Can someone remind me what Bowyer said about the fans after MKD
Something like they didn’t get behind the team and create any atmosphere to motivate the players. Seemed to not be able to work out that was because there was only 2000 sat far and wide from each other which made creating a maelstrom of support pretty difficult. Although I may be thinking of a different game.
Can someone remind me what Bowyer said about the fans after MKD
Something like they didn’t get behind the team and create any atmosphere to motivate the players. Seemed to not be able to work out that was because there was only 2000 sat far and wide from each other which made creating a maelstrom of support pretty difficult. Although I may be thinking of a different game.
No you’re right. He said he was disappointed with the atmosphere and the players could have done with it.
When Bowyer first took charge I was absolutely shocked by how calm and measured, respectful and polite he was whenever interviewed. Perhaps surprised would be a better way of describing it. He was all about “the journey” and how he was proud of his players and they always gave everything. That Lee Bowyer seems to have vanished and we now have what I originally expected. A bit of a hot head and someone who speaks and acts before he perhaps should. Something has definitely changed.
To try and add some clarity to the point. Regardless if you think LB has lost the dressing room or if he is losing the plot or not. Surely it is really obvious that some of his team selections have been bizarre to say the least. After the second half versus Wimbledon why would any manager not start the same team that finished that game ? Their tails were up and confidence would have been high. Instead he changed it all back and without doubt set a decline in form since then. I have said before that he seems to be overthinking everything and hopefully going back to 2cgames a week will give him less time to tinker and worry about how many players he needs to play out of position to stop the threat from our opponents. Just pick your chosen starting 11 and play the all the time ffs
Bowyer is a young relatively inexperienced manager who hasn’t had expectation but has put up with an awful lot of off the field ownership issues. The latter has disappeared and now there is expectation aplenty. It’s his first real on field crisis and he’s got nothing behind him in experience to fall back on. The stress is starting to show. Perhaps he needs a bit of on field luck now to turn it around, but that’s fairly hard to come by. He’s definitely at a crossroads and at this point I wouldn’t like to bet how it will go. I’m hoping his undoubted grit and will to win come through for him and us.
End of January is when I said I'd know how I feel as to whether Bowyer can get us promoted. If we don't win this month, which I can see happening... I'll be a paid up member of Bowyer out. Another thing that'll put me there is a single slagging off publicly of any other player of ours
I just watched the interview and I am with Lee... He explained what was going on and it makes sense to me, he's not go the right squad as it stands, he doesn't have the luxury of being able to pick the right players because of the cap, so the players standards have dropped, and no one is communicating or "digging each other out" as he puts it...
These players want pampering and it doesn't happen in a lee bowyer team... he will keep going the way he has been and he will either get the turnaround he wants or not, we are a very difficult position with this salary cap, we will be very lucky to get up this year I think, and we will have to invest in under 21 year olds who if we can keep for long enough we may be able to get up prior to them being sold off like Alfie.
Whole different set of skills needed to manage with a cap... I think it's league one for us next year and I think if we stick with Lee he will clean out most of the squad and get players in that are much more in the Bowyer mold.
Maddison is a classic example of a player suited by a certain club, Peterborough scored loads of goals conceded just as many and never made the play off's, he then went to a team in free fall last season and didn't get a game , I wonder why, he play's in different coloured boots made by two different manufcturers in league fucking two, who the fuck does he think he is, I was never wanking over him when we signed him.We all know the type of player Bowyer signs and this was never going to be a match made in heaven I get the feeling it was a desperation signing whilst trying to form form some kind of squad against the clock.
There is now way he will be sacked before October at the earliest whether he wals is another matter but I believe he has earned the right to a full summer window with his hands tied behind his back ( although salary cap is a exception). Don't forget when Powell came in we were in the play off positions and then went into complete free fall that season, he was given the summer to have a complete clearout. He want's to play football from the back, Innes and Famewo can do this without them the other centre halves can't , he knows how he wants to play he now has to find the players that can play that way.
When Bowyer first took charge I was absolutely shocked by how calm and measured, respectful and polite he was whenever interviewed. Perhaps surprised would be a better way of describing it. He was all about “the journey” and how he was proud of his players and they always gave everything. That Lee Bowyer seems to have vanished and we now have what I originally expected. A bit of a hot head and someone who speaks and acts before he perhaps should. Something has definitely changed.
Exactly this. Two examples of changes of late
1) Bowyer many times used to say how he leant from Venables I think that it is no use having a go at players straight after the game when tensions are high and that its best to go through everything Monday once the dust has settled and emotions are not high.
2) I remember a Lyle Taylor interview/pod cast saying that Lee Bowyer was a great man manager the total opposite to what people think. Said he was not a massive shouter was calm but got his point across but honest. Said he could only re-call once he had lost it.
So what has changed so drastically to get to the point we are at now? I am assuming it is considerable and maybe would make sense to why he has changed.
I am still in the Bowyer in camp he deserves loyalty back that he has shown us but he cant afford any more comments like what we see Friday regarding MM injury.
I think this will all boil down does TS know the details and side with Bowyer maybe being prepared to write this season off to get rid of the bad apple or apples in the summer with Bowyer given the chance to have a clear summer without his hands tied behind his back to allow a fresh recruitment with players that can and will do as Bowyer wants.
If Bauer and Pratley hadn't scored lucky goals in League One last time Bowyer would already be gone because we wouldn't have gone up with the team we had the season after as Duch was still owner. You can tell Bowyer has never managed before, no shape, negative tactics from the start, playing Pearce (worst defender and captain I've ever seen at this club), all creative players on the bench and blaming everyone but himself. Never really rated Bowyer as a manager and now we are playing the worst football I've seen since before the Yann era.
If Bauer and Pratley hadn't scored lucky goals in League One last time Bowyer would already be gone because we wouldn't have gone up with the team we had the season after as Duch was still owner. You can tell Bowyer has never managed before, no shape, negative tactics from the start, playing Pearce (worst defender and captain I've ever seen at this club), all creative players on the bench and blaming everyone but himself. Never really rated Bowyer as a manager and now we are playing the worst football I've seen since before the Yann era.
It appears he is to scared to lose matches as for the first time he now has someone to answer too. However, their is still time for him to change before we change the manager, albeit I do feel its to late
For every Alex Ferguson there are about 100,000 managers that aren’t Alex Ferguson. Because one manager with a different skill set, at a different club, in a different era, under different circumstances did well is absolutely not argument to stick with a manager where none of those circumstances exist.
My point is even the best of Managers cant keep rebuilding a team from virtually scratch every year and for there to be success every time
Eventually its going to get to the point where they'll fail because they're not a miracle worker
I'm not going to disagree that it isn't difficult to do so but LB was at pains to say that this was his squad.
I've said previously how we've used 30 players and that it is impossible to do so when you make so many changes. I also highlighted that when, under SCP, in the main, we used just 15 players.
I will now take this one step further and demonstrate how, with the right transfers, it is possible to bring in a lot of new faces and be successful as SCP did - those in bold came in during 2011/12 with their starts in brackets:
Hamer (41) Solly (44) Taylor (38) Morrison (45) Wiggins (45) Green (25) Hollands (43) Stephens (28) Jackson (35) Kermogant (33) Wright-Phillips (41)
The only other players to start 10 or more games were Wagstaff (19), Cort (10), Hayes (12) and Pritchard (10).
So, 8 of the most used starting XI only came to us that season and only Solly, Jackson, Wright-Phillips and Wagstaff of the most used 15 were with us the previous season. That's 11 of 15 brand new faces and we ended up with 101 points.
Of our most used 15 this season 7 - Amos, Matthews, Doughty, Morgan, Purrington, Foster-Cakey and Pratley - were all with us last season.
Which all tells us that SCP knew what team he team he wanted, what system he wanted to play and didn't overcomplicate things by chopping and changing for the sake of doing that.
If Bauer and Pratley hadn't scored lucky goals in League One last time Bowyer would already be gone because we wouldn't have gone up with the team we had the season after as Duch was still owner. You can tell Bowyer has never managed before, no shape, negative tactics from the start, playing Pearce (worst defender and captain I've ever seen at this club), all creative players on the bench and blaming everyone but himself. Never really rated Bowyer as a manager and now we are playing the worst football I've seen since before the Yann era.
behave. That is just ridiculous and re-writing history.
The end of 2018/19 we was playing some off the best football for may years and was in great form. We went up and deserved it BECAUSE of Bowyer and his tactics.
Last week everyone was moaning at Bowyer for not starting Williams. But looking at the preview for tomorrow night, no one has him in their team, (except Doucher, who has him playing centre midfield 🤪😂) Are we now saying Bowyer was right not to start him? Or has Bows ruined his confidence by playing a kid who beats a player and then has a shot at goal? Maddison was also a favourite to start. How pathetic was his performance? I can’t believe that some are suggesting that jumping out of a tackle like he did was in someway understandable. He should have won that tackle. No wonder no other club wanted him - even though he was a free. I see that some are suggesting that this is the team Bows wanted because he signed them. You cannot be serious. I keep asking which of OUR players would you like to see starting in the Championship if we get there. No one has answered because at best there is a couple who may make the squad. This is the first season where we have had to make up the squad with players who’s suitability was that they were available for nothing. Not because they fitted a plan and had the character we wanted. TS changed that, but unfortunately not early enough. To get into the playoffs we need at least two more players in and our centre halves back playing. We also need some stability at the club. Chucking the management team out in January would be very foolish IMO.
Oh, and for those that are suggesting Jacko to replace him - he is the defence coach!
Maddison is a classic example of a player suited by a certain club, Peterborough scored loads of goals conceded just as many and never made the play off's, he then went to a team in free fall last season and didn't get a game , I wonder why, he play's in different coloured boots made by two different manufcturers in league fucking two, who the fuck does he think he is, I was never wanking over him when we signed him.We all know the type of player Bowyer signs and this was never going to be a match made in heaven I get the feeling it was a desperation signing whilst trying to form form some kind of squad against the clock.
There is now way he will be sacked before October at the earliest whether he wals is another matter but I believe he has earned the right to a full summer window with his hands tied behind his back ( although salary cap is a exception). Don't forget when Powell came in we were in the play off positions and then went into complete free fall that season, he was given the summer to have a complete clearout. He want's to play football from the back, Innes and Famewo can do this without them the other centre halves can't , he knows how he wants to play he now has to find the players that can play that way.
Bowyer signed Maddison and therefore knew what he would be getting. We scouted him, we tried to buy him before.
With regards to his boots, he's wearing boots from the same manufacturer, even the same model, just different colour codes. If that works for him I have no complaints. He's a class player, but is not defensive and never has been. In the game for us where Maddison had been given the free role behind the strikers he was linking up play, spraying passes about and had a stormer. Then against Plymouth he showed he can be an impact player, but that's difficult to do when everyone around you is demoralised and had apparently given up. If the players are giving up before 60 minutes are up, Bowyer has a far more monumental issue to resolve. The player moral is clearly not in the good place he keeps telling us it is.
If Bowyer has to have the right players, he doesn't improve players, they improve his team. A sign of a manager that needs heavy funding to get a job done. That's fine if you have an owner willing to spend millions and when you're not in a league with financial limitations on salaries, but in our current position Bowyer cannot buy his way out of this league. He has to manage his way out of it and that includes managing his players.
Finally any player will improve with a bit of game time. Bowyer can't be selling his ability to improve players off of those ones.
If Bauer and Pratley hadn't scored lucky goals in League One last time Bowyer would already be gone because we wouldn't have gone up with the team we had the season after as Duch was still owner. You can tell Bowyer has never managed before, no shape, negative tactics from the start, playing Pearce (worst defender and captain I've ever seen at this club), all creative players on the bench and blaming everyone but himself. Never really rated Bowyer as a manager and now we are playing the worst football I've seen since before the Yann era.
behave. That is just ridiculous and re-writing history.
The end of 2018/19 we was playing some off the best football for may years and was in great form. We went up and deserved it BECAUSE of Bowyer and his tactics.
Agreed, Doncaster came at us in the replay and it was a fantastic game of football. We held our nerve to win the shoot out having drawn on aggregate.
Against Sunderland we scored 3 goals. Admittedly one was in the wrong net, but we never looked troubled by them and won deservedly coming back from a set back of our own making. Probably the time Golfie refers to when he says about us coming back from a goal down to win...
If Bauer and Pratley hadn't scored lucky goals in League One last time Bowyer would already be gone because we wouldn't have gone up with the team we had the season after as Duch was still owner. You can tell Bowyer has never managed before, no shape, negative tactics from the start, playing Pearce (worst defender and captain I've ever seen at this club), all creative players on the bench and blaming everyone but himself. Never really rated Bowyer as a manager and now we are playing the worst football I've seen since before the Yann era.
behave. That is just ridiculous and re-writing history.
The end of 2018/19 we was playing some off the best football for may years and was in great form. We went up and deserved it BECAUSE of Bowyer and his tactics.
Oh be real, too many fake people on this site. It's league one jesus christ, the football level is shocking, you don't have to play that well to get out of it yet we look like a sunday league team on Friday night. Not sure whether the pitch is too big for league one players or we simply have no shape at all but we don't sustain attacks due to this. Not denying we played some nice football last time in league one mainly because of Beilek, Cullen and Aribo, creative players! If you see my statement I said, 'now we are playing the worst football I've seen since before the Yann era.' because we have nothing in midfield due to Bowyer playing JFC, Gilbey, Watson (who offer nothing going forward and you could even say in defense seeing how we're conceding 2 a game atm) instead of Maddison and Williams who might be able to pick a lock in a defense. I don't get how people can defend wanting to go up and then come straight back down again or be happy with a bottom half finish in the Championship like cmon seriously sometimes people need to take their emotion out of this and look at it for what it is. We have the backing of money now so get an experienced man in who can take us to the next level and further, you gotta be ruthless in this game.
I still feel it odd that the thing that wound Bowyer up most was Maddison jumping out of a tackle, as it didn't cost us anything as we were 2-0 down anyway
It's akin to publicly slagging off a batsman (say KP) for getting out to an aggressive shot for 15, when nobody else got more than 10.
I wonder how many times Bowyer has had that conversation privately with Maddison previously for him to be so direct in public.
It's a throwaway comment made out of exasperation and frustration rather than genuine malice in my view. He shouldn't have said it in public I suppose but not one of those players in that dressing room can be in any doubt now that the tepid shitshow they produced last night is unacceptable.
If we get a proper reaction from them and beat Rochdale to get the truck back on the tracks well done Lee. If we don't then it says more about the poor attitude of gutless players than Lee's poor management in my opinion.
The players have to take responsibility too. No manager could legislate for Pearce's cock up. I'm not intending to dig Pearce out because, like Bowyer, he has been here through most of the Roland et al shitshow and remains well in credit for me. Bowyer has held his hands up about getting his substitutions wrong last night. Pearce, as Club Captain, should have done the same privately at least in the dressing room. He may well have done so already and if so good lad.
All that said Accrington Stanley deserve some credit. They did a job on us and deserved their win.
If that is correct, he is making a few of them. Why is this not happening with other managers?
For every Alex Ferguson there are about 100,000 managers that aren’t Alex Ferguson. Because one manager with a different skill set, at a different club, in a different era, under different circumstances did well is absolutely not argument to stick with a manager where none of those circumstances exist.
My point is even the best of Managers cant keep rebuilding a team from virtually scratch every year and for there to be success every time
Eventually its going to get to the point where they'll fail because they're not a miracle worker
I'm not going to disagree that it isn't difficult to do so but LB was at pains to say that this was his squad.
I've said previously how we've used 30 players and that it is impossible to do so when you make so many changes. I also highlighted that when, under SCP, in the main, we used just 15 players.
I will now take this one step further and demonstrate how, with the right transfers, it is possible to bring in a lot of new faces and be successful as SCP did - those in bold came in during 2011/12 with their starts in brackets:
Hamer (41) Solly (44) Taylor (38) Morrison (45) Wiggins (45) Green (25) Hollands (43) Stephens (28) Jackson (35) Kermogant (33) Wright-Phillips (41)
The only other players to start 10 or more games were Wagstaff (19), Cort (10), Hayes (12) and Pritchard (10).
So, 8 of the most used starting XI only came to us that season and only Solly, Jackson, Wright-Phillips and Wagstaff of the most used 15 were with us the previous season. That's 11 of 15 brand new faces and we ended up with 101 points.
Of our most used 15 this season 7 - Amos, Matthews, Doughty, Morgan, Purrington, Foster-Cakey and Pratley - were all with us last season.
Which all tells us that SCP knew what team he team he wanted, what system he wanted to play and didn't overcomplicate things by chopping and changing for the sake of doing that.
Like I said on the other thread, wouldn't the starts have been similar to Lee's 2018/19 team?
If Lee wasn't unfortunate with injuries and had players that could play the full games or be trusted to, he wouldn't be chopping and changing as much, he has already proven this. Most of this squad are a hangover from RD where we were picking up scraps
I think a lot of fans don't give Powell the credit he deserves for the business he did that season. I think awesome is not too strong a word to describe it. 100 plus points - what a season.
No way would Sir Chris be acting like Bowyer is now.
If Bauer and Pratley hadn't scored lucky goals in League One last time Bowyer would already be gone because we wouldn't have gone up with the team we had the season after as Duch was still owner. You can tell Bowyer has never managed before, no shape, negative tactics from the start, playing Pearce (worst defender and captain I've ever seen at this club), all creative players on the bench and blaming everyone but himself. Never really rated Bowyer as a manager and now we are playing the worst football I've seen since before the Yann era.
behave. That is just ridiculous and re-writing history.
The end of 2018/19 we was playing some off the best football for may years and was in great form. We went up and deserved it BECAUSE of Bowyer and his tactics.
Oh be real, too many fake people on this site. It's league one jesus christ, the football level is shocking, you don't have to play that well to get out of it yet we look like a sunday league team on Friday night. Not sure whether the pitch is too big for league one players or we simply have no shape at all but we don't sustain attacks due to this. Not denying we played some nice football last time in league one mainly because of Beilek, Cullen and Aribo, creative players! If you see my statement I said, 'now we are playing the worst football I've seen since before the Yann era.' because we have nothing in midfield due to Bowyer playing JFC, Gilbey, Watson (who offer nothing going forward and you could even say in defense seeing how we're conceding 2 a game atm) instead of Maddison and Williams who might be able to pick a lock in a defense. I don't get how people can defend wanting to go up and then come straight back down again or be happy with a bottom half finish in the Championship like cmon seriously sometimes people need to take their emotion out of this and look at it for what it is. We have the backing of money now so get an experienced man in who can take us to the next level and further, you gotta be ruthless in this game.
Not sure how my post makes me fake but never mind. You indicated from your post that we only went up because of 2 lucky goals, this is what I replied to and is plainly not true something you backed up in the next post stating we played good football.
You are right last time we had Beilek, Cullen and Aribo all better players than what we have now in them positions but more importantly they worked very hard and earned the right to play. This is something we are not doing at the moment regardless of who is playing we are losing the battles and if you do that you will not win more games than you lose. To simply say its league one its not that hard is naive and arrogant. Look at Friday night one team played as a team and worked hard one did not. This is the problem and something Bowyer or a new manager and the players need to fix as without that nothing will change.
I think a team like us needs a few different outlets to score. Ideally a sharp striker, a threat from set pieces, goals from longer shots and the ability to play at pace. Different teams will pose different problems, but with our centre half injuries we have lost aerial set piece dominance, we don't have the goals from shots and what you think we can do is play at pace, but we can't even do that.
We often judge passing by completion, but I feel the first touch throughout the team is generally rubbish. We can't ping sharp balls against pressing defenders. I blame the receiving players more often than the passers. We did it well against Wimbledon in the second half, but that may also have been down to the poor nature of their defence.
For every Alex Ferguson there are about 100,000 managers that aren’t Alex Ferguson. Because one manager with a different skill set, at a different club, in a different era, under different circumstances did well is absolutely not argument to stick with a manager where none of those circumstances exist.
My point is even the best of Managers cant keep rebuilding a team from virtually scratch every year and for there to be success every time
Eventually its going to get to the point where they'll fail because they're not a miracle worker
I'm not going to disagree that it isn't difficult to do so but LB was at pains to say that this was his squad.
I've said previously how we've used 30 players and that it is impossible to do so when you make so many changes. I also highlighted that when, under SCP, in the main, we used just 15 players.
I will now take this one step further and demonstrate how, with the right transfers, it is possible to bring in a lot of new faces and be successful as SCP did - those in bold came in during 2011/12 with their starts in brackets:
Hamer (41) Solly (44) Taylor (38) Morrison (45) Wiggins (45) Green (25) Hollands (43) Stephens (28) Jackson (35) Kermogant (33) Wright-Phillips (41)
The only other players to start 10 or more games were Wagstaff (19), Cort (10), Hayes (12) and Pritchard (10).
So, 8 of the most used starting XI only came to us that season and only Solly, Jackson, Wright-Phillips and Wagstaff of the most used 15 were with us the previous season. That's 11 of 15 brand new faces and we ended up with 101 points.
Of our most used 15 this season 7 - Amos, Matthews, Doughty, Morgan, Purrington, Foster-Cakey and Pratley - were all with us last season.
Which all tells us that SCP knew what team he team he wanted, what system he wanted to play and didn't overcomplicate things by chopping and changing for the sake of doing that.
Like I said on the other thread, wouldn't the starts have been similar to Lee's 2018/19 team?
If Lee wasn't unfortunate with injuries and had players that could play the full games or be trusted to, he wouldn't be chopping and changing as much, he has already proven this. Most of this squad are a hangover from RD where we were picking up scraps
For the whole of that season 27 different players started. After just 20 games, we've had 29 start already.
What we didn't have though is any number of players playing out of position e.g. right backs playing at left back for the sake of it. That has nothing whatsoever to do with injuries.
For every Alex Ferguson there are about 100,000 managers that aren’t Alex Ferguson. Because one manager with a different skill set, at a different club, in a different era, under different circumstances did well is absolutely not argument to stick with a manager where none of those circumstances exist.
My point is even the best of Managers cant keep rebuilding a team from virtually scratch every year and for there to be success every time
Eventually its going to get to the point where they'll fail because they're not a miracle worker
I'm not going to disagree that it isn't difficult to do so but LB was at pains to say that this was his squad.
I've said previously how we've used 30 players and that it is impossible to do so when you make so many changes. I also highlighted that when, under SCP, in the main, we used just 15 players.
I will now take this one step further and demonstrate how, with the right transfers, it is possible to bring in a lot of new faces and be successful as SCP did - those in bold came in during 2011/12 with their starts in brackets:
Hamer (41) Solly (44) Taylor (38) Morrison (45) Wiggins (45) Green (25) Hollands (43) Stephens (28) Jackson (35) Kermogant (33) Wright-Phillips (41)
The only other players to start 10 or more games were Wagstaff (19), Cort (10), Hayes (12) and Pritchard (10).
So, 8 of the most used starting XI only came to us that season and only Solly, Jackson, Wright-Phillips and Wagstaff of the most used 15 were with us the previous season. That's 11 of 15 brand new faces and we ended up with 101 points.
Of our most used 15 this season 7 - Amos, Matthews, Doughty, Morgan, Purrington, Foster-Cakey and Pratley - were all with us last season.
Which all tells us that SCP knew what team he team he wanted, what system he wanted to play and didn't overcomplicate things by chopping and changing for the sake of doing that.
Like I said on the other thread, wouldn't the starts have been similar to Lee's 2018/19 team?
If Lee wasn't unfortunate with injuries and had players that could play the full games or be trusted to, he wouldn't be chopping and changing as much, he has already proven this. Most of this squad are a hangover from RD where we were picking up scraps
For the whole of that season 27 different players started. After just 20 games, we've had 29 start already.
What we didn't have though is any number of players playing out of position e.g. right backs playing at left back for the sake of it. That has nothing whatsoever to do with injuries.
Not entirely true. Losing both first choice CBs was a huge blow, and then Doughty being injured robbed us of the tactic the whoke squad was designed for - a strong reliable counter-attacking unit. Losing Shinnie AS WELL then took away the best playmaker we had, which with Gilbey being injured/pants basically cost us the "attack" part of "counter attack," if Maddison is just not going to be trusted.
Not saying that Bowyer has not made mistakes because he very much has. None of this relates to/excuses his poor leadership and man management. Playing a right back on the left and reluctance to play an actual creative link up man (Williams/Maddison/either/both) are on him. But he's definitely had some very bad luck with the timing and severity of injuries - the questions about training methods and their role in this is a valid one mind you.
No reference to the public criticism of players and fans. Where is this happening at other clubs?
If you are talking about Peter Varney's statement, I doubt very much whether he condones it at all and who knows he may well have spoken to Bowyer to give him some fatherly advice but he's not going to draw attention to it in his statement though is he. He's majoring on the need to give Bowyer support and the reasons to do so.
For every Alex Ferguson there are about 100,000 managers that aren’t Alex Ferguson. Because one manager with a different skill set, at a different club, in a different era, under different circumstances did well is absolutely not argument to stick with a manager where none of those circumstances exist.
My point is even the best of Managers cant keep rebuilding a team from virtually scratch every year and for there to be success every time
Eventually its going to get to the point where they'll fail because they're not a miracle worker
I'm not going to disagree that it isn't difficult to do so but LB was at pains to say that this was his squad.
I've said previously how we've used 30 players and that it is impossible to do so when you make so many changes. I also highlighted that when, under SCP, in the main, we used just 15 players.
I will now take this one step further and demonstrate how, with the right transfers, it is possible to bring in a lot of new faces and be successful as SCP did - those in bold came in during 2011/12 with their starts in brackets:
Hamer (41) Solly (44) Taylor (38) Morrison (45) Wiggins (45) Green (25) Hollands (43) Stephens (28) Jackson (35) Kermogant (33) Wright-Phillips (41)
The only other players to start 10 or more games were Wagstaff (19), Cort (10), Hayes (12) and Pritchard (10).
So, 8 of the most used starting XI only came to us that season and only Solly, Jackson, Wright-Phillips and Wagstaff of the most used 15 were with us the previous season. That's 11 of 15 brand new faces and we ended up with 101 points.
Of our most used 15 this season 7 - Amos, Matthews, Doughty, Morgan, Purrington, Foster-Cakey and Pratley - were all with us last season.
Which all tells us that SCP knew what team he team he wanted, what system he wanted to play and didn't overcomplicate things by chopping and changing for the sake of doing that.
Like I said on the other thread, wouldn't the starts have been similar to Lee's 2018/19 team?
If Lee wasn't unfortunate with injuries and had players that could play the full games or be trusted to, he wouldn't be chopping and changing as much, he has already proven this. Most of this squad are a hangover from RD where we were picking up scraps
For the whole of that season 27 different players started. After just 20 games, we've had 29 start already.
What we didn't have though is any number of players playing out of position e.g. right backs playing at left back for the sake of it. That has nothing whatsoever to do with injuries.
It is a result of having three of our best players out and having to find a way to fit capable players in the team, Bowyer did what people said, he played players where they should play and they were pants. It's not his fault professional football players make amateur mistakes
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These players want pampering and it doesn't happen in a lee bowyer team... he will keep going the way he has been and he will either get the turnaround he wants or not, we are a very difficult position with this salary cap, we will be very lucky to get up this year I think, and we will have to invest in under 21 year olds who if we can keep for long enough we may be able to get up prior to them being sold off like Alfie.
Whole different set of skills needed to manage with a cap... I think it's league one for us next year and I think if we stick with Lee he will clean out most of the squad and get players in that are much more in the Bowyer mold.
Exactly this. Two examples of changes of late
1) Bowyer many times used to say how he leant from Venables I think that it is no use having a go at players straight after the game when tensions are high and that its best to go through everything Monday once the dust has settled and emotions are not high.
2) I remember a Lyle Taylor interview/pod cast saying that Lee Bowyer was a great man manager the total opposite to what people think. Said he was not a massive shouter was calm but got his point across but honest. Said he could only re-call once he had lost it.
So what has changed so drastically to get to the point we are at now? I am assuming it is considerable and maybe would make sense to why he has changed.
I am still in the Bowyer in camp he deserves loyalty back that he has shown us but he cant afford any more comments like what we see Friday regarding MM injury.
I think this will all boil down does TS know the details and side with Bowyer maybe being prepared to write this season off to get rid of the bad apple or apples in the summer with Bowyer given the chance to have a clear summer without his hands tied behind his back to allow a fresh recruitment with players that can and will do as Bowyer wants.
I've said previously how we've used 30 players and that it is impossible to do so when you make so many changes. I also highlighted that when, under SCP, in the main, we used just 15 players.
I will now take this one step further and demonstrate how, with the right transfers, it is possible to bring in a lot of new faces and be successful as SCP did - those in bold came in during 2011/12 with their starts in brackets:
Hamer (41)
Solly (44)
Taylor (38)
Morrison (45)
Wiggins (45)
Green (25)
Hollands (43)
Stephens (28)
Jackson (35)
Kermogant (33)
Wright-Phillips (41)
The only other players to start 10 or more games were Wagstaff (19), Cort (10), Hayes (12) and Pritchard (10).
So, 8 of the most used starting XI only came to us that season and only Solly, Jackson, Wright-Phillips and Wagstaff of the most used 15 were with us the previous season. That's 11 of 15 brand new faces and we ended up with 101 points.
Of our most used 15 this season 7 - Amos, Matthews, Doughty, Morgan, Purrington, Foster-Cakey and Pratley - were all with us last season.
Which all tells us that SCP knew what team he team he wanted, what system he wanted to play and didn't overcomplicate things by chopping and changing for the sake of doing that.
The end of 2018/19 we was playing some off the best football for may years and was in great form. We went up and deserved it BECAUSE of Bowyer and his tactics.
Are we now saying Bowyer was right not to start him? Or has Bows ruined his confidence by playing a kid who beats a player and then has a shot at goal?
Maddison was also a favourite to start. How pathetic was his performance? I can’t believe that some are suggesting that jumping out of a tackle like he did was in someway understandable. He should have won that tackle. No wonder no other club wanted him - even though he was a free.
I see that some are suggesting that this is the team Bows wanted because he signed them. You cannot be serious. I keep asking which of OUR players would you like to see starting in the Championship if we get there. No one has answered because at best there is a couple who may make the squad. This is the first season where we have had to make up the squad with players who’s suitability was that they were available for nothing. Not because they fitted a plan and had the character we wanted. TS changed that, but unfortunately not early enough.
To get into the playoffs we need at least two more players in and our centre halves back playing. We also need some stability at the club. Chucking the management team out in January would be very foolish IMO.
With regards to his boots, he's wearing boots from the same manufacturer, even the same model, just different colour codes. If that works for him I have no complaints. He's a class player, but is not defensive and never has been. In the game for us where Maddison had been given the free role behind the strikers he was linking up play, spraying passes about and had a stormer. Then against Plymouth he showed he can be an impact player, but that's difficult to do when everyone around you is demoralised and had apparently given up. If the players are giving up before 60 minutes are up, Bowyer has a far more monumental issue to resolve. The player moral is clearly not in the good place he keeps telling us it is.
If Bowyer has to have the right players, he doesn't improve players, they improve his team. A sign of a manager that needs heavy funding to get a job done. That's fine if you have an owner willing to spend millions and when you're not in a league with financial limitations on salaries, but in our current position Bowyer cannot buy his way out of this league. He has to manage his way out of it and that includes managing his players.
Finally any player will improve with a bit of game time. Bowyer can't be selling his ability to improve players off of those ones.
Against Sunderland we scored 3 goals. Admittedly one was in the wrong net, but we never looked troubled by them and won deservedly coming back from a set back of our own making. Probably the time Golfie refers to when he says about us coming back from a goal down to win...
If Lee wasn't unfortunate with injuries and had players that could play the full games or be trusted to, he wouldn't be chopping and changing as much, he has already proven this. Most of this squad are a hangover from RD where we were picking up scraps
No way would Sir Chris be acting like Bowyer is now.
Not sure how my post makes me fake but never mind. You indicated from your post that we only went up because of 2 lucky goals, this is what I replied to and is plainly not true something you backed up in the next post stating we played good football.
You are right last time we had Beilek, Cullen and Aribo all better players than what we have now in them positions but more importantly they worked very hard and earned the right to play. This is something we are not doing at the moment regardless of who is playing we are losing the battles and if you do that you will not win more games than you lose. To simply say its league one its not that hard is naive and arrogant. Look at Friday night one team played as a team and worked hard one did not. This is the problem and something Bowyer or a new manager and the players need to fix as without that nothing will change.
We often judge passing by completion, but I feel the first touch throughout the team is generally rubbish. We can't ping sharp balls against pressing defenders. I blame the receiving players more often than the passers. We did it well against Wimbledon in the second half, but that may also have been down to the poor nature of their defence.
What we didn't have though is any number of players playing out of position e.g. right backs playing at left back for the sake of it. That has nothing whatsoever to do with injuries.
Not saying that Bowyer has not made mistakes because he very much has. None of this relates to/excuses his poor leadership and man management. Playing a right back on the left and reluctance to play an actual creative link up man (Williams/Maddison/either/both) are on him. But he's definitely had some very bad luck with the timing and severity of injuries - the questions about training methods and their role in this is a valid one mind you.