I have never been part of the "Bowyer Out" brigade, I've been a more cautious member of @ForeverAddickted's group.
However, after this evenings post-match interview I think the manager has had enough.
He hasn't just thrown a player or two under the bus, he's put on full Rambo outfit, lobbed a couple of smoke grenades into the dressing room and started spraying bullets everywhere.
There can't be a player left in that squad who'd want to run through brick walls for the boss.
It's a sad day for the Charlton Athletic Football Club.
Sadly I think you are right. Welcome to Danish Dan the next manager of Charlton some no mark that fans can get behind for a year.
The point is Bowyer has to take responsibility for that shit show. Then perhaps genuine fans would be more willing to draw a line under it and allow Bowyer to do what he needs to do behind closed doors. I think it is very poor management to single out individual players publicly like he has done.
It's his style and I don't know why people are shocked by it. I'm just saying be careful what you wish for.
It's not a great style as it doesn't seem to work. We can't play much worse.
We can and have played worse, many nights I travelled home watching us at shitty Selhurst. And many times under many managers since. Bowyer had no interest In football after he retired. Robinson with his gob somehow talked him into coming back(maybe he was wrong). Bowyer was then left in charge and done an amazing job under the circumstances. I'm not saying that makes him untouchable but I'd give him this season with the new ownership to build. I don't think he will even get this season though as it appears so many want him gone. So when some random Danish manager rocks up with a Charlton kit on I'm sure everyone will behind him.
Weren't we in the top tier for most of the time at shitty Selhurst? We were never rolled over by fucking Accrington Stanley. Liverpool, Clough's Forest, Arsenal, Spurs maybe but fucking Accrington Stanley?!?!
Karl Robinson lost a lot of the fan base by loosing to Gillingham. But fucking Accrington Stanley?
The wage cap isn't an excuse because they didn't make us pay Gunter and Watson about half of their 1st 11s wages.
I am not embarrassed we lost to Accrington Stanley, I am embarrassed we didn't give our selves a chance to win and were out played, out thought and out battled.
You mentioned Accrington Stanley a lot then say you aint embarrassed? Yes we didn't lose to them whilst playing at Selhurst but we were still awful to watch there against whoever we played. I'm as lost as you why we ain't battling but Im hoping LB can sort that out still. The wage cap is not an excuse it's a fact and it's fkd us. I just think LB needs a bit of breather and change of plan. I don't think he will be given that time though
The wage cap hasn't fucked us, how we spent it fucked us. How many Accrington players wages do you think Gunter's and Watson's cover?
The same is true for Burton, MK Don's, Shrewsbury etc etc. I'll give you a clue, it's about 5 or 6.
Sorry you really are not making sense. Those players were bought in during the last transfer window when we didn't really know if we would still have a club, so it was very last minute. This window we have money but are hampered by the cap.
Gunter and Watson were bought in after Thomas bought the club. So we did know we still had a club. They are on over 10k a week between them.
That's why we are hampered by the cap. Accrington, Burton, MK dons could probably have 4 or 5 players on that between them.
Yes but it was very last minute.
This window we are hampered. Who are you blaming as I'm confused
He's saying we're paying too much for certain players, and that's why we're struggling with the cap.
i don't care about bowyer digging out players , i care about the fact he cannot set the team up properly - and that is the root cause of all the disharmony. If players believe in the manager and in what they are doing, they will be motivated - there are only so many times you can go on a pitch and bang yout head against a brick wall coz the manager has picked the wrong team - again. That is all they want froma manager - forget nice fluffy words and all that crap - just give the team a chance by not picking moronic line ups.
Is that actually a quote, if so I'm in the Bowyer out brigade... You can't handle players like that
Anyone who watched the game and listened to Bowyer when he gave his honest interview And heard what he said correctly would not twist His words out of context, if they understood what He actually said. Maddison was shit tonight and was a poor Substitution.
Well at least we've got something out of this evening ... A lovely haiku
I have never been part of the "Bowyer Out" brigade, I've been a more cautious member of @ForeverAddickted's group.
However, after this evenings post-match interview I think the manager has had enough.
He hasn't just thrown a player or two under the bus, he's put on full Rambo outfit, lobbed a couple of smoke grenades into the dressing room and started spraying bullets everywhere.
There can't be a player left in that squad who'd want to run through brick walls for the boss.
It's a sad day for the Charlton Athletic Football Club.
Sadly I think you are right. Welcome to Danish Dan the next manager of Charlton some no mark that fans can get behind for a year.
The point is Bowyer has to take responsibility for that shit show. Then perhaps genuine fans would be more willing to draw a line under it and allow Bowyer to do what he needs to do behind closed doors. I think it is very poor management to single out individual players publicly like he has done.
It's his style and I don't know why people are shocked by it. I'm just saying be careful what you wish for.
It's not a great style as it doesn't seem to work. We can't play much worse.
We can and have played worse, many nights I travelled home watching us at shitty Selhurst. And many times under many managers since. Bowyer had no interest In football after he retired. Robinson with his gob somehow talked him into coming back(maybe he was wrong). Bowyer was then left in charge and done an amazing job under the circumstances. I'm not saying that makes him untouchable but I'd give him this season with the new ownership to build. I don't think he will even get this season though as it appears so many want him gone. So when some random Danish manager rocks up with a Charlton kit on I'm sure everyone will behind him.
Weren't we in the top tier for most of the time at shitty Selhurst? We were never rolled over by fucking Accrington Stanley. Liverpool, Clough's Forest, Arsenal, Spurs maybe but fucking Accrington Stanley?!?!
Karl Robinson lost a lot of the fan base by loosing to Gillingham. But fucking Accrington Stanley?
The wage cap isn't an excuse because they didn't make us pay Gunter and Watson about half of their 1st 11s wages.
I am not embarrassed we lost to Accrington Stanley, I am embarrassed we didn't give our selves a chance to win and were out played, out thought and out battled.
You mentioned Accrington Stanley a lot then say you aint embarrassed? Yes we didn't lose to them whilst playing at Selhurst but we were still awful to watch there against whoever we played. I'm as lost as you why we ain't battling but Im hoping LB can sort that out still. The wage cap is not an excuse it's a fact and it's fkd us. I just think LB needs a bit of breather and change of plan. I don't think he will be given that time though
The wage cap hasn't fucked us, how we spent it fucked us. How many Accrington players wages do you think Gunter's and Watson's cover?
The same is true for Burton, MK Don's, Shrewsbury etc etc. I'll give you a clue, it's about 5 or 6.
Sorry you really are not making sense. Those players were bought in during the last transfer window when we didn't really know if we would still have a club, so it was very last minute. This window we have money but are hampered by the cap.
Gunter and Watson were bought in after Thomas bought the club. So we did know we still had a club. They are on over 10k a week between them.
That's why we are hampered by the cap. Accrington, Burton, MK dons could probably have 4 or 5 players on that between them.
Yes but it was very last minute.
This window we are hampered. Who are you blaming as I'm confused
We are at the cap because we are paying top dollar for players, when other teams aren't.
Bowyer can't big up Gunter and Watson as "transfer coups" then blame the fact they actually cost money as a reason he can't replace them 3 or 4 months later.
Both of those deals weren't last minute. They were on the table last January, if not before
Gunter at this level I'd say is a coup. But you are probably right that we offered to pay more than anybody else. Anyway we are going in circles and I'm not sure if you're saying we shouldn't have signed these players or not. Everyone seemed thrilled at the time.
No. He's after his CB's back. This is what is causing all the frustration in the LB plan. He knows once Innis and Famewo are back we will start winning games again.
I have never been part of the "Bowyer Out" brigade, I've been a more cautious member of @ForeverAddickted's group.
However, after this evenings post-match interview I think the manager has had enough.
He hasn't just thrown a player or two under the bus, he's put on full Rambo outfit, lobbed a couple of smoke grenades into the dressing room and started spraying bullets everywhere.
There can't be a player left in that squad who'd want to run through brick walls for the boss.
It's a sad day for the Charlton Athletic Football Club.
Sadly I think you are right. Welcome to Danish Dan the next manager of Charlton some no mark that fans can get behind for a year.
The point is Bowyer has to take responsibility for that shit show. Then perhaps genuine fans would be more willing to draw a line under it and allow Bowyer to do what he needs to do behind closed doors. I think it is very poor management to single out individual players publicly like he has done.
It's his style and I don't know why people are shocked by it. I'm just saying be careful what you wish for.
It's not a great style as it doesn't seem to work. We can't play much worse.
We can and have played worse, many nights I travelled home watching us at shitty Selhurst. And many times under many managers since. Bowyer had no interest In football after he retired. Robinson with his gob somehow talked him into coming back(maybe he was wrong). Bowyer was then left in charge and done an amazing job under the circumstances. I'm not saying that makes him untouchable but I'd give him this season with the new ownership to build. I don't think he will even get this season though as it appears so many want him gone. So when some random Danish manager rocks up with a Charlton kit on I'm sure everyone will behind him.
Weren't we in the top tier for most of the time at shitty Selhurst? We were never rolled over by fucking Accrington Stanley. Liverpool, Clough's Forest, Arsenal, Spurs maybe but fucking Accrington Stanley?!?!
Karl Robinson lost a lot of the fan base by loosing to Gillingham. But fucking Accrington Stanley?
The wage cap isn't an excuse because they didn't make us pay Gunter and Watson about half of their 1st 11s wages.
I am not embarrassed we lost to Accrington Stanley, I am embarrassed we didn't give our selves a chance to win and were out played, out thought and out battled.
You mentioned Accrington Stanley a lot then say you aint embarrassed? Yes we didn't lose to them whilst playing at Selhurst but we were still awful to watch there against whoever we played. I'm as lost as you why we ain't battling but Im hoping LB can sort that out still. The wage cap is not an excuse it's a fact and it's fkd us. I just think LB needs a bit of breather and change of plan. I don't think he will be given that time though
The wage cap hasn't fucked us, how we spent it fucked us. How many Accrington players wages do you think Gunter's and Watson's cover?
The same is true for Burton, MK Don's, Shrewsbury etc etc. I'll give you a clue, it's about 5 or 6.
Sorry you really are not making sense. Those players were bought in during the last transfer window when we didn't really know if we would still have a club, so it was very last minute. This window we have money but are hampered by the cap.
Gunter and Watson were bought in after Thomas bought the club. So we did know we still had a club. They are on over 10k a week between them.
That's why we are hampered by the cap. Accrington, Burton, MK dons could probably have 4 or 5 players on that between them.
Yes but it was very last minute.
This window we are hampered. Who are you blaming as I'm confused
We are at the cap because we are paying top dollar for players, when other teams aren't.
Bowyer can't big up Gunter and Watson as "transfer coups" then blame the fact they actually cost money as a reason he can't replace them 3 or 4 months later.
Both of those deals weren't last minute. They were on the table last January, if not before
Gunter at this level I'd say is a coup. But you are probably right that we offered to pay more than anybody else. Anyway we are going in circles and I'm not sure if you're saying we shouldn't have signed these players or not. Everyone seemed thrilled at the time.
It is a coup, but for 6 grand a week, when Matthews is on less than 3, was it a smart move? Knowing about the wage cap?
They chose to pay him that, which is more than 2 "league 1 average wage" players. Did they not consider they may need more players?
I think his comments were about two players bottling tackles and he also named his two centre backs as lacking in desire to battle their front two. Is he right ? I remember Denis Rommedahl jumping out of the way of a tackle at West Brom, most supporters were furious but Curbs never uttered a word publicly. These are different days perhaps but the fact for me is Bowyer decides he won't put up with it and was correct about both players actions. I don't like Maddison as a player and this is not the Jonny Williams we knew two seasons back, if it were me I simply wouldn't play them which is what Curbs did with that Tosser Rommedahl.
I agree....its not the same Jonny Williams of the play-off final nor the Maddison that shone most weeks for Peterborough. Maybe its because the manager has thrown the both under the bus & left them on the bench for a couple of weeks once they had scored. You are not going to get the best out of a player of you belittle them or don't play them. Both are playmakers- they are not in the team to go flying in for 50/50 challenges.
As for the match itself......
I thought Millar looked pretty good & was probably MOTM. Ran at players which is something we have lacked & wanted to shoot (again something we have lacked). On the other wing Smyth probably had his best game for us & again caused problems. We were unlucky to go in 1-0 down. It was a misjudgment by Pearce & it happens it football - especially in the 3rd tier. I don't blame him. Again, their 2nd goal - bloke took it really well (I wonder how many of our players would have hit it first time instead of dragging it round onto their right foot). Deji was unlucky as he had to go for the original block & was on the floor initially as he had just headed out an earlier cross. No blame on him.
Imo our main problem is in the fact that we didnt score first. Stats have shown that since our promotion season we don't lose many games once we score first & haven't won a single game once we have conceded first. One of you Bowyer apologists need to get onto the blower to him NOW and let him know as turning the latter stat around is the only way he will save his job as keeping a clean sheet ain't going to happen any time soon.
IF Bowyer is still here by the end of the month I would seriously tell him to stop changing the team around. Get a settled team & a settled formation and trust that your players can play 2 games in a week. That is the only way he/we will turn this around. Sadly I think this season is over & just glad we put that run of 6 straight wins together otherwise we seriously would be in a relegation scrap. As it is I'll be very surprised if we get back into the top 6 again this season, esp with LB as manager. Teams around us have now got 1 or 2 games in hand on us & unless a miracle happens I don't see us going on another run like we did.
When a few of us were calling for Bowyers head weeks ago people asked "well, who would you have as manager". The answer(s) were sitting on the Sky studio tonight. Managers are out there - you just have to be brave enough to ask the question
By all accounts we had no choice but to agree to Williams extension and that being the case Bowyer doesn't see him as long term, as for Maddison, he scores a great goal then doesn't hold down a place, why? Is something happening on the training ground or not happening ? He jumped out of the way of a tackle and I agree with Bowyer it's unacceptable. If we change the manager would get a better return out those two players Golfie ? would Jason Pearce roll back the years ? My feeling is no on all counts.
But that’s players who have to look at themselves as well. Have I
given enough? Could I have given more? If any of them walk off that
pitch and say: “I gave everything’ then they are liars.“I
can do so much but sometimes it comes from within. If you accept that
is good enough then you’re in the wrong game. And you’re definitely at
the wrong club – because you have to fight at this club.”
Unless your name's Watson, Pratley, Gilbey or Pearce...
He told you he jumped out of it cos he took a knock on a previous challenge, watch it back Bowyer he takes a couple before stepping out of one challenge.
We did not concede two goals because of Maddison. We conceded two goals AGAIN because of your team selection, tactics and management.
Honestly, this feels very much like the beginning of the end for Bowyer. The mood does not sound good around the team right now and I really can’t see it improving as things stand.
That was a performance devoid of anything resembling what a team needs to compete, let alone stay in contention for promotion. I’ve been reluctant to dig Bowyer out until recently but I’m not sure how much longer this can go on. Regardless of how you thought the team performed, there’s no way you make these kinds of comments without it having a detrimental effect on the squad’s spirit, the kind of which we are seeing played out in real time.
For me, Tommy’s Twitter silence right now is telling. He knows he has a decision to make
Don’t think any criticism should go the way of JFC. He’s the only one who looked bothered
Agree, but you should add Oshilaja to that. For someone Bowyer doesn't rate, he put in a solid, committed performance at CB that we've been missing for weeks.
Something is wrong when the lead headline from the manager after a 2-0 home defeat is an attacking player pulling out of a tackle when we were, er, 2-0 down
It wasn't great what Maddison did, but we were 2-0 down and beaten at that stage. That's surely more important?
Who were the 'alot' who were given a chance when they had no other options? I can only really think of Williams and Maddison.
Players he has both publicly called out, and dropped after good performances.
Morgan, Bogle, Maddison, Morgan, Williams, Bogle.
Thing is Bogle didn't even play today, and Maddison and Williams only played 30 minutes. So seems unfair to solely blame them for today's performance.
Seems like, whatever happens, Williams gets the blame.
Well he deserved it today. Should have been wearing a Tutu.
I respectfully disagree. Like many of the squad, he is not getting a good run in the team to prove himself and instead expected to prove himself in cameos which for any player is pretty difficult.
I have never been part of the "Bowyer Out" brigade, I've been a more cautious member of @ForeverAddickted's group.
However, after this evenings post-match interview I think the manager has had enough.
He hasn't just thrown a player or two under the bus, he's put on full Rambo outfit, lobbed a couple of smoke grenades into the dressing room and started spraying bullets everywhere.
There can't be a player left in that squad who'd want to run through brick walls for the boss.
It's a sad day for the Charlton Athletic Football Club.
Sadly I think you are right. Welcome to Danish Dan the next manager of Charlton some no mark that fans can get behind for a year.
The point is Bowyer has to take responsibility for that shit show. Then perhaps genuine fans would be more willing to draw a line under it and allow Bowyer to do what he needs to do behind closed doors. I think it is very poor management to single out individual players publicly like he has done.
It's his style and I don't know why people are shocked by it. I'm just saying be careful what you wish for.
It's not a great style as it doesn't seem to work. We can't play much worse.
We can and have played worse, many nights I travelled home watching us at shitty Selhurst. And many times under many managers since. Bowyer had no interest In football after he retired. Robinson with his gob somehow talked him into coming back(maybe he was wrong). Bowyer was then left in charge and done an amazing job under the circumstances. I'm not saying that makes him untouchable but I'd give him this season with the new ownership to build. I don't think he will even get this season though as it appears so many want him gone. So when some random Danish manager rocks up with a Charlton kit on I'm sure everyone will behind him.
Weren't we in the top tier for most of the time at shitty Selhurst? We were never rolled over by fucking Accrington Stanley. Liverpool, Clough's Forest, Arsenal, Spurs maybe but fucking Accrington Stanley?!?!
Karl Robinson lost a lot of the fan base by loosing to Gillingham. But fucking Accrington Stanley?
The wage cap isn't an excuse because they didn't make us pay Gunter and Watson about half of their 1st 11s wages.
I am not embarrassed we lost to Accrington Stanley, I am embarrassed we didn't give our selves a chance to win and were out played, out thought and out battled.
You mentioned Accrington Stanley a lot then say you aint embarrassed? Yes we didn't lose to them whilst playing at Selhurst but we were still awful to watch there against whoever we played. I'm as lost as you why we ain't battling but Im hoping LB can sort that out still. The wage cap is not an excuse it's a fact and it's fkd us. I just think LB needs a bit of breather and change of plan. I don't think he will be given that time though
The wage cap hasn't fucked us, how we spent it fucked us. How many Accrington players wages do you think Gunter's and Watson's cover?
The same is true for Burton, MK Don's, Shrewsbury etc etc. I'll give you a clue, it's about 5 or 6.
Sorry you really are not making sense. Those players were bought in during the last transfer window when we didn't really know if we would still have a club, so it was very last minute. This window we have money but are hampered by the cap.
Gunter and Watson were bought in after Thomas bought the club. So we did know we still had a club. They are on over 10k a week between them.
That's why we are hampered by the cap. Accrington, Burton, MK dons could probably have 4 or 5 players on that between them.
Yes but it was very last minute.
This window we are hampered. Who are you blaming as I'm confused
We are at the cap because we are paying top dollar for players, when other teams aren't.
Bowyer can't big up Gunter and Watson as "transfer coups" then blame the fact they actually cost money as a reason he can't replace them 3 or 4 months later.
Both of those deals weren't last minute. They were on the table last January, if not before
Gunter at this level I'd say is a coup. But you are probably right that we offered to pay more than anybody else. Anyway we are going in circles and I'm not sure if you're saying we shouldn't have signed these players or not. Everyone seemed thrilled at the time.
It is a coup, but for 6 grand a week, when Matthews is on less than 3, was it a smart move? Knowing about the wage cap?
They chose to pay him that, which is more than 2 "league 1 average wage" players. Did they not consider they may need more players?
We're paying nearly 9k a week for two right backs under a salary cap?
This is my first comment. I believe the players we currently have are the same level that what we would have had if we were still owned by Roland. These players are all frees and loans which means another club doesn’t want them. I wished we had gambled and paid big for young efl players who were outside the salary cap and who can create exciting performances. I see teams like Lincon ripping the league apart with majority kids, we play a defence and old game. Bowyer needs to step up. New owner, new regime, new manager?
This is my first comment. I believe the players we currently have are the same level that what we would have had if we were still owned by Roland. These players are all frees and loans which means another club doesn’t want them. I wished we had gambled and paid big for young efl players who were outside the salary cap and who can create exciting performances. I see teams like Lincon ripping the league apart with majority kids, we play a defence and old game. Bowyer needs to step up. New owner, new regime, new manager?
I'm a massive fan of LB and I think talk of him deserving the sack is incredibly premature, I think TS has been a breath of fresh air but it's worth remembering a lot of this team was built before his arrival and I'm sure there's a lot of players in the squad we wouldn't have signed had the takeover happened sooner, however we did the best we could at the time and I still think we have a team capable of finishing top 6 at the end of the season which was most people's ambition at the start of this season.
I will say the individual criticism of players I do find makes me cringe a little, I get it's probably just his nature being the type of player he was however I think it's a risky move and likely to alienate some players. I think we all want an honest manager and sometimes players need digging out but I think some of the stuff he's come out with recently would have been better said behind closed doors or not said at all. The comment about MM's injury I'm sure was said in the spur of the moment however it doesn't reflect well and I think would have been better left unsaid personally, we all know the type of personality LB is and after some of our performances recently I can see why he's frustrated and wanted to pull players up but I think sometimes he just needs to take a deep breath and think through some of his post match comments.
That said I'm still fully behind LB, I think we're in a poor run of form but equally we are the type of team who could easily put a winning run together like we did earlier this season. Every team has a loss of form at some point and let's hope this is ours. It's worth remembering we are still in and around the top six which was always the target and we've got some big players coming back soon, as well as our new arrivals and anyone else we manage to bring in before the end of this window. LB has taken us up once before I still see no reason to lose faith he can't do it again.
I only saw the last 35 minutes, having woken up around 4am and decided to turn the TV on. I believe it was the worst part of the game from what I've read on here, but it was pretty dire all round. We're a goal down, later two, and there's so little urgency in the side. So often we just pass around the back five for 30 seconds then with no viable attacking outlet, hoof the ball towards Chuks! Amos could do that straight from his arms so we just waste time. I seem to remember last year we won mire games where we had less possession; this we're we're dominating possession and getting nowhere.
The little I saw of Millar he looked pacey and positive. Maddison and Williams were both poor in comparison, in fact even Gilbey looked more of a threat than they did (remember, only based on the last 35 minutes!).
Maatsen hasn't looked the same player since Famewo got injured. I don't know if that's coincidence but I think he plays more confidently with Famewo there. Gunter is a much better player than we've seen in the past few games and we know Pearce gives away the odd goal. Oshilaja looked the pick of the back four.
Chuks looked OK but didn't have the right support and Ronnie had no time to show us anything of note.
My IPTV Sky stream froze just before Bowyer's interview, and I'm glad it did. There's more to management than coaching and picking the team and he's failing badly on the man-management side and like many fans, I'm sure this is affecting morale, hence the performance.
I'm sure Bowyer has no idea of his best formation and best players for each position. I wonder what his first choice XI would be if the whole squad were fit? No doubt it would include Gunter, Gilbey, Pratley and Watson!
I said I wouldn't stay up til 5am to watch the game but sadly I did! What a fool I am.
I think the 4-3-3 flattered us. We were able to move the ball down the wings quite easily but around the box we created very little and we ran out of ideas. Fleetwood made a shooting opportunity every time they came forward.
How can you develop a real pattern of play and some attacking ideas when you can't ever get used to where your teammates will be or what runs they'll be making because you change formation every game and 2-3 times within a single game. This approach would make sense if our changes actually negated our opponent, but when do they ever. Fleetwood walked through us and we didn't walk through them. The formation change at the end, our third of the day, meant we spent the last 10 minutes of the game on the backfoot. 2-0 down. At home. Against Accrington Stanley.
LB says he improves players. Who has he improved this year? Maatsen looks a shadow of the player who made his debut. Gunther has been adequate-to-poor. Gilbey was a player of the year. Our entire midfield, Bowyer's position, have been woeful.
Jason Pearce is supposedly the club captain of a side that are seriously lacking in determination and desire. He is a bad defender and has been for some time. I don't identify with this player and he's supposed to be captain? He's no Johnnie Jackson, I tell you that.
Oshilaja looked an improvement on Pratley but he is prone to rushes of blood like the one that saw him overcommit for the goal. Neither of these players are good enough.
We know Lee is a hothead. We know he has a temper and can't control himself. I watched a video the other day of him stamping on someone's head. He even punched his own player on the pitch. The bloke can be a lunatic. And when times are bad and the team are losing, sadly that lunatic comes out. I would say I feel for the team but many of them deserve a good kicking.
I 200% reject his comments about Maddison, they are a disgrace. I can't disagree with the rest of his comments. The players today were a disgrace. And forget about tactics for a second, I can't blame him for feeling angry about how badly they are letting all of us down at the moment. No we are not set up great but we are shipping the stupidest of Sunday league goals and then giving up on 70 minutes. With players out there hiding and not showing up. They deserve just as much ire as LB.
Can't sleep, I am seething. What we saw last night was coming. Bowyer chops and changes the team so much, there is no continuity. Stanley put as many people in the defensive area as possible and broke quickly when they had the ball. It wasn't complicated tactics. Physically they were stronger and won too many 50 50 balls.
Part of the problem is we don't have enough different ways to score. The loss of Inness isn't just an issue defensively, but at the other end too. I think the defence doesn't take enough care to try to find a red shirt and often panics with clearances. The midfield is too static and it is one of the reasons Williams should be starting but he needs another busy player in there with him.
To score last night, we had to rely on our wide players beating three players in tight areas and when we had bodies in the box, we didn't try to find them quickly enough. I had to check the team sheet to see if Morgan was playing after about 25 minutes, he was being bypassed so much. If the players were not changing systems so much and having to deal with crazy tactics (admittedly more in previous games than last night) I believe they would be more cohesive. They look like a team of strangers and I think that is understandable.
I have to deal with Bowyer's comments as this is sadly just another example of what has been a constant for a while now. You make comments like he has done and you lose the dressing room. You also put fear into players and inhibit them. As previous posters have said, this is not how you manage in any walk of life. And it is certainly not how Bowyer managed when he first got the job.
He is coming out with complete rubbish. If Pratley and Watson would have been the answer last night, why were they not the answer in previous games. What killed us was conceding the first and it wasn't due to great football from them but poor play by Pearce. But if anybody thinks this is a happy camp given players constantly being dug out by the manager, they don't understand what goes on in football. Managers understandably can get angry after a game like that, but if they are to criticise, it has to be collective criticism.
The season can still be saved. But it is not going to happen with Bowyer as he is now at the helm. It is probably best for him to have some rest and reflect and if he gets another job, he will probably be a better manager for it. I think it is not time for a rushed manager appointment, but a caretaker and see how he does approach would seem sensible.
I do not believe that JJ decides the tactics or is happy with the way Bowyer is alienating the squad. It is easy to find out, and I think it is possible when you are close to things, it is easier to understand what is going wrong. If I was Sandgaard, I'd sack Bowyer and speak to JJ, maybe with Curbs or Powell or both in attendance and see what he thinks is wrong and how would he put it right. He will either give a good answer or a bad one. There is Euell who is also worth considering as a caretaker. With Euell, he can be helping out and not be in danger of losing his current job unless he does very well so there will not be any great pressure on him.
If Sandgaard sacked Bowyer before Tuesday, it would also be interesting to see how the team sets up under JJ and how it reacts. I think we are seeing unhappy and confused players and the dynamic needs to change as a matter of urgency.
It may have been individual error's that cost us last night but a lot of it is still of Bowyer's own making. The big miss was not having Pratley or Watson in the middle, the midfield desperately needed that bite.
We've barely played a settled team and formation and some real questionable lineup's have led to a lot of disjointed and shocking performance's.
When we had our starting CB pairing, Innis and Famewo, we had Pratley and Watson starting in front of them, our 2 DM which quite frankly (as most of us said on here) was completely unnecessary.
Starting Deji at CB instead of Pratley and alternating between the two for DM may well have seen one or both available last night, and Pratley was exactly what we missed in midfield.
I thought this answer from LB was very illuminating about the lack of application and leadership from the players at the moment.
Journo: "There was a moment at two-nil where chuks... it floated over him and there was nobody there. He turned around and started shouting at the rest of the team. Do you feel the attitude is there? ...Because it felt like after that, they did start to respond."
LB: "Myself and Jacko we can only say so much and we can only do so much and once they step onto the pitch then they've got to take some responsibility. They're men, take responsibility for your own actions your own performance. If you ain't getting to the level that you should be... then there's something wrong, you're gonna hide from receiving the ball or you're gonna jump out of a tackle or not hit a forward pass because you're scared of making a wrong pass. That's them, you know? We can't hold their hand all the time and place them where they should be.
"Football is split second decisions constantly for 90 minutes. So times like that when Chuks is going up for a header and nobody is there to back him up, that's called hard work, because now you have to run through that pain barrier to maybe get close to Chuks. Or you can just sit back 10-15 yards and think "Oh that's alright I'll get the next one." That's the difference. That's where you play at the top and where you play at the bottom, you have to push yourself constantly every single day. And in situations like that, you have to run the extra mile. And if you do that, then you'll score more goals, or you'll defend and you'll stop more goals. That's football. A very, very simple game. But it's hard work and if you're not prepared to work hard, you're definitely at the wrong place.
"When I say after games you can't afford to carry people, that's what I mean. You can't afford to carry one, if you're carrying 3, 4, 5, like we did today, you're not going to win games. Not a chance. And we should dig each other out more."
Comments
"I'll improve him, obviously Klopp hasn't got a scooby do. But give me six weeks".
Bowyer used to motivate and facilitate, he appears to do either now.
Anyway we are going in circles and I'm not sure if you're saying we shouldn't have signed these players or not. Everyone seemed thrilled at the time.
They chose to pay him that, which is more than 2 "league 1 average wage" players. Did they not consider they may need more players?
As for the match itself......
I thought Millar looked pretty good & was probably MOTM. Ran at players which is something we have lacked & wanted to shoot (again something we have lacked). On the other wing Smyth probably had his best game for us & again caused problems. We were unlucky to go in 1-0 down. It was a misjudgment by Pearce & it happens it football - especially in the 3rd tier. I don't blame him. Again, their 2nd goal - bloke took it really well (I wonder how many of our players would have hit it first time instead of dragging it round onto their right foot). Deji was unlucky as he had to go for the original block & was on the floor initially as he had just headed out an earlier cross. No blame on him.
Imo our main problem is in the fact that we didnt score first. Stats have shown that since our promotion season we don't lose many games once we score first & haven't won a single game once we have conceded first. One of you Bowyer apologists need to get onto the blower to him NOW and let him know as turning the latter stat around is the only way he will save his job as keeping a clean sheet ain't going to happen any time soon.
IF Bowyer is still here by the end of the month I would seriously tell him to stop changing the team around. Get a settled team & a settled formation and trust that your players can play 2 games in a week. That is the only way he/we will turn this around. Sadly I think this season is over & just glad we put that run of 6 straight wins together otherwise we seriously would be in a relegation scrap. As it is I'll be very surprised if we get back into the top 6 again this season, esp with LB as manager. Teams around us have now got 1 or 2 games in hand on us & unless a miracle happens I don't see us going on another run like we did.
When a few of us were calling for Bowyers head weeks ago people asked "well, who would you have as manager". The answer(s) were sitting on the Sky studio tonight. Managers are out there - you just have to be brave enough to ask the question
Well he deserved it today. Should have been wearing a Tutu.
I back the player.
He told you he jumped out of it cos he took a knock on a previous challenge, watch it back Bowyer he takes a couple before stepping out of one challenge.
We did not concede two goals because of Maddison. We conceded two goals AGAIN because of your team selection, tactics and management.
That was a performance devoid of anything resembling what a team needs to compete, let alone stay in contention for promotion. I’ve been reluctant to dig Bowyer out until recently but I’m not sure how much longer this can go on. Regardless of how you thought the team performed, there’s no way you make these kinds of comments without it having a detrimental effect on the squad’s spirit, the kind of which we are seeing played out in real time.
For me, Tommy’s Twitter silence right now is telling. He knows he has a decision to make
It wasn't great what Maddison did, but we were 2-0 down and beaten at that stage. That's surely more important?
That's nearly a fifth of the budget gone already
Welcome to the forum Thomas
I will say the individual criticism of players I do find makes me cringe a little, I get it's probably just his nature being the type of player he was however I think it's a risky move and likely to alienate some players. I think we all want an honest manager and sometimes players need digging out but I think some of the stuff he's come out with recently would have been better said behind closed doors or not said at all. The comment about MM's injury I'm sure was said in the spur of the moment however it doesn't reflect well and I think would have been better left unsaid personally, we all know the type of personality LB is and after some of our performances recently I can see why he's frustrated and wanted to pull players up but I think sometimes he just needs to take a deep breath and think through some of his post match comments.
That said I'm still fully behind LB, I think we're in a poor run of form but equally we are the type of team who could easily put a winning run together like we did earlier this season. Every team has a loss of form at some point and let's hope this is ours. It's worth remembering we are still in and around the top six which was always the target and we've got some big players coming back soon, as well as our new arrivals and anyone else we manage to bring in before the end of this window. LB has taken us up once before I still see no reason to lose faith he can't do it again.
I think the 4-3-3 flattered us. We were able to move the ball down the wings quite easily but around the box we created very little and we ran out of ideas. Fleetwood made a shooting opportunity every time they came forward.
How can you develop a real pattern of play and some attacking ideas when you can't ever get used to where your teammates will be or what runs they'll be making because you change formation every game and 2-3 times within a single game. This approach would make sense if our changes actually negated our opponent, but when do they ever. Fleetwood walked through us and we didn't walk through them. The formation change at the end, our third of the day, meant we spent the last 10 minutes of the game on the backfoot. 2-0 down. At home. Against Accrington Stanley.
LB says he improves players. Who has he improved this year? Maatsen looks a shadow of the player who made his debut. Gunther has been adequate-to-poor. Gilbey was a player of the year. Our entire midfield, Bowyer's position, have been woeful.
Jason Pearce is supposedly the club captain of a side that are seriously lacking in determination and desire. He is a bad defender and has been for some time. I don't identify with this player and he's supposed to be captain? He's no Johnnie Jackson, I tell you that.
Oshilaja looked an improvement on Pratley but he is prone to rushes of blood like the one that saw him overcommit for the goal. Neither of these players are good enough.
We know Lee is a hothead. We know he has a temper and can't control himself. I watched a video the other day of him stamping on someone's head. He even punched his own player on the pitch. The bloke can be a lunatic. And when times are bad and the team are losing, sadly that lunatic comes out. I would say I feel for the team but many of them deserve a good kicking.
I 200% reject his comments about Maddison, they are a disgrace. I can't disagree with the rest of his comments. The players today were a disgrace. And forget about tactics for a second, I can't blame him for feeling angry about how badly they are letting all of us down at the moment. No we are not set up great but we are shipping the stupidest of Sunday league goals and then giving up on 70 minutes. With players out there hiding and not showing up. They deserve just as much ire as LB.
Part of the problem is we don't have enough different ways to score. The loss of Inness isn't just an issue defensively, but at the other end too. I think the defence doesn't take enough care to try to find a red shirt and often panics with clearances. The midfield is too static and it is one of the reasons Williams should be starting but he needs another busy player in there with him.
To score last night, we had to rely on our wide players beating three players in tight areas and when we had bodies in the box, we didn't try to find them quickly enough. I had to check the team sheet to see if Morgan was playing after about 25 minutes, he was being bypassed so much. If the players were not changing systems so much and having to deal with crazy tactics (admittedly more in previous games than last night) I believe they would be more cohesive. They look like a team of strangers and I think that is understandable.
I have to deal with Bowyer's comments as this is sadly just another example of what has been a constant for a while now. You make comments like he has done and you lose the dressing room. You also put fear into players and inhibit them. As previous posters have said, this is not how you manage in any walk of life. And it is certainly not how Bowyer managed when he first got the job.
He is coming out with complete rubbish. If Pratley and Watson would have been the answer last night, why were they not the answer in previous games. What killed us was conceding the first and it wasn't due to great football from them but poor play by Pearce. But if anybody thinks this is a happy camp given players constantly being dug out by the manager, they don't understand what goes on in football. Managers understandably can get angry after a game like that, but if they are to criticise, it has to be collective criticism.
The season can still be saved. But it is not going to happen with Bowyer as he is now at the helm. It is probably best for him to have some rest and reflect and if he gets another job, he will probably be a better manager for it. I think it is not time for a rushed manager appointment, but a caretaker and see how he does approach would seem sensible.
I do not believe that JJ decides the tactics or is happy with the way Bowyer is alienating the squad. It is easy to find out, and I think it is possible when you are close to things, it is easier to understand what is going wrong. If I was Sandgaard, I'd sack Bowyer and speak to JJ, maybe with Curbs or Powell or both in attendance and see what he thinks is wrong and how would he put it right. He will either give a good answer or a bad one. There is Euell who is also worth considering as a caretaker. With Euell, he can be helping out and not be in danger of losing his current job unless he does very well so there will not be any great pressure on him.
If Sandgaard sacked Bowyer before Tuesday, it would also be interesting to see how the team sets up under JJ and how it reacts. I think we are seeing unhappy and confused players and the dynamic needs to change as a matter of urgency.
We've barely played a settled team and formation and some real questionable lineup's have led to a lot of disjointed and shocking performance's.
When we had our starting CB pairing, Innis and Famewo, we had Pratley and Watson starting in front of them, our 2 DM which quite frankly (as most of us said on here) was completely unnecessary.
Starting Deji at CB instead of Pratley and alternating between the two for DM may well have seen one or both available last night, and Pratley was exactly what we missed in midfield.