Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.
POST-MATCH THREAD: Charlton v Accrington | Fri 8 Jan 2021
Comments
-
and in there lies the 2 fundamental problems - the midfield is the midfield - those 3 - no it is not - get maddison and wiliams in the team from the start - don't put them on with 25 to go and ask them to rescue a shambles that you have created by picking players with half the ability from the start. The other one is chucks - get him on fromEveshamAddick said:
Can’t disagree with Bows here. And he does take the blame in relation to the subs.Major said:HandG said:
I agree with this but Bowyer called him out as well in his interview! He clearly doesn’t rate him like he does Pratley and Watson. It must be horrible for the individual to play under those circumstances especially someone like Deji who, despite his limitations, never gives less than 100%...Charltonparklane said:
Positive - Deji played really well for meYou must have seen a different interview. No mention of Deji criticism in Richard Cawley's piece.And having watched the game, I can't find any argument with it.
From Richard Cawley, London Online:
Lee Bowyer tears into his Charlton Athletic side and calls display against Accrington Stanley “unacceptable”
Lee Bowyer blasted the performance of his Charlton team after tonight’s 2-0 loss to Accrington Stanley.The Addicks manager has been critical of his side’s performances on more than one occasion this season.And successive reverses – Colby Bishop striking in either half – have dropped the SE7 outfit out of the League One top six.Bowyer said: “They deserved to win – from start to finish they looked hungrier, they had more fight. I just said to the players that it’s probably the calmest I’ve ever been after a defeat ever. And it’s because I can’t defend what’s just happened.
“It’s not like my team. My team, you fight for everything. And then at least if you come off you say: ‘I’ve given everything’. There were too many last week, too many this week who think they can just turn up and be given three points. We got outfought and outbattled. We were too soft.
“First goal – it’s laughable. It’s like going to watch Sunday league football, that goal. What, the goalkeeper catches the ball and just punts it up there? You have a mix up. Come on, you’re meant to be professional footballers. That can’t be happening.“You’ve got to take pride – two experienced players. Your captain and your goalkeeper. That’s a poor goal.
“At times we moved the ball well and we had to move it well because we don’t have that physicality until we bring Chuks [Aneke] on.“We had to be brave and try and play out at times, maybe overplay at times but when we did do it then we looked dangerous. But again, in front of goal, they threw their body on the line, blocked shots and their keeper made some good saves.
“It’s just not good enough. Not acceptable. And to play for this football club, you think it’s acceptable to jump out of tackles? Literally jump out of the way. Again. That’s two players now. To play for this football club you should be proud and fight for this shirt. There are too many that turn up, think it is okay ‘I’ve got another one Tuesday’ – because we have got injuries and we’re short in midfield.
“Maybe people think ‘I have to play because there is no-one else’. So they think they can take it easy, I don’t know. I don’t know – I can’t put my finger on it.“But what I’ve witnessed just there is not what I expect from any of my team. Disappointed….I’m being very, very polite there.
“Sometimes it’s not about what I do. I said to the players: ‘You have to look at yourselves at times’. Do you accept what you’ve just done on the pitch? Do you accept it, as a professional footballer? Some of them, it’s their career. Some of them are coming up in the last year of their contract. Some of them are playing for contracts, whether it is with this club or a different club. They are on Sky tele – these are the days, if anything, you express – not go the other way.
“When I say you’ve got to be brave – fight and compete – that also means to be brave getting on the ball. Not just hiding. Get on the ball and make something happen for your team. Not just the physical side.“What will I do? I will speak to them as individuals. But as a starting 11 there isn’t really much you can do. The midfield is the midfield. That’s the three midfielders who are fit and eligible to play today. And Tuesday – it will be no different.
“Jonny Williams came on. Was he any better than any others? No. You’re bringing midfielders on and thinking ‘ come on, now give us that bit in the last 20, 30 minutes’. Chuks did. Chuks made a difference. The other two didn’t. If anything it made us weaker. And I have to take the blame for that. I brought on subs to try and make us better and it made us weaker. But that’s players who have to look at themselves as well. Have I given enough? Could I have given more? If any of them walk off that pitch and say:
“I gave everything’ then they are liars.“I can do so much but sometimes it comes from within. If you accept that is good enough then you’re in the wrong game. And you’re definitely at the wrong club – because you have to fight at this club.”
the start- playing washington isa waste of time and playing him up front on his own is moronic - i also think gunter needs dropping for matthews - there's 3 / 4 changes straight away that will improve the side next week - drop gunter, gilby, smyth and washington and start maddison, williams, chucks and matthews and you will get on the front foot from the off but this isn't entering his head - that is the problem1 -
he's chucked williams and maddison under the bus again but they are the solution, not the problem5
-
Its certain Doughty is off, and Levitt has gone back, Bowyer can only bring under 21's in. In terms of form Gilby, Maatsen are rock bottom at the moment, in terms of commitment Jonny Williams, Bogle, Maddison ( out for the season ) are not worth wasting his time over. Players who need to know they won't be in the side if they under perform like Oshilaja, Pearce and Morgan. That is seven of last nights team with Shinnie, the two centre backs and Morgan and Pratley to return eventually. If I was Bowyer I would go for at least two or three under 21's and yeah they may not be the finished article but six of the players above will not be here next season and I would rather see raw kids putting effort in than what we witnessed last night.3
-
and he is trying to prove the opposite and he is wrong0
-
But Maddison isn't the short term solution given the look of his injury. I think Williams is part of the solution but it is asking too much for him to change it on his own.DOUCHER said:he's chucked williams and maddison under the bus again but they are the solution, not the problem
BTW, I thought Oshilaja was ok. His passing was better than Pearce. He was left a bit high and dry for the second.3 -
To be honest, I would think that working as Bowyers number 2 is an insignificant role. A powerful character like LB would not welcome JJ telling him he,s wrong and providing advice. I think JJ takes training and shuts up.robroy said:All these people asking for Bowyer to go, Jackson is also accountable. I don’t want to see either go.I trust in Bowyer to turn it around.Fingers crossed we do4 -
I think Williams and Shinnie in midfield sorts some of the issues.0
-
I am completely in support of Lee Bowyer, dont fall into the trap lots of people do now of forgetting what credit is in the bank. He showed us a lot of loyalty and he has to have that repaid
A lot of us can't stand the sterile, platitude filled interviews football people give after games or try and deflect blame. Lee Bowyer was a player who always showed up, he never asks players to do what he didn't do himself. For our squad who are decent players it is a mentality why performances like last night happen. In the case of Deji I personally like his enthusiasm for the game and I think he gets the best out of what he has however he is prone to daydreaming a bit, Gilbey last night actively hid. He purposely moved away from the ball when we were in possession and drifted when we weren't, didn't hold his position and like I sadi a month or so ago, he is either playing totally out of position or is playing with an injury as his career to date is pretty impressive. Pearcey is getting old and whilst I like his character the difference is class between him and Inniss/Famewo is there to be seen.
Maddison did pussy out of a couple of challenges and at any level of football that is unacceptable, nobody expects him to be marauding round the pitch smashing people however when the ball is there to be won you have to commit.
Bowyer is guilty of being honest and having high standards. He is a manager in the mould of a lot of us, the shinned pass he will forgive, the shanked clearance happens at this level but lack of will desire and guts for a Charlton side is key and for me the players let their manager down.
No manager at this level would have not been seething at that display. OK its shit being outplayed by Accrington but that happens and when we received footballing lessons from Swansea, Doncaster, Brighton and Burnley over the last decade and more it is damaging for the ego but not showing up and competing physically is totally unacceptable and I'm glad he leaves the players in no doubt what the standard is. Because effort and competing for balls is something any footballer can do, they can't all be Pirlo or Baggio but they can compete, then you earn the right to play21 -
Well played Carter, absolutely sums it up.0
-
If maatsen makes any sort of challenge Deji isn't left high and dry.MuttleyCAFC said:
But Maddison isn't the short term solution given the look of his injury. I think Williams is part of the solution but it is asking too much for him to change it on his own.DOUCHER said:he's chucked williams and maddison under the bus again but they are the solution, not the problem
BTW, I thought Oshilaja was ok. His passing was better than Pearce. He was left a bit high and dry for the second.
Quite simply bottled the challenge1 -
Sponsored links:
-
Have a go in private - best a day or two after - when the player may even agree with you. But to do it immediately after the game in a recorded/televised interview is a massive no no. It is not acceptable at any level. I really can't understand how people can't see how this will not lose you the respect of the players. I really can't.6
-
If Williams and Maddison are the answer, we really are screwed.DOUCHER said:he's chucked williams and maddison under the bus again but they are the solution, not the problem
Thankfully, they're obviously not, though we'll need to be realistic and lower expectations until Inniss, Famewo, Shinnie and Watson or Pratley return.
Jonnie's only interested in playing for Wales and sadly does an impersonation of a headless chicken when he plays for us these days.
Maddison has become unwelcome at every other club he's played for. He was an option to pursue when we were desperate (last season) but it was a big mistake to go through with him with TS installed. Bow thought he could get through to him. He patently can't and maybe isn't get through-able to.6 -
Genuine questions for those who are still firmly behind Bowyer:
1 - Would you still want him as manager if you knew for a fact that he had lost the dressing room. By that I mean 8-10 players sick of him and no longer playing for him.2 - If the answer to 1 is yes, how long do you give him to turn it around?1 -
Very balanced post @PeanutsMolloy sums up my views perfectly.4
-
Not sure Peterborough fans complained too much when he got 100 odd goals/assists in 250 appearances over 6 years.PeanutsMolloy said:
If Williams and Maddison are the answer, we really are screwed.DOUCHER said:he's chucked williams and maddison under the bus again but they are the solution, not the problem
Thankfully, they're obviously not, though we'll need to be realistic and lower expectations until Inniss, Famewo, Shinnie and Watson or Pratley return.
Jonnie's only interested in playing for Wales and sadly does an impersonation of a headless chicken when he plays for us these days.
Maddison has become unwelcome at every other club he's played for. He was an option to pursue when we were desperate (last season) but it was a big mistake to go through with him with TS installed. Bow thought he could get through to him. He patently can't and maybe isn't get through-able to.2 -
I thought Williams did ok. What was he supposed to do? He tried to link up on the left a few times but there were no red shirts near him more centrally to pass to or link up play with.2
-
Did you watch us against Wimbledon? Those 2 ran the show when they came on.PeanutsMolloy said:
If Williams and Maddison are the answer, we really are screwed.DOUCHER said:he's chucked williams and maddison under the bus again but they are the solution, not the problem
Thankfully, they're obviously not, though we'll need to be realistic and lower expectations until Inniss, Famewo, Shinnie and Watson or Pratley return.
Jonnie's only interested in playing for Wales and sadly does an impersonation of a headless chicken when he plays for us these days.
Maddison has become unwelcome at every other club he's played for. He was an option to pursue when we were desperate (last season) but it was a big mistake to go through with him with TS installed. Bow thought he could get through to him. He patently can't and maybe isn't get through-able to.
Makes me laugh that Maddison gets slammed for his attitude when Bowyer spend TWO windows chasing him. Surely if there was a problem, and I'm not saying there is, he should have known!
1 -
You need to give players like Maddison and Williams a run of games and make judgements form there. Stanley's tactics were incredibly simple, and everybody in the team knew their part in the team. We need a bit more consistency in selection.1
-
Amos: had little to do
Gunter: decent
Oshilaja: inept
Pearce: clumsy weak and slow
Morgan: worked really hard doing much of gilbeys stuff too Noy his fault accy swamped him
Forster-Caskey: industrious tireless but 50% of his dead balls are hopeless
Gilbey: never realised how tall he is irrelevant when he hides that diligently Better option than Lapslie? 🤪🤯
Maatsen: hard working and much better in his natural position
Millar: good start final ball needs refinement
Smyth: moments of promise
Washington: no service for 45 minutes and then hooked Baffling 🤯
Aneke: Bundled thru a few tackles but his movement is dismal
Williams: pathetic unforgivable
Madison: looked disinterested
Schwartz: cameo too brief
Referee: inconsistency led to inevitable niggly deterioration and late flurry of cards
3 -
How did they perform in training after that game? - Training isnt everything but we know Bowyer wont put up with slacking or as AFKA said on another thread if they're showing up lateCroydon said:
Did you watch us against Wimbledon? Those 2 ran the show when they came on.PeanutsMolloy said:
If Williams and Maddison are the answer, we really are screwed.DOUCHER said:he's chucked williams and maddison under the bus again but they are the solution, not the problem
Thankfully, they're obviously not, though we'll need to be realistic and lower expectations until Inniss, Famewo, Shinnie and Watson or Pratley return.
Jonnie's only interested in playing for Wales and sadly does an impersonation of a headless chicken when he plays for us these days.
Maddison has become unwelcome at every other club he's played for. He was an option to pursue when we were desperate (last season) but it was a big mistake to go through with him with TS installed. Bow thought he could get through to him. He patently can't and maybe isn't get through-able to.
Makes me laugh that Maddison gets slammed for his attitude when Bowyer spend TWO windows chasing him. Surely if there was a problem, and I'm not saying there is, he should have known!
If they're then swanning around the place thinking they've saved us against Wimbledon and dont have to work then they shouldnt be starting week in / week out1 -
Sponsored links:
-
Even this is starting to wear a bit thin, just need to add the line "or else" and away you go.MattF said:Of little consequence but it's been mentioned that TS has been quiet on Twitter tonight
Just wondered how the phone conversation went tonight with Thomas.
1 -
If Bowyer was digging someone out for missing a chance then I'd be inclined to agree but he isn't and any professional who gets the hump with being pulled up for pussying out of a tackle needs to look closer to home to see the problem and no manager will change that. That is a player problem and I'd be inclined to get rid if the players if they feel he has lost their faith because not doing football fundamentals will ensure they are already playing at the highest level they will.MuttleyCAFC said:Have a go in private - best a day or two after - when the player may even agree with you. But to do it immediately after the game in a recorded/televised interview is a massive no no. It is not acceptable at any level. I really can't understand how people can't see how this will not lose you the respect of the players. I really can't.
Dennis Rommedahl used to wind me up jumping out of tackles but you had to let it go because he was a world level player, same with Jensen who whilst being a total fanny would win us games and unlock sides. A division 3 player doing it, nah
Bowyer is guilty of being honest and I'm glad he isn't saving bollocking like that for in private because I have no doubt he sets an expectation for his players to leave it all on the pitch, they do that, he backs them5 -
I think you need to look at Jonny Williams performances last season Croydon and don't forget Jonny Williams took up his second year option and that is out of Bowyers hands plus after his first season most supporters would have given him that option. Only problem is Jonny Williams thought that he would get a move elsewhere and when he didn't he took up the option, that was entirely his right to do so. The year option dose not include undying commitment to the cause, sadly.1
-
Yes, and we had about three opportunities to clear that ball before it came into the box for their 2nd. JFC for a start got mugged off on the touch line trying to keep possession with a Cruyff turn! Keep it simple put it out regroup defend the throw and away you go. It’s not rocket science ffs.Charltonparklane said:
If maatsen makes any sort of challenge Deji isn't left high and dry.MuttleyCAFC said:
But Maddison isn't the short term solution given the look of his injury. I think Williams is part of the solution but it is asking too much for him to change it on his own.DOUCHER said:he's chucked williams and maddison under the bus again but they are the solution, not the problem
BTW, I thought Oshilaja was ok. His passing was better than Pearce. He was left a bit high and dry for the second.
Quite simply bottled the challenge2 -
Yeap, and every minute he's played for us.Croydon said:
Did you watch us against Wimbledon? Those 2 ran the show when they came on.PeanutsMolloy said:
If Williams and Maddison are the answer, we really are screwed.DOUCHER said:he's chucked williams and maddison under the bus again but they are the solution, not the problem
Thankfully, they're obviously not, though we'll need to be realistic and lower expectations until Inniss, Famewo, Shinnie and Watson or Pratley return.
Jonnie's only interested in playing for Wales and sadly does an impersonation of a headless chicken when he plays for us these days.
Maddison has become unwelcome at every other club he's played for. He was an option to pursue when we were desperate (last season) but it was a big mistake to go through with him with TS installed. Bow thought he could get through to him. He patently can't and maybe isn't get through-able to.
Makes me laugh that Maddison gets slammed for his attitude when Bowyer spend TWO windows chasing him. Surely if there was a problem, and I'm not saying there is, he should have known!
A great goal that day but that's been his only moment of worth (and it's notable it involved no other team member) he's worn red.
Has to go.5 -
Had a covid test at the Valley yesterday, result emailed back negative.
Thought it was a match report!1 -
It's obviously true that the salary cap hindered our team rebuilding (although Coleman has done that very well on the same or less money at Accrington) and the salary cap will again limit what we can do this window. But if you can't change the resources you're working with you have to get more out of the ones you've got. The onus falls on Bowyer to come up with a working formation, better tactics, deciding on his best available starting eleven and motivating them to perform better.
I'm still for Bowyer at present. We had far too much trigger happy managerial changes under Duchatelet and we are crying out for some stability. Bowyer showed loyalty during the awful last few years and he deserves at least until the end of this season to get it right. But he also needs to learn and improve, and that includes finding a way to get the players playing for him again because it really doesn't look like they're doing that at present.2 -
Was Maddison even that bad? He got involved, was direct, hit a lovely ball for Smith, drove into the box. Don't see what he did that deserved being called out. Our problem is we don't give him the ball more.15
-
Plymouth was the game he scored in - Wimbledon he came on and changed the game, certainly more than Williams for mePeanutsMolloy said:
Yeap, and every minute he's played for us.Croydon said:
Did you watch us against Wimbledon? Those 2 ran the show when they came on.PeanutsMolloy said:
If Williams and Maddison are the answer, we really are screwed.DOUCHER said:he's chucked williams and maddison under the bus again but they are the solution, not the problem
Thankfully, they're obviously not, though we'll need to be realistic and lower expectations until Inniss, Famewo, Shinnie and Watson or Pratley return.
Jonnie's only interested in playing for Wales and sadly does an impersonation of a headless chicken when he plays for us these days.
Maddison has become unwelcome at every other club he's played for. He was an option to pursue when we were desperate (last season) but it was a big mistake to go through with him with TS installed. Bow thought he could get through to him. He patently can't and maybe isn't get through-able to.
Makes me laugh that Maddison gets slammed for his attitude when Bowyer spend TWO windows chasing him. Surely if there was a problem, and I'm not saying there is, he should have known!
A great goal that day but that's been his only moment of worth (and it's notable it involved no other team member) he's worn red.
Has to go.
He did then start the next game at Swindon (played 72-mins), put in the good ball that Bogle fluffed and that was it1 -
I think there’s a number of things at play
Bowyer’s fatigued and working under the instability of the absolute nonsense that went on with the last takeover has taken its toll. I can’t imagine how hard it would’ve been to be coming into work, not knowing if you were going to be paid, and having the expectation and hope of a fanbase that he could keep us up last season, and then all of a sudden rip to promotion because we now have a new owner and at last stability. I also think our (certainly my) expectations of Bowyer were that he could achieve anything based on what he achieved 2 years ago in such circumstances.
The team isn’t as good as the one we had 2 years ago. We may differ in our opinion as fans about this squad and team and what they can achieve, but for me we’ve not got the quality or the skill to get out this division. You can analyse different parts of the squad. Are JFC, Gilbey and Morgan going to adequately replicate what Bielik, Cullen and Aribo did 2 years ago. No - I chose those 3 because they were the 3 that started last night, but even if you change that and pick Shinnie, Williams and Maddison, or Pratley, Shinnie and Millar, or whatever combo, I don’t think our midfield is strong enough. It’s the same with the defence. Mitigating circumstances with the injuries to Inniss and Famewo, but whatever combination we’ve had to adapt to since they were both out, have made mistakes. It’s across the whole of the back line as well. Up top is so immobile. Washington started well but in the last few games I’ve come away thinking that the likes of Piggott, Bishop last night and a few others from the opposition look muck more effective than him. Bogle hasn’t worked and Aneke can only give us 20 odd minutes. You can’t build a promotion winning team out of that.
The football is slow and predictable. We think we look bright in going forward, but in reality, apart from 30 mins against Wimbledon, the last 10 have been like being asked to binge watch Miranda on BBC, all episodes, start to finish with no toilet breaks. I’m 38. I’ve seen 4 promotions (that I can remember) in my lifetime and the success of stability in the Prem. I’m old enough to know what a good team looks like and when you have a group of players good enough. This lot aren’t.
I wish Bowyer didn’t have the spotlight on him as much as he has recently, but all this calling out players publicly, post match reactions and poor performances, suggest it’s not working and it may be past the point of it working under him. The difficulty for a lot of us is that this dip has happened very quickly, and it’s hard (for me anyway), to get my head around how and why, and we want him to be afforded time quite rightly, because of everything he has achieved to date. I just can’t go on watching more of what has been served up over the last 10 games because I think it basically says you’ve got a manager and a team pulling in opposite directions.
the final point, is that I understand Bow wants commitment etc, but even if we had a team of 11 Pratley’s, that’s still not going to be enough. I said this before but Claus Jensen never stuck tackles in. Curbs found a way to manage him and adapt the team to take into account Jensen was on the pitch to account for that. Not suggesting Williams or Maddison are anywhere near Jensen’s league, merely highlighting you’re not going to be managing a team of Pratley’s and nor should you expect too. Nor will that get you up. I think Williams and Maddison have both looked as comparatively committed when they’ve played to Pratley12
