I have not been watching Premier games so, can someone please shed some light on whether the Chelsea full back James always checks 10yds in to the attacking half to pass back in club football?
For Chelsea he’s at the byline whipping in 3 or 4 quality crosses a game.
The difference is staggering.
It has to be a mentality thing. People always blaming Southgate but the drop in performance levels cannot be just down to him. Players need to take a bit of responsibility. I’m expecting a turnaround Tuesday.
Some of it is definitely mentality I agree. Young squad that felt the pressure of the occasion. Hopefully that can change as they mature.
However, James’ performance was just so uncharacteristic. This is a player that loves bombing forward but he seemed reluctant to even venture out of his own half last night. That’s not just confidence, it’s very deliberate instruction. It’s the same with Rice and Shaw. They aren’t playing their natural games.
When you instil a ‘dont lose’ mentality into players it creates the slow, turgid, low confidence football we played last night. I guarantee that playing on the front foot and building some momentum in attack would completely change this team.
I have not been watching Premier games so, can someone please shed some light on whether the Chelsea full back James always checks 10yds in to the attacking half to pass back in club football?
For Chelsea he’s at the byline whipping in 3 or 4 quality crosses a game.
The difference is staggering.
It has to be a mentality thing. People always blaming Southgate but the drop in performance levels cannot be just down to him. Players need to take a bit of responsibility. I’m expecting a turnaround Tuesday.
This I think, think the occasion got to all of them the praising of Scotland is all getting a bit sickly now they drew and are v unlikely to be going through.
Went down the red barn for the match was a good night out with mates.
Am off to the game on Tuesday on my own as only one of our group of 3 with a ticket - at least not a dead rubber.
we are through regardless of the result - so no need to panic just yet
The Scotland love in is doing my head in a bit, it's a big day out for them, not often they get a chance like this, obviously their fans are going to be loud. I also don't understand what game people were watching where the reviews are that they played well? 0-0 when they need 3 points and sat back most of the game?
Anyway
We are crap, we are wasting such a good opportunity with a boring manager. Nice bloke but he would get a team relegated in the prem, so why is he managing us? Sterling looks undroppable which concerns me cause he's pants, Kane looks more worried about not getting an injury for his big move rather than playing for the badge, no leadership on the pitch. Did anyone look bothered to yous? Where was our leaders trying to create some urgency to win? Either we have a very arrogant team who don't care about the fans or we have a team so nervous they are limiting themselves.
Get rid of the double pivot, it's embarrassing. Start Bellingham and Sancho as a right centre mid and right winger, two actual teammates who have had a good season together, Grealish left wing with Foden lcm, why not have Mount in the middle, good energy and can keep the ball. I don't see the need for 2-3 fridge freezers in midfield.
Anyway I don't see us going further than ro16, if we had a manager who was brave and had actual football tactics we could win the whole thing, a manager like Bielsa springs to mind, unfortunately we have a geography supply teacher in charge
Completely agree about the 2 defensive midfielders and Bellingham and Sancho.
Just posted in the other thread:
agree 4 points will be fine which is why we need to rest players and give others a go in the Czech game.
Trippier and Chilwell full backs, get them to push on. Play Stones and Maguire to test Maguire's fitness.
Play one of Rice and Phillips, with Bellingham and Grealish the others in the 3.
Give Sancho a go on the right, rest Kane and play DCL. I'd potentially still start Foden on the left, he's not played 90mins yet so should be fine.
Forget trying to get players in behind Kane, try to play to what should be our strengths given the pace of the PL, quick passing between good players.
Agree with a lot of that, Chilwell has just won a champions League final and should be raring to go, it's funny how we have a squad full of champions League, quarter finals and beyond players + Europa League but you wouldn't know.
Bellingham is a must for me with Sancho now, I know they're young but they've turned up in big games this season, need to be brave and play them both together.
I would personally have Mings over Stones from what I've seen so far, but Maguire has to be playing at some point cause I think he's a proper leader.
Either way I am glad all England fans are on the same wave length, crazy that our manager isn't. Sterling 180 minutes of football and bar his goal has offered nothing, a real case of favouritism there I'd say
Shaw attacked down the left flank and played well other that a messed up shot, come, cross in the box.
Kane is not over rated, and it's why every top club in the world would want him. But he has had two poor games and doesn't play his best football in the Summer tournaments. Remember him off the pace when he played for the U21, 6 years ago.
Is his ankle giving him problems because he took a heavy kick early doors yesterday, and was sluggish until he went off ?
It’s out the way, it’s done. They need to really sit down and analyse the performance and Southgate needs to realise that Grealish has to start. He’s direct, he makes stuff happen.
Can’t stand the overreaction tho. Philips is now shit after being a revelation. Kane, albeit poor in both games, is now overrated. Fucking hell, there’s a weird stigma around England where fans have zero patience and expect everything all the time. They wouldn’t for their club sides.
This. So many ridiculous OTT comments. We've 4 points from 2 games & haven't conceded a goal, even though the majority don't rate our defenders or keeper highly. I can't agree with the comments of jealousy and wish Scotland was their team. This is the Scotland that have to win their last game to qualify and we are already qualified barring some disaster. Will Scotland be having an open top bus celebration round Glasgow this evening? The aim of the group games is to get through to the next round and we've almost certainly achieved it after 2 games.
I have not been watching Premier games so, can someone please shed some light on whether the Chelsea full back James always checks 10yds in to the attacking half to pass back in club football?
For Chelsea he’s at the byline whipping in 3 or 4 quality crosses a game.
The difference is staggering.
If that is the case we can only assume he was playing to Southgate orders. There is no point having young talented players if the manager is too cautious and not going to let them express that talent. Lets hope Southgate gets more adventurous once we're out of the group stage.
modern day football is being killed by negative tactics - most premier league games i watch now are 80 minutes off passing it round the back followed by a bit at the end when a match actually happens - last night wasn't a football match - it was a defensive dirge - didn't even get 10 minutes where either side were going all out to win - absolute tripe
Absolutely agree with this, but would also add the acceptance that any form of "contact" immediately equates to a foul as players throw themselves to the floor.
There is an obsession with keeping possession for possessions sake, aimlessly passing it around the back going nowhere and not trying to go anywhere. It's boring.
I do wonder if a team playing Wimbledon style tactics could smash their way through games these days, but then they'd probably get four men sent off just for making perfectly acceptable tackles because they showed " too much force"!
Oh, and while I'm on, what's all this guff I'm reading about Scotland having the better chances?
The best chance of the game was the free header from 8 yards out that Stones somehow managed to hit the inside of the post with. Can anyone name a better or more clear cut chance than that?
The second best chance in terms of being clear cut was Mounts miss. Yes, it came to him quickly on the run, but hes 6 yards out and if it's on target it goes in as the keeper has no time to react.
And as for all this pony about Scotland being "brave" and "courageous" - why? Sure, they played well by their standards, but it's a game of football played by well paid professionals. It's not as if they volunteered to go out into no mans land to help the wounded in the Somme is it , ffs!
A performance that was typical of Southgate's tenure. Boring and predictable.
He is in charge of a stunning array of attacking talent that has been delivering week in, week out for their respective clubs. Southgate has managed to instil a negative mindset in them which goes against their natural instincts; no wonder they all look so pissed off. Just how many times last night did we pass backwards instead of looking for the forward pass that might have actually led to a chance on goal? How many forward moves ended up with our goalie? It was pathetic - we weren't playing Brazil FFS.
Southgate may be a nice chap, but he is a shit manager. I would wager that most here would do a better job than him. If he was managing in the real world, he would be sacked pretty damn quickly given his reverse-Midas touch. His shit, negative mindset is looking to predictably ruin another tournament for us. It is not that we would be guaranteed to do better, but that we could actually have a go at trying to play attacking, exciting football. With the talent at our disposal, not to do so is criminal (Sancho, arguably the most exciting player in Europe at the moment, doesn't even get a chance, for instance) and when we limp out of the tournament playing two defensive midfielders and with team instructions to pass back, whilst wondering why our attacking players are getting no service, maybe folk will start getting flashbacks to the Croatia game a the World Cup and reality will start to dawn.
Southgate was a typical 'safe pair of hands' appointment who has been found out in the real world of League football. Until we get in a competent, courageous manager who knows how to get the best out of players and let them do what they do best, we are doomed to mediocrity. I'd rather we get knocked out at least having a go at winning rather than this over-defensive, unimaginative shit that we are being served up. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.
It’s out the way, it’s done. They need to really sit down and analyse the performance and Southgate needs to realise that Grealish has to start. He’s direct, he makes stuff happen.
Can’t stand the overreaction tho. Philips is now shit after being a revelation. Kane, albeit poor in both games, is now overrated. Fucking hell, there’s a weird stigma around England where fans have zero patience and expect everything all the time. They wouldn’t for their club sides.
This. So many ridiculous OTT comments. We've 4 points from 2 games & haven't conceded a goal, even though the majority don't rate our defenders or keeper highly. I can't agree with the comments of jealousy and wish Scotland was their team. This is the Scotland that have to win their last game to qualify and we are already qualified barring some disaster. Will Scotland be having an open top bus celebration round Glasgow this evening? The aim of the group games is to get through to the next round and we've almost certainly achieved it after 2 games.
I think you are missing the point mate. Nobody is saying the current points total is bad, they are saying the performances are turgid. The worse thing that could happen has happened imo, England have qualified for the next round playing this brand of shite. We will lose to the first decent team we face but the FA will say oh well unlucky chaps we move on and nothing changes before the WC. People are frustrated because they are watching players who week in week play a totally different brand of football are being coached to be negative. I personally would much rather have lost the 2 games so far if the performances had been better. Boring boring boring. I honestly think pretty much any league manager could get more out of this team than is being achieved at the moment. Southgate got lucky at the last WC in that the draw was kind to us as soon as we faced someone half decent we were out
I wish we had an English manager who had managed a club that had finished consistently in the top 4 in the premier league, I know we did well in the World Cup in 2018, but we had a easy draw, Southgate is not in the same bracket as Sir Bobby Robson was.
Thing is, the defensive formula is tried and tested in the Euros. Portugal won the last one with being hard to break down. Same with Greece. I’d love us to play open attacking football but we knew what we were getting with Southgate.
It’s out the way, it’s done. They need to really sit down and analyse the performance and Southgate needs to realise that Grealish has to start. He’s direct, he makes stuff happen.
Can’t stand the overreaction tho. Philips is now shit after being a revelation. Kane, albeit poor in both games, is now overrated. Fucking hell, there’s a weird stigma around England where fans have zero patience and expect everything all the time. They wouldn’t for their club sides.
This. So many ridiculous OTT comments. We've 4 points from 2 games & haven't conceded a goal, even though the majority don't rate our defenders or keeper highly. I can't agree with the comments of jealousy and wish Scotland was their team. This is the Scotland that have to win their last game to qualify and we are already qualified barring some disaster. Will Scotland be having an open top bus celebration round Glasgow this evening? The aim of the group games is to get through to the next round and we've almost certainly achieved it after 2 games.
I think you are missing the point mate. Nobody is saying the current points total is bad, they are saying the performances are turgid. The worse thing that could happen has happened imo, England have qualified for the next round playing this brand of shite. We will lose to the first decent team we face but the FA will say oh well unlucky chaps we move on and nothing changes before the WC. People are frustrated because they are watching players who week in week play a totally different brand of football are being coached to be negative. I personally would much rather have lost the 2 games so far if the performances had been better. Boring boring boring. I honestly think pretty much any league manager could get more out of this team than is being achieved at the moment. Southgate got lucky at the last WC in that the draw was kind to us as soon as we faced someone half decent we were out
You would rather we had better performances but lost the first 2 games and were already out of the competition?
Do you feel the same about Charlton as you do about England? Are you hoping we play wide open football again this season and let in 2,3,4 goals most games at home and lose more than we win?
Personally, I'm hoping we're set up to win/draw games and get promoted. Everyone would prefer wonderful attacking football and winning every game, but in the real world that doesn't happen.
No offence AndyG, but I reckon everyone that says they would rather play attacking football and lose would not be saying that when it actually happens.
Personally given the choice, I'm delighted that we're still in the competition rather than having looked great but been eliminated by Croatia and Scotland.
Thing is, the defensive formula is tried and tested in the Euros. Portugal won the last one with being hard to break down. Same with Greece. I’d love us to play open attacking football but we knew what we were getting with Southgate.
I’d agree but last night we looked uncomfortable against Dykes and Adams. Even their RB was getting beyond Shaw.
Its kind of scary thinking how that’ll translate when we face quality attackers.
I like the fact we’ve conceded none, but I don’t see us as solid as someone like Italy etc. even with such a defensive approach.
Thing is, the defensive formula is tried and tested in the Euros. Portugal won the last one with being hard to break down. Same with Greece. I’d love us to play open attacking football but we knew what we were getting with Southgate.
I’d agree but last night we looked uncomfortable against Dykes and Adams. Even their RB was getting beyond Shaw.
Its kind of scary thinking how that’ll translate when we face quality attackers.
I like the fact we’ve conceded none, but I don’t see us as solid as someone like Italy etc. even with such a defensive approach.
Re: Kane specifically. Based on my observations and given I've watched him more times than anyone on here (no disrespect intended - I've maybe missed 2-3 Spurs games max in the last decade!), he has always had this sluggishness when he comes badk from a break. Always, whether it be an injury or not, he comes back slowly and it can take him 3-4 games to get back on it again.
He gets played through his dodgy spells at Spurs because there's never been a backup. Not always to our benefit, he had a stinker in the CL final and Moura after his hattrick in the semi at Ajax should have played. In a tournament, England cant afford that luxury, simple as that.
But when he clicks, there's not a centre-forward like him in Europe who can score AND provide. Not even Lewandoski can do that.
However, lets not get carried away. He has been poor last two games but has he had any service? No he hasnt. So much so he comes deep and he hasnt had the runners beyond.
For me, Southgate has had 3 years since the world cup to work on a system and it clearly isnt working. Full backs not crossing halfway and looking only to pass back inside to the CBs or looking long in behind the opposition fullbacks to no runners is a massive problem.
Southgates insistence on playing 2 holding midfielders is flawed. As well as Phillips played against Croatia, he was poor last night and Southgate would have been better off playing Mount or Bellingham alongside Rice and playing Grealish in a free role. If you dont allow the FBs to push on, you have to have width and there has been none. How many crosses from free play have there been in the last two games. Why on earth did Foden get pulled when he was the only bright spark?
Dont get me wrong, Kane has had two utter stinkers but to call him 'overrated?! thats just laughable. It would take a brave man to pick him again...but it'll take a brave man to drop him.
Kane for me is an old fashioned forward. Not overrated because in the English game he’s effective but considering his goal scoring record I don’t see clubs with real quality and success touching him with a barge pole. Not a good enough first touch and certainly not mobile enough for the modern game at the top end clubs.
We are yet to concede a goal across two games and Southgate will consider that a success. I’ll argue that both Scotland and Croatia have looked toothless and we’re yet to be properly tested to that end.
It’s obvious the way Southgate wants to set his teams up and it won’t change. Remain solid, keep the shape and don’t play too much flair players together. That means if Grealish comes in, Foden is out.
It’s out the way, it’s done. They need to really sit down and analyse the performance and Southgate needs to realise that Grealish has to start. He’s direct, he makes stuff happen.
Can’t stand the overreaction tho. Philips is now shit after being a revelation. Kane, albeit poor in both games, is now overrated. Fucking hell, there’s a weird stigma around England where fans have zero patience and expect everything all the time. They wouldn’t for their club sides.
This. So many ridiculous OTT comments. We've 4 points from 2 games & haven't conceded a goal, even though the majority don't rate our defenders or keeper highly. I can't agree with the comments of jealousy and wish Scotland was their team. This is the Scotland that have to win their last game to qualify and we are already qualified barring some disaster. Will Scotland be having an open top bus celebration round Glasgow this evening? The aim of the group games is to get through to the next round and we've almost certainly achieved it after 2 games.
I think you are missing the point mate. Nobody is saying the current points total is bad, they are saying the performances are turgid. The worse thing that could happen has happened imo, England have qualified for the next round playing this brand of shite. We will lose to the first decent team we face but the FA will say oh well unlucky chaps we move on and nothing changes before the WC. People are frustrated because they are watching players who week in week play a totally different brand of football are being coached to be negative. I personally would much rather have lost the 2 games so far if the performances had been better. Boring boring boring. I honestly think pretty much any league manager could get more out of this team than is being achieved at the moment. Southgate got lucky at the last WC in that the draw was kind to us as soon as we faced someone half decent we were out
You would rather we had better performances but lost the first 2 games and were already out of the competition?
Do you feel the same about Charlton as you do about England? Are you hoping we play wide open football again this season and let in 2,3,4 goals most games at home and lose more than we win?
Personally, I'm hoping we're set up to win/draw games and get promoted. Everyone would prefer wonderful attacking football and winning every game, but in the real world that doesn't happen.
No offence AndyG, but I reckon everyone that says they would rather play attacking football and lose would not be saying that when it actually happens.
Personally given the choice, I'm delighted that we're still in the competition rather than having looked great but been eliminated by Croatia and Scotland.
Than watch that style of football then yes I would. Let me put it this way, if Southgate had the mentality last night to say to his team just keep getting forward and attack, you think Scotland would be able to live with that for 90 mins ? They were totally comfortable with sitting back watching the ball go sideways and backwards in front of them, ok they might have scored on a breakaway but so what if we are scoring 2 or 3 more than them. It's just boring mate I said the same last season when Charlton were doing the same thing it's just shite even if you win 1-0
It’s out the way, it’s done. They need to really sit down and analyse the performance and Southgate needs to realise that Grealish has to start. He’s direct, he makes stuff happen.
Can’t stand the overreaction tho. Philips is now shit after being a revelation. Kane, albeit poor in both games, is now overrated. Fucking hell, there’s a weird stigma around England where fans have zero patience and expect everything all the time. They wouldn’t for their club sides.
This. So many ridiculous OTT comments. We've 4 points from 2 games & haven't conceded a goal, even though the majority don't rate our defenders or keeper highly. I can't agree with the comments of jealousy and wish Scotland was their team. This is the Scotland that have to win their last game to qualify and we are already qualified barring some disaster. Will Scotland be having an open top bus celebration round Glasgow this evening? The aim of the group games is to get through to the next round and we've almost certainly achieved it after 2 games.
I think you are missing the point mate. Nobody is saying the current points total is bad, they are saying the performances are turgid. The worse thing that could happen has happened imo, England have qualified for the next round playing this brand of shite. We will lose to the first decent team we face but the FA will say oh well unlucky chaps we move on and nothing changes before the WC. People are frustrated because they are watching players who week in week play a totally different brand of football are being coached to be negative. I personally would much rather have lost the 2 games so far if the performances had been better. Boring boring boring. I honestly think pretty much any league manager could get more out of this team than is being achieved at the moment. Southgate got lucky at the last WC in that the draw was kind to us as soon as we faced someone half decent we were out
You would rather we had better performances but lost the first 2 games and were already out of the competition?
Do you feel the same about Charlton as you do about England? Are you hoping we play wide open football again this season and let in 2,3,4 goals most games at home and lose more than we win?
Personally, I'm hoping we're set up to win/draw games and get promoted. Everyone would prefer wonderful attacking football and winning every game, but in the real world that doesn't happen.
No offence AndyG, but I reckon everyone that says they would rather play attacking football and lose would not be saying that when it actually happens.
Personally given the choice, I'm delighted that we're still in the competition rather than having looked great but been eliminated by Croatia and Scotland.
Than watch that style of football then yes I would. Let me put it this way, if Southgate had the mentality last night to say to his team just keep getting forward and attack, you think Scotland would be able to live with that for 90 mins ? They were totally comfortable with sitting back watching the ball go sideways and backwards in front of them, ok they might have scored on a breakaway but so what if we are scoring 2 or 3 more than them. It's just boring mate I said the same last season when Charlton were doing the same thing it's just shite even if you win 1-0
I agree that if we'd just kept getting forward and attacked, there was more chance of winning OR losing the game. We may have been unlucky, gone a goal down and lost 0-1.
You'd rather we did that, lost and gone out. I'd rather we got the point and have now almost certainly successfully made it to the last 16.
We'd both rather we played exciting attacking football and won every game, but that's for the fantasists. We both agree that keep possession football is boring, if there's no cutting edge.
Chelsea won the Champions League playing boring and Greece (yes Greece) won the Euros playing boring. What also happens with every WC/Euros, is there is an avalanche of comments when we're knocked out earlyish, with people saying that's it I'm not interested anymore now England are out.
NB I'm not suggesting that Southgate/England will have greater success than for the last 50 years. But I'm not against trying a different approach, in the hope that we can emulate Euro and Champions League winners like Greece, Portugal and Chelsea, when they were clearly not the best teams.
If the latter stages of this competition is going to be contested by the best teams then we will do well to make the quarters, unless our tactics are better than France, Italy, Portugal, Belgium, Spain, Germany etc. I'd love to win The Euros, even if there are 5,6,7 or 8 better teams.
Thing is, the defensive formula is tried and tested in the Euros. Portugal won the last one with being hard to break down. Same with Greece. I’d love us to play open attacking football but we knew what we were getting with Southgate.
I’d agree but last night we looked uncomfortable against Dykes and Adams. Even their RB was getting beyond Shaw.
Its kind of scary thinking how that’ll translate when we face quality attackers.
I like the fact we’ve conceded none, but I don’t see us as solid as someone like Italy etc. even with such a defensive approach.
Croatia also had 3 shots from inside our box last week. The defence hadn't been great, we're just playing against shite finishers atm. Once we're in the the latter stages we'll get punished.
Comments
didn’t manage to sleep until 1, couldn’t sleep after the game and my boy was up at 7, today has not been in anyway enjoyable.
However, James’ performance was just so uncharacteristic. This is a player that loves bombing forward but he seemed reluctant to even venture out of his own half last night. That’s not just confidence, it’s very deliberate instruction. It’s the same with Rice and Shaw. They aren’t playing their natural games.
When you instil a ‘dont lose’ mentality into players it creates the slow, turgid, low confidence football we played last night. I guarantee that playing on the front foot and building some momentum in attack would completely change this team.
we are through regardless of the result - so no need to panic just yet
Bellingham is a must for me with Sancho now, I know they're young but they've turned up in big games this season, need to be brave and play them both together.
I would personally have Mings over Stones from what I've seen so far, but Maguire has to be playing at some point cause I think he's a proper leader.
Either way I am glad all England fans are on the same wave length, crazy that our manager isn't. Sterling 180 minutes of football and bar his goal has offered nothing, a real case of favouritism there I'd say
@bobmunro is the equivalent of Afka there
Also a lot of people suspected he was carrying an injury against Colombia and Croatia in the world cup, because he was out on his feet. And he wasn't.
So many ridiculous OTT comments.
We've 4 points from 2 games & haven't conceded a goal, even though the majority don't rate our defenders or keeper highly.
I can't agree with the comments of jealousy and wish Scotland was their team.
This is the Scotland that have to win their last game to qualify and we are already qualified barring some disaster.
Will Scotland be having an open top bus celebration round Glasgow this evening?
The aim of the group games is to get through to the next round and we've almost certainly achieved it after 2 games.
There is an obsession with keeping possession for possessions sake, aimlessly passing it around the back going nowhere and not trying to go anywhere. It's boring.
I do wonder if a team playing Wimbledon style tactics could smash their way through games these days, but then they'd probably get four men sent off just for making perfectly acceptable tackles because they showed " too much force"!
The best chance of the game was the free header from 8 yards out that Stones somehow managed to hit the inside of the post with. Can anyone name a better or more clear cut chance than that?
The second best chance in terms of being clear cut was Mounts miss. Yes, it came to him quickly on the run, but hes 6 yards out and if it's on target it goes in as the keeper has no time to react.
And as for all this pony about Scotland being "brave" and "courageous" - why? Sure, they played well by their standards, but it's a game of football played by well paid professionals. It's not as if they volunteered to go out into no mans land to help the wounded in the Somme is it , ffs!
That map says it all. Backward football.
James usually crosses low and hard. With Mount, Foden and Kane getting the box we’re missing those drives to the byline.
He is in charge of a stunning array of attacking talent that has been delivering week in, week out for their respective clubs. Southgate has managed to instil a negative mindset in them which goes against their natural instincts; no wonder they all look so pissed off. Just how many times last night did we pass backwards instead of looking for the forward pass that might have actually led to a chance on goal? How many forward moves ended up with our goalie? It was pathetic - we weren't playing Brazil FFS.
Southgate may be a nice chap, but he is a shit manager. I would wager that most here would do a better job than him. If he was managing in the real world, he would be sacked pretty damn quickly given his reverse-Midas touch. His shit, negative mindset is looking to predictably ruin another tournament for us. It is not that we would be guaranteed to do better, but that we could actually have a go at trying to play attacking, exciting football. With the talent at our disposal, not to do so is criminal (Sancho, arguably the most exciting player in Europe at the moment, doesn't even get a chance, for instance) and when we limp out of the tournament playing two defensive midfielders and with team instructions to pass back, whilst wondering why our attacking players are getting no service, maybe folk will start getting flashbacks to the Croatia game a the World Cup and reality will start to dawn.
Southgate was a typical 'safe pair of hands' appointment who has been found out in the real world of League football. Until we get in a competent, courageous manager who knows how to get the best out of players and let them do what they do best, we are doomed to mediocrity. I'd rather we get knocked out at least having a go at winning rather than this over-defensive, unimaginative shit that we are being served up. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.
Boring boring boring. I honestly think pretty much any league manager could get more out of this team than is being achieved at the moment. Southgate got lucky at the last WC in that the draw was kind to us as soon as we faced someone half decent we were out
Do you feel the same about Charlton as you do about England?
Are you hoping we play wide open football again this season and let in 2,3,4 goals most games at home and lose more than we win?
Personally, I'm hoping we're set up to win/draw games and get promoted.
Everyone would prefer wonderful attacking football and winning every game, but in the real world that doesn't happen.
No offence AndyG, but I reckon everyone that says they would rather play attacking football and lose would not be saying that when it actually happens.
Personally given the choice, I'm delighted that we're still in the competition rather than having looked great but been eliminated by Croatia and Scotland.
Its kind of scary thinking how that’ll translate when we face quality attackers.
I like the fact we’ve conceded none, but I don’t see us as solid as someone like Italy etc. even with such a defensive approach.
He gets played through his dodgy spells at Spurs because there's never been a backup. Not always to our benefit, he had a stinker in the CL final and Moura after his hattrick in the semi at Ajax should have played. In a tournament, England cant afford that luxury, simple as that.
But when he clicks, there's not a centre-forward like him in Europe who can score AND provide. Not even Lewandoski can do that.
However, lets not get carried away. He has been poor last two games but has he had any service? No he hasnt. So much so he comes deep and he hasnt had the runners beyond.
For me, Southgate has had 3 years since the world cup to work on a system and it clearly isnt working. Full backs not crossing halfway and looking only to pass back inside to the CBs or looking long in behind the opposition fullbacks to no runners is a massive problem.
Southgates insistence on playing 2 holding midfielders is flawed. As well as Phillips played against Croatia, he was poor last night and Southgate would have been better off playing Mount or Bellingham alongside Rice and playing Grealish in a free role. If you dont allow the FBs to push on, you have to have width and there has been none. How many crosses from free play have there been in the last two games. Why on earth did Foden get pulled when he was the only bright spark?
Dont get me wrong, Kane has had two utter stinkers but to call him 'overrated?! thats just laughable. It would take a brave man to pick him again...but it'll take a brave man to drop him.
It’s obvious the way Southgate wants to set his teams up and it won’t change. Remain solid, keep the shape and don’t play too much flair players together. That means if Grealish comes in, Foden is out.
Kane looks jaded and urgently needs a rest.
We may have been unlucky, gone a goal down and lost 0-1.
You'd rather we did that, lost and gone out.
I'd rather we got the point and have now almost certainly successfully made it to the last 16.
We'd both rather we played exciting attacking football and won every game, but that's for the fantasists.
We both agree that keep possession football is boring, if there's no cutting edge.
Chelsea won the Champions League playing boring and Greece (yes Greece) won the Euros playing boring.
What also happens with every WC/Euros, is there is an avalanche of comments when we're knocked out earlyish, with people saying that's it I'm not interested anymore now England are out.
NB I'm not suggesting that Southgate/England will have greater success than for the last 50 years.
But I'm not against trying a different approach, in the hope that we can emulate Euro and Champions League winners like Greece, Portugal and Chelsea, when they were clearly not the best teams.
If the latter stages of this competition is going to be contested by the best teams then we will do well to make the quarters, unless our tactics are better than France, Italy, Portugal, Belgium, Spain, Germany etc.
I'd love to win The Euros, even if there are 5,6,7 or 8 better teams.