It's funny that some of the 70's icons are rightly villified but others seem to have been given a complete free pass. Quite how Bowie, Jagger and Page dodged a bullet over their (alleged) Lori Mattix affairs is a bit of mystery.
I think the alleged part is the key. Only Page seems to have some confirmation. The others two seem very speculative with a lot of conflicting stories.
It's funny that some of the 70's icons are rightly villified but others seem to have been given a complete free pass. Quite how Bowie, Jagger and Page dodged a bullet over their (alleged) Lori Mattix affairs is a bit of mystery.
I think the alleged part is the key. Only Page seems to have some confirmation. The others two seem very speculative with a lot of conflicting stories.
It's a shame my wife's 'uncle' (really her first cousin once removed) isn't around any more. He was Led Zeppelin's manager and must have had one or two interesting stories to tell.
It's funny that some of the 70's icons are rightly villified but others seem to have been given a complete free pass. Quite how Bowie, Jagger and Page dodged a bullet over their (alleged) Lori Mattix affairs is a bit of mystery.
I still struggle to understand how Bill Wyman never got more condemnation for his interest/ relationship with the thirteen year old child Mandy Smith.
It's funny that some of the 70's icons are rightly villified but others seem to have been given a complete free pass. Quite how Bowie, Jagger and Page dodged a bullet over their (alleged) Lori Mattix affairs is a bit of mystery.
I think the alleged part is the key. Only Page seems to have some confirmation. The others two seem very speculative with a lot of conflicting stories.
It's a shame my wife's 'uncle' (really her first cousin once removed) isn't around any more. He was Led Zeppelin's manager and must have had one or two interesting stories to tell.
It's funny that some of the 70's icons are rightly villified but others seem to have been given a complete free pass. Quite how Bowie, Jagger and Page dodged a bullet over their (alleged) Lori Mattix affairs is a bit of mystery.
I think the alleged part is the key. Only Page seems to have some confirmation. The others two seem very speculative with a lot of conflicting stories.
It's a shame my wife's 'uncle' (really her first cousin once removed) isn't around any more. He was Led Zeppelin's manager and must have had one or two interesting stories to tell.
Peter Grant?
That's right. The way she tells it he used to turn up to her primary school birthday parties in his Rolls Royce, dripping in gold and wearing full length fur coats. An absolute bear of a man.
It's funny that some of the 70's icons are rightly villified but others seem to have been given a complete free pass. Quite how Bowie, Jagger and Page dodged a bullet over their (alleged) Lori Mattix affairs is a bit of mystery.
I think the alleged part is the key. Only Page seems to have some confirmation. The others two seem very speculative with a lot of conflicting stories.
It's a shame my wife's 'uncle' (really her first cousin once removed) isn't around any more. He was Led Zeppelin's manager and must have had one or two interesting stories to tell.
Peter Grant?
That's right. The way she tells it he used to turn up to her primary school birthday parties in his Rolls Royce, dripping in gold and wearing full length fur coats. An absolute bear of a man.
Just because someone does something bad, not sure that means you have to start disliking their music. If you like a song, you like a song.
Torn on this one. Mrs AUN was a big fan of LostProphets whose singer, Ian Watkins, was sent down for plotting to rape a baby. They had a couple of decent tunes but I can’t bring myself to listen to them anymore. However back in the 90s I was a huge fan of R Kelly who turned out to be a bit of a sexual deviant too. When no ones around I still listen to some of his songs. It really is a conundrum.
My Bestie worked on Watkins case. You have no idea how despicable that man is. A different level.
As for EC, never liked him or his music. Had no idea he was racist too. Tosser.
It's funny that some of the 70's icons are rightly villified but others seem to have been given a complete free pass. Quite how Bowie, Jagger and Page dodged a bullet over their (alleged) Lori Mattix affairs is a bit of mystery.
I think the alleged part is the key. Only Page seems to have some confirmation. The others two seem very speculative with a lot of conflicting stories.
It's a shame my wife's 'uncle' (really her first cousin once removed) isn't around any more. He was Led Zeppelin's manager and must have had one or two interesting stories to tell.
Peter Grant?
That's right. The way she tells it he used to turn up to her primary school birthday parties in his Rolls Royce, dripping in gold and wearing full length fur coats. An absolute bear of a man.
Seems amazing he's played with and alongside so many influential black artists, who appear to love performing with him.
Still said what he said and has never denied or retracted it
Not quite true. He has apologised for the original racist rant which was in support of enoch powell and stopping immigration. Like many of his era he was a product of his age and background and whilst a great guitarist possibly not the sharpest knife in the box. He maintained his friendship with most of the black US blues guitarists long after the rant and has also undertaken community work in Antigua with the Crossroads project to rehabilitate people dependent on drugs. The debate on who is or was the best rock guitarist will carry on with Clapton, Beck, Page, Hendrix etc. All in the frame, but I will go along with Hendrix's view when asked at the Isle of White festival what it felt like to be the greatest guitarist of all time. His response was "why dont you go and ask him" and pointed over to the lead guitarist of Taste, who had just finished their set.
Seems amazing he's played with and alongside so many influential black artists, who appear to love performing with him.
Still said what he said and has never denied or retracted it
Not quite true. He has apologised for the original racist rant which was in support of enoch powell and stopping immigration. Like many of his era he was a product of his age and background and whilst a great guitarist possibly not the sharpest knife in the box. He maintained his friendship with most of the black US blues guitarists long after the rant and has also undertaken community work in Antigua with the Crossroads project to rehabilitate people dependent on drugs. The debate on who is or was the best rock guitarist will carry on with Clapton, Beck, Page, Hendrix etc. All in the frame, but I will go along with Hendrix's view when asked at the Isle of White festival what it felt like to be the greatest guitarist of all time. His response was "why dont you go and ask him" and pointed over to the lead guitarist of Taste, who had just finished their set.
Gallagher would certainly be in the argument for the best.
On a slight tangent, Patti Boyd said in her autobiography that Clapton once turned up at her door holding a stash of heroin. He proceeded to profess his undying love for her, said he could no longer deny his feelings and demanded that she go away with him right then or he would be "forced" to find solace in heroin. Patti says that at that time she was still very much in love with George Harrison and wanted to save her marriage so she refused Clapton's ultimatum. Clapton became a junkie. Later of course she conceded her marriage was over and gravitated to Clapton.
Seems amazing he's played with and alongside so many influential black artists, who appear to love performing with him.
Still said what he said and has never denied or retracted it
Not quite true. He has apologised for the original racist rant which was in support of enoch powell and stopping immigration. Like many of his era he was a product of his age and background and whilst a great guitarist possibly not the sharpest knife in the box. He maintained his friendship with most of the black US blues guitarists long after the rant and has also undertaken community work in Antigua with the Crossroads project to rehabilitate people dependent on drugs. The debate on who is or was the best rock guitarist will carry on with Clapton, Beck, Page, Hendrix etc. All in the frame, but I will go along with Hendrix's view when asked at the Isle of White festival what it felt like to be the greatest guitarist of all time. His response was "why dont you go and ask him" and pointed over to the lead guitarist of Taste, who had just finished their set.
"They were different times". "Some of his best friend are black".
Just because someone does something bad, not sure that means you have to start disliking their music. If you like a song, you like a song.
Really? Would you still listen to R Kelly songs then? Let’s imagine you did before, even if you didn’t.
I’ve stated a couple of times on here that I was a huge R Kelly fan back in the 90s, right from the start when it was R Kelly and Public Announcement. To clarify, a huge fan. Not only of his own output but if he produced for other artists I would buy their stuff, if he did a remix for someone else I would buy the 12”. To me, the man could do no wrong musically, he was a genius. Then news started leaking out...the underage and inappropriate relationship with Aaliyah, the ‘pissing sex tape’ allegations, how he’d hang out in a particular cafe near a school at hometime. Then of course the revelations in the Netflix documentary. Even today I read that he’s now being investigated for the sexual abuse of a 17 year old boy. He goes on trial next month which I’ll try and follow as closely as I can. As far as still listening to his music I have admitted that I still do, to me it’s still brilliant work but it’s getting to the point that I can’t with any clear conscience. I wish I could keep separating the man from the art but I don’t think I can anymore.
I'd cut Clapton some slack here, he has performed with all the great black players over the years. When I saw him in 91 in a Blues night at the Albert Hall he introduced Johnny Johnson as the greatest blues keyboard player ever, and there seemed to be some man love going on. The same night he took a backseat as Buddy Guy, Robert Cray and others came to the stage. If anything he seemed in awe of them.
Clapton was born in 1945 and for long periods of his young life he was completely out of it on booze and drugs, he was a complete and utter mess according to his own biography. Clapton admitted in a hard learned lesson that he had to place his sobriety before everything - including his own children - as without it, he didn't function as a human being, let alone be a father.
We all have the ability to change, as most of us have from those dark post war decades. Clapton has changed, I don't think we need a meaningless formal statement from him when actions speak louder than words.
He never retracted. See covered ends post further up where he continued to praise Powell
And Clapton couldn't understand what Joni was doing with a guitar
Drunkenness is an extremely poor excuse. Alcohol's greatest (and possibly worst) attribute is that it lowers our inhibitions. What it's not noted for doing is changing our thoughts. He might not have said it if he wasn't drunk, but those thoughts still came from somewhere. I find it very hard to believe they came from a bottle or a can.
He never retracted. See covered ends post further up where he continued to praise Powell
And Clapton couldn't understand what Joni was doing with a guitar
Drunkenness is an extremely poor excuse. Alcohol's greatest (and possibly worst) attribute is that it lowers our inhibitions. What it's not not noted for doing is changing our thoughts. He might not have said it if he wasn't drunk, but those thoughts still came from somewhere. I find it very hard to believe they came from a bottle or a can.
Bang on. It’s oft said if you want to find the truth talk to someone when they’re drunk.
I'd cut Clapton some slack here, he has performed with all the great black players over the years. When I saw him in 91 in a Blues night at the Albert Hall he introduced Johnny Johnson as the greatest blues keyboard player ever, and there seemed to be some man love going on. The same night he took a backseat as Buddy Guy, Robert Cray and others came to the stage. If anything he seemed in awe of them.
Clapton was born in 1945 and for long periods of his young life he was completely out of it on booze and drugs, he was a complete and utter mess according to his own biography. Clapton admitted in a hard learned lesson that he had to place his sobriety before everything - including his own children - as without it, he didn't function as a human being, let alone be a father.
We all have the ability to change, as most of us have from those dark post war decades. Clapton has changed, I don't think we need a meaningless formal statement from him when actions speak louder than words.
I don't think it would be meaningless to those people in the audience who were shocked and embarrassed at what they heard. I don't think it would be meaningless to people who had to put up with years of horrible racist comments like those that were legitimised by being uttered by him. I don't think it would be meaningless to people who might otherwise enjoy his music but who currently feel it is tainted by his past comments. And actually, I don't think it would be meaningless to Clapton if he genuinely has changed and if he could summon up the courage to explain and apologise. He has the power to put this in the past. Strange that he's never chosen to do so effectively.
Maybe actions do speak louder than words, but when your words are still debated as controversial nearly 50 years on, you know they were pretty bloody loud.
He never retracted. See covered ends post further up where he continued to praise Powell
And Clapton couldn't understand what Joni was doing with a guitar
Drunkenness is an extremely poor excuse. Alcohol's greatest (and possibly worst) attribute is that it lowers our inhibitions. What it's not not noted for doing is changing our thoughts. He might not have said it if he wasn't drunk, but those thoughts still came from somewhere. I find it very hard to believe they came from a bottle or a can.
Unsurprisingly I would agree with you on this. At the time Enoch Powell wasn't the only one spouting the viewpoint and it was not uncommon to hear it on the train into work and at work. I was at University nearly 50 years ago with people who spouted these views, which are rightly unacceptable today and even more people who did not spout the views, but their actions spoke loudly for them and their upbringing.
I agree that alcohol removes the filters on people's thoughts but it also blurs the edges of reality and quite often makes the last thing someone said to the drunk sound reasonable, rational and quotable. In other words it removes the filter on listening and speaking. At the time Clapton was in an almost permanent state of inebriation.
It was almost certainly likely that Clapton was under the influence of something in addition to the alcohol.
Clapton, as stated earlier, may not be the sharpest knife in the box and his stance on lockdown last year confirms that in my mind. However he is not the only one to be stupid from that era. Bowie, for example, was heard to utter that Britain could do with a fascist leader. Not all musicians are capable of intelligent thought and analysis of the world around us. They might be somebody's hero with lightening fret work, but that doesn't stop them from having feet of clay.
I am not woke enough to throw out every baby with the bath water and paint over or rewrite history, but I do believe that history must be studied and understood in the context of its time or the mistakes will be repeated.
He never retracted. See covered ends post further up where he continued to praise Powell
And Clapton couldn't understand what Joni was doing with a guitar
Drunkenness is an extremely poor excuse. Alcohol's greatest (and possibly worst) attribute is that it lowers our inhibitions. What it's not not noted for doing is changing our thoughts. He might not have said it if he wasn't drunk, but those thoughts still came from somewhere. I find it very hard to believe they came from a bottle or a can.
Unsurprisingly I would agree with you on this. At the time Enoch Powell wasn't the only one spouting the viewpoint and it was not uncommon to hear it on the train into work and at work. I was at University nearly 50 years ago with people who spouted these views, which are rightly unacceptable today and even more people who did not spout the views, but their actions spoke loudly for them and their upbringing.
I agree that alcohol removes the filters on people's thoughts but it also blurs the edges of reality and quite often makes the last thing someone said to the drunk sound reasonable, rational and quotable. In other words it removes the filter on listening and speaking. At the time Clapton was in an almost permanent state of inebriation.
It was almost certainly likely that Clapton was under the influence of something in addition to the alcohol.
Clapton, as stated earlier, may not be the sharpest knife in the box and his stance on lockdown last year confirms that in my mind. However he is not the only one to be stupid from that era. Bowie, for example, was heard to utter that Britain could do with a fascist leader. Not all musicians are capable of intelligent thought and analysis of the world around us. They might be somebody's hero with lightening fret work, but that doesn't stop them from having feet of clay.
I am not woke enough to throw out every baby with the bath water and paint over or rewrite history, but I do believe that history must be studied and understood in the context of its time or the mistakes will be repeated.
Apart from the silly "woke" comment nothing there I'd disagree with when I read it
Bowie also gave a nazi salute from an open top car at Victoria station.
Regardless, Clapton's remarks were considered racist and offensive to many AT THE TIME.
So taking it in the context of the time it was still racist so much so that It was Bowie's salute and Clapton's rant, IIRC, that kick started Rock against Racism so some good came of it.
Also IIRC while Bowie did also blame alcohol and other substances for what he said/did, he also actively disavowed it afterwards and took steps to move away from it... Which I don't believe is the case with Clapton.
He never retracted. See covered ends post further up where he continued to praise Powell
And Clapton couldn't understand what Joni was doing with a guitar
Drunkenness is an extremely poor excuse. Alcohol's greatest (and possibly worst) attribute is that it lowers our inhibitions. What it's not not noted for doing is changing our thoughts. He might not have said it if he wasn't drunk, but those thoughts still came from somewhere. I find it very hard to believe they came from a bottle or a can.
Unsurprisingly I would agree with you on this. At the time Enoch Powell wasn't the only one spouting the viewpoint and it was not uncommon to hear it on the train into work and at work. I was at University nearly 50 years ago with people who spouted these views, which are rightly unacceptable today and even more people who did not spout the views, but their actions spoke loudly for them and their upbringing.
I agree that alcohol removes the filters on people's thoughts but it also blurs the edges of reality and quite often makes the last thing someone said to the drunk sound reasonable, rational and quotable. In other words it removes the filter on listening and speaking. At the time Clapton was in an almost permanent state of inebriation.
It was almost certainly likely that Clapton was under the influence of something in addition to the alcohol.
Clapton, as stated earlier, may not be the sharpest knife in the box and his stance on lockdown last year confirms that in my mind. However he is not the only one to be stupid from that era. Bowie, for example, was heard to utter that Britain could do with a fascist leader. Not all musicians are capable of intelligent thought and analysis of the world around us. They might be somebody's hero with lightening fret work, but that doesn't stop them from having feet of clay.
I am not woke enough to throw out every baby with the bath water and paint over or rewrite history, but I do believe that history must be studied and understood in the context of its time or the mistakes will be repeated.
Apart from the silly "woke" comment nothing there I'd disagree with when I read it
Bowie also gave a nazi salute from an open top car at Victoria station.
Regardless, Clapton's remarks were considered racist and offensive to many AT THE TIME.
So taking it in the context of the time it was still racist so much so that It was Bowie's salute and Clapton's rant, IIRC, that kick started Rock against Racism so some good came of it.
Agreed. As for the "silly woke" comment, woke has become silly when it tries to eradicate history by believing that removing statues will right a wrong and trying to silence anyone who has a slightly different perspective on life is acceptable.
This, particularly when slavery is still prominent today throughout Asia, Africa and Europe not forgetting the Americas. The anti slavery league is still very active and needs our support to stop the modern day trafficking which is often linked to the drug trade.
Many of the people who support the no platforming of speakers and wish to rewrite history are beneficiaries of participation in the recreational drug trade.
I am anti a lot of things but try to understand that the biggest threats to the world: environment; racism; population growth all need to be seen from a perspective of realism.
Comments
I still struggle to understand how Bill Wyman never got more condemnation for his interest/ relationship with the thirteen year old child Mandy Smith.
You have no idea how despicable that man is.
A different level.
As for EC, never liked him or his music. Had no idea he was racist too. Tosser.
The debate on who is or was the best rock guitarist will carry on with Clapton, Beck, Page, Hendrix etc. All in the frame, but I will go along with Hendrix's view when asked at the Isle of White festival what it felt like to be the greatest guitarist of all time. His response was "why dont you go and ask him" and pointed over to the lead guitarist of Taste, who had just finished their set.
He never retracted. See covered ends post further up where he continued to praise Powell
And Clapton couldn't understand what Joni was doing with a guitar
He proceeded to profess his undying love for her, said he could no longer deny his feelings and demanded that she go away with him right then or he would be "forced" to find solace in heroin.
Patti says that at that time she was still very much in love with George Harrison and wanted to save her marriage so she refused Clapton's ultimatum.
Clapton became a junkie.
Later of course she conceded her marriage was over and gravitated to Clapton.
He must be a wrong 'un.
I’ve stated a couple of times on here that I was a huge R Kelly fan back in the 90s, right from the start when it was R Kelly and Public Announcement. To clarify, a huge fan. Not only of his own output but if he produced for other artists I would buy their stuff, if he did a remix for someone else I would buy the 12”. To me, the man could do no wrong musically, he was a genius. Then news started leaking out...the underage and inappropriate relationship with Aaliyah, the ‘pissing sex tape’ allegations, how he’d hang out in a particular cafe near a school at hometime. Then of course the revelations in the Netflix documentary. Even today I read that he’s now being investigated for the sexual abuse of a 17 year old boy. He goes on trial next month which I’ll try and follow as closely as I can. As far as still listening to his music I have admitted that I still do, to me it’s still brilliant work but it’s getting to the point that I can’t with any clear conscience. I wish I could keep separating the man from the art but I don’t think I can anymore.
Clapton was born in 1945 and for long periods of his young life he was completely out of it on booze and drugs, he was a complete and utter mess according to his own biography. Clapton admitted in a hard learned lesson that he had to place his sobriety before everything - including his own children - as without it, he didn't function as a human being, let alone be a father.
We all have the ability to change, as most of us have from those dark post war decades. Clapton has changed, I don't think we need a meaningless formal statement from him when actions speak louder than words.
He literally sat staring at Joni playing the guitar because he couldn't understand what she was doing.
If anything it was a compliment from a good musician to a great one.
Bang on. It’s oft said if you want to find the truth talk to someone when they’re drunk.
Maybe actions do speak louder than words, but when your words are still debated as controversial nearly 50 years on, you know they were pretty bloody loud.
I agree that alcohol removes the filters on people's thoughts but it also blurs the edges of reality and quite often makes the last thing someone said to the drunk sound reasonable, rational and quotable. In other words it removes the filter on listening and speaking. At the time Clapton was in an almost permanent state of inebriation.
It was almost certainly likely that Clapton was under the influence of something in addition to the alcohol.
Henry might choose not to read extract below since it is only reportage:
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/eric-clapton-racist-outburst/
Clapton, as stated earlier, may not be the sharpest knife in the box and his stance on lockdown last year confirms that in my mind. However he is not the only one to be stupid from that era. Bowie, for example, was heard to utter that Britain could do with a fascist leader. Not all musicians are capable of intelligent thought and analysis of the world around us. They might be somebody's hero with lightening fret work, but that doesn't stop them from having feet of clay.
I am not woke enough to throw out every baby with the bath water and paint over or rewrite history, but I do believe that history must be studied and understood in the context of its time or the mistakes will be repeated.
Bowie also gave a nazi salute from an open top car at Victoria station.
Regardless, Clapton's remarks were considered racist and offensive to many AT THE TIME.
So taking it in the context of the time it was still racist so much so that It was Bowie's salute and Clapton's rant, IIRC, that kick started Rock against Racism so some good came of it.
As for the "silly woke" comment, woke has become silly when it tries to eradicate history by believing that removing statues will right a wrong and trying to silence anyone who has a slightly different perspective on life is acceptable.
This, particularly when slavery is still prominent today throughout Asia, Africa and Europe not forgetting the Americas. The anti slavery league is still very active and needs our support to stop the modern day trafficking which is often linked to the drug trade.
Many of the people who support the no platforming of speakers and wish to rewrite history are beneficiaries of participation in the recreational drug trade.
I am anti a lot of things but try to understand that the biggest threats to the world: environment; racism; population growth all need to be seen from a perspective of realism.