That performance brought me back to the Slade days! Awful, one dimensional and clueless. Fleetwood played to the conditions and we looked like a team of strangers. If we don’t get a result on Tuesday then questions need to be asked! Season is over in my eyes!
Our big problem is we don't go out with a plan to win matches. We find our way and try to go a goal up. If we do that we slowly fall back and end up hanging on. If our opponents score first we go looking to get an equaliser. We have done ok at that this season, so when we get a lead, why don't we try for a second and then manage the game for a third?
Exactly this. We set up to counter the opposition all the time it's as if we are trying to out fox barcalona every week. Then when we score it all goes even more negative. I have said before imo this tactic cost us last season and ended up getting us relegated it really is depressing to watch
22 points from our last 19 matches - that's 35 points dropped.
I recall some saying at the start of this run that it was just a blip. It isn't and I just hope for those who lumped on us finishing in the top half of the table that we start to turn things around because, on the form dating back to the beginning of November, we are more likely to fail to do that than make the play offs.
I've still got them to win the fucking league. I think I will see what my cash in value is now 😞
Didn't buy the stream and only saw the goals on Sky earlier. Have just now watched the "highlights" posted on the Rolling Reels thread.
Just one meaningful effort at goal during 90 mins of football whereas Fleetwood had 4 or 5.
Dreadful. Fucking dreadful.
You don't win many games of football with those stats. Thing is, it's not new. Week in & week out we have very few attempts at goal & are often "out stat -ed" by our opponents. Something has to change.
Highlights don’t show how difficult the conditions were let’s not forget Fleetwood play in that weather and that pitch every home home game through the winter months so are use to it and know how to play it as the second half proved ... first half we done ok and deserved to go in at HT 1-0 ...
If you watched Liverpool v Everton .. they said Liverpool could not cope with the very windy conditions and affected the way they play .. this is a club who won champions League and title holders yet they said it was impossible to play football in these conditions ... now if it affected Liverpool sure it’s affected Charlton as well .... so said before it was a very good point when you look at the whole picture
The tide of support for Lee has definitely turned after today’s result. That could be the beginning of the end for him .
I've been critical of team selections, players played out of position, negative tactics etc but have always hoped he would turn it around, more for the feel good factor he brought back to our club a couple of years ago than anything else. Now it just seems a case of delaying the inevitable. Have only seen the highlights on sky but in two minutes I have seen appalling ball control & passing, Fleetwood players running into space with nobody tracking them, attackers in the danger area totally unmarked. Something is seriously wrong & LB doesn't seem to have any idea of how to turn things around. I think it's time he went & we brought someone in to plan for next season. Who ? Haven't the faintest but expect Ged Ruddy might have.
Didn't buy the stream and only saw the goals on Sky earlier. Have just now watched the "highlights" posted on the Rolling Reels thread.
Just one meaningful effort at goal during 90 mins of football whereas Fleetwood had 4 or 5.
Dreadful. Fucking dreadful.
You don't win many games of football with those stats. Thing is, it's not new. Week in & week out we have very few attempts at goal & are often "out stat -ed" by our opponents. Something has to change.
Highlights don’t show how difficult the conditions were let’s not forget Fleetwood play in that weather and that pitch every home home game through the winter months so are use to it and know how to play it as the second half proved ... first half we done ok and deserved to go in at HT 1-0 ...
If you watched Liverpool v Everton .. they said Liverpool could not cope with the very windy conditions and affected the way they play .. this is a club who won champions League and title holders yet they said it was impossible to play football in these conditions ... now if it affected Liverpool sure it’s affected Charlton as well .... so said before it was a very good point when you look at the whole picture
No they don't mate
Also it didn't affect Everton, so why should it affect Charlton? Or are we such a more cultured passing team? That's some take.
I am not critical of the second half. It was the first half where we let the game slip.
How can you not be critical of the second half? Yes, we were shit in the first half when we had a lead to defend and should have done so much better but in the second half we were beyond awful, probably the worst performance in a long time and there is a lot of competition under Bowyer for that "accolade".
To be honest I’m not surprised. That performance has been indicative of the types of performances we’ve been turning in for most of this season. That so many of us are now starting to react to it is the surprising thing for me. I don’t know what team some have been watching that makes you think any different. We went on a run of 6 games about 4 months ago now, and that’s it, there’s nothing else. 29 games in and we’re where we deserve to be.
The odd win in 3 or 4 gets some people excited again that we’re about to go on a run, but I said after beating Rochdale, it counts for nothing if we don’t follow it up with a win against Gillingham. We didn’t.
I see stuff about having a good team on paper and we should be getting better results, but do we? When you’ve got JFC coming in as one of your better performers over the last month or so, you know you’ve got problems. Everywhere I look I see mediocrity. We have a bit of individual talent, but collectively, it’s a sorry excuse for a team/squad.
I still think Bowyer is the best man for the job. He stuck around when it got ugly and no doubt could’ve walked away. I think he had to rush to put together a team in the summer given how TS took over, and again he only had a month in Jan. You can definitely argue he may be getting more out of the players and why he bought X and it hasn’t worked out, he hasn’t figured out the right line and right formation, however, for me, we just don’t have the players.
I want Bowyer to get the summer, but I will be very concerned if I see the likes of Pratley and JFC get offered contracts. That will be the litmus test for me. We need a clear out and we need to be quite ruthless about it
What really pisses me off is we play a team that has one win in 12 and it doesn't surprise me when we don't beat them. In fact I'm resigned to our shiteness. We've fallen so far in my estimations that there is no depth that seems out of reach. I used to get angry when we lost, but that is becoming indifference. Please, Lee, Thomas, Charlton, sort it. I long for the day when saying "I support Charlton" is respected and not pitied or ridiculed.
Bowyer totally misses the point. Yes, teams around us have had time to amass a squad & time to gel over the past couple of seasons.
BUT
Our team have enough about them to be able to string more than 2 passes together. Or to have a shot or two. It's not enough to say after every game its takes time for a squad to gel. That if that player hadn't been injured, or if the ref had done this or that. Time to shit or get off the pot.
Assessing the chances of a Top 6 finish.....
Bowyer Feb 2nd:
“I
think now, we have a squad that can compete. The five signings that
we’ve made has closed the gap from the teams above us. I’ve always said
there was a big gap. The only difference is their points advantage at
this stage is better than ours. If we can close that then great.
“But
I do believe now I have a squad that can compete with those better
sides, if you like. If we don’t finish in the top six then I won’t be
happy with that. I believe the lads we have in that dressing room now,
they’re all good lads. They’ll all want to fight for this club. It’s a
good starting point.”
Bowyer after today's garbage:
“It’s
starting to balance out a bit. We’re probably in and around where I
expected us at the start of the season. It’s going to be tough.
“Everybody
just expects because you’ve been relegated that you get straight back
up. It’s not like that. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.
There’s teams that have been building for the last two, three, four,
five years to try and get out of this division.
“We’ve had a lot of things that have happened to us in the last year to 18 months and we’ve had to rebuild. The squad now, today,
I think we can compete. The problem is that with teams’ head-starts, it
makes it more difficult. I still believe that if we do the right things
we’ll be in and around it.”
Doing 'the right things' starts with coaching, game prep, team selection and formation. Sadly, he doesn't seem to get it right.
Didn't buy the stream and only saw the goals on Sky earlier. Have just now watched the "highlights" posted on the Rolling Reels thread.
Just one meaningful effort at goal during 90 mins of football whereas Fleetwood had 4 or 5.
Dreadful. Fucking dreadful.
You don't win many games of football with those stats. Thing is, it's not new. Week in & week out we have very few attempts at goal & are often "out stat -ed" by our opponents. Something has to change.
Highlights don’t show how difficult the conditions were let’s not forget Fleetwood play in that weather and that pitch every home home game through the winter months so are use to it and know how to play it as the second half proved ... first half we done ok and deserved to go in at HT 1-0 ...
If you watched Liverpool v Everton .. they said Liverpool could not cope with the very windy conditions and affected the way they play .. this is a club who won champions League and title holders yet they said it was impossible to play football in these conditions ... now if it affected Liverpool sure it’s affected Charlton as well .... so said before it was a very good point when you look at the whole picture
Sorry, that's a load if crap & you defeated yourself with the Liverpool bit as Everton (if you didnt know) play their football just a stones throw away across Stanley Park so if they are used to it then so are Liverpool.
And Fleetwood don't play in those conditions every week Jeez, they are only on the West coast, along with Blackpool, Carlisle & Morecombe........not bloody Stornaway or the Outer Hebrides. If you happened to notice the wind was pretty strong everywhere today - even at West Brom, which is pretty much slap bang in the middle of the fecking country.
Anyone else pick up on Terry Smith’s commentary line ten or fifteen minutes after we scored? Amos was about to take a goal kick, and Bowyer shouted for him to ‘calm down’ or ‘slow it down’ or something? It’s this negative mind set: we’re one up, now let’s be ‘professional’ and see out the game.
Up to that point we’d looked lively, and if anyone was likely to score another goal it was probably us. After that, all the life seemed to be sucked out of us.
Just let them play football, and maybe stop interfering when it’s going ok.
Would like another look at the coverage to check, but it won’t be on Valley Pass I guess.
Anyone else pick up on Terry Smith’s commentary line ten or fifteen minutes after we scored? Amos was about to take a goal kick, and Bowyer shouted for him to ‘calm down’ or ‘slow it down’ or something? It’s this negative mind set: we’re one up, now let’s be ‘professional’ and see out the game.
Up to that point we’d looked lively, and if anyone was likely to score another goal it was probably us. After that, all the life seemed to be sucked out of us.
Just let them play football, and maybe stop interfering when it’s going ok.
Would like another look at the coverage to check, but it won’t be on Valley Pass I guess.
Yeah this has been a pattern for a while now. Go ahead in a game and then alter and change from what is working well. I agree just keep doing the things that work well and don't interfere. The first goal is important but with us if doesn't settle me as it should and how many times are we ahead only to concede especially late on over the last couple of seasons.
Our big problem is we don't go out with a plan to win matches. We find our way and try to go a goal up. If we do that we slowly fall back and end up hanging on. If our opponents score first we go looking to get an equaliser. We have done ok at that this season, so when we get a lead, why don't we try for a second and then manage the game for a third?
Exactly this. We set up to counter the opposition all the time it's as if we are trying to out fox barcalona every week. Then when we score it all goes even more negative. I have said before imo this tactic cost us last season and ended up getting us relegated it really is depressing to watch
This is it and is why it's time up for LB - the most confused person in the squad this morning must be Jaysemi - if ever there was a game for putting a pacey energetic player up top to feed off of stockley's knock downs, it was this one - instead we got watson and washington - ridiculous. I reckon Bowyer got a tactics book for Christmas 2019 and needs to put it in the bin, sharpish. 442, chucks and stockley up top, purrington back in and bench pratley and just start playing simple, pass and move football.
Didn't watch it, followed on the match thread and let's be honest, given our current typical performances that's all you need as it's pretty much rinse and repeat. Average to bad performances with the odd blinder thrown in.
No real issue with the team selection, mixing it up with Shinnie on the left was confusing, he's done alright at RM but then he's had a more experienced and better defensive fullback behind him there, out left in front of Maatsen he looked like an out of position creative CM.
*Sarcy comment time*
We'll be better once: We sign a decent forward in January
We Win our games in hand We Offload troublemaker Maddison We Offload passenger Williams
We get Watson's experience in the middle Schwartz starts banging them in
I am not critical of the second half. It was the first half where we let the game slip.
How can you not be critical of the second half? Yes, we were shit in the first half when we had a lead to defend and should have done so much better but in the second half we were beyond awful, probably the worst performance in a long time and there is a lot of competition under Bowyer for that "accolade".
In all my years watching professional football, playing and managing at a lower level, I have never ever seen a team benefit from playing against a wind like that, Never. You have to take advantage when the conditions are for you.
We had a dream start and sat back on it. The mindset of the manager has to factor in the wind we will be playing against in the second and try to get a good lead in the first. There was no reason we couldn't do what they did in the second in the first. Only the conservative negativity of the manager.
I am sure someone else may have picked up on this, so apologies if I am repeating, I have not read all the thread. It is just a general point.
Bowyer clearly likes players to play like he did, "combative" to put it politely. Which is fine, if you have one or two like that; trouble is, he wants ten. Which is why we have such a bad disciplinary record. Once players have done their bit to please him, and got a yellow - often in a situation where a tough challenge isn't really necessary - they have to ease off. Or, of course, they do it again and get a red.
In my opinion Bowyer has been struggling since last season, circumstances were dire so he got a lot of slack. Players refusing to play and a mountain of injuries but that is no excuse for poor tactics! Now we look soft, not bothered and unsure.
The times yesterday when we were trying to play out from the back which just wasn’t working as they were pressing us, after the third time of giving Fleetwood the ball outside our box I screamed at the TV!!
These players are not confident and this stems from the coaching and it showed for 90 minutes yesterday. That line up was good yesterday but other than Stockley, they looked awful! Give him til the end of the season then review it, with a full summer and decent budget maybe we can go again next season but a complete overhaul is needed and maybe some have downed tools already.
I’m usually close to right with my Charlton predictions but this season I was certain we’d make the play offs once the squad had arrived and we really look like we need a miracle for that to happen . Are the players that bad are they not playing to their maximum or is bowyer that bad and not getting them to perform to the maximum , it’s prolly a mixture of both . Whether he’s lost the dressing room or not the performances are way below par . What is being produced is utter shit and I’m of the opinion you have to gamble and it might take 2 steps back to go 3 or 4 forward ... Just like when Roland left I was happy to have (half got) rid of him and yes it was disastrous but it has got us to Sandgaard and that is a miracle of an owner . So if we get rid of Bowyer we give ourselves a chance of promotion this year and yes it could go crap but rather than standing still going nowhere we give ourselves a chance , gamble gamble gamble . Would anyone seriously have been confident on Bowyer achieving promotion with a wage cap when it’s more of a level playing field next year, not me the better coaches achieve the most with the same sort of players and I don’t believe he is one . He appears to have the up and at em Stuart Pearce mentality that works for a while but not the tactical nouse when it comes to outfoxing the other coaches . Maybe if we spend big Bowyer will drag us up but I’m not as sure as I would have been before these last 18 months .
These are the worse footballing times in Charltons football history we have never finished so many seasons below palace before , 14 and counting and next year we will equal our longest spell below the scum (6 seasons) since our first promotion in 1929 . 7 of the last 12 in The third tier , shocking .
Thomas Sandgaard deserves better , we’re Charlton fans as a collective so we deserve what we get .
0% Top two 20% 3rd-6th 70% 7th-12th 10% Bottom half
Didn't buy the stream and only saw the goals on Sky earlier. Have just now watched the "highlights" posted on the Rolling Reels thread.
Just one meaningful effort at goal during 90 mins of football whereas Fleetwood had 4 or 5.
Dreadful. Fucking dreadful.
You don't win many games of football with those stats. Thing is, it's not new. Week in & week out we have very few attempts at goal & are often "out stat -ed" by our opponents. Something has to change.
Highlights don’t show how difficult the conditions were let’s not forget Fleetwood play in that weather and that pitch every home home game through the winter months so are use to it and know how to play it as the second half proved ... first half we done ok and deserved to go in at HT 1-0 ...
If you watched Liverpool v Everton .. they said Liverpool could not cope with the very windy conditions and affected the way they play .. this is a club who won champions League and title holders yet they said it was impossible to play football in these conditions ... now if it affected Liverpool sure it’s affected Charlton as well .... so said before it was a very good point when you look at the whole picture
No they don't mate
Also it didn't affect Everton, so why should it affect Charlton? Or are we such a more cultured passing team? That's some take.
More importantly, the conditions didn't stop Fleetwood playing football.
Didn't buy the stream and only saw the goals on Sky earlier. Have just now watched the "highlights" posted on the Rolling Reels thread.
Just one meaningful effort at goal during 90 mins of football whereas Fleetwood had 4 or 5.
Dreadful. Fucking dreadful.
You don't win many games of football with those stats. Thing is, it's not new. Week in & week out we have very few attempts at goal & are often "out stat -ed" by our opponents. Something has to change.
Highlights don’t show how difficult the conditions were let’s not forget Fleetwood play in that weather and that pitch every home home game through the winter months so are use to it and know how to play it as the second half proved ... first half we done ok and deserved to go in at HT 1-0 ...
If you watched Liverpool v Everton .. they said Liverpool could not cope with the very windy conditions and affected the way they play .. this is a club who won champions League and title holders yet they said it was impossible to play football in these conditions ... now if it affected Liverpool sure it’s affected Charlton as well .... so said before it was a very good point when you look at the whole picture
No they don't mate
Also it didn't affect Everton, so why should it affect Charlton? Or are we such a more cultured passing team? That's some take.
More importantly, the conditions didn't stop Fleetwood playing football.
Fleetwood are more used to links football than we are
Arranging a zoom call with a mate, I told him Saturday afternoon and Tuesday evening were out because that's when I watch Charlton lose with my daughter. We're terrible at the moment, and we really shouldn't be. None of our players are worse than our average opponents and the likes of Stockley, Millar and Famewo are better. So what's going wrong? We don't see any academy players this season either except Morgan and Doughty, are they really not good enough? Because they looked alright in the cups when they were played. It's getting hard to identify with this team.
Comments
Bowyer's post match interview, he looked and sounded like he had nothing left. There was no spark at all.
I don't think any players were particularly bad, but they didn't look like a team
If you watched Liverpool v Everton .. they said Liverpool could not cope with the very windy conditions and affected the way they play .. this is a club who won champions League and title holders yet they said it was impossible to play football in these conditions ... now if it affected Liverpool sure it’s affected Charlton as well .... so said before it was a very good point when you look at the whole picture
Also it didn't affect Everton, so why should it affect Charlton? Or are we such a more cultured passing team? That's some take.
Yes, we were shit in the first half when we had a lead to defend and should have done so much better but in the second half we were beyond awful, probably the worst performance in a long time and there is a lot of competition under Bowyer for that "accolade".
Bizarre! How can nobody else see it
The odd win in 3 or 4 gets some people excited again that we’re about to go on a run, but I said after beating Rochdale, it counts for nothing if we don’t follow it up with a win against Gillingham. We didn’t.
I see stuff about having a good team on paper and we should be getting better results, but do we? When you’ve got JFC coming in as one of your better performers over the last month or so, you know you’ve got problems. Everywhere I look I see mediocrity. We have a bit of individual talent, but collectively, it’s a sorry excuse for a team/squad.
I still think Bowyer is the best man for the job. He stuck around when it got ugly and no doubt could’ve walked away. I think he had to rush to put together a team in the summer given how TS took over, and again he only had a month in Jan. You can definitely argue he may be getting more out of the players and why he bought X and it hasn’t worked out, he hasn’t figured out the right line and right formation, however, for me, we just don’t have the players.
I want Bowyer to get the summer, but I will be very concerned if I see the likes of Pratley and JFC get offered contracts. That will be the litmus test for me. We need a clear out and we need to be quite ruthless about it
And Fleetwood don't play in those conditions every week Jeez, they are only on the West coast, along with Blackpool, Carlisle & Morecombe........not bloody Stornaway or the Outer Hebrides. If you happened to notice the wind was pretty strong everywhere today - even at West Brom, which is pretty much slap bang in the middle of the fecking country.
It’s this negative mind set: we’re one up, now let’s be ‘professional’ and see out the game.
No real issue with the team selection, mixing it up with Shinnie on the left was confusing, he's done alright at RM but then he's had a more experienced and better defensive fullback behind him there, out left in front of Maatsen he looked like an out of position creative CM.
*Sarcy comment time*
We'll be better once:
We sign a decent forward in January
We Offload troublemaker Maddison
We Offload passenger Williams
Schwartz starts banging them in
Famewo comes back
We had a dream start and sat back on it. The mindset of the manager has to factor in the wind we will be playing against in the second and try to get a good lead in the first. There was no reason we couldn't do what they did in the second in the first. Only the conservative negativity of the manager.
Bowyer clearly likes players to play like he did, "combative" to put it politely. Which is fine, if you have one or two like that; trouble is, he wants ten. Which is why we have such a bad disciplinary record. Once players have done their bit to please him, and got a yellow - often in a situation where a tough challenge isn't really necessary - they have to ease off. Or, of course, they do it again and get a red.
Dont understand not bringing him on.
Are the players that bad are they not playing to their maximum or is bowyer that bad and not getting them to perform to the maximum , it’s prolly a mixture of both .
Whether he’s lost the dressing room or not the performances are way below par .
What is being produced is utter shit and I’m of the opinion you have to gamble and it might take 2 steps back to go 3 or 4 forward ...
Just like when Roland left I was happy to have (half got) rid of him and yes it was disastrous but it has got us to Sandgaard and that is a miracle of an owner .
So if we get rid of Bowyer we give ourselves a chance of promotion this year and yes it could go crap but rather than standing still going nowhere we give ourselves a chance , gamble gamble gamble .
Would anyone seriously have been confident on Bowyer achieving promotion with a wage cap when it’s more of a level playing field next year, not me the better coaches achieve the most with the same sort of players and I don’t believe he is one .
He appears to have the up and at em Stuart Pearce mentality that works for a while but not the tactical nouse when it comes to outfoxing the other coaches .
Maybe if we spend big Bowyer will drag us up but I’m not as sure as I would have been before these last 18 months .
These are the worse footballing times in Charltons football history we have never finished so many seasons below palace before , 14 and counting and next year we will equal our longest spell below the scum (6 seasons) since our first promotion in 1929 .
7 of the last 12 in The third tier , shocking .
Thomas Sandgaard deserves better , we’re Charlton fans as a collective so we deserve what we get .
0% Top two
20% 3rd-6th
70% 7th-12th
10% Bottom half
We don't see any academy players this season either except Morgan and Doughty, are they really not good enough? Because they looked alright in the cups when they were played. It's getting hard to identify with this team.