How can transfer fees owed to another football club for players not be football related debts?
Ah don't worry ignore me it's for the compensation claims for going down/missing out on playoffs.
Still, absolutely football related!
I think part of the problem with the claims is that they have not been quantified either by agreement or through the Courts. A new owner is going to be understandably worried about this and I find it a bit strange that the Administrators are being so slow in negotiating on these. Their policy seems to be to ignore and hope they go away whilst drumming up pressure on the two clubs by blaming them for Derby not being sold. Good statement from the EFL.
As Revenue and Customs are preferential creditors for the PAYE and NIC debt of £30m, surely the offer of £26m does not even touch the sides. I think the public deserves to know how much of their money is being thrown away.
They still owe Arsenal about 8m for Bielik as well.
Does anyone know how much Middlesbrough and Wycombe are asking for roughly? Obviously if that figure isn't known or agreed first then no one is going to buy them. Hardly likely to buy them and then find out a month later you have to give both clubs 7-8m each.
The matters regarding Derby's finances and its issues with the EFL rules are out there in the public domain and plain for all to see and make a judgement on.
What I am less sure about is how the administrators got appointed. I assume they were "competitive".
While Quantuma has only existed since the middle of 2020, the individuals working there are going to be licensed insolvency practitioners but how much experience do they have? Especially in unique matters like dealing with the rules of the EFL. By the firm's own admission a very high percentage of its staff are new to it. How good are they? How come a significant and well-known business like The Derby County Football Club Ltd ended up with a fledgling insolvency firm?
Why didn't Derby County use someone like BegbiesTraynor for example? Because, at the moment, from a bystander's point of view, it is very difficult to see quite what progress Quantuma are making with this administration. Apart from collecting their fees of course.
Morris believes his proposal would "unlock the impasse" over Derby's sale.
He said: "I invite Boro, and in due course Wycombe if they so wish, to take their claims to the High Court against me personally.
"Let Derby County move on for the benefit of the fans, the city of Derby, the sport and the EFL."
Morris, who still owns Pride Park, put the club into administration in September and they have since been deducted 21 points, leaving them seven points from safety in the Championship.
It has been suggested a total payment of about £7m would settle the issues involving Middlesbrough and Wycombe which are partly holding up the sale of the club.
Boro missed out on the play-offs to Derby by a point in 2019 while the Chairboys would have stayed up last season had the cases against the Rams been dealt with sooner.
"I sincerely hope the EFL, Boro and Wycombe will respond urgently and constructively to my proposal to unlock the impasse," Morris added.
"By preserving the rights of these parties to pursue their claims through the High Court, I can see no reason why the EFL cannot allow Derby County to exit administration without issue or concern that it would be contrary to their rules, articles and insolvency policy.
"I have informed Quantuma of my proposal so they may discuss it with the EFL, Boro, Wycombe and potential bidders."
The EFL said it would review Morris' proposal before considering its position and responding.
"In the meantime, as per Thursday's statement, the offer to engage with Mr Morris and all other stakeholders remains in place as we seek to find the compromises required to protect Derby County in the long-term," the EFL added.
Morris believes his proposal would "unlock the impasse" over Derby's sale.
He said: "I invite Boro, and in due course Wycombe if they so wish, to take their claims to the High Court against me personally.
"Let Derby County move on for the benefit of the fans, the city of Derby, the sport and the EFL."
Morris, who still owns Pride Park, put the club into administration in September and they have since been deducted 21 points, leaving them seven points from safety in the Championship.
It has been suggested a total payment of about £7m would settle the issues involving Middlesbrough and Wycombe which are partly holding up the sale of the club.
Boro missed out on the play-offs to Derby by a point in 2019 while the Chairboys would have stayed up last season had the cases against the Rams been dealt with sooner.
"I sincerely hope the EFL, Boro and Wycombe will respond urgently and constructively to my proposal to unlock the impasse," Morris added.
"By preserving the rights of these parties to pursue their claims through the High Court, I can see no reason why the EFL cannot allow Derby County to exit administration without issue or concern that it would be contrary to their rules, articles and insolvency policy.
"I have informed Quantuma of my proposal so they may discuss it with the EFL, Boro, Wycombe and potential bidders."
The EFL said it would review Morris' proposal before considering its position and responding.
"In the meantime, as per Thursday's statement, the offer to engage with Mr Morris and all other stakeholders remains in place as we seek to find the compromises required to protect Derby County in the long-term," the EFL added.
His business is bankrupt. He should not have any money left to settle.
Morris believes his proposal would "unlock the impasse" over Derby's sale.
He said: "I invite Boro, and in due course Wycombe if they so wish, to take their claims to the High Court against me personally.
"Let Derby County move on for the benefit of the fans, the city of Derby, the sport and the EFL."
Morris, who still owns Pride Park, put the club into administration in September and they have since been deducted 21 points, leaving them seven points from safety in the Championship.
It has been suggested a total payment of about £7m would settle the issues involving Middlesbrough and Wycombe which are partly holding up the sale of the club.
Boro missed out on the play-offs to Derby by a point in 2019 while the Chairboys would have stayed up last season had the cases against the Rams been dealt with sooner.
"I sincerely hope the EFL, Boro and Wycombe will respond urgently and constructively to my proposal to unlock the impasse," Morris added.
"By preserving the rights of these parties to pursue their claims through the High Court, I can see no reason why the EFL cannot allow Derby County to exit administration without issue or concern that it would be contrary to their rules, articles and insolvency policy.
"I have informed Quantuma of my proposal so they may discuss it with the EFL, Boro, Wycombe and potential bidders."
The EFL said it would review Morris' proposal before considering its position and responding.
"In the meantime, as per Thursday's statement, the offer to engage with Mr Morris and all other stakeholders remains in place as we seek to find the compromises required to protect Derby County in the long-term," the EFL added.
His business is bankrupt. He should not have any money left to settle.
Morris believes his proposal would "unlock the impasse" over Derby's sale.
He said: "I invite Boro, and in due course Wycombe if they so wish, to take their claims to the High Court against me personally.
"Let Derby County move on for the benefit of the fans, the city of Derby, the sport and the EFL."
Morris, who still owns Pride Park, put the club into administration in September and they have since been deducted 21 points, leaving them seven points from safety in the Championship.
It has been suggested a total payment of about £7m would settle the issues involving Middlesbrough and Wycombe which are partly holding up the sale of the club.
Boro missed out on the play-offs to Derby by a point in 2019 while the Chairboys would have stayed up last season had the cases against the Rams been dealt with sooner.
"I sincerely hope the EFL, Boro and Wycombe will respond urgently and constructively to my proposal to unlock the impasse," Morris added.
"By preserving the rights of these parties to pursue their claims through the High Court, I can see no reason why the EFL cannot allow Derby County to exit administration without issue or concern that it would be contrary to their rules, articles and insolvency policy.
"I have informed Quantuma of my proposal so they may discuss it with the EFL, Boro, Wycombe and potential bidders."
The EFL said it would review Morris' proposal before considering its position and responding.
"In the meantime, as per Thursday's statement, the offer to engage with Mr Morris and all other stakeholders remains in place as we seek to find the compromises required to protect Derby County in the long-term," the EFL added.
His business is bankrupt. He should not have any money left to settle.
Mel made £600m from the sale of Candy Crush. He's got plenty left......
Morris believes his proposal would "unlock the impasse" over Derby's sale.
He said: "I invite Boro, and in due course Wycombe if they so wish, to take their claims to the High Court against me personally.
"Let Derby County move on for the benefit of the fans, the city of Derby, the sport and the EFL."
Morris, who still owns Pride Park, put the club into administration in September and they have since been deducted 21 points, leaving them seven points from safety in the Championship.
It has been suggested a total payment of about £7m would settle the issues involving Middlesbrough and Wycombe which are partly holding up the sale of the club.
Boro missed out on the play-offs to Derby by a point in 2019 while the Chairboys would have stayed up last season had the cases against the Rams been dealt with sooner.
"I sincerely hope the EFL, Boro and Wycombe will respond urgently and constructively to my proposal to unlock the impasse," Morris added.
"By preserving the rights of these parties to pursue their claims through the High Court, I can see no reason why the EFL cannot allow Derby County to exit administration without issue or concern that it would be contrary to their rules, articles and insolvency policy.
"I have informed Quantuma of my proposal so they may discuss it with the EFL, Boro, Wycombe and potential bidders."
The EFL said it would review Morris' proposal before considering its position and responding.
"In the meantime, as per Thursday's statement, the offer to engage with Mr Morris and all other stakeholders remains in place as we seek to find the compromises required to protect Derby County in the long-term," the EFL added.
His business is bankrupt. He should not have any money left to settle.
Mel just after he made the offer.
Gotta laugh though. “Take me to the High Court”. Translated as please can you kick this down the road two years and if it get’s dodgy I can just back out and there is no one else to take action against as I was the wrong person to take action against. You just can’t do this. You can only take action against the person/company who is responsible. If he is serious just agree a deal and pay it. He could also spin the wheel and give them a percentage of the ground!
Morris believes his proposal would "unlock the impasse" over Derby's sale.
He said: "I invite Boro, and in due course Wycombe if they so wish, to take their claims to the High Court against me personally.
"Let Derby County move on for the benefit of the fans, the city of Derby, the sport and the EFL."
Morris, who still owns Pride Park, put the club into administration in September and they have since been deducted 21 points, leaving them seven points from safety in the Championship.
It has been suggested a total payment of about £7m would settle the issues involving Middlesbrough and Wycombe which are partly holding up the sale of the club.
Boro missed out on the play-offs to Derby by a point in 2019 while the Chairboys would have stayed up last season had the cases against the Rams been dealt with sooner.
"I sincerely hope the EFL, Boro and Wycombe will respond urgently and constructively to my proposal to unlock the impasse," Morris added.
"By preserving the rights of these parties to pursue their claims through the High Court, I can see no reason why the EFL cannot allow Derby County to exit administration without issue or concern that it would be contrary to their rules, articles and insolvency policy.
"I have informed Quantuma of my proposal so they may discuss it with the EFL, Boro, Wycombe and potential bidders."
The EFL said it would review Morris' proposal before considering its position and responding.
"In the meantime, as per Thursday's statement, the offer to engage with Mr Morris and all other stakeholders remains in place as we seek to find the compromises required to protect Derby County in the long-term," the EFL added.
His business is bankrupt. He should not have any money left to settle.
Mel just after he made the offer.
Gotta laugh though. “Take me to the High Court”. Translated as please can you kick this down the road two years and if it get’s dodgy I can just back out and there is no one else to take action against as I was the wrong person to take action against. You just can’t do this. You can only take action against the person/company who is responsible. If he is serious just agree a deal and pay it. He could also spin the wheel and give them a percentage of the ground!
-Breaches financial fair play rules to gain an unfair advantage
-Completely saddles the club with unsustainable debt over a number of years
- Fails to achieve promotion despite above mentioned overspending, also sacks about 4 managers.
- Separates the club from the stadium and now appears to be holding the club to ransom to get it back
- Decides that despite being the person solely responsible for lumbering the club with debt he should now walk away and let someone pick up the tab leaving the club basically penniless, flogging any assets it has and facing actual liquidation. Also leaves local businesses completely out of pocket.
-Whilst the club is left selling any assets it has due to his poor management, it doesn't own its biggest asset: The stadium. Because he has separated it from the club and can now hold the club or any new owners to ransom over it.
And then he has the absolute front to pretend he's some sort of hero coming into save the day from the big nasty old Boro and Wycombe.
Forget the EFL. Forget Boro. Forget Wycombe. Forget the competence of the Administrators. The demise of Derby lies solely at his door.
He should be made to cover every single debt he racked up at that football club, whether that's to players, other clubs, staff or the many local businesses he has probably put at risk of financial ruin because of his greed.
I would imagine he would have to indemnify the club from any losses incurred during a court case.
I can’t see how taking him personally to court would work , as it was the club that broke the rules.
Exactly. I’m sure his first argument would be he can’t personally be held responsible as it was multiple decisions by different people in the organization. He’s just like the administrators - trying to deflect the attention elsewhere.
He should just gift the ground to the club which would make the club easier to sell and the money the buyer saves can go to pay whatever sums they negotiate with the two other clubs and the other creditors.
Part of me really hopes Mike Ashley takes them over.
I don't really like how their fans seem to be portraying the EFL/Wycombe/Boro as the main protagonist's in this when the fault is quite clearly all at the door of their ex owner. And the fact they complain about the EFL is really ironic when it was the EFL who failed to relegate them last season when it was clear to everyone that's what should have happened.
But then I don't really want any fan to be without a club either and a situation like Bury should never be allowed to happen again.
So them floating round the championship/league one for a few years, playing at the Sports Direct Arena feels a good resolution for me.
It’s interesting but would anyone take on £51m risk for £2.5m. Either the insurer is convinced the case is bogus, or they expect them to go into liquidation before a case can happen.
I do wonder whether the case should be against the EFL as they failed to sanction Derby last season.
It’s interesting but would anyone take on £51m risk for £2.5m. Either the insurer is convinced the case is bogus, or they expect them to go into liquidation before a case can happen.
I do wonder whether the case should be against the EFL as they failed to sanction Derby last season.
Only way they're being relegated is more points deductions (is that possible) or if they get thrown out like Bury.
I'm puzzled they didn't sell more players in January. They sold a few kids, but still have the likes of Tom Lawrence
This. Struggling to prove they have the money to survive the season yet no fire sale in January. All very weird. Can't help thinking that surviving as a club is very much tied to them surviving in the Championship. Maybe buyers harden when/if they reach safety.
As much as i want to see them relegated and they shouldn't even still be in the championship, Rooney has done an incredible job there. Has to be a contender for Championship manager of the year. They'd be 6 points off the play offs without the deduction.
Part of me really hopes Mike Ashley takes them over.
I don't really like how their fans seem to be portraying the EFL/Wycombe/Boro as the main protagonist's in this when the fault is quite clearly all at the door of their ex owner. And the fact they complain about the EFL is really ironic when it was the EFL who failed to relegate them last season when it was clear to everyone that's what should have happened.
But then I don't really want any fan to be without a club either and a situation like Bury should never be allowed to happen again.
So them floating round the championship/league one for a few years, playing at the Sports Direct Arena feels a good resolution for me.
I think it would be better if Ashley didn't take them over because I'm sure he would fund them to the Premiership, he knows what it takes to do that even if they do have a stadium called JDS Arena. I don't think Derby fans would mind that trade off.
Comments
The EFL says Derby County must not use insolvency laws to settle some of their outstanding debts - if they wish to come out of administration.
The Championship club are the subject of unresolved compensation claims from fellow clubs Middlesbrough and Wycombe.
Derby say both should not be treated as "football-related debts".
In a statement, the EFL says it does not agree and feels the club's administrators Quantuma must now consider how they wish to proceed.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60253222
Ah don't worry ignore me it's for the compensation claims for going down/missing out on playoffs.
Still, absolutely football related!
Good statement from the EFL.
Does anyone know how much Middlesbrough and Wycombe are asking for roughly? Obviously if that figure isn't known or agreed first then no one is going to buy them. Hardly likely to buy them and then find out a month later you have to give both clubs 7-8m each.
Has he checked his bank account recently?
What I am less sure about is how the administrators got appointed. I assume they were "competitive".
While Quantuma has only existed since the middle of 2020, the individuals working there are going to be licensed insolvency practitioners but how much experience do they have? Especially in unique matters like dealing with the rules of the EFL. By the firm's own admission a very high percentage of its staff are new to it. How good are they? How come a significant and well-known business like The Derby County Football Club Ltd ended up with a fledgling insolvency firm?
Why didn't Derby County use someone like BegbiesTraynor for example? Because, at the moment, from a bystander's point of view, it is very difficult to see quite what progress Quantuma are making with this administration. Apart from collecting their fees of course.
Former Derby County owner Mel Morris has invited Middlesbrough and Wycombe to take their compensation claims to the High Court against him personally.
Boro and Wycombe claim they lost out on the play-offs and surviving relegation due to Derby's financial rule breaches.
The EFL has told Derby's administrators Quantuma both claims must be treated as "football-related debts" and insolvency laws must not be used to settle them.
Morris believes his proposal would "unlock the impasse" over Derby's sale.
He said: "I invite Boro, and in due course Wycombe if they so wish, to take their claims to the High Court against me personally.
"Let Derby County move on for the benefit of the fans, the city of Derby, the sport and the EFL."
Morris, who still owns Pride Park, put the club into administration in September and they have since been deducted 21 points, leaving them seven points from safety in the Championship.
It has been suggested a total payment of about £7m would settle the issues involving Middlesbrough and Wycombe which are partly holding up the sale of the club.
Boro missed out on the play-offs to Derby by a point in 2019 while the Chairboys would have stayed up last season had the cases against the Rams been dealt with sooner.
"I sincerely hope the EFL, Boro and Wycombe will respond urgently and constructively to my proposal to unlock the impasse," Morris added.
"By preserving the rights of these parties to pursue their claims through the High Court, I can see no reason why the EFL cannot allow Derby County to exit administration without issue or concern that it would be contrary to their rules, articles and insolvency policy.
"I have informed Quantuma of my proposal so they may discuss it with the EFL, Boro, Wycombe and potential bidders."
The EFL said it would review Morris' proposal before considering its position and responding.
"In the meantime, as per Thursday's statement, the offer to engage with Mr Morris and all other stakeholders remains in place as we seek to find the compromises required to protect Derby County in the long-term," the EFL added.
Mel just after he made the offer.
You just can’t do this. You can only take action against the person/company who is responsible.
If he is serious just agree a deal and pay it.
He could also spin the wheel and give them a percentage of the ground!
-Breaches financial fair play rules to gain an unfair advantage
-Completely saddles the club with unsustainable debt over a number of years
- Fails to achieve promotion despite above mentioned overspending, also sacks about 4 managers.
- Separates the club from the stadium and now appears to be holding the club to ransom to get it back
- Decides that despite being the person solely responsible for lumbering the club with debt he should now walk away and let someone pick up the tab leaving the club basically penniless, flogging any assets it has and facing actual liquidation. Also leaves local businesses completely out of pocket.
-Whilst the club is left selling any assets it has due to his poor management, it doesn't own its biggest asset: The stadium. Because he has separated it from the club and can now hold the club or any new owners to ransom over it.
And then he has the absolute front to pretend he's some sort of hero coming into save the day from the big nasty old Boro and Wycombe.
Forget the EFL. Forget Boro. Forget Wycombe. Forget the competence of the Administrators. The demise of Derby lies solely at his door.
He should be made to cover every single debt he racked up at that football club, whether that's to players, other clubs, staff or the many local businesses he has probably put at risk of financial ruin because of his greed.
https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/uk/news/breaking-news/derby-county-turns-to-insurance-for-liquidation-lifeline-324480.aspx
I don't really like how their fans seem to be portraying the EFL/Wycombe/Boro as the main protagonist's in this when the fault is quite clearly all at the door of their ex owner. And the fact they complain about the EFL is really ironic when it was the EFL who failed to relegate them last season when it was clear to everyone that's what should have happened.
But then I don't really want any fan to be without a club either and a situation like Bury should never be allowed to happen again.
So them floating round the championship/league one for a few years, playing at the Sports Direct Arena feels a good resolution for me.
Only way they're being relegated is more points deductions (is that possible) or if they get thrown out like Bury.
So he was going out to injure players including England teammates before a World Cup summer? Thick.