Not enough praise in this thread for Rooney IMO. I've not got much sympathy for the Derby owners for how they've ended up in this state, but plenty for their fans. Would not have been surprised if they'd gone down without much of a fight, but the manager has clearly got them fighting for every win
He deserves every manager award going if he keeps them up
Do they have a lot of Serbian fans? How can the EFL have a vendetta against them? They got away with so much for so long and are finally facing the music
Not enough praise in this thread for Rooney IMO. I've not got much sympathy for the Derby owners for how they've ended up in this state, but plenty for their fans. Would not have been surprised if they'd gone down without much of a fight, but the manager has clearly got them fighting for every win
He deserves every manager award going if he keeps them up
Probably deserves it anyway for managing to keep Ravel Morrison interested for so long
Derby owe Wycombe. They deliberately withheld their accounts knowing that if they submitted them the points would have been deducted immediately and they would have been relegated and Wycombe would have stayed up. The EFL made provisions by drawing up two fixture lists, but the accounts still did not come in and the season kicked off. There is no doubt in my mind that Derby officials wanted the points deduction in the Championship and manipulated matters to ensure that happened. Now Wycombe are being put in the spotlight and pressure is being applied. They didn’t give a shit about them and had no compulsion about dropping them a league with no idea how they would cope financially. I hope they stick out for the amount they want in settlement. Middlesborough are being put in the spotlight as well, but nobody appears to be calling out the administrators. I would also be interested in who owns the ground. Wasn’t it worth £60m? Is this being thrown in or is the owner wanting some money for it? Not sure why creditors/those with claims should forgive anything when ex owners and Directors are getting money back. However this turns out, Derby must be relegated. They cheated again to stay up and they should be charged and have further points deducted.
After reading the article, I’m mystified what Derby fans and the administrators want the EFL to do - apart from just let them sign players they can’t afford.
I’m assuming the Middlesbrough and Wycombe cases are legal, so nothing the EFL can do other than encourage the parties to settle out of court, but the administrators seem to be opposed to that. If they uncertainty around the outcome of the two cases is putting off buyers, only the administrators can resolve that.
After reading the article, I’m mystified what Derby fans and the administrators want the EFL to do - apart from just let them sign players they can’t afford.
I’m assuming the Middlesbrough and Wycombe cases are legal, so nothing the EFL can do other than encourage the parties to settle out of court, but the administrators seem to be opposed to that. If they uncertainty around the outcome of the two cases is putting off buyers, only the administrators can resolve that.
The administrators wanted the EFL to rule that the claims from the two Clubs were not “football debts”. If they had ruled in Derby’s favour then they would not have to pay them anything. As they have lost they are now threatening Court action to have this decision overturned.
The Wycombe owner has traveled over from the USA a couple of times to negotiate and the Administrators have met him but offered nothing. The current campaign seems to me to be nothing more than an attempt to put public pressure on those two Clubs to drop the claims whilst also making them the scapegoats for any failure in getting a deal. I suspect that negotiations will now go ahead and they have put them in a much poorer negotiating position by their actions. The Wycombe owner is a well known and respected lawyer in the USA and will be used to accepting that negotiating is a fact of life. I am not sure SG at Middlesbrough is quite as mailable. Time is running out.
As an aside, I am surprised that the administrators have turned down a bid from Millwall of £450k for one of their young prospects.
Twitter campaign last night by Derby fans to draw attention to their campaign.
I know it is not the fans fault, but it is hard to feel sympathy when their club cheated again and again to the detriment of clubs around them.
No club should liquidate, but I'd have no issue with a double relegation for Derby.
Yeah, I went to University in Derby and saw them play a few times. I like the place, I don't have any problems with the fans or the club itself but they've basically been putting off the inevitable consequences of their own actions so long now I have no sympathy left.
If there had been any acknowledgement that just maybe their own actions caused this or even a defence that isn't basically "other clubs got away with it" it might be different. But as it stands, basically, fuck that.
They really should just impose an automatic relegation for any side found guilty of financial irregularities or going into administration.
How can you literally delay the submission of your accounts because you know that should you submit them, then you will be found to have broken rules and deducted points that will relegate you............and yet still stay in the same division.
They really should just impose an automatic relegation for any side found guilty of financial irregularities or going into administration.
How can you literally delay the submission of your accounts because you know that should you submit them, then you will be found to have broken rules and deducted points that will relegate you............and yet still stay in the same division.
They don’t even need to go that far. They just need to take control and be in control.
They could have avoided all these problems with Derby and Sheffield Wednesday if they set deadlines with penalties, and apply penalties immediately. Only withdraw them if an appeal is successful. i.e they should have deducted the points from Derby. The Club then has to get its finger out to get the evidence in for an appeal. Derby had the accounts ready, but chose to withhold them until the season had started so they were not relegated. Farcical. They also knew they were going into administration. This is not a fantastic story about Wayne Rooney’s Derby County. It is a sickening abuse of the system to cheat other Clubs, players and fans. They have also deducted PAYE and NIC and spent it on themselves. Our National Health service needs that money.
They really should just impose an automatic relegation for any side found guilty of financial irregularities or going into administration.
How can you literally delay the submission of your accounts because you know that should you submit them, then you will be found to have broken rules and deducted points that will relegate you............and yet still stay in the same division.
They don’t even need to go that far. They just need to take control and be in control.
They could have avoided all these problems with Derby and Sheffield Wednesday if they set deadlines with penalties, and apply penalties immediately. Only withdraw them if an appeal is successful. i.e they should have deducted the points from Derby. The Club then has to get its finger out to get the evidence in for an appeal. Derby had the accounts ready, but chose to withhold them until the season had started so they were not relegated. Farcical. They also knew they were going into administration. This is not a fantastic story about Wayne Rooney’s Derby County. It is a sickening abuse of the system to cheat other Clubs, players and fans. They have also deducted PAYE and NIC and spent it on themselves. Our National Health service needs that money.
Excellent debate, with speakers from both sides of the House putting pressure on the DCMS to get on with bringing forth legislation to enact the recommendations of the Fan Led Review. Includes a contribution from Clive Efford MP.
Maybe something for @PragueAddick to link on the Charlton Dossier Twitter site?
Excellent debate, with speakers from both sides of the House putting pressure on the DCMS to get on with bringing forth legislation to enact the recommendations of the Fan Led Review. Includes a contribution from Clive Efford MP.
Maybe something for @PragueAddick to link on the Charlton Dossier Twitter site?
I only got through about 7 seconds on that as he was talking about palace, I had to turn it off to be violently sick
Wow 😮 I said I did not think SG would be mailable but this shows how angry he is, and I don’t blame him. The Wycombe owner is saying much the same thing and it is disgraceful that they are dragging the reputation of two good clubs down in order to pressurise them in to giving up money they consider is due to them. Taking it out into the public domain like this has pushed that pressure back on them and could unite the two owners and get them working together. The administrators fees are being questioned by the Wycombe owner and he asked about the ground as well. It has suddenly got very messy with 10 days to go.
Last time I went on the Derby fans forum (admittedly 3-4mo this ago) they were in general agreement that they did not want Mike Ashley to buy them. I thought they were deluded. Still do. Club has cheated and if they stay up this season it will be because they are playing players they have not paid for, it feels wrong. Should be relegated at least one spot if not two. I don't believe their fans gave a shit even though it was clear there was a very high chance of it all ending in disaster.
Last time I went on the Derby fans forum (admittedly 3-4mo this ago) they were in general agreement that they did not want Mike Ashley to buy them. I thought they were deluded. Still do. Club has cheated and if they stay up this season it will be because they are playing players they have not paid for, it feels wrong. Should be relegated at least one spot if not two. I don't believe their fans gave a shit even though it was clear there was a very high chance of it all ending in disaster.
I've had a few looks at their forum and never got the impression there was a sense of urgency to the situation. Not surprised it's come to this debt and no assets is a bad situation to be in.
Absolute bollocks about Wycombe and Middlesbrough there. They should just drop their case because derby have been caught cheating?
I generally find myself agreeing with most things Gary Neville has to say about football but completely disagree with him on this.
Derby cheated the system. Pure and simple. They gambled that this cheating would get them to the Premier League and came close to it paying off, but it didn't. That's the perils of high risk rolls of the dice, the rewards are great if it works out, the consequences of it not working out are massive.
Of course Derby fans are angry and I've no doubt the fans of any club would be rallying like their fans are. However the fans have blind loyalty to their clubs (quite rightly) and therefore they are simply not impartial.
To any impartial observer it seems clear that Derby's cheating has significantly impacted both Boro and Wycombe and they should be fairly recompensed for that. The idea that Steve Gibson, who has ploughed millions of his own money into Boro, and Wycombe who seem to be run very sustainably by their owners, should just give up and walk away is almost laughable. The idea Boro and Wycombe want Derby to go out of existence is a nonsense, they simply want compensation for the damage inflicted to their clubs by Derby's cheating. Lets not forget Wycombe would be a championship club still if proper action had been taken against Derby at the time.
Neville was right about one thing, no fan should face losing their football club. But Derby fans should be focusing their attention on their disgrace of an ex owner who has got them into this position and then just washed his hands of them. The fact he also still owns the stadium stinks, no doubt he will be looking to make a profit out of any sale or rental agreement to try and recoup his losses. I imagine it is that which probably frustrates Boro and Wycombe so much and makes them feel entitled to continue with their claims.
Absolute bollocks about Wycombe and Middlesbrough there. They should just drop their case because derby have been caught cheating?
I generally find myself agreeing with most things Gary Neville has to say about football but completely disagree with him on this.
Derby cheated the system. Pure and simple. They gambled that this cheating would get them to the Premier League and came close to it paying off, but it didn't. That's the perils of high risk rolls of the dice, the rewards are great if it works out, the consequences of it not working out are massive.
Of course Derby fans are angry and I've no doubt the fans of any club would be rallying like their fans are. However the fans have blind loyalty to their clubs (quite rightly) and therefore they are simply not impartial.
To any impartial observer it seems clear that Derby's cheating has significantly impacted both Boro and Wycombe and they should be fairly recompensed for that. The idea that Steve Gibson, who has ploughed millions of his own money into Boro, and Wycombe who seem to be run very sustainably by their owners, should just give up and walk away is almost laughable. The idea Boro and Wycombe want Derby to go out of existence is a nonsense, they simply want compensation for the damage inflicted to their clubs by Derby's cheating. Lets not forget Wycombe would be a championship club still if proper action had been taken against Derby at the time.
Neville was right about one thing, no fan should face losing their football club. But Derby fans should be focusing their attention on their disgrace of an ex owner who has got them into this position and then just washed his hands of them. The fact he also still owns the stadium stinks, no doubt he will be looking to make a profit out of any sale or rental agreement to try and recoup his losses. I imagine it is that which probably frustrates Boro and Wycombe so much and makes them feel entitled to continue with their claims.
Neville either doesn't know about or chooses to skirt over the bits where Derby withheld their accounts submissions. They tried to cheat the system over and over. The irony too of someone like Neville who has made millions, both as a player and a pundit, from the Premier League and its coverage. The Premier League is the crux of the problem. The rampant overspending to get there and the insane wages which have trickled down the pyramid are destroying these clubs. Add to that the fact that most Premier League chairmans wouldn't bat an eyelid if the Derby folded. Start with Man Utd Gaz and stop telling them to pay someone like Pogba £300k a week. That might start helping football a bit more.
Neville contradicts himself. In one breath he says that football is like any other business & if administrators can't find a buyer then it has to fold. Then a minute later he's spouting off about how football is NOT like any other business. I agree that stadiums & training grounds should be seen differently to other business premises though
Former players rarely have informative comments to make about these situations, because they don't actually understand or want to understand what is going on. And usually just stick to the cliches about the fans being the ones who suffer most, etc.
Wow 😮 I said I did not think SG would be mailable but this shows how angry he is, and I don’t blame him. The Wycombe owner is saying much the same thing and it is disgraceful that they are dragging the reputation of two good clubs down in order to pressurise them in to giving up money they consider is due to them. Taking it out into the public domain like this has pushed that pressure back on them and could unite the two owners and get them working together. The administrators fees are being questioned by the Wycombe owner and he asked about the ground as well. It has suddenly got very messy with 10 days to go.
I thought the Wigan administrators were a disgrace, the way the process went on forever.
In this situation, if they don't do their job properly (i.e. by not contacting Steve Gibson promptly) they get more money as the process takes longer, which seems very wrong.
Derby County's administrators Quantuma are set for talks with the English Football League on Tuesday following "positive developments" over the Championship club's future. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60105675
Comments
Have they paid Arsenal yet for Biliek....?
The EFL made provisions by drawing up two fixture lists, but the accounts still did not come in and the season kicked off.
There is no doubt in my mind that Derby officials wanted the points deduction in the Championship and manipulated matters to ensure that happened.
Now Wycombe are being put in the spotlight and pressure is being applied. They didn’t give a shit about them and had no compulsion about dropping them a league with no idea how they would cope financially. I hope they stick out for the amount they want in settlement.
Middlesborough are being put in the spotlight as well, but nobody appears to be calling out the administrators.
I would also be interested in who owns the ground. Wasn’t it worth £60m? Is this being thrown in or is the owner wanting some money for it? Not sure why creditors/those with claims should forgive anything when ex owners and Directors are getting money back.
However this turns out, Derby must be relegated. They cheated again to stay up and they should be charged and have further points deducted.
Let's hope they pay the price for this deceit and dishonesty.
As they have lost they are now threatening Court action to have this decision overturned.
The current campaign seems to me to be nothing more than an attempt to put public pressure on those two Clubs to drop the claims whilst also making them the scapegoats for any failure in getting a deal.
I suspect that negotiations will now go ahead and they have put them in a much poorer negotiating position by their actions.
The Wycombe owner is a well known and respected lawyer in the USA and will be used to accepting that negotiating is a fact of life. I am not sure SG at Middlesbrough is quite as mailable.
Time is running out.
As an aside, I am surprised that the administrators have turned down a bid from Millwall of £450k for one of their young prospects.
I know it is not the fans fault, but it is hard to feel sympathy when their club cheated again and again to the detriment of clubs around them.
No club should liquidate, but I'd have no issue with a double relegation for Derby.
If there had been any acknowledgement that just maybe their own actions caused this or even a defence that isn't basically "other clubs got away with it" it might be different. But as it stands, basically, fuck that.
How can you literally delay the submission of your accounts because you know that should you submit them, then you will be found to have broken rules and deducted points that will relegate you............and yet still stay in the same division.
i.e they should have deducted the points from Derby. The Club then has to get its finger out to get the evidence in for an appeal. Derby had the accounts ready, but chose to withhold them until the season had started so they were not relegated. Farcical.
They also knew they were going into administration. This is not a fantastic story about Wayne Rooney’s Derby County. It is a sickening abuse of the system to cheat other Clubs, players and fans.
They have also deducted PAYE and NIC and spent it on themselves. Our National Health service needs that money.
is he still pocketing £70k a week?
Maybe something for @PragueAddick to link on the Charlton Dossier Twitter site?
I said I did not think SG would be mailable but this shows how angry he is, and I don’t blame him. The Wycombe owner is saying much the same thing and it is disgraceful that they are dragging the reputation of two good clubs down in order to pressurise them in to giving up money they consider is due to them.
Taking it out into the public domain like this has pushed that pressure back on them and could unite the two owners and get them working together.
The administrators fees are being questioned by the Wycombe owner and he asked about the ground as well.
It has suddenly got very messy with 10 days to go.
A wealthy US family, based in New England, have made a formal offer to buy Championship club Derby County.
The Binnies, founders of investment company Carlisle Capital, have submitted a bid of about £28m.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60085954
Derby cheated the system. Pure and simple. They gambled that this cheating would get them to the Premier League and came close to it paying off, but it didn't. That's the perils of high risk rolls of the dice, the rewards are great if it works out, the consequences of it not working out are massive.
Of course Derby fans are angry and I've no doubt the fans of any club would be rallying like their fans are. However the fans have blind loyalty to their clubs (quite rightly) and therefore they are simply not impartial.
To any impartial observer it seems clear that Derby's cheating has significantly impacted both Boro and Wycombe and they should be fairly recompensed for that. The idea that Steve Gibson, who has ploughed millions of his own money into Boro, and Wycombe who seem to be run very sustainably by their owners, should just give up and walk away is almost laughable. The idea Boro and Wycombe want Derby to go out of existence is a nonsense, they simply want compensation for the damage inflicted to their clubs by Derby's cheating. Lets not forget Wycombe would be a championship club still if proper action had been taken against Derby at the time.
Neville was right about one thing, no fan should face losing their football club. But Derby fans should be focusing their attention on their disgrace of an ex owner who has got them into this position and then just washed his hands of them. The fact he also still owns the stadium stinks, no doubt he will be looking to make a profit out of any sale or rental agreement to try and recoup his losses. I imagine it is that which probably frustrates Boro and Wycombe so much and makes them feel entitled to continue with their claims.
I thought the Wigan administrators were a disgrace, the way the process went on forever.
In this situation, if they don't do their job properly (i.e. by not contacting Steve Gibson promptly) they get more money as the process takes longer, which seems very wrong.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60105675