities other than to play chemical ‘tag’ with other cells and get them to pretend to be the virus as well.
The new pretend cells are artificial and cannot ‘be killed’ .
What?
If the cells cannot be killed, why would one need a booster?
I'm questioning that sentence. The idea that we are creating artificial cells that cannot be killed it nonsense and I'm interested in what it was based on
I am agreeing with you!
The whole point is that the cells will be killed. If they are not, nor will the real virus if it arrives. The evidence we have that it does kill them is that a booster is required.
I'll take it, like I take all the other meds I take on a daily basis, but I definitely don't lump people that are concerned about this particular vaccine into the flat earth brigade.
I'll take it, like I take all the other meds I take on a daily basis, but I definitely don't lump people that are concerned about this particular vaccine into the flat earth brigade.
The biggest advance in medicine in terms of lives saved in the last two hundred years have been vaccines - millions of deaths have been avoided. My concern is the idiocy and selfishness of a lot of anti-vaxxers who don't even have any evidence to base their views on.
I'm sure plenty of people have concerns but there is information out there. If you choose to source your info on anecdotes from Facebook you won't get very far.
Comments
Btw for those wondering the mRNA will be derived from bacteria.
However, even then I think it will be quite a while before the vaccine becomes available to us! Doctors, nurses and healthcare workers first, the politicians will make sure they are bellying up at the front of the trough and then the other more high-risk groups (the elderly and vulnerable,etc.)
Unfortunately I am very aware of thalidomide.
Just nonsense.
One highly flawed study with only 10 people from a discredited doctor caused the MMR panic.
I really hope these vaccines are the ones to put this virus to bed and will happily be vaccinated once they have been through the accepted procedures. But the huge impetus to get something in place by teatime today isn’t conducive to proper testing and procedures being done.
https://www.raps.org/news-and-articles/news-articles/2020/3/covid-19-vaccine-tracker
I imagine most of those who have had a bad and lengthy experience with Covid will also be somewhat apprehensive.
If I get recommended to have one and given the all clear I will go ahead........but I would be lying if I said I wouldn’t be somewhat nervous.
Realise this question is not particularly relevant to the discussion but I am interested in knowing their take on vaccines in general.
I’m hoping he will ask the question for me through his contacts.
The whole point is that the cells will be killed. If they are not, nor will the real virus if it arrives. The evidence we have that it does kill them is that a booster is required.
I'm sure plenty of people have concerns but there is information out there. If you choose to source your info on anecdotes from Facebook you won't get very far.