If this pre contract neescis true . Then would Dobson risk his move to this club by getting injured playing for us. Or will he want to sit out the rest of the season.
I would like to think the club would've had a conversation with him first to say we need you till the end of the season & he's agreed. No point postponing the transfer if he's not going to play
Just to try and put a positive slant on this for a minute (sorry). Assuming this was all genuine and a done deal, IF it was Nathan Jones who put the kybosh on it and IF Dobbo has been offered a bit of a bonus to stay at least to the end of the season, it tells us a few things. -
- Jones ain't shy and coming forward in his role. - It emphasises again that the investors are showing a responsibility to dig a bit. - It hopefully shows that Scott has been vetoed, which does two thing; 1. It's bound to feel like a kick in the bollocks for Scott. 2. It displays signs that the investors are willing to listen to Jones directly, showing some or all of the SMT ain't worth a w***.
I would imagine the club have looked at the cost of being relegated. And decided keep him until the end of the season and play him. Doesn’t make sense to bank c300k yet lose way more if relegated. It’s now up to Dobson to perform at the same level as before if and when selected
Yes and it has taken Scott until February 11th 2024, to finally understand what most fans knew all along. Utter incompetent.
I don't believe pre contracts are legally binding. Based on the above, I reckon there's a deal to be done if Scott goes and Jones wants him.
Blake Morgan Lawyers say ..
Document Content: There is no rule that a Pre-Contract Document’s title prevents it from being a legally enforceable contract. Therefore the interpretation of the wording in the body of the Pre-Contract Document will also be a key factor in determining whether it is intended to have legal effect. Consideration would need to be made as to whether all elements of a legally enforceable contract are present, i.e. offer, acceptance, consideration, etc. If all elements are present the Pre-Contract Document may be considered legally binding despite its title suggesting otherwise.
In order to rebut the presumption that a Pre-Contract Document is intended to create a legally binding effect the parties would need to produce clear evidence that the Pre-Contract Document is not intended to create a legal relationship. However, the parties may need or want some elements of a Pre-Contract Document to be binding, such as obligations of confidentiality, allocation of costs for negotiations/document preparation, etc. If this is the case, the Pre-Contract Document needs to be clear on what is and what is not intended to have legal effect. A carefully drafted Pre-Contract Document can achieve this as well as satisfying the need to clarify the position of the parties before a final contract is signed.
Finally, and on a more commercial note, where a carefully drafted Pre-Contract Document does not create legally binding obligations there is still a practical risk that once signed it may be difficult, practically or morally, to re-negotiate any terms if during final contract negotiations an issue arises that may not have been considered at the outset.
SOOOOOO all depends on the smallest of small print it seems
Just to try and put a positive slant on this for a minute (sorry). Assuming this was all genuine and a done deal, IF it was Nathan Jones who put the kybosh on it and IF Dobbo has been offered a bit of a bonus to stay at least to the end of the season, it tells us a few things. -
- Jones ain't shy and coming forward in his role. - It emphasises again that the investors are showing a responsibility to dig a bit. - It hopefully shows that Scott has been vetoed, which does two thing; 1. It's bound to feel like a kick in the bollocks for Scott. 2. It displays signs that the investors are willing to listen to Jones directly, showing some or all of the SMT ain't worth a w***.
In terms of ‘normal’ employment contracts, works as follows in the Uk
1. Job offer made 2. both individual and business sign a contract of employment to commence on a specified date 3. individual resigns and works notice
twice in my career I have followed the 3 steps above and not started at new place of employment on the specfied date as I had a better offer during notice period or found out negative things on new employers and decided to stay where I was.
On both occasions, the new employer did not enforce the contract after I explained the situation, mostly because they would have an unmotivated employee and the legal cost of enforcement is greater than the contract value.
Two points in relation to Dobbos contract
1. The value of the contract is ~200k per year (guessing 4K per week). If Dobbo decided to change his mind, the legal costs to enforce would be 50-100k, worth it?
2. What is Dobbos moral code. Some have said I have been immoral for pulling out of employment contracts. My view is that life if short, do what is best for your family and for your mental health.
I say normal employment contract, as I am not a football contract professional.
Ok so lets give @Vjacheslav a break when we are arguing about legal comtractual definitions, he‘s doing his best with both a foreign language a different legal code. Take it out on me if you like because I‘m now pretty confused and I thought I had enough experience of this shit.
its been a while but I seem to recall that when I last moved jobs in the UK, I signed an employment contract with my new employer several weeks ahead of the start date. It was necessary to give me the confidence to resign the existing job knowing the new one was definite, and gave the new agency confidence that I wouldn‘t be swayed by a counter-offer from existing employer or another agency I might have been talking to. I don‘t recall it was called a Pre-comtract agreement, superseded by the real contract the day I started, but it might have been.
Is that not still how it works in normal employment in the UK? Its different in CZ , the employment contract starts only on the first day of work, so instead people sign Letters of Intent, but they are not legally enforceable.
someone who knows please set me (and most of the rest of us) straight.
It’s just different in football compared to the real-world isn’t it. My understanding was always that a pre-contract in football was a fairly informal agreement - things may have changed (without looking too much into it).
We all love Dobbo (well most of us), his efforts, the tackles he puts in, the yards he covers, the occasional goal he scores...
But here's the thing, we shouldn't need him. We only need him because we're shit. He's there's to cover the numerous errors his team mates make. Neither of the teams that got promoted out of this pony division needed a Dobbo,.because both teams had more quality, made less mistakes and controlled the play better.
I don't want us to keep him next season, I want us to build a team that no longer needs him.
- last 6 months of your contract, you can sign a pre-contract with a club not in the same country as your current club.
Wiki:
A pre-contract agreement may be broken by the player or the club, depending on the completeness of the terms of that pre-contract and thus how close it was to being considered a valid contract under local law.
Blake Morgan:
Are Pre-Contracts binding?
The enforceability of a pre-contract will depend on the specific terms of the agreement. Pre-contracts are generally not binding under English law as they are usually marked ‘Subject to Contract’ and are simply a commitment by the parties to enter into a later contract. The difference between a pre-contract and a contract is that the parties to the pre-contract have not agreed the essential terms and so the pre-contract does not reflect the final agreement. However, if a pre-contract contains all the essential terms that have been agreed, then the pre-contract is effectively a final contract and is likely to be binding.
FIFA’s Dispute Resolution Chamber (‘DRC’) has had to determine on a number of occasions whether a pre-contract has binding effect when a dispute between a club and a player has arisen. The DRC has generally held that a pre-contract is binding if it contains essential terms such as the duration of the contract, remuneration and additional benefits. Another factor taken into account by the DRC is whether the pre-contract has come into effect. If the pre-contract has been terminated prior to when it is due to take effect, then the DRC has been reluctant to find that the pre-contract is binding, whilst if the parties have already begun to perform their obligations under the pre-contract prior to any termination, then this is usually evidence to prove that the parties intended to be bound by the terms of the pre-contract.
In an attempt to release themselves from the obligations under a pre-contract, parties have attempted to allege that the validity of a pre-contract was conditional upon a player successfully completing a medical or obtaining a work permit. However, the DRC has rejected all such arguments on the basis that Article 18(4) of FIFA’s Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players 2012 prevents the validity of a contract between a player and a club being “subject to a successful medical examination and/or the grant of a work permit”.
To even think about letting go our most consistent player over the last three years is almost unthinkable unless you're Andy Scott.
The bloke is a complete bellend and is as bad as Appleton who he employed. Wake the fuck up Charlton and get this parasite out of our club.... give Dobbo the money they save on Scott's wages for fucks sake.
That’s negotiations, not the same as having signed a pre contract agreement. If players can just change their mind and get out of them then what’s the point in signing one in the first place?
Plenty of "Lawyer speak" stuff, but we still don't know if it's legally binding or not, looks a lot of guff with no clear answer without anyone knowing the exact wording of said pre contract... This thread is becoming like an episode of LA Law...🙄
Well, it seems like someone at the club who actually understands football, has realised how important Dobson could be in a relegation fight and has stood their ground. Thank Christ.
Some of the comments not understanding the move to Hungary are quite amusing for me.
Videoton/Fehervar have been competing in Europe and getting results/competing in recent years against the likes of: Chelsea, Ludogrets, Malmo, AEK Athens, Partizan, PAOK, Bordeaux, Reims, Köln. Do you genuinely not understand how bad the likes of those clubs would smash us to fkn pieces on the pitch 😂 Play league 1 footie surrounded by players who look like they've won a competition and don't put in half the effort you do, or, join a team that competes to win their league and is willing to pay you a very fair wage in a nice country. What a decision.
Suspect it's the people with the same view that Rangers wasn't a big move at the time for Aribo. It's a brilliant move for Dobson at this stage of his career.
When it's all said and done, he will be able to say he played European football for one of the best teams in a different country, OR he could say, he scraped by, year after year for a club that's been mismanaged by absolute crooks in League 1.
In an ideal world, he would have stayed, and he would have been one of the main people in charge of a promotion challenging team. Unfortunately, getting a senior role at Charlton is the easiest job application in the world apparently, and his situation has been completely mismanaged.
Good luck to Dobson. I hope he can help keep us in this poxy league for another year, and we can wipe the stains from the club that currently have far too much say, next season. 👍🏻
That’s negotiations, not the same as having signed a pre contract agreement. If players can just change their mind and get out of them then what’s the point in signing one in the first place?
For help. As I check at the hungarian regulation (because the pre contract signed between a hungarian club, at the hungarian federation).
(22) In the case of concluding a preliminary contract, the following must be observed: a. It can only be signed with a footballer whose current contract expires within 6 months b. It must contain all content elements of the final contract c. According to the regulations of the final contract, it was submitted and filed d. In the case of unilateral termination, the guidelines are laid down in paragraphs 4.§ (8 amateur player) and 5.§ (7 professional player) e. Unlawful unilateral termination is a disciplinary offence
5.§ (7) A contract concluded between a professional football player and a sports organization may be supplemented or amended, validly, only by mutual agreement. A contract concluded between a professional football player and a sports organization is terminated upon its expiration or may be terminated by mutual agreement. Unilateral termination of the contract is legal if any contracting party is entitled to do so by the contract or legislation. Termination can only be done in writing - with a reason for the termination - which must be certified and given to the other party. The termination must be sent to the MLSZ that registers the contract or to its competent organizational unit. The acceptance or rejection of the termination must be declared in writing within 8 days of receipt, if the contract allows for termination. The declaration must be sent with return receipt to the terminating party, the MLSZ that registers the contract or the competent county (Budapest) directorate. If the statement is not sent to the terminating party within the deadline, the unilateral termination shall be considered accepted if it was made on the basis of the contract.
Well, it seems like someone at the club who actually understands football, has realised how important Dobson could be in a relegation fight and has stood their ground. Thank Christ.
Some of the comments not understanding the move to Hungary are quite amusing for me.
Videoton/Fehervar have been competing in Europe and getting results/competing in recent years against the likes of: Chelsea, Ludogrets, Malmo, AEK Athens, Partizan, PAOK, Bordeaux, Reims, Köln. Do you genuinely not understand how bad the likes of those clubs would smash us to fkn pieces on the pitch 😂 Play league 1 footie surrounded by players who look like they've won a competition and don't put in half the effort you do, or, join a team that competes to win their league and is willing to pay you a very fair wage in a nice country. What a decision.
Suspect it's the people with the same view that Rangers wasn't a big move at the time for Aribo. It's a brilliant move for Dobson at this stage of his career.
When it's all said and done, he will be able to say he played European football for one of the best teams in a different country, OR he could say, he scraped by, year after year for a club that's been mismanaged by absolute crooks in League 1.
In an ideal world, he would have stayed, and he would have been one of the main people in charge of a promotion challenging team. Unfortunately, getting a senior role at Charlton is the easiest job application in the world apparently, and his situation has been completely mismanaged.
Good luck to Dobson. I hope he can help keep us in this poxy league for another year, and we can wipe the stains from the club that currently have far too much say, next season. 👍🏻
Thank you for this. So many good memories, and trips.
You just know after all this and hailing the welcome u turn that Dobbo will accidentally do this on the last game of the season and that one goal will send us down as he packs off to go an play in Hungary....
Comments
- Jones ain't shy and coming forward in his role.
- It emphasises again that the investors are showing a responsibility to dig a bit.
- It hopefully shows that Scott has been vetoed, which does two thing; 1. It's bound to feel like a kick in the bollocks for Scott. 2. It displays signs that the investors are willing to listen to Jones directly, showing some or all of the SMT ain't worth a w***.
Utter incompetent.
Document Content: There is no rule that a Pre-Contract Document’s title prevents it from being a legally enforceable contract. Therefore the interpretation of the wording in the body of the Pre-Contract Document will also be a key factor in determining whether it is intended to have legal effect. Consideration would need to be made as to whether all elements of a legally enforceable contract are present, i.e. offer, acceptance, consideration, etc. If all elements are present the Pre-Contract Document may be considered legally binding despite its title suggesting otherwise.
In order to rebut the presumption that a Pre-Contract Document is intended to create a legally binding effect the parties would need to produce clear evidence that the Pre-Contract Document is not intended to create a legal relationship. However, the parties may need or want some elements of a Pre-Contract Document to be binding, such as obligations of confidentiality, allocation of costs for negotiations/document preparation, etc. If this is the case, the Pre-Contract Document needs to be clear on what is and what is not intended to have legal effect. A carefully drafted Pre-Contract Document can achieve this as well as satisfying the need to clarify the position of the parties before a final contract is signed.
Finally, and on a more commercial note, where a carefully drafted Pre-Contract Document does not create legally binding obligations there is still a practical risk that once signed it may be difficult, practically or morally, to re-negotiate any terms if during final contract negotiations an issue arises that may not have been considered at the outset.
SOOOOOO all depends on the smallest of small print it seems
1. Job offer made
2. both individual and business sign a contract of employment to commence on a specified date
3. individual resigns and works notice
twice in my career I have followed the 3 steps above and not started at new place of employment on the specfied date as I had a better offer during notice period or found out negative things on new employers and decided to stay where I was.
But here's the thing, we shouldn't need him. We only need him because we're shit. He's there's to cover the numerous errors his team mates make. Neither of the teams that got promoted out of this pony division needed a Dobbo,.because both teams had more quality, made less mistakes and controlled the play better.
I don't want us to keep him next season, I want us to build a team that no longer needs him.
Anyone who has played FM knows this already but:
- last 6 months of your contract, you can sign a pre-contract with a club not in the same country as your current club.
A pre-contract agreement may be broken by the player or the club, depending on the completeness of the terms of that pre-contract and thus how close it was to being considered a valid contract under local law.
Blake Morgan:
Are Pre-Contracts binding?
The enforceability of a pre-contract will depend on the specific terms of the agreement. Pre-contracts are generally not binding under English law as they are usually marked ‘Subject to Contract’ and are simply a commitment by the parties to enter into a later contract. The difference between a pre-contract and a contract is that the parties to the pre-contract have not agreed the essential terms and so the pre-contract does not reflect the final agreement. However, if a pre-contract contains all the essential terms that have been agreed, then the pre-contract is effectively a final contract and is likely to be binding.
FIFA’s Dispute Resolution Chamber (‘DRC’) has had to determine on a number of occasions whether a pre-contract has binding effect when a dispute between a club and a player has arisen. The DRC has generally held that a pre-contract is binding if it contains essential terms such as the duration of the contract, remuneration and additional benefits. Another factor taken into account by the DRC is whether the pre-contract has come into effect. If the pre-contract has been terminated prior to when it is due to take effect, then the DRC has been reluctant to find that the pre-contract is binding, whilst if the parties have already begun to perform their obligations under the pre-contract prior to any termination, then this is usually evidence to prove that the parties intended to be bound by the terms of the pre-contract.
In an attempt to release themselves from the obligations under a pre-contract, parties have attempted to allege that the validity of a pre-contract was conditional upon a player successfully completing a medical or obtaining a work permit. However, the DRC has rejected all such arguments on the basis that Article 18(4) of FIFA’s Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players 2012 prevents the validity of a contract between a player and a club being “subject to a successful medical examination and/or the grant of a work permit”.
https://www.blakemorgan.co.uk/the-enforceability-of-pre-contracts-in-football/
The bloke is a complete bellend and is as bad as Appleton who he employed. Wake the fuck up Charlton and get this parasite out of our club.... give Dobbo the money they save on Scott's wages for fucks sake.
This thread is becoming like an episode of LA Law...🙄
Some of the comments not understanding the move to Hungary are quite amusing for me.
Videoton/Fehervar have been competing in Europe and getting results/competing in recent years against the likes of: Chelsea, Ludogrets, Malmo, AEK Athens, Partizan, PAOK, Bordeaux, Reims, Köln. Do you genuinely not understand how bad the likes of those clubs would smash us to fkn pieces on the pitch 😂 Play league 1 footie surrounded by players who look like they've won a competition and don't put in half the effort you do, or, join a team that competes to win their league and is willing to pay you a very fair wage in a nice country. What a decision.
Suspect it's the people with the same view that Rangers wasn't a big move at the time for Aribo. It's a brilliant move for Dobson at this stage of his career.
When it's all said and done, he will be able to say he played European football for one of the best teams in a different country, OR he could say, he scraped by, year after year for a club that's been mismanaged by absolute crooks in League 1.
In an ideal world, he would have stayed, and he would have been one of the main people in charge of a promotion challenging team. Unfortunately, getting a senior role at Charlton is the easiest job application in the world apparently, and his situation has been completely mismanaged.
Good luck to Dobson. I hope he can help keep us in this poxy league for another year, and we can wipe the stains from the club that currently have far too much say, next season. 👍🏻
(22) In the case of concluding a preliminary contract, the following must be observed: a. It can only be signed with a footballer whose current contract expires within 6 months b. It must contain all content elements of the final contract c. According to the regulations of the final contract, it was submitted and filed d. In the case of unilateral termination, the guidelines are laid down in paragraphs 4.§ (8 amateur player) and 5.§ (7 professional player) e. Unlawful unilateral termination is a disciplinary offence