Absolutely mental. I think Southgate got it wrong last night but how on earth could anyone be considering getting rid??
I’m as big a critic as anyone but he’s 100% worth his job. He has us beating the sides we should be beating, playing as a team and has introduced such positivity into the squad. We’ve got a Semi Final and a Final. You can’t ask for a lot more.
He needs to spend the next 18 months focusing on how we can become more effective with the ball and slightly more attacking. Having that edge will put us in a far better spot against the very top sides.
Foden (providing he continued his trajectory) has to play a bigger role next tournament. As much as he wasn’t amazing this time around we can’t just shorthorn him in at RW for the sake of it. I truly believe he’s the future of English football and probably the player to replace Sterling.
If anyone can develop this young squad, it’s Southgate.
I've been a fan of Southgate and defended him before. I think he's done a fantastic job at rebuilding and refocusing the England team, as well as changing the whole atmosphere around and within the team. I think he's been the right man up to now and shudder at the thought that it could've been Allardyce instead.
I do, however, have sympathy with those questioning whether he is the right man going forward. England partly lost because Italy are a bit better than them, but also partly, I think, because the surrendered the advantage last night. I think the formation was too negative and the subs too late. Southgate is a cautious, defensive manager by nature. Nothing wrong with that, it's a valid way to play football, but is it going to take England, with their rich attacking options, that final step to winning something? I'm not convinced.
I feel like we are kind of like we were at half time. One-nil up, seemingly in a strong position, but already the tide was starting to turn and the early warning signs were there. I wanted a proactive sub at halftime last night to try and swing the momentum our way before it got too far away from us and the chance was lost. I have this sense that might be where we sit with Southgate now, like a proactive change might be the way to go.
I suggest that change not because I'm unhappy with what he has done to date, far from it he's been brilliant, overall, but because I question if he ids the right man to take us where we need to go. It's just what my gut says. There's lots of strong arguments, backed up by more than the gut feel of a armchair pundit, as to why he shouldn't be moved on yet.
This current crop though truly does feel like a crop that could win something and I don't wan to see that chance go begging due to sentimentality. Who replaces Southgate though, that's a tougher call. I don't think it has to be someone with a track record at club level - that's not been a good barometer for international success in the past.
Southgate took us to a semi final and final (lost on pens). Your even contemplating getting rid of him? 🙈 each to their own and all that.
Could have got to a final and won the euros with a decent manager so yes I would 100% contemplate getting rid of him. We probably have the best squad in world football right now other than France and we played awful football this whole tournament and at the last world cup. France went out because their manager pulled a Southgate and set them up ridiculously by minimising their strengths and maximising their weakness. Mancini and Enrique show what a good manager can do with squads not as talented as ours.
Italy absolutely bossed us and the only players I'd take from them are veratti and jorginho (who Southgate would probably bench as he wouldn't know what to do with them). Spain absolutely bossed Italy and the only players I'd take from them are pedri and busquets (and I doubt Pedri would get a look in under Southgate). No idea why people are happy with the way we play with the sheer quality we possess.
The only excuse for playing the way we do is to win and we didn't even do that. The players got us to the final with their quality, Southgate lost us it.
Madness. Take the starting elevens of each team last night. The only English players that get into that Italian XI are Kane, Sterling, Shaw and Walker. Some massively overstating the quality in our ranks.
The English are all very good players and we have probably the best depth in the world at the moment but the Italians are 34 unbeaten because they have probably the best XI in world football.
Donnarumma over Pickford Walker over Di Lorenzo Bonucci over Stones Chiellini over Maguire Shaw over Emerson Jorginho over Rice Verratti over Phillips Barella over Mount Sterling over Insigne Kane over Immobile
Watched it back a couple of times & I still don't understand why that's not a red card
Emerson one was questionable too. Watched Wales get 2 reds for softer tackles.
It could have been deemed a red but I think the fact first contact was on the ball saved him. Calling for the Chiellini drag back on Saka to be a red is ridiculous.
Think everyone understands it’s not a red, but it should be.
It was blatant cheating, the most clearcut of yellows possible. Yes it wasn’t stopping an obvious scoring chance, although we were in.
But it was arguably also violent, choked Saka round the throat. Might have been a red in Rugby FFS. Definitely a yellow / sin bin
Compare it to the Beckham sending off in 98 for example. What’s the more violent act?
Think Chiellini could also have been pinged for fouling Stones for the goal on another day.
I accept we lost it (or didn’t win it) in the second half when we should have changed things earlier, but threat of pace towards the end of the game was perhaps our strongest card and we were cheated out of it.
Btw I was there last. Was very, very feisty beforehand, but no more than that from what I saw. Some lads without tickets tried to squeeze in behind us. But atmosphere after was relatively calm. People sitting near us were great. Didn’t boo anthems or knee taking, everything was positive support for the team. Probably the biggest one off event in this country this century. Shame a minority are selfish bellends.
Madness. Take the starting elevens of each team last night. The only English players that get into that Italian XI are Kane, Sterling, Shaw and Walker. Some massively overstating the quality in our ranks.
The English are all very good players and we have probably the best depth in the world at the moment but the Italians are 34 unbeaten because they have probably the best XI in world football.
Donnarumma over Pickford Walker over Di Lorenzo Bonucci over Stones Chiellini over Maguire Shaw over Emerson Jorginho over Rice Verratti over Phillips Barella over Mount Sterling over Insigne Kane over Immobile
I'll give you donnarumma, forgot about him but Pickford was actually very good this tournament.
Mount wouldn't be in my starting 11 after his early performances but he would for sure have got significant game time with Italy and would have actually been utilised properly. He was anonymous for us because of the system we play.
Disagree on the others except veratti and jorginho. Maguire would fit the Italians extremely well with his ability on the ball and Stones has just won the premier league and played in the champions league final so more than good enough for me and I don't see bonucci or chiellini as being a real upgrade. We made it easy for both of them yesterday.
Sancho, grealish and foden would all walk into that Italian team as well.
Who from the Spanish team would you have over our players btw? They were all over Italy in the same way Italy were all over us and should have beaten them with the chances they created. If we could play like that and create like that with the players we have then we would have stood a much much higher chance of winning that final and that is all down to the difference in class between the managers and their tactics / playing mentality.
We beat the teams we should be beating (Scotland apart) and don’t beat the teams we shouldn’t . We’re a decent team who have ridden the crest of favourable draws , there’s definitely more to come but they’ll need to open up a bit more and be expansive if their gonna win footballs top prize next year .
World Cup
13% winners 12% runners up 25% losing semi 25% losing quarters 15% losing last 16 10% out in the group stage
it’s not coming homing home till we get a personality
Reading the reaction from around Europe on Reddit, they are all asking why we would bring on substitutions cold to take penalties. Also asking why we would give the decisive penalty to a nineteen-year-old. So even the neutrals are calling out those decisions.
Clearly Southgate has chosen the 'best' penalty takers on the training ground, but taking a penalty in a knockout tournament doesn't seem to be about technique so much as nerve and to a certain extent, form. I'm not sure the question should be: is he a good technical penalty taker? ... So much as, does this player have the state of mind to go and smash it in?
As Peter Crouch said on his podcast recently, it's rare a player will miss a penalty on the training ground. But stepping up in a big match to take one is a completely different proposition, and it's 90% strength of mind.
A lot of good lessons to be learned from that match. I think (and hope) GS is smart enough to learn them. But I did think the early goal and the way we sat back was too similar to Croatia, and we changed it too little and too late again.
Still, I was just happy for us to be in a final, to be honest.
The thing that bothers me is that why Southgate didn't know that in the first place?! You know it, i know it, half of Europe you're saying know it but not the England manager.
I woke up at 4am and watched the second half, extra time and the penalty shootout. Was sad that England lost.
Not just half Europe were questioning Southgate's decision making... All the comments I saw on Chinese social media and heard at my workplace were similar. Many criticised Southgate for being way too negative besides the apparently wrong penalty takers selection. I know my opinions will be unpopular on here having read this thread but... why after Croatia 2018, would you still do the same ie. sit so deep having scored early? You think a one goal lead would be enough to win the game against a side like Italy? Or were you just putting all your hope in a penalty shootout?(which is erm.. cowardly in my opinion because if you lose on penalty it’s down to bad luck and you get away with it.) Italian players are physically much bigger and stronger so defending a one goal lead against them is extremely difficult. You are not a Sam Allardyce type of team (cue Bolton) so you can’t just retreat to your own half and keep defending in the hope that luck will go your way - you earn your luck. With the way you played in the second half it was simply a matter of time you conceded.
Having said the above, I must point out that I really like this team of players. Rice was absolutely incredible especially in the final. Sterling changed my old impressions of him. I think he was one of the most hardworking players in the team. Shaw has become my new favourite England player - I liked him when he was in Southampton and it’s truly an inspiration that after having a potentially career-destroying injury he has not only fully recovered but gone on to be one of the best left-backs in Europe - hope that’s not an exaggeration. (And Mourinho would you shut up? So pathetic.) Mount and Foden caught my eye in the first game - sadly Mount was not as impressive in the latter stage of the tournament while Foden couldn’t play due to injury but these two will be the ones that I look forward to watching in WC 2022. Last but not least, Pickford - I happened to have watched his Premier League debut back in 2016 - it was a 1-4 loss to Spurs. I was thinking Sunderland were really brave to play such a young goalkeeper in league games. Over five years later now he’s England’s No.1 keeper and the saves he made in games against Denmark and Italy were superb!! The Italian keeper saved three relatively easy pens while Pickford saved two difficult ones. He would have been the national hero if Rashford and co’s pens had gone in. 👏👏👏
Reading the reaction from around Europe on Reddit, they are all asking why we would bring on substitutions cold to take penalties. Also asking why we would give the decisive penalty to a nineteen-year-old. So even the neutrals are calling out those decisions.
Clearly Southgate has chosen the 'best' penalty takers on the training ground, but taking a penalty in a knockout tournament doesn't seem to be about technique so much as nerve and to a certain extent, form. I'm not sure the question should be: is he a good technical penalty taker? ... So much as, does this player have the state of mind to go and smash it in?
As Peter Crouch said on his podcast recently, it's rare a player will miss a penalty on the training ground. But stepping up in a big match to take one is a completely different proposition, and it's 90% strength of mind.
A lot of good lessons to be learned from that match. I think (and hope) GS is smart enough to learn them. But I did think the early goal and the way we sat back was too similar to Croatia, and we changed it too little and too late again.
Still, I was just happy for us to be in a final, to be honest.
The thing that bothers me is that why Southgate didn't know that in the first place?! You know it, i know it, half of Europe you're saying know it but not the England manager.
I woke up at 4am and watched the second half, extra time and the penalty shootout. Was sad that England lost.
Not just half Europe were questioning Southgate's decision making... All the comments I saw on Chinese social media and heard at my workplace were similar. Many criticised Southgate for being way too negative besides the apparently wrong penalty takers selection. I know my opinions will be unpopular on here having read this thread but... why after Croatia 2018, would you still do the same ie. sit so deep having scored early? You think a one goal lead would be enough to win the game against a side like Italy? Or were you just putting all your hope in a penalty shootout?(which is erm.. cowardly in my opinion because if you lose on penalty it’s down to bad luck and you get away with it.) Italian players are physically much bigger and stronger so defending a one goal lead against them is extremely difficult. You are not a Sam Allardyce type of team (cue Bolton) so you can’t just retreat to your own half and keep defending in the hope that luck will go your way - you earn your luck. With the way you played in the second half it was simply a matter of time you conceded.
Having said the above, I must point out that I really like this team of players. Rice was absolutely incredible especially in the final. Sterling changed my old impressions of him. I think he was one of the most hardworking players in the team. Shaw has become my new favourite England player - I liked him when he was in Southampton and it’s truly an inspiration that after having a potentially career-destroying injury he has not only fully recovered but gone on to be one of the best left-backs in Europe - hope that’s not an exaggeration. (And Mourinho would you shut up? So pathetic.) Mount and Foden caught my eye in the first game - sadly Mount was not as impressive in the latter stage of the tournament while Foden couldn’t play due to injury but these two will be the ones that I look forward to watching in WC 2022. Last but not least, Pickford - I happened to have watched his Premier League debut back in 2016 - it was a 1-4 loss to Spurs. I was thinking Sunderland were really brave to play such a young goalkeeper in league games. Over five years later now he’s England’s No.1 keeper and the saves he made in games against Denmark and Italy were superb!! The Italian keeper saved three relatively easy pens while Pickford saved two difficult ones. He would have been the national hero if Rashford and co’s pens had gone in. 👏👏👏
Hi Jessie, I too got up at 4 to watch the game. The way the team was set up in my opinion was for the counter attack. That worked for the first 15 minutes or so, but the wily Italians saw through it and as the game progressed they grew into the game in a big atmosphere Wembley Stadium. I think the dominated the second half because we hadn't changed our formation....the packed midfield was overrun in my opinion. The pick of the Italians for me was Chiesa, powerful and direct.
We looked better in the extra time period, but the changes were made far too late.
Having said all this I absolutely hate Italian football. They are skilful, but the cynical fouling and rolling around like they have been gutted when they get the slightest touch is very difficult to stomach...it was evident in this team and has been evident in past Italian teams.
Mancini is still a tart even as he gets older, fussing with his hair in just about every close up shot, but he did make changes and at the right times to good effect. Lets hope all the boys and Southgate have leaned a valuable lesson. Im very proud of our boys, nobody least of all me, expected to go so far. There really is something there for us to build on. Roll on the WC.
Far be it from me to offer Southgate advice, but I believe if he made one tweak to his approach we may have done even better. That is not to change your thinking or set up but if you feel control slipping away in a game, change it quickly. That is all.
Hi @TEL totally agree with you regarding Italy. I almost typed 'They are so dirty' on here while watching the game. They played like that and were difficult to watch for me who was obviously rooting for their opponents. Chiellini's foul on Saka was absolutely ridiculous and is something I'll always remember🙄
Far be it from me to offer Southgate advice, but I believe if he made one tweak to his approach we may have done even better. That is not to change your thinking or set up but if you feel control slipping away in a game, change it quickly. That is all.
Yes that was exactly what I said to my parents when talking about this game. While Mancini was busy putting subs on, Southgate did nothing. Mount was invisible in the second half (for the first ten or 15 minutes I thought he was not on the pitch😅) It was not you didn't have the choices on the bench to choose from. Grealish etc. should've been brought on much earlier.
I recall when I was assisting a manager and we were really struggling. I said to him that we had to change it quickly before we went behind. He agreed but said he didn't know how to change it to make a difference. I said, neither do I but we can see what we are doing isn't working so doing something different can't make things worse.
We did change it and still got well beaten, but at least we tried. I would say that Southgate probably had better options than we did and the point stands. It is that point where you can see what is probably going to happen, but it hasn't happened yet that is the difficult part for a manager at all levels.
Yes that's why I think doing nothing is somewhat cowardly. Making changes is riskier and sometimes will make things worse just like in your case. But the ability to observe and make correct tactical decisions with the options you have during a game when facing challenges/difficulties is what separates great coaches from average ones.
Far be it from me to offer Southgate advice, but I believe if he made one tweak to his approach we may have done even better. That is not to change your thinking or set up but if you feel control slipping away in a game, change it quickly. That is all.
Mate we saw the same thing against Croatia in the semi final and Holland in the nations league, Colombia in the last 16. We don’t have enough shots which is purely down to the manager being defensive minded. Ukraine was the exception.
At Qatar Southgate must get us to be more bold and positive with the football. That is the next step we must take to win anything.
Lots of people digging out Southgate for bringing on two penalty takers but that's hardly revolutionary, seen it happen many times. Netherlands even brought Krul on once with a minute to go. It doesn't help that they both missed and was also a bit shambolic that they made the change when Italy had a corner.
Rashford - woefully out of form for club and country. Hardly kicked a ball in the tournament. Bring him on completely cold to take a pen in the biggest game this country has ever seen for 50 odd years.
I think if Gareth had punched all that into his calculator it wouldn't of spat out the answer he was looking for.
Rashford has confirmed this morning that he wasn't in the right frame of mind before taking it. And who can blame him.
If I've got one complaint at Southgate, and they are few, it's reading the room in some match situations. I'm still amazed with how he let the latter stages of that game pan out.
I don't have an issue with a defensive mindset. It is only when it clearly isn't working do I advocate changing it. When Italy scored, you could sort of feel a goal might be coming. We couldn't get the ball to our offensive players, to relieve some pressure at least, as we were sitting too deep. That is the point you do something, not wait for it the goal to come.
Lots of people digging out Southgate for bringing on two penalty takers but that's hardly revolutionary, seen it happen many times. Netherlands even brought Krul on once with a minute to go. It doesn't help that they both missed and was also a bit shambolic that they made the change when Italy had a corner.
Rashford - woefully out of form for club and country. Hardly kicked a ball in the tournament. Bring him on completely cold to take a pen in the biggest game this country has ever seen for 50 odd years.
I think if Gareth had punched all that into his calculator it wouldn't of spat out the answer he was looking for.
Rashford has confirmed this morning that he wasn't in the right frame of mind before taking it. And who can blame him.
If I've got one complaint at Southgate, and they are few, it's reading the room in some match situations. I'm still amazed with how he let the latter stages of that game pan out.
They were pre-planned pen takers. If Rashford wasn’t in the right frame of mind then he should of said something. I’m sure Southgate would of checked with his pen takers before they took them they were still okay to take one? It’s what he was doing when he was walking around the huddle is presume. Or is Rashford ‘wasn’t in the right frame of mind’ in hindsight?
I don't know. There would have been an immense amount on pressure for him to take one given he was brought on a left back for a minute with the sole purpose of taking a penalty. In all honesty, he is a reliable penalty taker and has history of converting pressure kicks. I think it probably wasn't the time to take the sort of kick he did but these things happen.
Madness. Take the starting elevens of each team last night. The only English players that get into that Italian XI are Kane, Sterling, Shaw and Walker. Some massively overstating the quality in our ranks.
The English are all very good players and we have probably the best depth in the world at the moment but the Italians are 34 unbeaten because they have probably the best XI in world football.
Donnarumma over Pickford Walker over Di Lorenzo Bonucci over Stones Chiellini over Maguire Shaw over Emerson Jorginho over Rice Verratti over Phillips Barella over Mount Sterling over Insigne Kane over Immobile
I'll give you donnarumma, forgot about him but Pickford was actually very good this tournament.
Mount wouldn't be in my starting 11 after his early performances but he would for sure have got significant game time with Italy and would have actually been utilised properly. He was anonymous for us because of the system we play.
Disagree on the others except veratti and jorginho. Maguire would fit the Italians extremely well with his ability on the ball and Stones has just won the premier league and played in the champions league final so more than good enough for me and I don't see bonucci or chiellini as being a real upgrade. We made it easy for both of them yesterday.
Sancho, grealish and foden would all walk into that Italian team as well.
You forgot the bloke that saved two of our penalties?
Interesting hearing your Views @Jessie and you make some valid points.
Despite yet again taking the lead, similar to the Croatia game in the WC, the big difference was we had a better team and squad this time. No Dier and Ali, an improved Sterling, Kane, Walker, Stones, Trippier who all had good Tournaments. Shaw once he got the shirt from Chilwell because he was resting after the CL final was sensational and was the England star player over the 7 matches. Maguire was a man mountain once he was fit to play. Rice and Phillips were excellent. Pickford had one erratic game against Denmark but is improved.
But, we were playing Italy in the final and 1 goal was unlikely to be enough to win it. Giving international teams with good technical ability 66% of the possession is so difficult mentally and physically in the biggest games of their lives to stop scoring over 90 or 120 minutes. We did it very well but then switched off at a corner with several England players in poor positions.
Until Grealish, Foden, Rice, Bellingham or someone is given licence to try to command the middle of the park, we will continue to rely on going the distance and you know what comes next !
To everyone questioning Southgate - I think he's sorted our defensive side, now he just needs to make the front 3/4 work better. Too often Kane was too deep and the wingers therefore were also too deep or Kane was too far forward and best CB in the world right now was on his shoulder, out jumping, out fouling and generally bullying him.
I am sure Southgate recognises that we need to adapt our forward play and I am sure we'll see the benefits next season.
Lots of people digging out Southgate for bringing on two penalty takers but that's hardly revolutionary, seen it happen many times. Netherlands even brought Krul on once with a minute to go. It doesn't help that they both missed and was also a bit shambolic that they made the change when Italy had a corner.
Rashford - woefully out of form for club and country. Hardly kicked a ball in the tournament. Bring him on completely cold to take a pen in the biggest game this country has ever seen for 50 odd years.
I think if Gareth had punched all that into his calculator it wouldn't of spat out the answer he was looking for.
Rashford has confirmed this morning that he wasn't in the right frame of mind before taking it. And who can blame him.
If I've got one complaint at Southgate, and they are few, it's reading the room in some match situations. I'm still amazed with how he let the latter stages of that game pan out.
They were pre-planned pen takers. If Rashford wasn’t in the right frame of mind then he should of said something. I’m sure Southgate would of checked with his pen takers before they took them they were still okay to take one? It’s what he was doing when he was walking around the huddle is presume. Or is Rashford ‘wasn’t in the right frame of mind’ in hindsight?
But there's an argument that the pre plan went out of the window somewhat. For instance how about Shaw taking one? Arguably one of the players of the tournament just scored a goal and brimming with confidence?
Anyway, it's pens and a lottery so there's no real right or wrong. I'm just trying to think how I would feel if I'd hardly kicked a ball all tournament and he'd asked me to come in cold and take a pen in the biggest game of our time.
Madness. Take the starting elevens of each team last night. The only English players that get into that Italian XI are Kane, Sterling, Shaw and Walker. Some massively overstating the quality in our ranks.
The English are all very good players and we have probably the best depth in the world at the moment but the Italians are 34 unbeaten because they have probably the best XI in world football.
Donnarumma over Pickford Walker over Di Lorenzo Bonucci over Stones Chiellini over Maguire Shaw over Emerson Jorginho over Rice Verratti over Phillips Barella over Mount Sterling over Insigne Kane over Immobile
To everyone questioning Southgate - I think he's sorted our defensive side, now he just needs to make the front 3/4 work better. Too often Kane was too deep and the wingers therefore were also too deep or Kane was too far forward and best CB in the world right now was on his shoulder, out jumping, out fouling and generally bullying him.
I am sure Southgate recognises that we need to adapt our forward play and I am sure we'll see the benefits next season.
I thought Kane caused both centre halfs a lot of problems in the first 25 minutes, it was the most uncomfortable I had seen them in the whole tournament. It was only when Southgate decided we were going to defend our one goal lead they regained their composure.
We must also remember both of them were booked in the second half meaning we should have played through them drawing fouls and exploiting getting one of them a second booking and sent off.
Left the pub straight after the game & the streets in the town centre were full of youngsters fighting & arguing with each other. Heard a couple of pubs got shut down during the game too. I just don't get it.
Some proper bellends about last night & an England defeat always seems to bring out the worst in these twats
Should have been a 3pm kick off, would have stopped a load of trouble
The Euros and World Cup Finals have always been at 8pm on a Sunday
Unfortunately a number of England fans (wont call them a large number as dont think they represent the majority of our fans) have proven their immaturity compared to when other Nations get to a Final
Sorry to be a pedant but the Euro 1988 final was actually a 15:30ko. Van Basten scored in daylight. I make you right on all the others though (I think!)
I think 92 was a Friday tea time wasn't it?
Think it was early evening if I remember right
Was 7.15pm GMT on a Friday night. Remember it like it was yesterday. And I was old enough to drink.
Comments
He needs to spend the next 18 months focusing on how we can become more effective with the ball and slightly more attacking. Having that edge will put us in a far better spot against the very top sides.
Foden (providing he continued his trajectory) has to play a bigger role next tournament. As much as he wasn’t amazing this time around we can’t just shorthorn him in at RW for the sake of it. I truly believe he’s the future of English football and probably the player to replace Sterling.
Could have got to a final and won the euros with a decent manager so yes I would 100% contemplate getting rid of him. We probably have the best squad in world football right now other than France and we played awful football this whole tournament and at the last world cup. France went out because their manager pulled a Southgate and set them up ridiculously by minimising their strengths and maximising their weakness. Mancini and Enrique show what a good manager can do with squads not as talented as ours.
Italy absolutely bossed us and the only players I'd take from them are veratti and jorginho (who Southgate would probably bench as he wouldn't know what to do with them). Spain absolutely bossed Italy and the only players I'd take from them are pedri and busquets (and I doubt Pedri would get a look in under Southgate). No idea why people are happy with the way we play with the sheer quality we possess.
The only excuse for playing the way we do is to win and we didn't even do that. The players got us to the final with their quality, Southgate lost us it.
Donnarumma over Pickford
Walker over Di Lorenzo
Bonucci over Stones
Chiellini over Maguire
Shaw over Emerson
Jorginho over Rice
Verratti over Phillips
Barella over Mount
Sterling over Insigne
Kane over Immobile
But it was arguably also violent, choked Saka round the throat. Might have been a red in Rugby FFS. Definitely a yellow / sin bin
I accept we lost it (or didn’t win it) in the second half when we should have changed things earlier, but threat of pace towards the end of the game was perhaps our strongest card and we were cheated out of it.
Btw I was there last. Was very, very feisty beforehand, but no more than that from what I saw. Some lads without tickets tried to squeeze in behind us. But atmosphere after was relatively calm. People sitting near us were great. Didn’t boo anthems or knee taking, everything was positive support for the team. Probably the biggest one off event in this country this century. Shame a minority are selfish bellends.
I'll give you donnarumma, forgot about him but Pickford was actually very good this tournament.
Mount wouldn't be in my starting 11 after his early performances but he would for sure have got significant game time with Italy and would have actually been utilised properly. He was anonymous for us because of the system we play.
Disagree on the others except veratti and jorginho. Maguire would fit the Italians extremely well with his ability on the ball and Stones has just won the premier league and played in the champions league final so more than good enough for me and I don't see bonucci or chiellini as being a real upgrade. We made it easy for both of them yesterday.
Sancho, grealish and foden would all walk into that Italian team as well.
We’re a decent team who have ridden the crest of favourable draws , there’s definitely more to come but they’ll need to open up a bit more and be expansive if their gonna win footballs top prize next year .
World Cup
13% winners
12% runners up
25% losing semi
25% losing quarters
15% losing last 16
10% out in the group stage
it’s not coming homing home till we get a personality
We looked better in the extra time period, but the changes were made far too late.
Having said all this I absolutely hate Italian football. They are skilful, but the cynical fouling and rolling around like they have been gutted when they get the slightest touch is very difficult to stomach...it was evident in this team and has been evident in past Italian teams.
Mancini is still a tart even as he gets older, fussing with his hair in just about every close up shot, but he did make changes and at the right times to good effect. Lets hope all the boys and Southgate have leaned a valuable lesson. Im very proud of our boys, nobody least of all me, expected to go so far. There really is something there for us to build on. Roll on the WC.
Yes that was exactly what I said to my parents when talking about this game. While Mancini was busy putting subs on, Southgate did nothing. Mount was invisible in the second half (for the first ten or 15 minutes I thought he was not on the pitch😅) It was not you didn't have the choices on the bench to choose from. Grealish etc. should've been brought on much earlier.
We did change it and still got well beaten, but at least we tried. I would say that Southgate probably had better options than we did and the point stands. It is that point where you can see what is probably going to happen, but it hasn't happened yet that is the difficult part for a manager at all levels.
At Qatar Southgate must get us to be more bold and positive with the football. That is the next step we must take to win anything.
If I've got one complaint at Southgate, and they are few, it's reading the room in some match situations. I'm still amazed with how he let the latter stages of that game pan out.
Madness
Despite yet again taking the lead, similar to the Croatia game in the WC, the big difference was we had a better team and squad this time.
No Dier and Ali, an improved Sterling, Kane, Walker, Stones, Trippier who all had good Tournaments. Shaw once he got the shirt from Chilwell because he was resting after the CL final was sensational and was the England star player over the 7 matches.
Maguire was a man mountain once he was fit to play. Rice and Phillips were excellent.
Pickford had one erratic game against Denmark but is improved.
But, we were playing Italy in the final and 1 goal was unlikely to be enough to win it.
Giving international teams with good technical ability 66% of the possession is so difficult mentally and physically in the biggest games of their lives to stop scoring over 90 or 120 minutes. We did it very well but then switched off at a corner with several England players in poor positions.
Until Grealish, Foden, Rice, Bellingham or someone is given licence to try to command the middle of the park, we will continue to rely on going the distance and you know what comes next !
Heartbreak and tears.
I am sure Southgate recognises that we need to adapt our forward play and I am sure we'll see the benefits next season.
For instance how about Shaw taking one? Arguably one of the players of the tournament just scored a goal and brimming with confidence?
Anyway, it's pens and a lottery so there's no real right or wrong. I'm just trying to think how I would feel if I'd hardly kicked a ball all tournament and he'd asked me to come in cold and take a pen in the biggest game of our time.
We must also remember both of them were booked in the second half meaning we should have played through them drawing fouls and exploiting getting one of them a second booking and sent off.
We did the opposite