I think Italy were the best side on the day, by a decent margin, but that was largely because we decided to hang on to our goal. At the end of the day, Football is about winning and Southgate would have been hailed a tactical genius if we had held out which was a decent possibility.
We looked great for the first twenty minutes, but stopped playing football after that. We should have tried to go for a second as it was obvious that defending a lead for 70 minutes against a side of Italy's calibre wouldn't work; and sure enough, it didn't.
It was obvious even after 30 minutes that our tactics were no longer working and a change was needed, but Southgate did nothing. You cannot play attack vs defence for most of the game against a top side and expect to get a result - it was utterly predictable. As a consequence, we were absolutely dire in the second half as we had no way of taking the pressure off our defence by playing in the opposition's half. Their goal was inevitable and only some very good defending from us and a big dose of luck prevented us being beaten in normal time.
Southgate only reacted when it was too late, changing the system to allow us to at least have a chance of scoring. Imagine if Grealish (I think that Foden being unavailable was a real shame) had had a whole half to try and unlock the Italian defence instead of a few minutes in extra time?
It isn't Southgate's fault that nearly all of his subs came on and played badly (e.g Henderson, Saka); if they had played as well as they were capable of, then things could maybe have been different, but after the first twenty we looked like losers.
I felt really sorry for the subs coming on at the end; barely getting a kick in the tournament at that point is unlikely to have helped their confidence; expecting them to step up and do the necessary under the highest pressure conditions possible in the game was always a step too far, especially the youngsters. We don't know the ins and outs of who wanted to take a penalty or not, so it is unfair to blame any individuals involved, especially Sancho and Saka. I also felt sorry for Pickford who did exceptionally well under the circumstances; if you save two out of five, then you expect to be in with a good chance of winning the shoot out, but to put your chances in the hands of youngsters is far to much to expect.
Still, I never expected us to get this far, so I can't be too disappointed at the final outcome, which I actually expected before the game kicked off.
And as for the racial abuse etc. from the usual morons; I believe that it is now time for the football world to put its money where its mouth is and stage a PROPER boycott of Twitter until they introduce a voluntary registration scheme whereby prominent people (and indeed, anyone) can choose to only receive messages from traceable accounts. As I said before, some morons will probably still do it (stupid is as stupid does), but at least some of these cowards would be answerable for their actions - put their names and faces in the papers and see how they fucking like it. I'd like to punch one of c***s if I had the chance, wouldn't you?
Why Twitter have not acted to do this yet is the question everyone should be asking of them. Unless all football clubs and organisations demand action and boycott social media, then they are just full of shit and don't actually care about the harm being done to young people whose only 'crime' is to fail to kick a ball into net in a sports game.
Time for actions, not words.
Congratulations, Italy. You were too good for us. Congratulations, England, you did far better than any of us realistically expected. You can be very proud.
Now we can turn our attention to a barnstorming promotion season for the Addicks. COYR!
A boycott of Instagram/Twitter by leading clubs and organisations would I'm sure get a response given the financial impact but would they do it and take the financial hit themselves? Thierry Henry dropped his accounts earlier this year in response to the lack of action.
Watching, say, Italy and Germany tournament after tournament they seem to exude their Italianness and Germanness. And this force of collective personality and identity is a significant factor in winning tournaments (it seems) And the same with Argentina.
With the exception of, say, France (when every member of their cup winning squads were effectively the best players in the world iat that time in their respective positions) I see that a team missing national identity and character falls short at the business end of International tournaments. What do others think?
Are we really prepared to be having the same shitfest at the next international tournament? Christ, I hope not.
Twitter, by their inaction, are effectively endorsing the situation. If enough people act and it hits their advertising revenues, then they will do something. Corporations are great a virtue signalling when they think that there is a financial advantage to doing so. The idea of 'ethical' corporations is laughable - they care about money, and that's all. The social media giants talk a good game, but they are full of shit as they won't actually DO anything to remedy the situation, when it is in their hands to change things. They are charlatans.
It's up to the football community to force the issue. The question is, do they ACTUALLY care, or is it just about the optics and being seen to say the 'right' things?
As night follows day, as soon as 3 black lads missed the penalities it is just a tsunami of abuse. ( By the utter pond life)
Jack Grealish offered to take a pen and as coach he would have been my number 5 because Jack Said "Pressure is a privilege" He never looks nervous just keen.
My main concern with the Rashford and Sancho subs were young fast Lads could have been given the whole of the second period of ET as Sterling had run his race. I would have kept Harry Kane as he was my nap to score his pen as I felt sure he would go back to his normal technique. ( He did)
I don't think Rashford had a poor season but he had a long season and his levels dropped in the last two months of the season. Rashford is turning into a Morata type hot and cold player.
I like Dortmund and Sancho has a very good penalty taking record.
Kane
McGuire Shaw Sancho Grealish were the guys I picked with Rashford 6th. I had no idea if Jack and Luke wanted the job or not but my skills would have gone into overdrive and there is no way they wouldn't have been confident.
Beyond gutted for Mrs Southgate who won't now be known as Lady Southgate as the 3 lads got stage fright.
On the train to work and just absolutely gutted still.
The eldest broke down in tears after the game, saying " I waited all day and night for this, for these, these Fuckers to lose" hes 9.
I couldn't help but laugh and then try to explain to him what he witnessed was the start of something special and that nobody thought we would make it to the final 6 months ago.
You'll have to show him "One Night In Turin" next...
I feel totally gutted this morning. Went on fb and the usual casual England fans have already turned after their day in the sun. Fuck off. We can disect the final to pieces but we didn’t win and that’s life. Had an amazing 4 weeks watching and this team will improve for the experience. Well done lads.
The best team won - I do wonder if our tactics had been better whether we could have lifted the trophy? Mancini is more tactically astute than Southgate and it wasn't simply about the players available.
I disagree. The best team was us for the first 35 minutes then we went into our shell. I’m not asking for 90 minutes of a perfect game but there was no tactical masterclass from Mancini, we just turned shit. Whatever, they won over 12 yards we didn’t. Till next time.
“we just turned shit”? Come on, England started well, exploited Italy down the right. Italy figured that out, plugged the gap and were the better team second half + extra time because if it.
I'm going to put 1-1 on my Euro's wall chart with no mention of pens at all. Italy v England draw, trophy shared.
How can I shut my eyes when I see Rashford, Sancho and Saka making such feeble efforts.
Feel sorry for the 55 and overs who may have lost their last chance of success.
1. Think we shaded extra time.
2. I’m 64 and don’t feel that this is our last chance off success. Our players have improved technically in leaps and bounds, and we’ll learn from the last two tournaments. Of course it’ll be tough to win a major one - look at all the countries who ‘fail’ at each World Cup and Euros. But I think we’ll be in with a decent chance.
For those saying we should've picked more experienced penalty takers, Jorginho's penalty record before last night was scored 39, missed 5. He scored with ease in the semi final win. Then he missed last night.
Has anyone ever seen Harry Maguire take a penalty? He smashed home one of the best i've seen.
You can be as experienced as they come and practise every day, but there's no guarantees in a shoot out.
Would really like to see another manager in charge for the World Cup next year - someone who will make us an exciting attacking side. Dean Smith would be a good candidate.
Would really like to see another manager in charge for the World Cup next year - someone who will make us an exciting attacking side. Dean Smith would be a good candidate.
That's one way for Jack Grealish to start the match.
I think Qatar will be survival of the fittest, weird time of the year, conditions will be horrible for some games, and you'll see some weird results, so oddly I don't expect much, Germany 2024 has to be a target to win, Belgium will be gone as a force, Italy in a rebuild, Germany will have lot of home advantage but I don't think they've got a squad and France will be France.
Funnily enough @Rothko I think the cup being played at that time of year will have the players fresher rather than at the end of a long European season which will hopefully negate some of the heat issue.
I think Qatar will be survival of the fittest, weird time of the year, conditions will be horrible for some games, and you'll see some weird results, so oddly I don't expect much, Germany 2024 has to be a target to win, Belgium will be gone as a force, Italy in a rebuild, Germany will have lot of home advantage but I don't think they've got a squad and France will be France.
Funnily enough @Rothko I think the cup being played at that time of year will have the players fresher rather than at the end of a long European season which will hopefully negate some of the heat issue.
I can see why that may be. Not sure there will be a heat issue. It should be on a par with holding the tournament in Europe in June/July.
Cant wait for Pep and Klopp to moan about how exhausted their returning players will be.
Could really throw the top Divisions wide open if someone hasnt opened up a gap before what I presume will be the break.
Liverpool are barely affected though. TAA injured, Henderson a bit part player. City will be most affected, especially as they also have players who reached the QF and SF for other countries
Indeed one of the healthy things about this England team (and indeed the Italian team) is that the players aren't just from a handful of giant clubs. Of England's regulars in the tournament
Everton - Pickford City - Walker, Stones, Sterling United - Shaw, Maguire West Ham - Rice Leeds - Phillips Chelsea - Mount Spurs - Kane
The other players who played some meaningful part - Trippier, Henderson, Mings, Rashford, Sancho, Grealish, Saka, Foden, James - add another 5 clubs (including 2 foreign ones)
I feel totally gutted this morning. Went on fb and the usual casual England fans have already turned after their day in the sun. Fuck off. We can disect the final to pieces but we didn’t win and that’s life. Had an amazing 4 weeks watching and this team will improve for the experience. Well done lads.
The best team won - I do wonder if our tactics had been better whether we could have lifted the trophy? Mancini is more tactically astute than Southgate and it wasn't simply about the players available.
I disagree. The best team was us for the first 35 minutes then we went into our shell. I’m not asking for 90 minutes of a perfect game but there was no tactical masterclass from Mancini, we just turned shit. Whatever, they won over 12 yards we didn’t. Till next time.
“we just turned shit”? Come on, England started well, exploited Italy down the right. Italy figured that out, plugged the gap and were the better team second half + extra time because if it.
I'm going to put 1-1 on my Euro's wall chart with no mention of pens at all. Italy v England draw, trophy shared.
How can I shut my eyes when I see Rashford, Sancho and Saka making such feeble efforts.
Feel sorry for the 55 and overs who may have lost their last chance of success.
1. Think we shaded extra time.
2. I’m 64 and don’t feel that this is our last chance off success. Our players have improved technically in leaps and bounds, and we’ll learn from the last two tournaments. Of course it’ll be tough to win a major one - look at all the countries who ‘fail’ at each World Cup and Euros. But I think we’ll be in with a decent chance.
James, when I met you on the train or have seen you at London bridge station I thought you were about 50, but I'm getting bombarded by email, text and letter from Specsavers for an eye test !
Italy are a very good side. They were always going to dominate the ball and there is no shame in losing to them, especially on penalties. Southgate’s tactics were IMO spot on and but for an unlucky ricochet off the post at a set piece, we would’ve held on for a 1-0 win
Until we have box to box midfielders with the technical quality of Jorginho, Verratti et al, the game was always going to play out the way it did. Putting on a Grealish or a Foden (if he was fit) doesn’t magically flip the script like some seem to think.
Can only really think of Scholes in my lifetime who has been that kind of player for England, we seem to either have decent defensive midfielders like Rice, or "final 3rd" types midfielders like Foden/Grealish (and Gerrard, Lampard etc).
We just don't seem to produce the Pirlo, Madrid, Kroos type midfielders, and I think it's the one big thing missing at the moment.
Imagine a player like that playing clever little balls into the likes of Sancho, Sterling, Foden etc.
It all comes down to style of play and coaching. Pretty sure Foden and Grealish have the ability to play central midfield but it would require the team set up to support keeping the ball rather than just defending and Southgate just isn't capable enough to make it happen.
Who would you like as manager? Genuine question, I don't watch enough football outside of Charlton games to keep up to date with the Prem.
Italy are a very good side. They were always going to dominate the ball and there is no shame in losing to them, especially on penalties. Southgate’s tactics were IMO spot on and but for an unlucky ricochet off the post at a set piece, we would’ve held on for a 1-0 win
Until we have box to box midfielders with the technical quality of Jorginho, Verratti et al, the game was always going to play out the way it did. Putting on a Grealish or a Foden (if he was fit) doesn’t magically flip the script like some seem to think.
Can only really think of Scholes in my lifetime who has been that kind of player for England, we seem to either have decent defensive midfielders like Rice, or "final 3rd" types midfielders like Foden/Grealish (and Gerrard, Lampard etc).
We just don't seem to produce the Pirlo, Madrid, Kroos type midfielders, and I think it's the one big thing missing at the moment.
Imagine a player like that playing clever little balls into the likes of Sancho, Sterling, Foden etc.
It all comes down to style of play and coaching. Pretty sure Foden and Grealish have the ability to play central midfield but it would require the team set up to support keeping the ball rather than just defending and Southgate just isn't capable enough to make it happen.
It's not about that coaching at international level, no England manager is going to change what type of player someone is with the short time they have with them - as a country we just don't seem to produce those sorts of players.
Apart from Scholes who I've mentioned, the only one who maybe had that style was Wilshere, shame he could never stay fit and build on his early promise.
Italy are a very good side. They were always going to dominate the ball and there is no shame in losing to them, especially on penalties. Southgate’s tactics were IMO spot on and but for an unlucky ricochet off the post at a set piece, we would’ve held on for a 1-0 win
Until we have box to box midfielders with the technical quality of Jorginho, Verratti et al, the game was always going to play out the way it did. Putting on a Grealish or a Foden (if he was fit) doesn’t magically flip the script like some seem to think.
Can only really think of Scholes in my lifetime who has been that kind of player for England, we seem to either have decent defensive midfielders like Rice, or "final 3rd" types midfielders like Foden/Grealish (and Gerrard, Lampard etc).
We just don't seem to produce the Pirlo, Madrid, Kroos type midfielders, and I think it's the one big thing missing at the moment.
Imagine a player like that playing clever little balls into the likes of Sancho, Sterling, Foden etc.
It all comes down to style of play and coaching. Pretty sure Foden and Grealish have the ability to play central midfield but it would require the team set up to support keeping the ball rather than just defending and Southgate just isn't capable enough to make it happen.
Who would you like as manager? Genuine question, I don't watch enough football outside of Charlton games to keep up to date with the Prem.
Sticking with English managers can only really be Potter from Brighton or Dean Smith from Villa. Brighton play very good football so a potter side with genuine talent all over the pitch would be tasty. Smith at Brentford played great football and he's done very well with Villa in the premier league although they have spent a shit load.
Dream appointment would be Pep and realistic "foreign" appointment Brenden Rodgers would be a good shout. Southgate has us playing like a relegation battling premier league team when they play a top 4 team when we have top 4 players and should be playing like a top 4 team.
Comments
Are we really prepared to be having the same shitfest at the next international tournament? Christ, I hope not.
Twitter, by their inaction, are effectively endorsing the situation. If enough people act and it hits their advertising revenues, then they will do something. Corporations are great a virtue signalling when they think that there is a financial advantage to doing so. The idea of 'ethical' corporations is laughable - they care about money, and that's all. The social media giants talk a good game, but they are full of shit as they won't actually DO anything to remedy the situation, when it is in their hands to change things. They are charlatans.
It's up to the football community to force the issue. The question is, do they ACTUALLY care, or is it just about the optics and being seen to say the 'right' things?
I have my suspicions, TBH.
Jack Grealish offered to take a pen and as coach he would have been my number 5 because Jack Said "Pressure is a privilege"
He never looks nervous just keen.
My main concern with the Rashford and Sancho subs were young fast Lads could have been given the whole of the second period of ET as Sterling had run his race. I would have kept Harry Kane as he was my nap to score his pen as I felt sure he would go back to his normal technique. ( He did)
I don't think Rashford had a poor season but he had a long season and his levels dropped in the last two months of the season. Rashford is turning into a Morata type hot and cold player.
I like Dortmund and Sancho has a very good penalty taking record.
Kane
Shaw
Sancho
Grealish were the guys I picked with Rashford 6th. I had no idea if Jack and Luke wanted the job or not but my skills would have gone into overdrive and there is no way they wouldn't have been confident.
Beyond gutted for Mrs Southgate who won't now be known as Lady Southgate as the 3 lads got stage fright.
Has anyone ever seen Harry Maguire take a penalty? He smashed home one of the best i've seen.
You can be as experienced as they come and practise every day, but there's no guarantees in a shoot out.
That's one way for Jack Grealish to start the match.
Could really throw the top Divisions wide open if someone hasnt opened up a gap before what I presume will be the break.
Indeed one of the healthy things about this England team (and indeed the Italian team) is that the players aren't just from a handful of giant clubs. Of England's regulars in the tournament
Everton - Pickford
City - Walker, Stones, Sterling
United - Shaw, Maguire
West Ham - Rice
Leeds - Phillips
Chelsea - Mount
Spurs - Kane
The other players who played some meaningful part - Trippier, Henderson, Mings, Rashford, Sancho, Grealish, Saka, Foden, James - add another 5 clubs (including 2 foreign ones)
James, when I met you on the train or have seen you at London bridge station I thought you were about 50, but I'm getting bombarded by email, text and letter from Specsavers for an eye test !
Apart from Scholes who I've mentioned, the only one who maybe had that style was Wilshere, shame he could never stay fit and build on his early promise.
Sticking with English managers can only really be Potter from Brighton or Dean Smith from Villa. Brighton play very good football so a potter side with genuine talent all over the pitch would be tasty. Smith at Brentford played great football and he's done very well with Villa in the premier league although they have spent a shit load.
Dream appointment would be Pep and realistic "foreign" appointment Brenden Rodgers would be a good shout. Southgate has us playing like a relegation battling premier league team when they play a top 4 team when we have top 4 players and should be playing like a top 4 team.