Rashford did everything right with his penalty and missed by less than 4 inches. Saka's not so good but he stood up to be counted. Good save by the keeper for the other one. The subs were correct, you need penalty takers on the pitch. The two that came on were not on there to do much other than take a penalty. Anyone can miss or have a penalty saved. The European champions missed 2 of theirs. Tactically we were good for the first 30 minutes then Italians were able to exploit our setup. 2nd half we were in danger of having a new arse torn for us, they were that dominant. By anyone's measure we had a very successful Euros, only one team had better. Fine margins between success and failure but still a great achievement to finish as runners up to a better team.
The only criticism I have of the players was the taking off the medals as soon as they were put on. Looked a bit childish to me.
Rashford took one against Colombia, so in my opinion he had to take one against Italy. Pickford took the 5th one against Switzerland in the nations league, but was demoted to number 6 on the list this time around. Only person in my social circle whose getting criticism is Southgate for putting Saka up 5th.
Plenty of us think it was incorrect to put such a young player in that position. Especially, with that information that Grealish asked to take one etc.
I believe good people of Charlton Life we may not do well at the WC
But with the rub of the green will win the next Euro's in 2024 with Bellingham, Rice, Foden, James, Maguire, TAA, Chilwell (The brilliant Luke Shaw will be nearly 29 and 15 stone by then!) and a new 18 year old talent yet to be named. A.Trialist.
Let's also hope by 2024 there is no hiding place for pond life. Constructive criticism and subjective views *are the heartbeat of a society but the cowardly hate has to stop and be eradicated.
* I have been guilty of retaliation on CL but I'm a work in progress.
My shit theory based on my own fuckedupness is that I’d love to have taken a penalty and always wanted to in matches I played throughout my life (prolly missed 1 in 20 in my pathetic footballing career). The whole sickness and pressure thing is something I’d thrive on and would also prefer to be taking it down the Italian end to fcuk them up . I think I say this because my addiction is gambling and I love the thrill of it and the sickness of winning or losing and have no fear of the losing . So next penalty shootout we go for our players who have a gambling problem and they’d smash em all home for fun 🥴
Lots of people digging out Southgate for bringing on two penalty takers but that's hardly revolutionary, seen it happen many times. Netherlands even brought Krul on once with a minute to go. It doesn't help that they both missed and was also a bit shambolic that they made the change when Italy had a corner.
Rashford - woefully out of form for club and country. Hardly kicked a ball in the tournament. Bring him on completely cold to take a pen in the biggest game this country has ever seen for 50 odd years.
I think if Gareth had punched all that into his calculator it wouldn't of spat out the answer he was looking for.
Rashford has confirmed this morning that he wasn't in the right frame of mind before taking it. And who can blame him.
If I've got one complaint at Southgate, and they are few, it's reading the room in some match situations. I'm still amazed with how he let the latter stages of that game pan out.
They were pre-planned pen takers. If Rashford wasn’t in the right frame of mind then he should of said something. I’m sure Southgate would of checked with his pen takers before they took them they were still okay to take one? It’s what he was doing when he was walking around the huddle is presume. Or is Rashford ‘wasn’t in the right frame of mind’ in hindsight?
Exactly, can't really say he wasn't in the right frame of mind as if his penalty is a few inches the other way he scores right inside the post and everyone would be saying what a great pen it was.
Can see the method behind Southgate's madness, practice penalties in training and then pick the five best takers.
Problem is that training wont ever be able to replicate live match conditions
But I hope to god that when he was in that huddle, he turned around to the five takers and asked them if they still felt confident enough to be amongst the first five or whether they wanted someone else to take their place, reminding them that there was no shame in not wanting to be amongst the first five.
Trouble is, even those players would have known that they'd have been taking a penalty regardless had it gone far enough so equally thought that they may as well have gotten the responsibility out the way, rather than letting the nerves eat at them and end up in an even worse state.
Of course, we'll never know the real truth as Southgate has rightfully protected them from it all.
Reading the reaction from around Europe on Reddit, they are all asking why we would bring on substitutions cold to take penalties. Also asking why we would give the decisive penalty to a nineteen-year-old. So even the neutrals are calling out those decisions.
Clearly Southgate has chosen the 'best' penalty takers on the training ground, but taking a penalty in a knockout tournament doesn't seem to be about technique so much as nerve and to a certain extent, form. I'm not sure the question should be: is he a good technical penalty taker? ... So much as, does this player have the state of mind to go and smash it in?
As Peter Crouch said on his podcast recently, it's rare a player will miss a penalty on the training ground. But stepping up in a big match to take one is a completely different proposition, and it's 90% strength of mind.
A lot of good lessons to be learned from that match. I think (and hope) GS is smart enough to learn them. But I did think the early goal and the way we sat back was too similar to Croatia, and we changed it too little and too late again.
Still, I was just happy for us to be in a final, to be honest.
The thing that bothers me is that why Southgate didn't know that in the first place?! You know it, i know it, half of Europe you're saying know it but not the England manager.
I woke up at 4am and watched the second half, extra time and the penalty shootout. Was sad that England lost.
Not just half Europe were questioning Southgate's decision making... All the comments I saw on Chinese social media and heard at my workplace were similar. Many criticised Southgate for being way too negative besides the apparently wrong penalty takers selection. I know my opinions will be unpopular on here having read this thread but... why after Croatia 2018, would you still do the same ie. sit so deep having scored early? You think a one goal lead would be enough to win the game against a side like Italy? Or were you just putting all your hope in a penalty shootout?(which is erm.. cowardly in my opinion because if you lose on penalty it’s down to bad luck and you get away with it.) Italian players are physically much bigger and stronger so defending a one goal lead against them is extremely difficult. You are not a Sam Allardyce type of team (cue Bolton) so you can’t just retreat to your own half and keep defending in the hope that luck will go your way - you earn your luck. With the way you played in the second half it was simply a matter of time you conceded.
Having said the above, I must point out that I really like this team of players. Rice was absolutely incredible especially in the final. Sterling changed my old impressions of him. I think he was one of the most hardworking players in the team. Shaw has become my new favourite England player - I liked him when he was in Southampton and it’s truly an inspiration that after having a potentially career-destroying injury he has not only fully recovered but gone on to be one of the best left-backs in Europe - hope that’s not an exaggeration. (And Mourinho would you shut up? So pathetic.) Mount and Foden caught my eye in the first game - sadly Mount was not as impressive in the latter stage of the tournament while Foden couldn’t play due to injury but these two will be the ones that I look forward to watching in WC 2022. Last but not least, Pickford - I happened to have watched his Premier League debut back in 2016 - it was a 1-4 loss to Spurs. I was thinking Sunderland were really brave to play such a young goalkeeper in league games. Over five years later now he’s England’s No.1 keeper and the saves he made in games against Denmark and Italy were superb!! The Italian keeper saved three relatively easy pens while Pickford saved two difficult ones. He would have been the national hero if Rashford and co’s pens had gone in. 👏👏👏
I think of you as one of us Jessie. You should refer to England as 'we' and 'our' rather than 'you' and 'your' (just as you might refer to Charlton). If 'we' should ever play China, then you may of course (temporarily) refer to 'us' as 'you'.
Rashford took one against Colombia, so in my opinion he had to take one against Italy. Pickford took the 5th one against Switzerland in the nations league, but was demoted to number 6 on the list this time around. Only person in my social circle whose getting criticism is Southgate for putting Saka up 5th.
Plenty of us think it was incorrect to put such a young player in that position. Especially, with that information that Grealish asked to take one etc.
The fact we even got to pens is frustrating me
I mentioned previously, Southgate knows better than anyone the perils of a penalty shootout and their after effects. He had the tools on the bench and the systems available to give it a real go during the latter end of the game.
If he'd gone for it and we lost he then had the ace up his sleeve of being able to say 'ive been through a shootout at this level. I know what an effect it can have if it doesn't work out I just thought I'd give it everything we've got to try and prevent it from happening again' I for one wouldn't have argued with that.
Rashford took one against Colombia, so in my opinion he had to take one against Italy. Pickford took the 5th one against Switzerland in the nations league, but was demoted to number 6 on the list this time around. Only person in my social circle whose getting criticism is Southgate for putting Saka up 5th.
Plenty of us think it was incorrect to put such a young player in that position. Especially, with that information that Grealish asked to take one etc.
The fact we even got to pens is frustrating me
I mentioned previously, Southgate knows better than anyone the perils of a penalty shootout and their after effects. He had the tools on the bench and the systems available to give it a real go during the latter end of the game.
If he'd gone for it and we lost he then had the ace up his sleeve of being able to say 'ive been through a shootout at this level. I know what an effect it can have if it doesn't work out I just thought I'd give it everything we've got to try and prevent it from happening again' I for one wouldn't have argued with that.
He did go for it we brought on two attacking players for a defensive midfielder and a full back when the opposition had a corner near the end of extra time 🙄
You can say Rashford was only inches away from scoring his penalty, but clearly you see him slice the ball when he takes it.
Throughout the second half of the season he's been out of form and during the tournament he's shown during games that he's lost his confidence. I'm sure during training he's a fantastic players but clearly it's not translating to games and maybe they should have taken that on board when choosing takers.
Penalties aren't just about technique. They're about finding players that will be able to cope with the pressure and nerves. Experience is always key.
Rashford did everything right with his penalty and missed by less than 4 inches. Saka's not so good but he stood up to be counted. Good save by the keeper for the other one. The subs were correct, you need penalty takers on the pitch. The two that came on were not on there to do much other than take a penalty. Anyone can miss or have a penalty saved. The European champions missed 2 of theirs. Tactically we were good for the first 30 minutes then Italians were able to exploit our setup. 2nd half we were in danger of having a new arse torn for us, they were that dominant. By anyone's measure we had a very successful Euros, only one team had better. Fine margins between success and failure but still a great achievement to finish as runners up to a better team.
The only criticism I have of the players was the taking off the medals as soon as they were put on. Looked a bit childish to me.
his stupid stuttering run up is ridiculous - he virtually stood still on the spot by the ball. Pick your spot, run up and hit it crisp and clean - it the keeper guesses the right way and saves it then fair play
if he practiced like that in training then I'd have hoped someone would've pulled him up on it
Maguire and Bonucci rather showed up many of the more skilful players with their penalties, both smacked at maximum pace into the top corner. Great technique and courage to do that
Rashford did everything right with his penalty and missed by less than 4 inches. Saka's not so good but he stood up to be counted. Good save by the keeper for the other one. The subs were correct, you need penalty takers on the pitch. The two that came on were not on there to do much other than take a penalty. Anyone can miss or have a penalty saved. The European champions missed 2 of theirs. Tactically we were good for the first 30 minutes then Italians were able to exploit our setup. 2nd half we were in danger of having a new arse torn for us, they were that dominant. By anyone's measure we had a very successful Euros, only one team had better. Fine margins between success and failure but still a great achievement to finish as runners up to a better team.
The only criticism I have of the players was the taking off the medals as soon as they were put on. Looked a bit childish to me.
I thought it sent out the message that they didn't want that medal and were going to try to get a better one next year. That is how it spoke to me and I liked it. We will all see the same thing from a different angle.
Rashford did everything right with his penalty and missed by less than 4 inches. Saka's not so good but he stood up to be counted. Good save by the keeper for the other one. The subs were correct, you need penalty takers on the pitch. The two that came on were not on there to do much other than take a penalty. Anyone can miss or have a penalty saved. The European champions missed 2 of theirs. Tactically we were good for the first 30 minutes then Italians were able to exploit our setup. 2nd half we were in danger of having a new arse torn for us, they were that dominant. By anyone's measure we had a very successful Euros, only one team had better. Fine margins between success and failure but still a great achievement to finish as runners up to a better team.
The only criticism I have of the players was the taking off the medals as soon as they were put on. Looked a bit childish to me.
his stupid stuttering run up is ridiculous - he virtually stood still on the spot by the ball. Pick your spot, run up and hit it crisp and clean - it the keeper guesses the right way and saves it then fair play
if he practiced like that in training then I'd have hoped someone would've pulled him up on it
Like Lyle Taylor who has a 100% record with that sort of penalty.
Rather than questioning Southgate's choice of penalty takers (which he's already explained) we should probably be questioning how Sterling stayed on. He had a poor game, and the only reason for keeping him on (in my opinion) was surely if he was lined up to be one of the 5 penalty takers.
The fact he then didn't take one certainly leads me to question why the fuck wasn't he subbed off for Rashford or Sancho earlier?
Lyle Taylor hasn’t taken a pen in front of 60,000 passionate home fans in the cauldron that is Wembley, with the expectations of a nation on his shoulders, starved of a major trophy for 55 years 😉
"The most frustrating thing about England on Sunday was the complete lack of counter-attacking when 1-0 up. In 65mins ahead, England had only two attempts - both headers at set-pieces from centre-backs. They made being 1-0 up seem like a burden.
I'd like to think that as these young players mature and develop Southgate will take the reigns off a little bit. Think we have the pace, energy and technical ability to be a side that can overwhelm teams in the future, without having to sit back so much.
Saka travelled light and when interviewed 3 weeks ago only seemed to know about the last WC. By the time he walked up for that 5th penalty he had so much heavy Baggage which had been dumped on him by the media: biggest game for 55 years - we lose on Penalities that I'm surprised that "Pressure is Privilege" Jack Grealish wasn't given the 5th penalty as he was keen to have that Honour.
I would need to see the stats on how long players have been on the field before scoring or missing in penalty shoot outs. Not convinced that's relevent.
Rashford and Sancho missed. Doesn't sound Rashford was in the right frame of mind according to his statement and his confidence was low. Sancho isn't a deep thinker like Marcus so harder to judge and sometimes it's just the keeper go the right way and maybe Sancho style could be read ?
If we think Penalities are a lottery then we will never beat this psychological barrier.
Lots of people digging out Southgate for bringing on two penalty takers but that's hardly revolutionary, seen it happen many times. Netherlands even brought Krul on once with a minute to go. It doesn't help that they both missed and was also a bit shambolic that they made the change when Italy had a corner.
Rashford - woefully out of form for club and country. Hardly kicked a ball in the tournament. Bring him on completely cold to take a pen in the biggest game this country has ever seen for 50 odd years.
I think if Gareth had punched all that into his calculator it wouldn't of spat out the answer he was looking for.
Rashford has confirmed this morning that he wasn't in the right frame of mind before taking it. And who can blame him.
If I've got one complaint at Southgate, and they are few, it's reading the room in some match situations. I'm still amazed with how he let the latter stages of that game pan out.
They were pre-planned pen takers. If Rashford wasn’t in the right frame of mind then he should of said something. I’m sure Southgate would of checked with his pen takers before they took them they were still okay to take one? It’s what he was doing when he was walking around the huddle is presume. Or is Rashford ‘wasn’t in the right frame of mind’ in hindsight?
I agree, or even earlier where we were so determined to get him on that we brought him on at right back. If he really wasn't feeling in the right frame of mind then he could have said something then. I get the feeling his wrong frame of mind started on the walk to the penalty spot, which isn't unusual. Often it takes the moment coming to judge how you'll feel in the moment.
Rashford did everything right with his penalty and missed by less than 4 inches. Saka's not so good but he stood up to be counted. Good save by the keeper for the other one. The subs were correct, you need penalty takers on the pitch. The two that came on were not on there to do much other than take a penalty. Anyone can miss or have a penalty saved. The European champions missed 2 of theirs. Tactically we were good for the first 30 minutes then Italians were able to exploit our setup. 2nd half we were in danger of having a new arse torn for us, they were that dominant. By anyone's measure we had a very successful Euros, only one team had better. Fine margins between success and failure but still a great achievement to finish as runners up to a better team.
The only criticism I have of the players was the taking off the medals as soon as they were put on. Looked a bit childish to me.
his stupid stuttering run up is ridiculous - he virtually stood still on the spot by the ball. Pick your spot, run up and hit it crisp and clean - it the keeper guesses the right way and saves it then fair play
if he practiced like that in training then I'd have hoped someone would've pulled him up on it
Like Lyle Taylor who has a 100% record with that sort of penalty.
Reading the reaction from around Europe on Reddit, they are all asking why we would bring on substitutions cold to take penalties. Also asking why we would give the decisive penalty to a nineteen-year-old. So even the neutrals are calling out those decisions.
Clearly Southgate has chosen the 'best' penalty takers on the training ground, but taking a penalty in a knockout tournament doesn't seem to be about technique so much as nerve and to a certain extent, form. I'm not sure the question should be: is he a good technical penalty taker? ... So much as, does this player have the state of mind to go and smash it in?
As Peter Crouch said on his podcast recently, it's rare a player will miss a penalty on the training ground. But stepping up in a big match to take one is a completely different proposition, and it's 90% strength of mind.
A lot of good lessons to be learned from that match. I think (and hope) GS is smart enough to learn them. But I did think the early goal and the way we sat back was too similar to Croatia, and we changed it too little and too late again.
Still, I was just happy for us to be in a final, to be honest.
The thing that bothers me is that why Southgate didn't know that in the first place?! You know it, i know it, half of Europe you're saying know it but not the England manager.
I woke up at 4am and watched the second half, extra time and the penalty shootout. Was sad that England lost.
Not just half Europe were questioning Southgate's decision making... All the comments I saw on Chinese social media and heard at my workplace were similar. Many criticised Southgate for being way too negative besides the apparently wrong penalty takers selection. I know my opinions will be unpopular on here having read this thread but... why after Croatia 2018, would you still do the same ie. sit so deep having scored early? You think a one goal lead would be enough to win the game against a side like Italy? Or were you just putting all your hope in a penalty shootout?(which is erm.. cowardly in my opinion because if you lose on penalty it’s down to bad luck and you get away with it.) Italian players are physically much bigger and stronger so defending a one goal lead against them is extremely difficult. You are not a Sam Allardyce type of team (cue Bolton) so you can’t just retreat to your own half and keep defending in the hope that luck will go your way - you earn your luck. With the way you played in the second half it was simply a matter of time you conceded.
Having said the above, I must point out that I really like this team of players. Rice was absolutely incredible especially in the final. Sterling changed my old impressions of him. I think he was one of the most hardworking players in the team. Shaw has become my new favourite England player - I liked him when he was in Southampton and it’s truly an inspiration that after having a potentially career-destroying injury he has not only fully recovered but gone on to be one of the best left-backs in Europe - hope that’s not an exaggeration. (And Mourinho would you shut up? So pathetic.) Mount and Foden caught my eye in the first game - sadly Mount was not as impressive in the latter stage of the tournament while Foden couldn’t play due to injury but these two will be the ones that I look forward to watching in WC 2022. Last but not least, Pickford - I happened to have watched his Premier League debut back in 2016 - it was a 1-4 loss to Spurs. I was thinking Sunderland were really brave to play such a young goalkeeper in league games. Over five years later now he’s England’s No.1 keeper and the saves he made in games against Denmark and Italy were superb!! The Italian keeper saved three relatively easy pens while Pickford saved two difficult ones. He would have been the national hero if Rashford and co’s pens had gone in. 👏👏👏
I think of you as one of us Jessie. You should refer to England as 'we' and 'our' rather than 'you' and 'your' (just as you might refer to Charlton). If 'we' should ever play China, then you may of course (temporarily) refer to 'us' as 'you'.
Thank you Compared to the 2000's and early 2010's, the England team has brought me much more excitement and joy in recent years. I still remember my friend at school and I both cried when England lost to Brazil in 2002😆 - I was only a teenager then. Nowadays I don't get THAT emotional watching England but I had tears in my eyes the moment I saw the news that England beat Colombia on penalty in 2018 and also yesterday watching clips of poor little Saka crying after the defeat...
What frustrated me is that from about 80 minutes onward, Southgate was playing for pens. He could have brought on Sancho and Rashford earlier in ET and let them at least run at Italy, see if we could stretch them. We played for the pens, made the subs just to take pens, and ultimately paid the price for it.
Rashford did everything right with his penalty and missed by less than 4 inches. Saka's not so good but he stood up to be counted. Good save by the keeper for the other one. The subs were correct, you need penalty takers on the pitch. The two that came on were not on there to do much other than take a penalty. Anyone can miss or have a penalty saved. The European champions missed 2 of theirs. Tactically we were good for the first 30 minutes then Italians were able to exploit our setup. 2nd half we were in danger of having a new arse torn for us, they were that dominant. By anyone's measure we had a very successful Euros, only one team had better. Fine margins between success and failure but still a great achievement to finish as runners up to a better team.
The only criticism I have of the players was the taking off the medals as soon as they were put on. Looked a bit childish to me.
his stupid stuttering run up is ridiculous - he virtually stood still on the spot by the ball. Pick your spot, run up and hit it crisp and clean - it the keeper guesses the right way and saves it then fair play
if he practiced like that in training then I'd have hoped someone would've pulled him up on it
Like Lyle Taylor who has a 100% record with that sort of penalty.
No Taylor walks up and hits it. He doesn't do the triple jump in the lead up to it.
Comments
The subs were correct, you need penalty takers on the pitch. The two that came on were not on there to do much other than take a penalty.
Anyone can miss or have a penalty saved. The European champions missed 2 of theirs.
Tactically we were good for the first 30 minutes then Italians were able to exploit our setup. 2nd half we were in danger of having a new arse torn for us, they were that dominant.
By anyone's measure we had a very successful Euros, only one team had better.
Fine margins between success and failure but still a great achievement to finish as runners up to a better team.
The only criticism I have of the players was the taking off the medals as soon as they were put on. Looked a bit childish to me.
Plenty of us think it was incorrect to put such a young player in that position. Especially, with that information that Grealish asked to take one etc.
But with the rub of the green will win the next Euro's in 2024 with Bellingham, Rice, Foden, James, Maguire, TAA, Chilwell (The brilliant Luke Shaw will be nearly 29 and 15 stone by then!) and a new 18 year old talent yet to be named.
Let's also hope by 2024 there is no hiding place for pond life. Constructive criticism and subjective views *are the heartbeat of a society but the cowardly hate has to stop and be eradicated.
* I have been guilty of retaliation on CL but I'm a work in progress.
The whole sickness and pressure thing is something I’d thrive on and would also prefer to be taking it down the Italian end to fcuk them up .
I think I say this because my addiction is gambling and I love the thrill of it and the sickness of winning or losing and have no fear of the losing .
So next penalty shootout we go for our players who have a gambling problem and they’d smash em all home for fun 🥴
Problem is that training wont ever be able to replicate live match conditions
But I hope to god that when he was in that huddle, he turned around to the five takers and asked them if they still felt confident enough to be amongst the first five or whether they wanted someone else to take their place, reminding them that there was no shame in not wanting to be amongst the first five.
Trouble is, even those players would have known that they'd have been taking a penalty regardless had it gone far enough so equally thought that they may as well have gotten the responsibility out the way, rather than letting the nerves eat at them and end up in an even worse state.
Of course, we'll never know the real truth as Southgate has rightfully protected them from it all.
I mentioned previously, Southgate knows better than anyone the perils of a penalty shootout and their after effects.
He had the tools on the bench and the systems available to give it a real go during the latter end of the game.
If he'd gone for it and we lost he then had the ace up his sleeve of being able to say 'ive been through a shootout at this level. I know what an effect it can have if it doesn't work out I just thought I'd give it everything we've got to try and prevent it from happening again'
I for one wouldn't have argued with that.
Throughout the second half of the season he's been out of form and during the tournament he's shown during games that he's lost his confidence. I'm sure during training he's a fantastic players but clearly it's not translating to games and maybe they should have taken that on board when choosing takers.
Penalties aren't just about technique. They're about finding players that will be able to cope with the pressure and nerves. Experience is always key.
if he practiced like that in training then I'd have hoped someone would've pulled him up on it
In a bid to lighten the mood somewhat
The fact he then didn't take one certainly leads me to question why the fuck wasn't he subbed off for Rashford or Sancho earlier?
In 65mins ahead, England had only two attempts - both headers at set-pieces from centre-backs. They made being 1-0 up seem like a burden.
By the time he walked up for that 5th penalty he had so much heavy Baggage which had been dumped on him by the media: biggest game for 55 years - we lose on Penalities that I'm surprised that "Pressure is Privilege" Jack Grealish wasn't given the 5th penalty as he was keen to have that Honour.
I would need to see the stats on how long players have been on the field before scoring or missing in penalty shoot outs. Not convinced that's relevent.
Rashford and Sancho missed. Doesn't sound Rashford was in the right frame of mind according to his statement and his confidence was low. Sancho isn't a deep thinker like Marcus so harder to judge and sometimes it's just the keeper go the right way and maybe Sancho style could be read ?
If we think Penalities are a lottery then we will never beat this psychological barrier.
- overall young players score more often than older players (less scars, less fear?)
- players miss their penalty more often if they have played a full 120 minutes and are fatigued
My quick takeaway
But given that only 62% of players score in “must score” scenarios, we were always playing behind the eight ball if it went to sudden death.
I tell you who I would’ve been confident of smashing that fifth penalty into the net. Pickford.