"The administrators had previously stated they needed to take further loans out to allow the club to fulfil their fixtures."
What bank would loan the money to a company in administration? I could never understand this!
A bank wouldn’t, but there are lots of alternative lenders out there, but would charge a penal rate of interest - that said, you would need big balls to lend them more money !!
But what collateral do they have if they default. Sorry, we went bust, you are not going to get your money, or here's Wayne Rooney, he'll do a PA for you??? You must be mad to do that with your money...
Could they have factored the money against money coming in such as next instalment of TV money?
It seems the loan they got was from the lender they owe a huge amount to, so the lender is probably calculating that they have a decent chance of getting more of their money back if Derby survive and get taken over, while they lose the lot if they pull the plug now.
It seems the loan they got was from the lender they owe a huge amount to, so the lender is probably calculating that they have a decent chance of getting more of their money back if Derby survive and get taken over, while they lose the lot if they pull the plug now.
Exactly, it’s the old story - if you owe the bank £1000, they’ve got you by the balls. If you owe them a million it’s the other way round.
"The administrators had previously stated they needed to take further loans out to allow the club to fulfil their fixtures."
What bank would loan the money to a company in administration? I could never understand this!
A bank wouldn’t, but there are lots of alternative lenders out there, but would charge a penal rate of interest - that said, you would need big balls to lend them more money !!
But what collateral do they have if they default. Sorry, we went bust, you are not going to get your money, or here's Wayne Rooney, he'll do a PA for you??? You must be mad to do that with your money...
Could they have factored the money against money coming in such as next instalment of TV money?
Seems unlikely to me. It would be creating a preference and go against the pari passu concept leading up to and during insolvency processes.
Am I right in thinking the administrators couldn't actually get rid of Rooney unless they pay up his contract? I know they might try and negotiate but if he dug his heels in and said he wanted paying off I assume he couldn't be made redundant with him being contracted for a set number of years?
Am I right in thinking the administrators couldn't actually get rid of Rooney unless they pay up his contract? I know they might try and negotiate but if he dug his heels in and said he wanted paying off I assume he couldn't be made redundant with him being contracted for a set number of years?
I’m not sure why not. He’s not playing staff. Having said that, if the agreement really is that someone else pays his wages, why get rid of him if you have to pay his replacement.
Am I right in thinking the administrators couldn't actually get rid of Rooney unless they pay up his contract? I know they might try and negotiate but if he dug his heels in and said he wanted paying off I assume he couldn't be made redundant with him being contracted for a set number of years?
They could try and use "public pressure" though. Morally, a fabulously wealthy individual like Rooney should surely consider whether his inflated salary could cause the demise of a major football club.
If that happened, his reputation in the game would be ruined forever
EXCLUSIVE: Derby face LIQUIDATION unless HMRC agree to write off more than £20MILLION of debt, prospective buyers fear... leaving club 'sleepwalking' towards oblivion
Derby County have been docked 21 points so far this season by the EFL
US businessman Chris Kirchner is the main party interested in a takeover
But prospective buyers of Derby fear the club is in danger of liquidation
Club owes around £29m to HMRC and total debts amount to almost £60m
Derby are currently bottom of the Championship, 19 points adrift of safety
No way will HMRC let a club off, as then everyone will want to have their tax bill reduced
EXCLUSIVE: Derby face LIQUIDATION unless HMRC agree to write off more than £20MILLION of debt, prospective buyers fear... leaving club 'sleepwalking' towards oblivion
Derby County have been docked 21 points so far this season by the EFL
US businessman Chris Kirchner is the main party interested in a takeover
But prospective buyers of Derby fear the club is in danger of liquidation
Club owes around £29m to HMRC and total debts amount to almost £60m
Derby are currently bottom of the Championship, 19 points adrift of safety
No way will HMRC let a club off, as then everyone will want to have their tax bill reduced
Other clubs and current and former players/managers must be lower down the pecking order than HMRC. If someone has to whistle for their money it surely has to be them rather than the taxman.
Not sure why the taxpayer should foot the bill for someone to inevitably come in and rescue Derby County and for them to carry on as if nothing has happened. I’ll actually be very annoyed if HMRC write this off. The country is paying for the financial consequences of a pandemic. £20 million pounds is not an insignificant sum of money to write off.
Complete non story. If any business doesn’t pay the taxman they will get closed down. Just negotiating strategy. Do hope the EFL make it clear that things aren’t sorted by end of the season, boot them out of the competition. Can’t be starting the new season with court cases or non playing matches like Bury.
HMRC can't take control of the ground or training ground if it's owned by a different legal entity than the one that owe the tax.
The EFL can't relegate them to the national league as they won't accept a club in administration.
If the club goes into liquidation the players contracts are null and void. There are no other meaningful assets. HMRC and "the football family" risk getting nothing.
£20 million is nothing in tax revenue terms, the tax gap (tax payable v tax paid) is about £35 billion a year. On a yield of over 800 billion. That doesn't include tax dodged by Amazon, Google etc.
There is no outcome that everyone will be happy with out of this mess.
Not sure why the taxpayer should foot the bill for someone to inevitably come in and rescue Derby County and for them to carry on as if nothing has happened. I’ll actually be very annoyed if HMRC write this off. The country is paying for the financial consequences of a pandemic. £20 million pounds is not an insignificant sum of money to write off.
The administrators might be hoping for this, but I can't see them having a cat in hells chance.
HMRC can't take control of the ground or training ground if it's owned by a different legal entity than the one that owe the tax.
The EFL can't relegate them to the national league as they won't accept a club in administration.
If the club goes into liquidation the players contracts are null and void. There are no other meaningful assets. HMRC and "the football family" risk getting nothing.
£20 million is nothing in tax revenue terms, the tax gap (tax payable v tax paid) is about £35 billion a year. On a yield of over 800 billion. That doesn't include tax dodged by Amazon, Google etc.
There is no outcome that everyone will be happy with out of this mess.
Let’s just let them off then. I hope Thomas is watching closely. Sign a load of very expensive players. Don’t bother with the PAYE. Get promoted on the quick. When HMRC ask for their money just cut a deal. I’ve absolutely no time or sympathy for any business that gets into trouble the way Derby County have. Cheating and duplicitous. Nail their bollox to the wall would be my solution after all £20 million isn’t very much at all apparently.
HMRC can't take control of the ground or training ground if it's owned by a different legal entity than the one that owe the tax.
The EFL can't relegate them to the national league as they won't accept a club in administration.
If the club goes into liquidation the players contracts are null and void. There are no other meaningful assets. HMRC and "the football family" risk getting nothing.
£20 million is nothing in tax revenue terms, the tax gap (tax payable v tax paid) is about £35 billion a year. On a yield of over 800 billion. That doesn't include tax dodged by Amazon, Google etc.
There is no outcome that everyone will be happy with out of this mess.
Let’s just let them off then. I hope Thomas is watching closely. Sign a load of very expensive players. Don’t bother with the PAYE. Get promoted on the quick. When HMRC ask for their money just cut a deal. I’ve absolutely no time or sympathy for any business that gets into trouble the way Derby County have. Cheating and duplicitous. Nail their bollox to the wall would be my solution after all £20 million isn’t very much at all apparently.
It isn't very much in terms of government spending and tax revenues, which is how you framed it.
The way its going no one, HMRC, arsenal, the players, the people that print the programs, countless other small businesses etc are going to get anything at all. Not a penny. And a city loses its football club. Not sure who wins in that scenario?
HMRC can't take control of the ground or training ground if it's owned by a different legal entity than the one that owe the tax.
The EFL can't relegate them to the national league as they won't accept a club in administration.
If the club goes into liquidation the players contracts are null and void. There are no other meaningful assets. HMRC and "the football family" risk getting nothing.
£20 million is nothing in tax revenue terms, the tax gap (tax payable v tax paid) is about £35 billion a year. On a yield of over 800 billion. That doesn't include tax dodged by Amazon, Google etc.
There is no outcome that everyone will be happy with out of this mess.
Let’s just let them off then. I hope Thomas is watching closely. Sign a load of very expensive players. Don’t bother with the PAYE. Get promoted on the quick. When HMRC ask for their money just cut a deal. I’ve absolutely no time or sympathy for any business that gets into trouble the way Derby County have. Cheating and duplicitous. Nail their bollox to the wall would be my solution after all £20 million isn’t very much at all apparently.
It isn't very much in terms of government spending and tax revenues, which is how you framed it.
The way its going no one, HMRC, arsenal, the players, the people that print the programs, countless other small businesses etc are going to get anything at all. Not a penny. And a city loses its football club. Not sure who wins in that scenario?
their owner when he sells the ground (that he bought off of the club) to developers.
HMRC can't take control of the ground or training ground if it's owned by a different legal entity than the one that owe the tax.
The EFL can't relegate them to the national league as they won't accept a club in administration.
If the club goes into liquidation the players contracts are null and void. There are no other meaningful assets. HMRC and "the football family" risk getting nothing.
£20 million is nothing in tax revenue terms, the tax gap (tax payable v tax paid) is about £35 billion a year. On a yield of over 800 billion. That doesn't include tax dodged by Amazon, Google etc.
There is no outcome that everyone will be happy with out of this mess.
Let’s just let them off then. I hope Thomas is watching closely. Sign a load of very expensive players. Don’t bother with the PAYE. Get promoted on the quick. When HMRC ask for their money just cut a deal. I’ve absolutely no time or sympathy for any business that gets into trouble the way Derby County have. Cheating and duplicitous. Nail their bollox to the wall would be my solution after all £20 million isn’t very much at all apparently.
It isn't very much in terms of government spending and tax revenues, which is how you framed it.
The way its going no one, HMRC, arsenal, the players, the people that print the programs, countless other small businesses etc are going to get anything at all. Not a penny. And a city loses its football club. Not sure who wins in that scenario?
HMRC will lose far more if they let Derby off their tax bill and thereby set a precedent. Btw can't the property deals be reversed if they've been engineered to swerve the taxman?
HMRC can't take control of the ground or training ground if it's owned by a different legal entity than the one that owe the tax.
The EFL can't relegate them to the national league as they won't accept a club in administration.
If the club goes into liquidation the players contracts are null and void. There are no other meaningful assets. HMRC and "the football family" risk getting nothing.
£20 million is nothing in tax revenue terms, the tax gap (tax payable v tax paid) is about £35 billion a year. On a yield of over 800 billion. That doesn't include tax dodged by Amazon, Google etc.
There is no outcome that everyone will be happy with out of this mess.
Let’s just let them off then. I hope Thomas is watching closely. Sign a load of very expensive players. Don’t bother with the PAYE. Get promoted on the quick. When HMRC ask for their money just cut a deal. I’ve absolutely no time or sympathy for any business that gets into trouble the way Derby County have. Cheating and duplicitous. Nail their bollox to the wall would be my solution after all £20 million isn’t very much at all apparently.
It isn't very much in terms of government spending and tax revenues, which is how you framed it.
The way its going no one, HMRC, arsenal, the players, the people that print the programs, countless other small businesses etc are going to get anything at all. Not a penny. And a city loses its football club. Not sure who wins in that scenario?
If HMRC let one club off their tax bill, that sets a precedent for every other club to spend more money on transfers and wages, and not pay their taxes
HMRC can't take control of the ground or training ground if it's owned by a different legal entity than the one that owe the tax.
The EFL can't relegate them to the national league as they won't accept a club in administration.
If the club goes into liquidation the players contracts are null and void. There are no other meaningful assets. HMRC and "the football family" risk getting nothing.
£20 million is nothing in tax revenue terms, the tax gap (tax payable v tax paid) is about £35 billion a year. On a yield of over 800 billion. That doesn't include tax dodged by Amazon, Google etc.
There is no outcome that everyone will be happy with out of this mess.
Let’s just let them off then. I hope Thomas is watching closely. Sign a load of very expensive players. Don’t bother with the PAYE. Get promoted on the quick. When HMRC ask for their money just cut a deal. I’ve absolutely no time or sympathy for any business that gets into trouble the way Derby County have. Cheating and duplicitous. Nail their bollox to the wall would be my solution after all £20 million isn’t very much at all apparently.
It isn't very much in terms of government spending and tax revenues, which is how you framed it.
The way its going no one, HMRC, arsenal, the players, the people that print the programs, countless other small businesses etc are going to get anything at all. Not a penny. And a city loses its football club. Not sure who wins in that scenario?
If HMRC let one club off their tax bill, that sets a precedent for every other club to spend more money on transfers and wages, and not pay their taxes
HMRC can't take control of the ground or training ground if it's owned by a different legal entity than the one that owe the tax.
The EFL can't relegate them to the national league as they won't accept a club in administration.
If the club goes into liquidation the players contracts are null and void. There are no other meaningful assets. HMRC and "the football family" risk getting nothing.
£20 million is nothing in tax revenue terms, the tax gap (tax payable v tax paid) is about £35 billion a year. On a yield of over 800 billion. That doesn't include tax dodged by Amazon, Google etc.
There is no outcome that everyone will be happy with out of this mess.
Let’s just let them off then. I hope Thomas is watching closely. Sign a load of very expensive players. Don’t bother with the PAYE. Get promoted on the quick. When HMRC ask for their money just cut a deal. I’ve absolutely no time or sympathy for any business that gets into trouble the way Derby County have. Cheating and duplicitous. Nail their bollox to the wall would be my solution after all £20 million isn’t very much at all apparently.
It isn't very much in terms of government spending and tax revenues, which is how you framed it.
The way its going no one, HMRC, arsenal, the players, the people that print the programs, countless other small businesses etc are going to get anything at all. Not a penny. And a city loses its football club. Not sure who wins in that scenario?
Man commits a crime and gets a prison sentence leaving a wife and three children with no husband, father or income. Does he get let off because there are no winners ? No of course not. You’ve already suggested £20 million isn’t very much worth bothering about. I beg to differ. It’s a lot of money and better off in the pockets of the NHS, Armed forces or Police service. Derby County are just another badly run, cheating business and deserve no more respect, sympathy or allowance given. If they can’t pay then do what would be done to any other business in the same situation.
HMRC can't take control of the ground or training ground if it's owned by a different legal entity than the one that owe the tax.
The EFL can't relegate them to the national league as they won't accept a club in administration.
If the club goes into liquidation the players contracts are null and void. There are no other meaningful assets. HMRC and "the football family" risk getting nothing.
£20 million is nothing in tax revenue terms, the tax gap (tax payable v tax paid) is about £35 billion a year. On a yield of over 800 billion. That doesn't include tax dodged by Amazon, Google etc.
There is no outcome that everyone will be happy with out of this mess.
Let’s just let them off then. I hope Thomas is watching closely. Sign a load of very expensive players. Don’t bother with the PAYE. Get promoted on the quick. When HMRC ask for their money just cut a deal. I’ve absolutely no time or sympathy for any business that gets into trouble the way Derby County have. Cheating and duplicitous. Nail their bollox to the wall would be my solution after all £20 million isn’t very much at all apparently.
It isn't very much in terms of government spending and tax revenues, which is how you framed it.
The way its going no one, HMRC, arsenal, the players, the people that print the programs, countless other small businesses etc are going to get anything at all. Not a penny. And a city loses its football club. Not sure who wins in that scenario?
If HMRC let one club off their tax bill, that sets a precedent for every other club to spend more money on transfers and wages, and not pay their taxes
It's not as clear cut as that though. The option isn't pay HMRC £20 million or carry on. They can't pay HMRC anything if they are liquidated or not, as it stands.
HMRC can't take control of the ground or training ground if it's owned by a different legal entity than the one that owe the tax.
The EFL can't relegate them to the national league as they won't accept a club in administration.
If the club goes into liquidation the players contracts are null and void. There are no other meaningful assets. HMRC and "the football family" risk getting nothing.
£20 million is nothing in tax revenue terms, the tax gap (tax payable v tax paid) is about £35 billion a year. On a yield of over 800 billion. That doesn't include tax dodged by Amazon, Google etc.
There is no outcome that everyone will be happy with out of this mess.
Let’s just let them off then. I hope Thomas is watching closely. Sign a load of very expensive players. Don’t bother with the PAYE. Get promoted on the quick. When HMRC ask for their money just cut a deal. I’ve absolutely no time or sympathy for any business that gets into trouble the way Derby County have. Cheating and duplicitous. Nail their bollox to the wall would be my solution after all £20 million isn’t very much at all apparently.
It isn't very much in terms of government spending and tax revenues, which is how you framed it.
The way its going no one, HMRC, arsenal, the players, the people that print the programs, countless other small businesses etc are going to get anything at all. Not a penny. And a city loses its football club. Not sure who wins in that scenario?
Man commits a crime and gets a prison sentence leaving a wife and three children with no husband, father or income. Does he get let off because there are no winners ? No of course not. You’ve already suggested £20 million isn’t very much worth bothering about. I beg to differ. It’s a lot of money and better off in the pockets of the NHS, Armed forces or Police service. Derby County are just another badly run, cheating business and deserve no more respect, sympathy or allowance given. If they can’t pay then do what would be done to any other business in the same situation.
Which is what happens to other businesses, HMRC will push for liquidation if its the best way to get as much of the tax as possible. There is literally nothing to liquidate.
HMRC can't take control of the ground or training ground if it's owned by a different legal entity than the one that owe the tax.
The EFL can't relegate them to the national league as they won't accept a club in administration.
If the club goes into liquidation the players contracts are null and void. There are no other meaningful assets. HMRC and "the football family" risk getting nothing.
£20 million is nothing in tax revenue terms, the tax gap (tax payable v tax paid) is about £35 billion a year. On a yield of over 800 billion. That doesn't include tax dodged by Amazon, Google etc.
There is no outcome that everyone will be happy with out of this mess.
Let’s just let them off then. I hope Thomas is watching closely. Sign a load of very expensive players. Don’t bother with the PAYE. Get promoted on the quick. When HMRC ask for their money just cut a deal. I’ve absolutely no time or sympathy for any business that gets into trouble the way Derby County have. Cheating and duplicitous. Nail their bollox to the wall would be my solution after all £20 million isn’t very much at all apparently.
It isn't very much in terms of government spending and tax revenues, which is how you framed it.
The way its going no one, HMRC, arsenal, the players, the people that print the programs, countless other small businesses etc are going to get anything at all. Not a penny. And a city loses its football club. Not sure who wins in that scenario?
If HMRC let one club off their tax bill, that sets a precedent for every other club to spend more money on transfers and wages, and not pay their taxes
It's not as clear cut as that though. The option isn't pay HMRC £20 million or carry on. They can't pay HMRC anything if they are liquidated or not, as it stands.
They might feel that the loss of £20m is worth it to ensure clubs in the future don't try the same thing
Lets face it, most people didn't notice Bury going under. Wayne Rooney's Derby County closing would send shockwaves through football
Comments
If that happened, his reputation in the game would be ruined forever
No way will HMRC let a club off, as then everyone will want to have their tax bill reduced
👎🏻
The EFL can't relegate them to the national league as they won't accept a club in administration.
If the club goes into liquidation the players contracts are null and void. There are no other meaningful assets. HMRC and "the football family" risk getting nothing.
£20 million is nothing in tax revenue terms, the tax gap (tax payable v tax paid) is about £35 billion a year. On a yield of over 800 billion. That doesn't include tax dodged by Amazon, Google etc.
There is no outcome that everyone will be happy with out of this mess.
The way its going no one, HMRC, arsenal, the players, the people that print the programs, countless other small businesses etc are going to get anything at all. Not a penny. And a city loses its football club. Not sure who wins in that scenario?
At least the Palace fans clubbed together to pay their bill when Jordan bailed out.
Lets face it, most people didn't notice Bury going under. Wayne Rooney's Derby County closing would send shockwaves through football