POST-MATCH THREAD: Charlton v Accrington | Fri 8 Jan 2021

Simonsen

ForeverAddickted said:

PeanutsMolloy said:

Croydon said:

PeanutsMolloy said:

DOUCHER said:

he's chucked williams and maddison under the bus again but they are the solution, not the problem 

If Williams and Maddison are the answer, we really are screwed.
Thankfully, they're obviously not, though we'll need to be realistic and lower expectations until Inniss, Famewo, Shinnie and Watson or Pratley return.
Jonnie's only interested in playing for Wales and sadly does an impersonation of a headless chicken when he plays for us these days.
Maddison has become unwelcome at every other club he's played for. He was an option to pursue when we were desperate (last season) but it was a big mistake to go through with him with TS installed. Bow thought he could get through to him. He patently can't and maybe isn't get through-able to.

Did you watch us against Wimbledon? Those 2 ran the show when they came on.

Makes me laugh that Maddison gets slammed for his attitude when Bowyer spend TWO windows chasing him. Surely if there was a problem, and I'm not saying there is, he should have known!

Yeap, and every minute he's played for us.
A great goal that day but that's been his only moment of worth (and it's notable it involved no other team member) he's worn red.
Has to go.

Plymouth was the game he scored in - Wimbledon he came on and changed the game, certainly more than Williams for me

He did then start the next game at Swindon (played 72-mins), put in the good ball that Bogle fluffed and that was it

Maddison started v Wimbledon (got subbed on 84 mins for Purrington). 

Moo

Oops missed the game! Thought it was Saturday. Glad I did! 

cornwalladdick

So looking forward to the match and now totally deflated and wondering what next

very disappointed with maatsen seems to be going down hill with every game, Millar looks promising, JFK tried, can't fault Washington for effort and Deji looked better than Pratley

Roll on the recovery of Famewo and Inniss

golfaddick

charlton_hero said:

Decent interview imo

https://twitter.com/SkyFootball/status/1347671179742613505?s=19.

Watching that again you can't say he was "ranting" or anything was said "in the heat of the moment". It was all very measured & he thought about what he was saying - so any backlash he only has himself to blame.

golfaddick

seth plum said:

Then again we're not safe from relegation yet.

I'm usually seen as a pessimist on here but even I would say that we won't go down this season. We wont go up, and most likely wont get into the play-offs.....but no relegation. Somewhere around 8th to 12th I reckon. 

EveshamAddick

StigThundercock said:

Amos: had little to do 
Gunter: decent 
Oshilaja: inept
Pearce: clumsy weak and slow
Morgan: worked really hard doing much of gilbeys stuff too Noy his fault accy swamped him
Forster-Caskey: industrious tireless but 50% of his dead balls are hopeless 
Gilbey: never realised how tall he is irrelevant when he hides that diligently Better option than Lapslie? 🤪🤯
Maatsen: hard working and much better in his natural position 
Millar: good start final ball needs refinement 
Smyth: moments of promise 
Washington: no service for 45 minutes and then hooked Baffling 🤯
Aneke: Bundled thru a few tackles but his movement is dismal
Williams: pathetic unforgivable 
Madison: looked disinterested 
Schwartz: cameo too brief
Referee: inconsistency led to inevitable niggly deterioration and late flurry of cards

Stig, this is also the game I saw.

Rudders22

I was going to comment last night but was too frustrated and and had a few beers by then. Part of me what thought with comments like that Bowyer has to go. I didn't see the whole game, only the 2nd half and read previous comments on previous games.

I don't agree with getting rid of Bowyer. 

They guy has stuck with us through the bad times. First time he got us to the play offs from nowhere. 2nd season after not being able to field a full bench away at Sunderland he got us promoted via the play offs.  Last year if we had a squad and no injuries to key players, we had a good chance of staying up then fell away and we know wee were under an embargo.

This season we nearly didn't have a club.  We got 2 players in (and that was only after negotiation with the EFL) and were under financial constraints). We were screwed.

We had to get players in at the last minute, just to fill a team.
We are about to lose one of our better players in Doughty. 

All of our first choice defenders are out injured? 2 long term.  Some of these are loans and Maddison was a gamble. 

When we started I was happy to have a football team. I was happy to finish mid table. 
Then we had that 9 game unbeaten run (with those defenders that are out injured)  That raised our expectations. 

Whatever happens the team needs a complete rebuild. It takes time. 

2121

So frustrating  losing all our youth players, gues millar will cover for this season 

EveshamAddick

charlton_hero said:

Decent interview imo

https://twitter.com/SkyFootball/status/1347671179742613505?s=19

Good interview, calm, measured, LB brutally honest about our shortcomings. As a manager you have no control once the players get on the pitch.

Several things have struck me over recent games. When we get a throw in, no one ever seems to want the ball. 

And other teams we play in defensive situations it’s safety first, put the ball out. Don’t try to play it out - that’s what we keep doing, and we keep getting caught out.

Accrington could have had 4 or 5 last night and it wouldn’t have flattered them.

AndyG

The problem here is that we dont have a settled team. Too many changes all the time, too many players out of position. I really believe that there is a split in the camp at the moment. All of the above are down to the management team 100%. 
Yes maybe there were players last night not giving 100% but tbh nor would I if when I get to come on the game is already lost. 
A big part of any managers job is to get the best out of the group of people they manage. That is true in any profession not just football. 
By the way he is behaving LB is demonstrating how poor he is at people management as nobody can ever argue that he is getting anything like the true performance from this group of people.
He needs to look at himself and sort it out or he will be gone absolutely no doubt about that. As a manager he seems happier when we had our backs to the wall, at the moment there should be an air of positivity but he has gone totally dour and negative. 
All this calling people out in public and people defending him saying " well that's just Lee he wears his heart on his sleeve and will always voice his feelings when he thinks people are not giving the shirt 100% " he was pretty quiet when Mouthall had the super duper phone and when Elliottyty posed with him at Sparrows Lane. Maybe he believed they were 100% behind the shirt.

oohaahmortimer

What a predictably depressing result , although the performance wasn’t as bad as we’ve had to suffer recently , FairPlay Accrington.
No Pratley or Watson means no steady Eddie to calm it all down and read the game and put the foot in where necessary, even though we have been pony in this run with them they were missed last night .
It was the best we’ve played recently but still not good enough .
Players have regressed and they’re not playing for the manager .
His man management skills are severely lacking , there is no need to point out the obvious we can all see the bottling and crapness , in these unprecedented times the man management side of the game is prolly more required than usual and Bowyer is not hitting the spot .
Where do we go from here well good luck with that Thomas , I said it’d all end in tears , it feels like it’s gonna begin in tears !
Imo no one could get this group of players to perform as poorly as they currently are , their not running through brick walls for their manager or team mates , something is seriously wrong .
I’d now prefer a change at the top `Cook , Curbs or Chris in that order because I don’t want to chuck this season in the bin .
I also can see the point of Bowyer having earned a chance to see the season out but he’s gonna have to perform miracles to get this group playing for him again .

At least with the ground open my kids had to watch the game , now though they all fuck off to their bedrooms or look at their phones ignoring the shit I’m putting myself through, it’s a bit gutting cos I can feel them losing their interest in us .


At least we’re still 5th
6th
7th
8th
7th now 

0%  Automatic promotion

40% Play offs 

55%7th-12th
5% 13th-20th

killerandflash

Carter said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Have a go in private - best a day or two after - when the player may even agree with you. But to do it immediately after the game in a recorded/televised interview is a massive no no. It is not acceptable at any level. I really can't understand how people can't see how this will not lose you the respect of the players. I really can't.

If Bowyer was digging someone out for missing a chance then I'd be inclined to agree but he isn't and any professional who gets the hump with being pulled up for pussying out of a tackle needs to look closer to home to see the problem and no manager will change that. That is a player problem and I'd be inclined to get rid if the players if they feel he has lost their faith because not doing football fundamentals will ensure they are already playing at the highest level they will. 

Dennis Rommedahl used to wind me up jumping out of tackles but you had to let it go because he was a world level player, same with Jensen who whilst being a total fanny would win us games and unlock sides. A division 3 player doing it, nah 

Bowyer is guilty of being honest and I'm glad he isn't saving bollocking like that for in private because I have no doubt he sets an expectation for his players to leave it all on the pitch, they do that, he backs them 

Maddison at L1 level is surely a better player than Rommedahl was at PL level though. Rommedahl never really fitted in to the PL, whereas Maddison has 5 excellent seasons at Posh to show that in L1 he's highly effective.

Longtimeaddicted

Maxip123 said:

This is my first comment. I believe the players we currently have are the same level that what we would have had if we were still owned by Roland. These players are all frees and loans which means another club doesn’t want them. I wished we had gambled and paid big for young efl players who were outside the salary cap and who can create exciting performances. I see teams like Lincon ripping the league apart with majority kids, we play a defence and old game. Bowyer needs to step up. New owner, new regime, new manager?

Agreed, I think Bowyer would have done a better job with youngsters, but sadly we did our shopping in the last chance saloon. Bugger it, that hindsight thing it’s rarely wrong🤔

RedRyan

I’m actually going to/through Accrington to get married today (Clitheroe) 💒

Obvs nothing to do with the match but thought it was an interesting coincidence!

soapboxsam

We are all emotionally involved with Cafc and because of that we have baggage.

The six game when we were tighter than certain CL members in a pub (you know who you are) seems like ancient history.
With Inniss and Famewo injuries we were caught between how to adapt and Lee Bowyer has been found wanting. You fall out with numerous players and how don't you lose the dressing room ?

Now we can't defend  and the attack is struggling to blend. The midfield are like strangers.

The fact is since the International break we have totally lost our way. The fans are confused with the tactics; the Players being confused with the tactics is the biggest worry.

I feel sorry for Lee with the injuries But...

RedChaser

RedRyan said:

I’m actually going to/through Accrington to get married today (Clitheroe) 💒

Obvs nothing to do with the match but thought it was an interesting coincidence!

It’s not too late to change your mind!..............Best wishes mate, hope it all goes well and may all your troubles be little ones 😉.

GoOnYouHaddocks

Bowyer's decline in decision making is disappointing and a bit worrying. WTF has happened to him?

BenHaimandBikey

Love it when a manager comes out and completely absolves himself of any blame.

Not wanting it, "ducking out of tackles" or being "soft" doesn't account for just how clueless this side looks when we have the ball. When attacking, the structure always looks disjointed, and as if the team is working it out on the fly rather than being given the foundation to control a football match. I didn't see a technically superior side from Acc Stanley yesterday or a team that "wanted it more", but I did see a side with structure and a gameplan to get the best out of their players. 

This team is much worse than last time we were down in L1, but I still think it's a decent league one side. I don't think blaming the player cuts the mustard.

I'd be asking "what can I do better?". If he thinks it's all on the players and there is nothing he can do, maybe we need a change.

paulfox

I’m interested to know from the people who are supporting bowyer through thick and thin, how they have calculated how much credit he has built up and when does it run out?. And when it does, and it will,these same people will want him gone. These people will be using the same reasoning as the support that think time is up now. So based on the same likely conclusion would it be best to try and save this season sooner rather than later?.Surely the players under the bus attitude and absolutely bizarre team selection and tactics are there for all to see. Based upon these FACTS why should he be exempt from criticism?.Based on sentiment he has a job for life😂😂😂.not sure TS is going to be that sentimental, maybe rightly so.

Covered End

cabbles said:

Dire.

no intent, no purpose, no movement, no pace, no guile, no point trying to sugar coat it with any sort of positives because it’s plainly clear that all is not right and we don’t have a clue what to do.

I’m don’t want to see Bowyer sacked, but after the recent run it’s clear he’s a broken man and I don’t think he knows how to fix it.  He’s had to put up with so much crap in the last year or so and its taken its toll.  For whatever reason he’s regressed in terms of sending a team out to win, and we’re playing not to get beat.  

I’m a bit lost as to what to say.  I do think we’ve got a lot of mediocre players who can’t contribute anymore than they are, and that is a factor, but I think something needs to change.  

All is not well and I can’t see anything else than a slide down the table and more unrest if we continue playing the way we are.  Millar looked okay, but he, nor any other individual are going to change it with the way the team play collectively.  Same for Maddison and Williams.  It’s the whole ethos of the team that is wrong.  

I do fear we’ve gone as far as we can go under Bowyer and I say that with a heavy heart.  It’s not about wanting him out, it’s just a feeling that it might be time for both the club and him to part ways.  It just seems like we’re on a downward spiral we can’t get out of 

Exactly, how I see it. 
Last year understandably took it's toll on Bowyer and he's a broken man.
He's making too many changes & abusing too many players.

If it was a normal work situation and I was his boss I'd tell him to take some holiday.
I think he's suffering from work related stress. I've been there, I think I can recognise the signs.

Unfortunately, I don't think that's feasible as a professional football manager.

The only alternative I can see is to replace him. 

If we don't play better & beat Rochdale I think he should be replaced.

I'll always have a special place in my heart for Lee who helped save our club by not walking out. But we have to address the situation and see no other solution, unless there is a massive turn around on Tuesday. 

AndyG

Covered End said:

cabbles said:

Dire.

no intent, no purpose, no movement, no pace, no guile, no point trying to sugar coat it with any sort of positives because it’s plainly clear that all is not right and we don’t have a clue what to do.

I’m don’t want to see Bowyer sacked, but after the recent run it’s clear he’s a broken man and I don’t think he knows how to fix it.  He’s had to put up with so much crap in the last year or so and its taken its toll.  For whatever reason he’s regressed in terms of sending a team out to win, and we’re playing not to get beat.  

I’m a bit lost as to what to say.  I do think we’ve got a lot of mediocre players who can’t contribute anymore than they are, and that is a factor, but I think something needs to change.  

All is not well and I can’t see anything else than a slide down the table and more unrest if we continue playing the way we are.  Millar looked okay, but he, nor any other individual are going to change it with the way the team play collectively.  Same for Maddison and Williams.  It’s the whole ethos of the team that is wrong.  

I do fear we’ve gone as far as we can go under Bowyer and I say that with a heavy heart.  It’s not about wanting him out, it’s just a feeling that it might be time for both the club and him to part ways.  It just seems like we’re on a downward spiral we can’t get out of 

Exactly, how I see it. 
Last year understandably took it's toll on Bowyer and he's a broken man.
He's making too many changes & abusing too many players.

If it was a normal work situation and I was his boss I'd tell him to take some holiday.
I think he's suffering from work related stress. I've been there, I think I can recognise the signs.

Unfortunately, I don't think that's feasible as a professional football manager.

The only alternative I can see is to replace him. 

If we don't play better & beat Rochdale I think he should be replaced.

I'll always have a special place in my heart for Lee who helped save our club by not walking out. But we have to address the situation and see no other solution, unless there is a massive turn around on Tuesday. 

I agree with most of what your saying totally apart from the saving the club by not walking out. It was mostly the fans that saved this club by the actions they took when faced with what can only be described as crooks and conman. I dont remember LB quite so verbose and calling them out when they were ripping the club off !

Bailey

To answer Paulfox. I think that certain players are not putting their all into the games and one of those players Bowyer didn't want to resign and the other was a gamble. In terms of last night's performance, we actually played well in the first half and but for Pearce making that calamity would have come in all square. What was noticable was when we brought Williams and Maddison on we became literally shocking, is that the managers fault yes and no, he puts them on to chase the game but their level of performance is down to them. The question as to whether Bowyer should go is not we are playing shit get rid, we have to look at all the other factors that got us to this point in the first place. Its a year since this club was bought for a pound most of what we see now including the division we are in  can be traced back to that moment. This will take time to rebuild and for me Bowyer is the one to do it. 

Covered End

addick1956 said:

Taxi_Lad said:

Don’t think any criticism should go the way of JFC. He’s the only one who looked bothered 

He and Osilaja plus Washington. As we let 2 in every game is Amos still not at fault !

What did Amos do wrong?
Absolutely nothing, don't be ridiculous. 

killerandflash

Simplistically, to be successful at football management you need
1) good recruitment
2) astute tactical coaching to get the best out of your players and counter the opposition (taking into account your strengths and weaknesses)
3) good man management so that everyone is motivated and there's excellent team spirit

John Coleman's Accrington tick all 3 boxes. As for Bowyer's Charlton at the moment, all 3 boxes have question marks...

Valiantphil

Amos: had little to do  - positioning a tiny bit suspect for the first goal
Gunter: decent 
Oshilaja: thought he had a fair game - he is a L1 player without a big time label
Pearce: did look outclassed by younger forwards
Morgan: can't say I really noticed his contribution - not good enough (yet) for a promo chasing side
Forster-Caskey: Good attitude and gives his all - sadly he's not good enough.
Gilbey: never realised he was even playing
Maatsen: the hardest worker in that team every time
Millar: good start
Smyth: he will be decent in this side - he's keen.
Washington: he will get goals if Smyth is in the side
Aneke: don't need Chucks to move much - he creates enough havoc anyway - we just need 90 mins every week
Williams: he's lost it
Madison: not sure he ever had it
Schwartz: cameo too brief
Referee: better than the usual dross we get.

That's the game I saw.

PeanutsMolloy

Valiantphil said:

Amos: had little to do  - positioning a tiny bit suspect for the first goal
Gunter: decent 
Oshilaja: thought he had a fair game - he is a L1 player without a big time label
Pearce: did look outclassed by younger forwards
Morgan: can't say I really noticed his contribution - not good enough (yet) for a promo chasing side
Forster-Caskey: Good attitude and gives his all - sadly he's not good enough.
Gilbey: never realised he was even playing
Maatsen: the hardest worker in that team every time
Millar: good start
Smyth: he will be decent in this side - he's keen.
Washington: he will get goals if Smyth is in the side
Aneke: don't need Chucks to move much - he creates enough havoc anyway - we just need 90 mins every week
Williams: he's lost it
Madison: not sure he ever had it
Schwartz: cameo too brief
Referee: better than the usual dross we get.

That's the game I saw.

Me too, in every detail.

Leuth

Bullshit re: Maddison. He's always had it

cafcfan1990

Covered End said:

addick1956 said:

Taxi_Lad said:

Don’t think any criticism should go the way of JFC. He’s the only one who looked bothered 

He and Osilaja plus Washington. As we let 2 in every game is Amos still not at fault !

What did Amos do wrong?
Absolutely nothing, don't be ridiculous. 

I don’t think he was particularly good for the first goal. But the OP is blaming him because we “let in 2 every game” which i agree is ridiculous and just lazy. 

ForeverAddickted

cafcfan1990 said:

Covered End said:

addick1956 said:

Taxi_Lad said:

Don’t think any criticism should go the way of JFC. He’s the only one who looked bothered 

He and Osilaja plus Washington. As we let 2 in every game is Amos still not at fault !

What did Amos do wrong?
Absolutely nothing, don't be ridiculous. 

I don’t think he was particularly good for the first goal. But the OP is blaming him because we “let in 2 every game” which i agree is ridiculous and just lazy. 

Was one catch too in the second half that he seemed a bit meh at dealing with... Got a free kick because the Accrington player stuck out a foot

One of those part of me hates to see any GK gets as think its a bit soft

meldrew66

My heart sank when I saw that Oshilaja was starting yesterday. For me, he is always a fatal mistake waiting to happen. I blamed him for us losing vital points due to predictable but unforgivable mistakes in a couple of the final games last season. For me, he is a liability that we can’t afford. Others on here don’t seem to see his errors, poor decision making, rash tackles, panicked clearances and terrible distribution.