Matt Smith MK2 (the Arsenal loanee one) - gone to Wigan p7

cafcfan1990

On a different note Arsenal can't be happy. He was getting gametime at Swindon and now he's playing for our U23's. We've been a good place for their youngsters to come and most have been successful so it's a relationship I'd want us to keep sweet!

LonelyNorthernAddick

cafcfan1990 said:

On a different note Arsenal can't be happy. He was getting gametime at Swindon and now he's playing for our U23's. We've been a good place for their youngsters to come and most have been successful so it's a relationship I'd want us to keep sweet!

I totally agree with what you're saying and the loans have been very helpful in previous seasons (Bielik, Cullen especially) but I would say the preference for the loanees were at a detriment to our academy players at times.

Bowyer chronically under-played our players and youngsters especially, unless his hand was forced, in recent years - I couldn't name a single player that has come through into the first team since Bowyer took over (Aribo, Morgan, Lapslie, Konsa etc were already in and around the first team when he took the reins), I can't remember that happening any time for a 2 or 3 year stint previously.

Loans obviously have their place but the balance with them and bringing through the academy was out in the last 3 years imo.

redlanered

LonelyNorthernAddick said:

cafcfan1990 said:

On a different note Arsenal can't be happy. He was getting gametime at Swindon and now he's playing for our U23's. We've been a good place for their youngsters to come and most have been successful so it's a relationship I'd want us to keep sweet!

I totally agree with what you're saying and the loans have been very helpful in previous seasons (Bielik, Cullen especially) but I would say the preference for the loanees were at a detriment to our academy players at times.

Bowyer chronically under-played our players and youngsters especially, unless his hand was forced, in recent years - I couldn't name a single player that has come through into the first team since Bowyer took over (Aribo, Morgan, Lapslie, Konsa etc were already in and around the first team when he took the reins), I can't remember that happening any time for a 2 or 3 year stint previously.

Loans obviously have their place but the balance with them and bringing through the academy was out in the last 3 years imo.

I agree with your general sentiment, but Morgan came through under Bowyer, plus there's Doughty of course.  But this season has surely been our weakest for U-23 progression for a long time - especially given the many rotations.  

ElliotCAFC

LonelyNorthernAddick said:

cafcfan1990 said:

On a different note Arsenal can't be happy. He was getting gametime at Swindon and now he's playing for our U23's. We've been a good place for their youngsters to come and most have been successful so it's a relationship I'd want us to keep sweet!

I totally agree with what you're saying and the loans have been very helpful in previous seasons (Bielik, Cullen especially) but I would say the preference for the loanees were at a detriment to our academy players at times.

Bowyer chronically under-played our players and youngsters especially, unless his hand was forced, in recent years - I couldn't name a single player that has come through into the first team since Bowyer took over (Aribo, Morgan, Lapslie, Konsa etc were already in and around the first team when he took the reins), I can't remember that happening any time for a 2 or 3 year stint previously.

Loans obviously have their place but the balance with them and bringing through the academy was out in the last 3 years imo.

Albie Morgan was given his debut under Bowyer. Could also make a case for Dijksteel as he hadn’t featured, bar a cup game, until Bowyer came in and never really came out the team until he left. He also gave chances to Aaron Henry, Doughty and Charlie Barker. 

That’s not to mention the players that made monumental improvements during his time here; Grant, Aribo, Phillips, etc.

That probably hadn’t happened in the 2-3 years before as we were absolutely awful in League One and going nowhere. It’s a much harder team to break into when you’re on a promotion charge in a ridiculously talented League One team or a Championship team fighting for survival.

Cafc43v3r

LonelyNorthernAddick said:

cafcfan1990 said:

On a different note Arsenal can't be happy. He was getting gametime at Swindon and now he's playing for our U23's. We've been a good place for their youngsters to come and most have been successful so it's a relationship I'd want us to keep sweet!

I totally agree with what you're saying and the loans have been very helpful in previous seasons (Bielik, Cullen especially) but I would say the preference for the loanees were at a detriment to our academy players at times.

Bowyer chronically under-played our players and youngsters especially, unless his hand was forced, in recent years - I couldn't name a single player that has come through into the first team since Bowyer took over (Aribo, Morgan, Lapslie, Konsa etc were already in and around the first team when he took the reins), I can't remember that happening any time for a 2 or 3 year stint previously.

Loans obviously have their place but the balance with them and bringing through the academy was out in the last 3 years imo.

To be fair to Bowyer in the last 3 seasons we haven't had a Gomez or a Konsa that has been left out.  He played Aribo and Dijksteel.  He played Phillips when it might have been safer to play Maxwell.

Doughty was lucky in the sense he got a chance, when we literally had no one else, and grabbed it with both hands.  Lapslie was well out of his depth in the championship.

I don't think we have left players out that were good enough.  We just don't or didn't have the quality of players to come in.  That's probably down to Roland not Bowyer. 

killerandflash

sinceiwasyoung said:

Gets a game for the 23's this afternoon. 

So never mind the the 18 for the match this evening, he's not even one of the extra players brought along in case of late injuries or illness!

cafcfan1990

LonelyNorthernAddick said:

cafcfan1990 said:

On a different note Arsenal can't be happy. He was getting gametime at Swindon and now he's playing for our U23's. We've been a good place for their youngsters to come and most have been successful so it's a relationship I'd want us to keep sweet!

I totally agree with what you're saying and the loans have been very helpful in previous seasons (Bielik, Cullen especially) but I would say the preference for the loanees were at a detriment to our academy players at times.

Bowyer chronically under-played our players and youngsters especially, unless his hand was forced, in recent years - I couldn't name a single player that has come through into the first team since Bowyer took over (Aribo, Morgan, Lapslie, Konsa etc were already in and around the first team when he took the reins), I can't remember that happening any time for a 2 or 3 year stint previously.

Loans obviously have their place but the balance with them and bringing through the academy was out in the last 3 years imo.

Ah I absolutely agree, hence why I thought Smith was a pointless signing when we have Vennings and Morgan at the club. It might be a detriment, but the players have to be good enough too. What players do you think have suffered because of Bowyer? League 1 clubs of course have to blend their youngsters in but we can't afford just to pick youngsters and hope a few progress well. With Euell involved in the first team you would think those who he thinks are good enough will step up a bit more. But if they are not good enough we cannot to take the risk or we'll be stuck in this league. 

ForeverAddickted

cafcfan1990 said:

On a different note Arsenal can't be happy. He was getting gametime at Swindon and now he's playing for our U23's. We've been a good place for their youngsters to come and most have been successful so it's a relationship I'd want us to keep sweet!

The only thing I'll add to that is Swindon sent him back rather than the fact that Arsenal recalled him to send to us... It was another thing that I found odd at the time, as remember Swindon fans being unhappy with Sheridan's decision to cancel the loan but keep others

cafcfan1990

ForeverAddickted said:

cafcfan1990 said:

On a different note Arsenal can't be happy. He was getting gametime at Swindon and now he's playing for our U23's. We've been a good place for their youngsters to come and most have been successful so it's a relationship I'd want us to keep sweet!

The only thing I'll add to that is Swindon sent him back rather than the fact that Arsenal recalled him to send to us... It was another thing that I found odd at the time, as remember Swindon fans being unhappy with Sheridan's decision to cancel the loan but keep others

True, but from an Arsenal perspective he was playing and now he's not. It's not even as if he's gone up a league and is getting the odd appearance, he's getting zero experience in the same league he was getting plenty. 

supaclive

He is no better than what we have and no way is he better or more effective than Morgan.
Let him go back.   Not needed.

Richard J

I thought I read somewhere that Swindon terminated the loan so similar to his namesake last season Arsenal may have been thankful to have another taker for him. 

cafcfan1990

Richard J said:

I thought I read somewhere that Swindon terminated the loan so similar to his namesake last season Arsenal may have been thankful to have another taker for him. 

But why? His wages would hardly be bankrupting them and he isn't developing playing for our 23's, he might aswell have stayed at Arsenal with better team mates and better coaching. 

Richard J

cafcfan1990 said:

Richard J said:

I thought I read somewhere that Swindon terminated the loan so similar to his namesake last season Arsenal may have been thankful to have another taker for him. 

But why? His wages would hardly be bankrupting them and he isn't developing playing for our 23's, he might aswell have stayed at Arsenal with better team mates and better coaching. 

Iirc it was because Shriden wanted different loanees. He got the young centre  back Masterson in from Qpr to fill their quota. The Swindon fans opposed the move especially when Masterson copt a season ending injury a couple of weeks later. 

cafcfan1990

Richard J said:

cafcfan1990 said:

Richard J said:

I thought I read somewhere that Swindon terminated the loan so similar to his namesake last season Arsenal may have been thankful to have another taker for him. 

But why? His wages would hardly be bankrupting them and he isn't developing playing for our 23's, he might aswell have stayed at Arsenal with better team mates and better coaching. 

Iirc it was because Shriden wanted different loanees. He got the young centre  back Masterson in from Qpr to fill their quota. The Swindon fans opposed the move especially when Masterson copt a season ending injury a couple of weeks later. 

Sorry I meant why would Arsenal have been thankful to get rid? I just can't see anyway in which Arsenal are happy with this. Just got to hope they understand with the manager change etc and it doesn't ruin the relationship. 

Richard J

cafcfan1990 said:

Richard J said:

cafcfan1990 said:

Richard J said:

I thought I read somewhere that Swindon terminated the loan so similar to his namesake last season Arsenal may have been thankful to have another taker for him. 

But why? His wages would hardly be bankrupting them and he isn't developing playing for our 23's, he might aswell have stayed at Arsenal with better team mates and better coaching. 

Iirc it was because Shriden wanted different loanees. He got the young centre  back Masterson in from Qpr to fill their quota. The Swindon fans opposed the move especially when Masterson copt a season ending injury a couple of weeks later. 

Sorry I meant why would Arsenal have been thankful to get rid? I just can't see anyway in which Arsenal are happy with this. Just got to hope they understand with the manager change etc and it doesn't ruin the relationship. 

I suspect that having played regularly for half a season he didn't want to go back to U23 football and Arsenal hoped he would play regularly with us  . I agree that they won't be happy that he hasn't kicked on .

On paper like his namesake a year earlier it was a desperate last minute move .

killerandflash

Any Brownie points the club gained for developing Bielik, Cullen and Gallagher will have been somewhat lessened by the failure of Smith, Levitt and Smith

th0rryy

killerandflash said:

Any Brownie points the club gained for developing Bielik, Cullen and Gallagher will have been somewhat lessened by the failure of Smith, Levitt and Smith

I dunno - I'd say Maatsen, Famewo and Millar have all benefitted from being with us. Stockley has put himself back in the shop window, particularly if clubs play into his strengths even more than we do.

Levitt was poor, imho. There's a reason he didn't go back out to an English side, and I feel it is because he wasn't strong enough. Smith was an odd, odd choice to bring in - I agree with many at the time that we should have probably picked up another CB instead. Couple of glimpses of good play, but Bowyer never fancied him and seemingly neither does Adkins. Smyth just wanted to go back to Accrington when he had the chance.

Bielik, Cullen and Gallagher all did well here and continue to do so now. Maybe you could argue Arsenal might be a little miffed about Smith, but Chelsea will likely keep sending us their players.

clive

Released by Arsenal

Our thanks and best wishes go to the following men’s players from our first team, under-18s and under-23s squads whose current contracts will officially end on June 30, 2023:

• Zach Awe
• Joel Ideho
• George Lewis
• Ainsley Maitland-Niles
• Matt Smith
• Tom Smith

https://www.arsenal.com/news/13-players-depart-end-their-contracts

killerandflash

Didn't go on loan last season, the nearest he got to senior football was 3 games for Arsenal U23 in the Pizza Cup...

Garrymanilow

Interesting he didn't get a loan last season. I don't know if Arsenal were hoping to get a fee for him before his contract expired and weren't sanctioning a short term move but it's odd that he just sat around for a whole season at a pretty significant developmental age. I wonder if Richie Wellens will pick him up for Leyton Orient

ForeverAddickted

Has signed for Wigan