Eric Clapton

24 Red

Chizz said:

I think he's an awful, despicable person.  But I can't help really liking some of his authentic rock and roll, iconic songs.  

And, although it's a struggle, if you like art for art's sake, it's ok to like it, and the work of Michael Jackson or Wagner or Rolf Harris.  But to understand art better, you need to know more about who created it.  That's the cognitive dissonance kicking in. 

Talking of cognitive dissonance, how many people sang the praises of Lee Bowyer despite his history of being a 'racist twat'? 

Scratchingvalleycat

thenewbie said:

Also IIRC while Bowie did also blame alcohol and other substances for what he said/did, he also actively disavowed it afterwards and took steps to move away from it... Which I don't believe is the case with Clapton.

If you read the article referenced above you will see that Clapton supported rock against racism which he, by his ill thought statements, helped bring into existence. 

Henry Irving

Woke has become another put done word/phrase to replace "PC gone mad" or "do gooder".

It is used to dismiss anything a person dislikes and covers almost any action or opinion so no longer has any meaning.

But back to Clapton. What he said was racist then and was seen as such then.  The suggestion from you was that words and actions should be seen in context of their time. Well at the time it was a racist enough to draw attention from the music press and others and launch an highly successful anti-Racism campaign.

That's not "woke", that's what happened.

Scratchingvalleycat

Henry
We agree so don't try to pick a fight over terminology. By your response you knew exactly what I meant and it wasn't PC gone mad or do gooder. It is a person who has awoken to a political belief that allows no challenge or rational argument.

Or are you confessing to this? If so, maybe running a museum isn't your true self, maybe we shall see the revisionist museum with St Roland at the heart of all displays!

raytreacy69

Henry Irving said:

Woke has become another put done word/phrase to replace "PC gone mad" or "do gooder".

It is used to dismiss anything a person dislikes and covers almost any action or opinion so no longer has any meaning.

But back to Clapton. What he said was racist then and was seen as such then.  The suggestion from you was that words and actions should be seen in context of their time. Well at the time it was a racist enough to draw attention from the music press and others and launch an highly successful anti-Racism campaign.

That's not "woke", that's what happened.

Henry - just be honest you just don't like Ec.I thought this thread was about his music and for me musically he is well up,there with the best and certainly as a guitarist 🎸
As a personality well maybe that's a different matter but he seems a 'reformed' character over recent years and the tragic death of his son must have been a life changing event.So you don't like him and that's your opinion but listen to some of his music and 461 Ocean Boulevard in particular -Let it grow and Please be with me.You might change your mind

Henry Irving

Scratchingvalleycat said:

Henry
We agree so don't try to pick a fight over terminology. By your response you knew exactly what I meant and it wasn't PC gone mad or do gooder. It is a person who has awoken to a political belief that allows no challenge or rational argument.

Or are you confessing to this? If so, maybe running a museum isn't your true self, maybe we shall see the revisionist museum with St Roland at the heart of all displays!

I think you're the one trying to pick a fight. See your "Henry, won't read this" remark and the snide dig about the museum which has nothing to do with Clapton's racism.

That's your definition of woke but as I said everyone has their own so it has become meaningless.

raytreacy69

Give it rest it's just boring now

Henry Irving

raytreacy69 said:

Henry Irving said:

Woke has become another put done word/phrase to replace "PC gone mad" or "do gooder".

It is used to dismiss anything a person dislikes and covers almost any action or opinion so no longer has any meaning.

But back to Clapton. What he said was racist then and was seen as such then.  The suggestion from you was that words and actions should be seen in context of their time. Well at the time it was a racist enough to draw attention from the music press and others and launch an highly successful anti-Racism campaign.

That's not "woke", that's what happened.

Henry - just be honest you just don't like Ec.I thought this thread was about his music and for me musically he is well up,there with the best and certainly as a guitarist 🎸
As a personality well maybe that's a different matter but he seems a 'reformed' character over recent years and the tragic death of his son must have been a life changing event.So you don't like him and that's your opinion but listen to some of his music and 461 Ocean Boulevard in particular -Let it grow and Please be with me.You might change your mind

No, I don't like him.

He's an unapologetic racist and sorry but this thread was started by a question about him as a person not as a musician. His views on Covid aren't very pleasant either and he lied about the side effects.

And please, don't assume that I've never listened to 461 Ocean Boulevard or the Beano album or the Disrali Gears.  Just not into guitar heroes and I find his voice bland.  Hendrix was a better and more importantly funkier guitarist,  the Wailers version of I shot the sheriff is 100 times better and Joni an infinitely better singer, songwriter, artist and human being, all in my humble opinion of course.

Scratchingvalleycat

raytreacy69 said:

Give it rest it's just boring now

More than happy to do so.

Henry Irving

raytreacy69 said:

Give it rest it's just boring now

Just how I feel after listening to Clapton's musak

mistrollingin62

Anyone on here remember those wonderful Sunday nights at the Black Prince in Bexley during the 1960's?

One summer Sunday in 1966 I was queing up with my mates to see Georgie Fame and the Blue Flames

Right in front of us waiting to go in was Eric wearing a purple velvet jacket and Levi's.

Not many people know that.

Wonderful live music back then, regulars included Zoot Money and his Big Roll Band who used to bring the house down, Geno Washington and the Ram Jam Band, Brian Auger, Long John Baldry, The Action, Jimmy James and the Vagabonds etc, etc.

Happy days

Stig

Henry Irving said:

raytreacy69 said:

Give it rest it's just boring now

Just how I feel after listening to Clapton's musak

Six-a-bag-of-nuts

mistrollingin62 said:

Anyone on here remember those wonderful Sunday nights at the Black Prince in Bexley during the 1960's?

One summer Sunday in 1966 I was queing up with my mates to see Georgie Fame and the Blue Flames

Right in front of us waiting to go in was Eric wearing a purple velvet jacket and Levi's.

Not many people know that.

Wonderful live music back then, regulars included Zoot Money and his Big Roll Band who used to bring the house down, Geno Washington and the Ram Jam Band, Brian Auger, Long John Baldry, The Action, Jimmy James and the Vagabonds etc, etc.

Happy days

Wow, lucky you.
Saw a pre-fame Roxy Music there, but I would loved to have seen Geno in his prime.

LawrieAbrahams

Stig said:

Henry Irving said:

He made an excuse that he was drunk.

He never retracted. See covered ends post further up where he continued to praise Powell

And Clapton couldn't understand what Joni was doing with a guitar

Drunkenness is an extremely poor excuse. Alcohol's greatest (and possibly worst) attribute is that it lowers our inhibitions. What it's not noted for doing is changing our thoughts. He might not have said it if he wasn't drunk, but those thoughts still came from somewhere. I find it very hard to believe they came from a bottle or a can. 

In vino veritas.

Six-a-bag-of-nuts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsTbQF6LRw4

thickandthin63

I know it can be difficult to seperate someone from what they do and what views they have,or are alleged to have,but I am only interested in what I pay to see.(Kiddy fiddlers  and rapists excepted).Bestie was a piss artist,Giggs might well have problems,Gazza bashed his mrs. up,I choose to remember the football.Clapton has made some poor comments,I choose to remember the music.Gary Linekar has made some dopey political comments(to me anyway)still the best Sports presenter around.Does what Richard Rufus has done with his post football life affect our memories of him on the pitch.

ozaddick

Landscaped a property of his in the south of France about 9 years ago. Didn't met him as we weren't allowed on site when he was home. Did find a guitar on a stand in the house one day, and I couldn't resist it and had a quick play on it. 
Lay down Sally is a favourite song of mine. 

thickandthin63

Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:

mistrollingin62 said:

Anyone on here remember those wonderful Sunday nights at the Black Prince in Bexley during the 1960's?

One summer Sunday in 1966 I was queing up with my mates to see Georgie Fame and the Blue Flames

Right in front of us waiting to go in was Eric wearing a purple velvet jacket and Levi's.

Not many people know that.

Wonderful live music back then, regulars included Zoot Money and his Big Roll Band who used to bring the house down, Geno Washington and the Ram Jam Band, Brian Auger, Long John Baldry, The Action, Jimmy James and the Vagabonds etc, etc.

Happy days

Wow, lucky you.
Saw a pre-fame Roxy Music there, but I would loved to have seen Geno in his prime.

Those were the days,when you could queue up and see top rate acts for very little money.My favourite was the 2 ks in Charlton Village,Albert Lee,Jimmy Page,Johnny Kid,Brian Poole ,Joe Brown and many others all graced that worn out assembly room stage.

MrWalker

ken from bexley

Good grief, I never thought Clapton's reputation was so despised by so many, Before his disgusting racial outburst, I thought he was a pioneer in the English  guitar blues scene, as for him not being ashamed of his racial outburst, which he will be tarnished with for all his career, he did express deep remorse in the documentary life in 12 bars, which charts his very unpleasant childhood, drink, drugs, love with Pattie, and tragic loss of his son, to me he seemed to put black blues players  as an inspiration, like BB King, Robert Johnston, Muddy etc. see; https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b0b95q4f/eric-clapton-life-in-12-bars.

 Yes I saw him live at the Albert  Hall, and the fire in his playing after the Cream days was rather tepid, but his work on the American tour prior to the Cream break up, was as good as any electric blues playing I have heard.
  As for the other guitarists mentioned, my hero's were not without there issues, some such as Jimi Page with the antics of Lori, and 'borrowing shall we say of blue's classic's riffs is again very questionable. 

As For Rory Gallagher, along with Jimi Hendrix and the quote Jimi was said to attribute to him, sadly even Rory's brother and manager  Donal, can find no source for that quote, all I will say is that I never heard or saw any live player, sound any better, and play with such dedication to the fans who admired him to this day, at the various festivals run to celebrate, in Ireland the UK and worldwide. And yes I saw him  at the Black Prince in Bexley, and even spoke to the man a few times, a more dedicated and humble  player I have yet to meet. I saw Taste and the RG band many times. He hated contrived, music, and all the bullshit of 'stardom' record companies, and marketing, he just would not play the 'game'. He was the first to credit his admiration of earlier blues players. I have never yet found somebody who has a bad word to say about the man, or his music,( except his record company, because he refused to release singles, and promotion, or adapt his dedication to blues, and his admiration to early blues players!
 But hey, I am sure there will be someone on Charlton Life who will oblige! ....