All the Man U fans that wanted Olly sacked two months ago (the vast majority) have gone very quiet in the last few weeks. Turns out he might not be completely out of his depth and he might actually have a clue after all...
Did he play Rashford at right back? Did he say he didn’t care if Fernandes had sustained a serious injury?
Let’s be honest, Manchester United’s form has not reached the depths that we’ve managed to plumb over the past couple of months and I doubt Solskjaer’s win % is as low as Bowyer’s in the past 18 months (with a relegation thrown in).
Bowyer got a pass from pretty much all of our fans for some of the dreadful on the field performances and poor runs since Wembley because he was working under crazy circumstances. Eventually those passes run out.
Anyway, I think despite the thousands of words written on Bowyer’s future on this forum (50% of them by me!) it’s moot - I don’t think Sandgaard will sack Bowyer for on the field stuff this season pretty much regardless.
Around the time of Portsmouth away Bowyer was the best thing since sliced bread. Two months later....... Perhaps managers should be given 3 month rollover contracts.
I get where you are coming from but performances were tergid, even in that run of games we didn't win many of them clearly. Everyone could see the results were better than the performances. We all accepted that for dozens of reasons that don't need going over again.
In the 11 games since the international break, when even Bowyer himself said we would be better for having time on the training ground, we have been total garbage for all bar about 120 minutes of football.
In probably half those 11 games we have dropped points because of bizarre selections, tactics, substitutes and tantrums.
While I agree we shouldn't expect to beat anyone, taking 5 points from games against Accrington, Rochdale, Swindon, Plymouth, Burton, MK Dons, Gillingham and Shrewsbury is totally unacceptable no matter how you try and spin it.
Collectively, fans are a different breed from when I started going in the 70's. A different generation of course. Here's my issue. A club wants to bring a new manager in. Mr X has has had a successful period elsewhere and is deemed the man for the job. After 15 games he's won 2 and he is given the heave ho, in part due to pressure from fans. He then gets sacked. And so it goes on.
Football managers have been sacked for performances as long as there have been managers. Very few managers, at any club, are successful for a long period and leave on a high.
Charlton chopped and changed manager between Seed and Lennie, not at the post Curbs rate, but then we had two managers for a whole generation.
I was 3 when Lennie got the job, I was 27 when Curbs left. That is far from common.
Ultimately it is far more important that we have a great owner than anything on the pitch this season. I agree with that but what I don't understand is why a manager should be given a free hit. There is no point listing every strange decision/behaviour Bowyer has displayed this season, they are there for all to see.
We have posters saying they agree he is making weird calls but he is in credit. He should not be making weird calls or digging out players. When you need players running through brick walls for you, that is when you see the results of poor management. When you have players afraid to express themselves that is when you see poor management too.
My advice to Sandgaard is to get Roddy to make some subtle enquires as to what is going on in the dressing room. Any players leaving the club would be a good starting point for a frank discussion, if they are willing to say anything. If/when that opportunity comes, don't waste it.
I categorically don’t want Bowyer replaced at this point. I think that would be ridiculous and very counter productive. What I want between now and the end of the season is to see things turned around on and off the pitch regardless of whether that leads to a promotion or not. There has to be from now on a turn around enough for me as a lowly supporter to feel confident that Bowyer is the man to lead us next season in a promotion campaign. I’m sure Mr.Sandgaard feels similar. A continuation of what we currently have won’t be good enough for me not to want a change in the summer. It’s in your own hands Lee. Make a fist of it.
My Caveat is Lee Bowyer should be Manager until the end of season and then a decision should be made in the best interests of CAFC.
Bowyer has become the tinker man. An A to Z tinker man. Smyth starting as a RWB; it didn't work. Matthews as a LB; it didn't work. Maatsen as a RMF; it didn't work. Bogle starting games, it didn't work. Maddison influencing a game and then not getting on against Hull, it didn't work. Millar is a wide man on the right or left why in first half was he in the middle. It didn't work. Williams and Maddison being slagged off in public, did that work ? I would say no especially with Marcus. Etc, etc.
Aneke playing as a Number 9, and not a number 10. Of course that worked. In League1 it was a no brainer. I said on CL 18 months ago Chuks was an old fashion number 9 and centre forward.
Losing Inniss and Famewo has been a massive blow and I feel for Bowyer in that respect but in football you have to come up with a solution when you are a manager. Whether in park football or Pro football, you have to out think the other guy.
Why is Lee being making so many poor calls since the International break (and the mini League last season but that is history and he has a clean slate this season)
I continue to want Lee Bowyer to be a success for all our sakes. I'm more and more baffled by his thought process.
The biggest worry is the players being baffled with so many of his 1st half line ups.
Why would you not make a decision now in the interests of CAFC? That decision might be to retain Bowyer, but surely everything we do at all times should be in the interests of Charlton Athletic.
Thomas Sandgaard wants to give Lee Bowyer a full season under his tenure; Not judge him on past seasons under the cluster fuck of Duchatelet and the myriad of chancers. He is also understanding of the salary cap.
What ever Thomas Sandgaard believes is best for Cafc, to sack him or to back him will happen at the behest of TS.
If it's in the best interest of Cafc now ? How long would it take to head hunt a replacement with the right philosophy ?
How many young Eddie Howe's are out there ? Other than Eddie Howe obviously.
A course and distance winner in League 2 to the Premier with attractive football. The master class with Yann getting the ball on the ground and all the midfielders and forwards running into space around him was an interesting watch in that championship winning performance at the Valley.
I doubt if Howe would want to start so low with a salary cap in place this time.
All the Man U fans that wanted Olly sacked two months ago (the vast majority) have gone very quiet in the last few weeks. Turns out he might not be completely out of his depth and he might actually have a clue after all...
Did he play Rashford at right back? Did he say he didn’t care if Fernandes had sustained a serious injury?
Let’s be honest, Manchester United’s form has not reached the depths that we’ve managed to plumb over the past couple of months and I doubt Solskjaer’s win % is as low as Bowyer’s in the past 18 months (with a relegation thrown in).
Bowyer got a pass from pretty much all of our fans for some of the dreadful on the field performances and poor runs since Wembley because he was working under crazy circumstances. Eventually those passes run out.
Anyway, I think despite the thousands of words written on Bowyer’s future on this forum (50% of them by me!) it’s moot - I don’t think Sandgaard will sack Bowyer for on the field stuff this season pretty much regardless.
Around the time of Portsmouth away Bowyer was the best thing since sliced bread. Two months later....... Perhaps managers should be given 3 month rollover contracts.
Let’s be honest, Bowyer hadn’t had 3 months, he’s had 3 years.
The point I was making that two months/8 games? after having a terrific run of games taking us to 3rd place, Bowyer is getting hammered and his future questioned.
I categorically don’t want Bowyer replaced at this point. I think that would be ridiculous and very counter productive. What I want between now and the end of the season is to see things turned around on and off the pitch regardless of whether that leads to a promotion or not. There has to be from now on a turn around enough for me as a lowly supporter to feel confident that Bowyer is the man to lead us next season in a promotion campaign. I’m sure Mr.Sandgaard feels similar. A continuation of what we currently have won’t be good enough for me not to want a change in the summer. It’s in your own hands Lee. Make a fist of it.
All the Man U fans that wanted Olly sacked two months ago (the vast majority) have gone very quiet in the last few weeks. Turns out he might not be completely out of his depth and he might actually have a clue after all...
Did he play Rashford at right back? Did he say he didn’t care if Fernandes had sustained a serious injury?
Let’s be honest, Manchester United’s form has not reached the depths that we’ve managed to plumb over the past couple of months and I doubt Solskjaer’s win % is as low as Bowyer’s in the past 18 months (with a relegation thrown in).
Bowyer got a pass from pretty much all of our fans for some of the dreadful on the field performances and poor runs since Wembley because he was working under crazy circumstances. Eventually those passes run out.
Anyway, I think despite the thousands of words written on Bowyer’s future on this forum (50% of them by me!) it’s moot - I don’t think Sandgaard will sack Bowyer for on the field stuff this season pretty much regardless.
Around the time of Portsmouth away Bowyer was the best thing since sliced bread. Two months later....... Perhaps managers should be given 3 month rollover contracts.
Let’s be honest, Bowyer hadn’t had 3 months, he’s had 3 years.
The point I was making that two months/8 games? after having a terrific run of games taking us to 3rd place, Bowyer is getting hammered and his future question.
If we look at it though, it's not just been 8 games. Bowyer has been doing this for a year now. Even before we lost Gallagher he had started to try to nick a goal and shut up shop.
It has got worse as we've come down a level. The rumours of a senior pro stating Bowyer has lost it and the way Bowyer talks about his players to the media or plays players out of position are all concerning. We stayed in the play offs for so long because those around us were doing poorly, not because we were excelling.
A new manager will need time to see what he has to work and be given time to decide which players they want to keep. The decision will need to be made before the end of february and to be honest, if we continue to slip away from the play off pack until then, I can see no option than to get a new manager in.
People are ignoring that IF Bowyer wants us promoted, it has to be done this season as the cap doesn't disappear and players on above cap salaries won't want to join the club where the manager is constantly slagging off players for less money.
We need promotion this season. Bowyer needs to find the man he was when he took over from Robinson, stop letting last seasons problems affect this season.
Like the in the know thread if Bows stays on and we get promoted I’d move to name and shame they Bowyer out brigade
So if we don't and continue to defend like dogshit and he gets sacked, we should name and shame those who wanted to keep him in?
I don't think anyone who is suggesting Bowyer out particularly wants to be in that situation, or one of the ridiculous claims that we want to be doing badly to get rid of him. He's a hero for the last few years, but we're on a bad run, and he's reacted to that himself pretty poorly and all the whispers suggest he's losing the dressing room for it. Unfortunately with a change in ownership, management changes are always pretty inevitable at some point to get their own men in, and this seems to be going that way.
If the comeback tonight ignites a change in his philosophy to go a bit more attacking and on the front foot etc, everyone would be delighted. I'm not going to get too excited about a draw with Rochdale at home in isolation though, but we will see.
I dunno.. I've been labelled a Bowyer Apologist a good few times now so its maybe only fair that the label gets dished back
I was apparently a Nimer Apologist and now it turns out I'm a Bowyer Apologist, but I ain't changing for no one
Good point, has Nimer come up with the money yet? :-)
What side on Nimer fence you on today?
Nimer was part of the fraud, he never had the money, but it wasn't his plan. I'll say no more as it's in the past & don't want to derail the thread.
Regarding the thread title Bowyer has undoubtedly lost the plot, if what we mean by that is playing players out of position every game & setting the team up wrong most games.
The injuries probably aren't down to him although we seem to get far too many in training. Inniss is a big miss, I think he was injured in training.
Did Shinnie get injured in training? Pearce, was he injured in training?
Either way we get far too many injuries in training & that has to be questioned.
I accept that we got in the players that we could at the end of the summer, so that cannot be down to Bowyer.
However, Bowyer sets up the team/tactics wrong nearly every game, making bizarre decisions and playing players in wrong positions and he's still not learnt and is still doing it. It beggars belief.
Most games we fall behind because of this against all the poorest teams and he then decides to try and save the game by changing his ridiculous decisions.
As Golfie keeps telling us, we've come from behind to win once in something like 35 games.
If I were a conspiracy theorist type of guy I'd think he was trying to lose on purpose.
Whether he should stay or go I'm 50/50, but his original decision making is poor most games.
I'll always love Lee and always be grateful for everything he's done for the club, but I honestly believe this is a very very poor league and we would be in the top 2 if it wasn't for his poor setting up of the team in the last few months.
PS I love my wife but I wouldn't want her setting up the team either :-)
Like the in the know thread if Bows stays on and we get promoted I’d move to name and shame they Bowyer out brigade
So if we don't and continue to defend like dogshit and he gets sacked, we should name and shame those who wanted to keep him in?
I don't think anyone who is suggesting Bowyer out particularly wants to be in that situation, or one of the ridiculous claims that we want to be doing badly to get rid of him. He's a hero for the last few years, but we're on a bad run, and he's reacted to that himself pretty poorly and all the whispers suggest he's losing the dressing room for it. Unfortunately with a change in ownership, management changes are always pretty inevitable at some point to get their own men in, and this seems to be going that way.
If the comeback tonight ignites a change in his philosophy to go a bit more attacking and on the front foot etc, everyone would be delighted. I'm not going to get too excited about a draw with Rochdale at home in isolation though, but we will see.
I dunno.. I've been labelled a Bowyer Apologist a good few times now so its maybe only fair that the label gets dished back
I was apparently a Nimer Apologist and now it turns out I'm a Bowyer Apologist, but I ain't changing for no one
Good point, has Nimer come up with the money yet? :-)
What side on Nimer fence you on today?
Nimer was part of the fraud, he never had the money, but it wasn't his plan. I'll say no more as it's in the past & don't want to derail the thread.
Regarding the thread title Bowyer has undoubtedly lost the plot, if what we mean by that is playing players out of position every game & setting the team up wrong most games.
The injuries probably aren't down to him although we seem to get far too many in training. Inniss is a big miss, I think he was injured in training.
Did Shinnie get injured in training? Pearce, was he injured in training?
Either way we get far too many injuries in training & that has to be questioned.
I accept that we got in the players that we could at the end of the summer, so that cannot be down to Bowyer.
However, Bowyer sets up the team/tactics wrong nearly every game, making bizarre decisions and playing players in wrong positions and he's still not learnt and is still doing it. It beggars belief.
Most games we fall behind because of this against all the poorest teams and he then decides to try and save the game by changing his ridiculous decisions.
As Golfie keeps telling us, we've come from behind to win once in something like 35 games.
If I were a conspiracy theorist type of guy I'd think he was trying to lose on purpose.
Whether he should stay or go I'm 50/50, but his original decision making is poor most games.
Nobody thinks that, it is just that sometimes the decisions are so ridiculous it actually does look like it. What Bowyer needs to do is build on the second half and keep as much continuity in the team as possible.
This season was buggered up when it started. All the pointing of fingers, the groans and outrage will not change that. I could not see a great title winning side, even after the late recruits, and nor could the vast majority of our fans. Golfi was predicting Bogle to be our top goal scorer and moaning that we will not get promotion without a 20 goal striker! Rumour of a senior pro saying Bowyer has lost the dressing room? Fantasy. Last night showed he hasn’t - and that is the reality we all saw. We still have a great chance of the playoffs and arguably our best players returning from injury in the next month.
We need stability, a window to sign some permanent players, and some luck with loans this summer. And of course, a decent pre-season. I really don’t think that chucking out our management team at this point in time is sensible in anyway.
Like the in the know thread if Bows stays on and we get promoted I’d move to name and shame they Bowyer out brigade
So if we don't and continue to defend like dogshit and he gets sacked, we should name and shame those who wanted to keep him in?
I don't think anyone who is suggesting Bowyer out particularly wants to be in that situation, or one of the ridiculous claims that we want to be doing badly to get rid of him. He's a hero for the last few years, but we're on a bad run, and he's reacted to that himself pretty poorly and all the whispers suggest he's losing the dressing room for it. Unfortunately with a change in ownership, management changes are always pretty inevitable at some point to get their own men in, and this seems to be going that way.
If the comeback tonight ignites a change in his philosophy to go a bit more attacking and on the front foot etc, everyone would be delighted. I'm not going to get too excited about a draw with Rochdale at home in isolation though, but we will see.
I dunno.. I've been labelled a Bowyer Apologist a good few times now so its maybe only fair that the label gets dished back
I was apparently a Nimer Apologist and now it turns out I'm a Bowyer Apologist, but I ain't changing for no one
Good point, has Nimer come up with the money yet? :-)
What side on Nimer fence you on today?
Nimer was part of the fraud, he never had the money, but it wasn't his plan. I'll say no more as it's in the past & don't want to derail the thread.
Regarding the thread title Bowyer has undoubtedly lost the plot, if what we mean by that is playing players out of position every game & setting the team up wrong most games.
The injuries probably aren't down to him although we seem to get far too many in training. Inniss is a big miss, I think he was injured in training.
Did Shinnie get injured in training? Pearce, was he injured in training?
Either way we get far too many injuries in training & that has to be questioned.
I accept that we got in the players that we could at the end of the summer, so that cannot be down to Bowyer.
However, Bowyer sets up the team/tactics wrong nearly every game, making bizarre decisions and playing players in wrong positions and he's still not learnt and is still doing it. It beggars belief.
Most games we fall behind because of this against all the poorest teams and he then decides to try and save the game by changing his ridiculous decisions.
As Golfie keeps telling us, we've come from behind to win once in something like 35 games.
If I were a conspiracy theorist type of guy I'd think he was trying to lose on purpose.
Whether he should stay or go I'm 50/50, but his original decision making is poor most games.
I'll always love Lee and always be grateful for everything he's done for the club, but I honestly believe this is a very very poor league and we would be in the top 2 if it wasn't for his poor setting up of the team in the last few months.
PS I love my wife but I wouldn't want her setting up the team either :-)
Judging by the hysterical posts last night, it could be said some people would think your beloved could do a better job.
Maybe the solution is to find another Bowyer pre ESI baggage. We seen to have a damaged one now.
To get the best out of your players at your disposal: Football management is about this at any level; for Pep, Lee, or the kids team manager.
Lee has lost the ability to understand momentum, and keeping the shirt if you have played well. We give Bowyer some slack because of fitness concerns.
We had two bona fides strikers playing off each other for a short period as proven by Aneke and Schwartz playing as a strike pair and combining to score the Fourth goal.
If we had Amos, Inniss, Famewo, Shinnie, Aneke and Schwartz as our spine than we have enough with the rest of the squad to at least be in the top 6. It's paramount we get one more CB in even if someone has to go so we can achieve this. Pearce is being done by League 1 forwards now. Oshilaja should be the standby for the CB place.
Both Inniss and Famewo have been injury proned since their valley move(Inniss was before his move)
If our injuries ever clear up (unlikely as its been happening for years) then we still have a chance.
Bowyer needs to find his mojo ASAP. I hope he is given to the end of the season to come good.
Like the in the know thread if Bows stays on and we get promoted I’d move to name and shame they Bowyer out brigade
So if we don't and continue to defend like dogshit and he gets sacked, we should name and shame those who wanted to keep him in?
I don't think anyone who is suggesting Bowyer out particularly wants to be in that situation, or one of the ridiculous claims that we want to be doing badly to get rid of him. He's a hero for the last few years, but we're on a bad run, and he's reacted to that himself pretty poorly and all the whispers suggest he's losing the dressing room for it. Unfortunately with a change in ownership, management changes are always pretty inevitable at some point to get their own men in, and this seems to be going that way.
If the comeback tonight ignites a change in his philosophy to go a bit more attacking and on the front foot etc, everyone would be delighted. I'm not going to get too excited about a draw with Rochdale at home in isolation though, but we will see.
I dunno.. I've been labelled a Bowyer Apologist a good few times now so its maybe only fair that the label gets dished back
I was apparently a Nimer Apologist and now it turns out I'm a Bowyer Apologist, but I ain't changing for no one
Good point, has Nimer come up with the money yet? :-)
What side on Nimer fence you on today?
If I were a conspiracy theorist type of guy I'd think he was trying to lose on purpose.
Oh come on, you’ve been supporting the club long enough to be above such nonsense surely?
Think all this Vitamin D everyone is taking is turning them delusional
If we put the spotlight on the first half yesterday (as we expect a performance like the 2nd in terms of effort and take some chances). Bowyer:
- Aimed for a more attacking line-up from the get go - Changed formation from previous game and opted to use a forward at RWB against a pacey young flyer, rather then 2 Championship quality RB's - Changed the formation after 30 mins to 442 with the RWB moving to a forward, who soon injured himself (surprise) - Saw us conceded 4 goals - Made 2 substitutions at half time
Now that is quite a lot going on for 45 mins of football after a week of training?! To me, it shows he's at his most comfortable when starting a game defensively to not lose and then match the opposition half an hour in, and if players haven't outperformed their opposite number, go hard at them. Sadly, I think that's our tactical and strategic approach.
We saw tonight that the players are behind Bowyer 100%. They could have folded after conceding four goals in the first half, but came out and won the second half convincingly. A fantastic effort and if had not be for Kettle, who has clearly never played the game, I think we would have won. Now the players have regrown a pair I can see us performing better. Maybe not winning, but I will be looking for the performance. The team that played that half should be the team that starts Saturday - although the defence will need a change. I think we stand a good chance of getting into the playoffs still.
that's a quick u turn on williams
I think that was one of his best games of late and he did not hand over possession as easily. I am still of the belief that as an attacking midfielder he fails to produce enough, but sometimes the sum of a team is greater than the individual parts, and so he deserves his place.
I still think it is laughable him playing as one of a central pairing, and would also suggest that the attack, attack, attack philosophy you were advocating resulted in us shipping four goals in a half against Rochdale - but fully accept that no one had Smyth down as a wing back! It does demonstrate the need for the right balance of players though.
For me, it was the change to a 4-4-2 that was pivotal to improved our performance, (and playing a right full back), and you have probably noted that I advocate a 4-4-2 or 3-5-2.
Aneke was my MOM and Foster-Caskey a close second. He absolutely ran everything.
Would you go for a 4-4-2 Saturday with the team that played second half?
my line up was 4 - 4 - 2 and included virtually all the personnel that started the second half - the goals came mainly from the smyth rwb nonsense where matthews would have been - The only adjustment i would adjust from my starting lining up would be jfc for morgan, Oshalaja certainly wouldn't be in midfield !!!
Like the in the know thread if Bows stays on and we get promoted I’d move to name and shame they Bowyer out brigade
So if we don't and continue to defend like dogshit and he gets sacked, we should name and shame those who wanted to keep him in?
I don't think anyone who is suggesting Bowyer out particularly wants to be in that situation, or one of the ridiculous claims that we want to be doing badly to get rid of him. He's a hero for the last few years, but we're on a bad run, and he's reacted to that himself pretty poorly and all the whispers suggest he's losing the dressing room for it. Unfortunately with a change in ownership, management changes are always pretty inevitable at some point to get their own men in, and this seems to be going that way.
If the comeback tonight ignites a change in his philosophy to go a bit more attacking and on the front foot etc, everyone would be delighted. I'm not going to get too excited about a draw with Rochdale at home in isolation though, but we will see.
I dunno.. I've been labelled a Bowyer Apologist a good few times now so its maybe only fair that the label gets dished back
I was apparently a Nimer Apologist and now it turns out I'm a Bowyer Apologist, but I ain't changing for no one
Good point, has Nimer come up with the money yet? :-)
What side on Nimer fence you on today?
If I were a conspiracy theorist type of guy I'd think he was trying to lose on purpose.
Oh come on, you’ve been supporting the club long enough to be above such nonsense surely?
Think all this Vitamin D everyone is taking is turning them delusional
Like the in the know thread if Bows stays on and we get promoted I’d move to name and shame they Bowyer out brigade
So if we don't and continue to defend like dogshit and he gets sacked, we should name and shame those who wanted to keep him in?
I don't think anyone who is suggesting Bowyer out particularly wants to be in that situation, or one of the ridiculous claims that we want to be doing badly to get rid of him. He's a hero for the last few years, but we're on a bad run, and he's reacted to that himself pretty poorly and all the whispers suggest he's losing the dressing room for it. Unfortunately with a change in ownership, management changes are always pretty inevitable at some point to get their own men in, and this seems to be going that way.
If the comeback tonight ignites a change in his philosophy to go a bit more attacking and on the front foot etc, everyone would be delighted. I'm not going to get too excited about a draw with Rochdale at home in isolation though, but we will see.
I dunno.. I've been labelled a Bowyer Apologist a good few times now so its maybe only fair that the label gets dished back
I was apparently a Nimer Apologist and now it turns out I'm a Bowyer Apologist, but I ain't changing for no one
Good point, has Nimer come up with the money yet? :-)
What side on Nimer fence you on today?
If I were a conspiracy theorist type of guy I'd think he was trying to lose on purpose.
Oh come on, you’ve been supporting the club long enough to be above such nonsense surely?
Think all this Vitamin D everyone is taking is turning them delusional
The pubs must be open.
What? Whereabouts Elfs? Just my luck if you're buying that I'm 200 miles away! 😉
Replacing Williams, Amos, Pearce, JFC, Oshilaja, Chuks and Pratley within the wage cap is an impossibility. We have to have a strategy around keeping the pre cap signed players if we are going to be in this division next season!
Their full wage would count towards the cap next season as they would be signing a new contract and for the purposes of the cap are treated just like any new signing.
If we don't get promoted, there's no way we keep Chuks anyway
As in you think a championship side will want him or you don't think we could afford to renew his contract?
Probably both in fairness, but I was thinking more of someone coming in for him.
Like the in the know thread if Bows stays on and we get promoted I’d move to name and shame they Bowyer out brigade
So if we don't and continue to defend like dogshit and he gets sacked, we should name and shame those who wanted to keep him in?
I don't think anyone who is suggesting Bowyer out particularly wants to be in that situation, or one of the ridiculous claims that we want to be doing badly to get rid of him. He's a hero for the last few years, but we're on a bad run, and he's reacted to that himself pretty poorly and all the whispers suggest he's losing the dressing room for it. Unfortunately with a change in ownership, management changes are always pretty inevitable at some point to get their own men in, and this seems to be going that way.
If the comeback tonight ignites a change in his philosophy to go a bit more attacking and on the front foot etc, everyone would be delighted. I'm not going to get too excited about a draw with Rochdale at home in isolation though, but we will see.
I dunno.. I've been labelled a Bowyer Apologist a good few times now so its maybe only fair that the label gets dished back
I was apparently a Nimer Apologist and now it turns out I'm a Bowyer Apologist, but I ain't changing for no one
Good point, has Nimer come up with the money yet? :-)
What side on Nimer fence you on today?
If I were a conspiracy theorist type of guy I'd think he was trying to lose on purpose.
Oh come on, you’ve been supporting the club long enough to be above such nonsense surely?
Think all this Vitamin D everyone is taking is turning them delusional
The pubs must be open.
What? Whereabouts Elfs? Just my luck if your buying that I'm 200 miles away! 😉
Long way to travel for a half mate. However, you're more than welcome.
This season was buggered up when it started. All the pointing of fingers, the groans and outrage will not change that. I could not see a great title winning side, even after the late recruits, and nor could the vast majority of our fans. Golfi was predicting Bogle to be our top goal scorer and moaning that we will not get promotion without a 20 goal striker! Rumour of a senior pro saying Bowyer has lost the dressing room? Fantasy. Last night showed he hasn’t - and that is the reality we all saw. We still have a great chance of the playoffs and arguably our best players returning from injury in the next month.
We need stability, a window to sign some permanent players, and some luck with loans this summer. And of course, a decent pre-season. I really don’t think that chucking out our management team at this point in time is sensible in anyway.
sorry to stalk youa bit here redrobo but what last night proved is that if we have a threat going forwards and put our best strikers and midfielders on the pitch, we will create lot more chances than packing the team with defenders and defensive midfielders. Admittedly we now have 2 extra strikers of the required quality to do it but if we hadn't played smyth at wing back, i'm pretty sure we'd have wone that by 2 or 3. If we had played my starting line up, it would have been by 3 or 4!!! Bowyer is surviving on loyalty, benefit of the doubt and a desire to give him a chance to correct things as we all have bad patches - he is learning on the job all the time so lets hope he has learnt that packing team out with defenders, never works.
This season was buggered up when it started. All the pointing of fingers, the groans and outrage will not change that. I could not see a great title winning side, even after the late recruits, and nor could the vast majority of our fans. Golfi was predicting Bogle to be our top goal scorer and moaning that we will not get promotion without a 20 goal striker! Rumour of a senior pro saying Bowyer has lost the dressing room? Fantasy. Last night showed he hasn’t - and that is the reality we all saw. We still have a great chance of the playoffs and arguably our best players returning from injury in the next month.
We need stability, a window to sign some permanent players, and some luck with loans this summer. And of course, a decent pre-season. I really don’t think that chucking out our management team at this point in time is sensible in anyway.
I have seen nothing to show that this is fantasy. It comes from a poster who has a good record and states he heard it directly from the player.
Golfie was wrong about Omar, but right about promotion without a 20 goal striker... We don't have one and are 9th on PPG (Yes PPG is the fairest way of giving our real position given the messed up games played for each club.)
All the Man U fans that wanted Olly sacked two months ago (the vast majority) have gone very quiet in the last few weeks. Turns out he might not be completely out of his depth and he might actually have a clue after all...
Did he play Rashford at right back? Did he say he didn’t care if Fernandes had sustained a serious injury?
Let’s be honest, Manchester United’s form has not reached the depths that we’ve managed to plumb over the past couple of months and I doubt Solskjaer’s win % is as low as Bowyer’s in the past 18 months (with a relegation thrown in).
Bowyer got a pass from pretty much all of our fans for some of the dreadful on the field performances and poor runs since Wembley because he was working under crazy circumstances. Eventually those passes run out.
Anyway, I think despite the thousands of words written on Bowyer’s future on this forum (50% of them by me!) it’s moot - I don’t think Sandgaard will sack Bowyer for on the field stuff this season pretty much regardless.
I don't think you can compare Bowyers / OGS's jobs and mistakes. I think the point being made was more to do with the turn around in opinion of the fans.
Bowyer admitted his mistake and tries to explain it in the SLP interview
It's interesting that he's holding his hand up now and acknowledging his mistakes. Do you think that is in someway, him being told to be diplomatic and offset the blame he puts on players, back onto himself?
All the Man U fans that wanted Olly sacked two months ago (the vast majority) have gone very quiet in the last few weeks. Turns out he might not be completely out of his depth and he might actually have a clue after all...
Did he play Rashford at right back? Did he say he didn’t care if Fernandes had sustained a serious injury?
Let’s be honest, Manchester United’s form has not reached the depths that we’ve managed to plumb over the past couple of months and I doubt Solskjaer’s win % is as low as Bowyer’s in the past 18 months (with a relegation thrown in).
Bowyer got a pass from pretty much all of our fans for some of the dreadful on the field performances and poor runs since Wembley because he was working under crazy circumstances. Eventually those passes run out.
Anyway, I think despite the thousands of words written on Bowyer’s future on this forum (50% of them by me!) it’s moot - I don’t think Sandgaard will sack Bowyer for on the field stuff this season pretty much regardless.
I don't think you can compare Bowyers / OGS's jobs and mistakes. I think the point being made was more to do with the turn around in opinion of the fans.
Bowyer admitted his mistake and tries to explain it in the SLP interview
It's interesting that he's holding his hand up now and acknowledging his mistakes. Do you think that is in someway, him being told to be diplomatic and offset the blame he puts on players, back onto himself?
But what choice did he have? 3 goals came down our right where he gambled on Smyth and it backfired terribly. He couldn't blame Smyth in his post match interviews, so who else?
This season was buggered up when it started. All the pointing of fingers, the groans and outrage will not change that. I could not see a great title winning side, even after the late recruits, and nor could the vast majority of our fans. Golfi was predicting Bogle to be our top goal scorer and moaning that we will not get promotion without a 20 goal striker! Rumour of a senior pro saying Bowyer has lost the dressing room? Fantasy. Last night showed he hasn’t - and that is the reality we all saw. We still have a great chance of the playoffs and arguably our best players returning from injury in the next month.
We need stability, a window to sign some permanent players, and some luck with loans this summer. And of course, a decent pre-season. I really don’t think that chucking out our management team at this point in time is sensible in anyway.
I have seen nothing to show that this is fantasy. It comes from a poster who has a good record and states he heard it directly from the player.
Golfie was wrong about Omar, but right about promotion without a 20 goal striker... We don't have one and are 9th on PPG (Yes PPG is the fairest way of giving our real position given the messed up games played for each club.)
Its the defence thats the issue, not a goalscorer!!
Scoring has rarely been the problem this season, we've the EIGHTH worst defence in the entire League!!
Five games we've failed to score Eight clean sheets, just the one since we lost Inniss and Famewo, none since we lost Shinnie
If you compare our defence to the one from 2011/12 and 2018/19 we can only realistically afford to concede another 12-goals all season, even then the defence will be worse than those two years
Thankfully those seasons were outstanding from us, as you've had Play-Off winners go up having conceded 56, 57, 58 goals in the last decade... But tightening up at the back has to happen
All the Man U fans that wanted Olly sacked two months ago (the vast majority) have gone very quiet in the last few weeks. Turns out he might not be completely out of his depth and he might actually have a clue after all...
Did he play Rashford at right back? Did he say he didn’t care if Fernandes had sustained a serious injury?
Let’s be honest, Manchester United’s form has not reached the depths that we’ve managed to plumb over the past couple of months and I doubt Solskjaer’s win % is as low as Bowyer’s in the past 18 months (with a relegation thrown in).
Bowyer got a pass from pretty much all of our fans for some of the dreadful on the field performances and poor runs since Wembley because he was working under crazy circumstances. Eventually those passes run out.
Anyway, I think despite the thousands of words written on Bowyer’s future on this forum (50% of them by me!) it’s moot - I don’t think Sandgaard will sack Bowyer for on the field stuff this season pretty much regardless.
I don't think you can compare Bowyers / OGS's jobs and mistakes. I think the point being made was more to do with the turn around in opinion of the fans.
Bowyer admitted his mistake and tries to explain it in the SLP interview
It's interesting that he's holding his hand up now and acknowledging his mistakes. Do you think that is in someway, him being told to be diplomatic and offset the blame he puts on players, back onto himself?
But what choice did he have? 3 goals came down our right where he gambled on Smyth and it backfired terribly. He couldn't blame Smyth in his post match interviews, so who else?
That's true. I'm simply asking does anyone think he may have had a directorate from the top?
This season was buggered up when it started. All the pointing of fingers, the groans and outrage will not change that. I could not see a great title winning side, even after the late recruits, and nor could the vast majority of our fans. Golfi was predicting Bogle to be our top goal scorer and moaning that we will not get promotion without a 20 goal striker! Rumour of a senior pro saying Bowyer has lost the dressing room? Fantasy. Last night showed he hasn’t - and that is the reality we all saw. We still have a great chance of the playoffs and arguably our best players returning from injury in the next month.
We need stability, a window to sign some permanent players, and some luck with loans this summer. And of course, a decent pre-season. I really don’t think that chucking out our management team at this point in time is sensible in anyway.
I have seen nothing to show that this is fantasy. It comes from a poster who has a good record and states he heard it directly from the player.
Golfie was wrong about Omar, but right about promotion without a 20 goal striker... We don't have one and are 9th on PPG (Yes PPG is the fairest way of giving our real position given the messed up games played for each club.)
My comment was not directed at the poster. He may well have heard it from a player, but that does not make it true. If you are doing well under a manager you are going to like him and want them to stay. If you are not, you want him to go. Same in football as it is for the rest of us. It maybe the case for that particular player in that particular time. But we saw yesterday the players give there all to comeback. That is fact.
Glad you agree that we are not, and have never been, a title winning side. Performances should be judged in that context IMO.
Comments
Charlton chopped and changed manager between Seed and Lennie, not at the post Curbs rate, but then we had two managers for a whole generation.
I was 3 when Lennie got the job, I was 27 when Curbs left. That is far from common.
We have posters saying they agree he is making weird calls but he is in credit. He should not be making weird calls or digging out players. When you need players running through brick walls for you, that is when you see the results of poor management. When you have players afraid to express themselves that is when you see poor management too.
My advice to Sandgaard is to get Roddy to make some subtle enquires as to what is going on in the dressing room. Any players leaving the club would be a good starting point for a frank discussion, if they are willing to say anything. If/when that opportunity comes, don't waste it.
Thomas Sandgaard wants to give Lee Bowyer a full season under his tenure;
Not judge him on past seasons under the cluster fuck of Duchatelet and the myriad of chancers. He is also understanding of the salary cap.
What ever Thomas Sandgaard believes is best for Cafc, to sack him or to back him will happen at the behest of TS.
If it's in the best interest of Cafc now ?
How long would it take to head hunt a replacement with the right philosophy ?
How many young Eddie Howe's are out there ? Other than Eddie Howe obviously.
A course and distance winner in League 2 to the Premier with attractive football. The master class with Yann getting the ball on the ground and all the midfielders and forwards running into space around him was an interesting watch in that championship winning performance at the Valley.
I doubt if Howe would want to start so low with a salary cap in place this time.
The point I was making that two months/8 games? after having a terrific run of games taking us to 3rd place, Bowyer is getting hammered and his future questioned.
Yep, what a sensible post.
It has got worse as we've come down a level. The rumours of a senior pro stating Bowyer has lost it and the way Bowyer talks about his players to the media or plays players out of position are all concerning. We stayed in the play offs for so long because those around us were doing poorly, not because we were excelling.
A new manager will need time to see what he has to work and be given time to decide which players they want to keep. The decision will need to be made before the end of february and to be honest, if we continue to slip away from the play off pack until then, I can see no option than to get a new manager in.
People are ignoring that IF Bowyer wants us promoted, it has to be done this season as the cap doesn't disappear and players on above cap salaries won't want to join the club where the manager is constantly slagging off players for less money.
We need promotion this season. Bowyer needs to find the man he was when he took over from Robinson, stop letting last seasons problems affect this season.
I'll say no more as it's in the past & don't want to derail the thread.
Regarding the thread title Bowyer has undoubtedly lost the plot, if what we mean by that is playing players out of position every game & setting the team up wrong most games.
The injuries probably aren't down to him although we seem to get far too many in training.
Inniss is a big miss, I think he was injured in training.
Did Shinnie get injured in training?
Pearce, was he injured in training?
Either way we get far too many injuries in training & that has to be questioned.
I accept that we got in the players that we could at the end of the summer, so that cannot be down to Bowyer.
However, Bowyer sets up the team/tactics wrong nearly every game, making bizarre decisions and playing players in wrong positions and he's still not learnt and is still doing it. It beggars belief.
Most games we fall behind because of this against all the poorest teams and he then decides to try and save the game by changing his ridiculous decisions.
As Golfie keeps telling us, we've come from behind to win once in something like 35 games.
If I were a conspiracy theorist type of guy I'd think he was trying to lose on purpose.
Whether he should stay or go I'm 50/50, but his original decision making is poor most games.
I'll always love Lee and always be grateful for everything he's done for the club, but I honestly believe this is a very very poor league and we would be in the top 2 if it wasn't for his poor setting up of the team in the last few months.
PS I love my wife but I wouldn't want her setting up the team either :-)
Come on mate, you surely don't think that?
Golfi was predicting Bogle to be our top goal scorer and moaning that we will not get promotion without a 20 goal striker!
Rumour of a senior pro saying Bowyer has lost the dressing room? Fantasy. Last night showed he hasn’t - and that is the reality we all saw. We still have a great chance of the playoffs and arguably our best players returning from injury in the next month.
To get the best out of your players at your disposal: Football management is about this at any level; for Pep, Lee, or the kids team manager.
Lee has lost the ability to understand momentum, and keeping the shirt if you have played well. We give Bowyer some slack because of fitness concerns.
We had two bona fides strikers playing off each other for a short period as proven by Aneke and Schwartz playing as a strike pair and combining to score the Fourth goal.
If we had Amos, Inniss, Famewo, Shinnie, Aneke and Schwartz as our spine than we have enough with the rest of the squad to at least be in the top 6.
It's paramount we get one more CB in even if someone has to go so we can achieve this. Pearce is being done by League 1 forwards now. Oshilaja should be the standby for the CB place.
Both Inniss and Famewo have been injury proned since their valley move(Inniss was before his move)
If our injuries ever clear up (unlikely as its been happening for years) then we still have a chance.
Bowyer needs to find his mojo ASAP.
I hope he is given to the end of the season to come good.
Think all this Vitamin D everyone is taking is turning them delusional
- Aimed for a more attacking line-up from the get go
- Changed formation from previous game and opted to use a forward at RWB against a pacey young flyer, rather then 2 Championship quality RB's
- Changed the formation after 30 mins to 442 with the RWB moving to a forward, who soon injured himself (surprise)
- Saw us conceded 4 goals
- Made 2 substitutions at half time
Now that is quite a lot going on for 45 mins of football after a week of training?! To me, it shows he's at his most comfortable when starting a game defensively to not lose and then match the opposition half an hour in, and if players haven't outperformed their opposite number, go hard at them. Sadly, I think that's our tactical and strategic approach.
my line up was 4 - 4 - 2 and included virtually all the personnel that started the second half - the goals came mainly from the smyth rwb nonsense where matthews would have been - The only adjustment i would adjust from my starting lining up would be jfc for morgan, Oshalaja certainly wouldn't be in midfield !!!
The pubs must be open.
Long way to travel for a half mate. However, you're more than welcome.
sorry to stalk youa bit here redrobo but what last night proved is that if we have a threat going forwards and put our best strikers and midfielders on the pitch, we will create lot more chances than packing the team with defenders and defensive midfielders. Admittedly we now have 2 extra strikers of the required quality to do it but if we hadn't played smyth at wing back, i'm pretty sure we'd have wone that by 2 or 3. If we had played my starting line up, it would have been by 3 or 4!!! Bowyer is surviving on loyalty, benefit of the doubt and a desire to give him a chance to correct things as we all have bad patches - he is learning on the job all the time so lets hope he has learnt that packing team out with defenders, never works.
Golfie was wrong about Omar, but right about promotion without a 20 goal striker... We don't have one and are 9th on PPG (Yes PPG is the fairest way of giving our real position given the messed up games played for each club.)
Scoring has rarely been the problem this season, we've the EIGHTH worst defence in the entire League!!
Five games we've failed to score
Eight clean sheets, just the one since we lost Inniss and Famewo, none since we lost Shinnie
If you compare our defence to the one from 2011/12 and 2018/19 we can only realistically afford to concede another 12-goals all season, even then the defence will be worse than those two years
Thankfully those seasons were outstanding from us, as you've had Play-Off winners go up having conceded 56, 57, 58 goals in the last decade... But tightening up at the back has to happen
If you are doing well under a manager you are going to like him and want them to stay. If you are not, you want him to go. Same in football as it is for the rest of us. It maybe the case for that particular player in that particular time. But we saw yesterday the players give there all to comeback. That is fact.
Glad you agree that we are not, and have never been, a title winning side. Performances should be judged in that context IMO.