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Post-match thread: Oxford v Charlton | 14th Aug 2021
Comments
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Personally I don't mind how we play as long as it is effective. It might work if people played off him. I'd be looking to bring another a big man in and go long ball with crosses in from our wide players. If we are going to wait for Clare and Morgan to step up we might as well give up on the season. Dobson at the base of the midfield, I like.2
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‘A coup’ – rival League One boss reckons Charlton have landed a gem in Charlie Kirk
https://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/1091779661?-11197:833
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Hoping that mid week we could play something like this...MacGillivaryMatthews Innis Famewo Gunter
Dobson Clare
Washington DJ Kirk
Stockley1 -
True, what a difference a goal makes.soapboxsam said:The players score on the doors will always reflect the scoreline.
In the Championship we beat Leeds and Brentford at the Valley despite parking two buses for the majority of both games and both sides having so many shots at our goal. If just 2 of their shots out of 20+ efforts had gone in by Leeds or Brentford then Cafc players getting 7 or 7.5 for a rearguard defensive display becomes 5 and 5.5. The scoreline will always influence players scores even if it is bad misses by the opposition rather than great work by us.0 -
Swap DJ and Washington over and you have the best you can get at the moment..RedJohn said:Hoping that mid week we could play something like this...MacGillivaryMatthews Innis Famewo Gunter
Dobson Clare
Washington DJ Kirk
Stockley
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True, even a shot on target gets the blood flowing at the moment, but oh for a goal or two from open play...JamesSeed said:
True, what a difference a goal makes.soapboxsam said:The players score on the doors will always reflect the scoreline.
In the Championship we beat Leeds and Brentford at the Valley despite parking two buses for the majority of both games and both sides having so many shots at our goal. If just 2 of their shots out of 20+ efforts had gone in by Leeds or Brentford then Cafc players getting 7 or 7.5 for a rearguard defensive display becomes 5 and 5.5. The scoreline will always influence players scores even if it is bad misses by the opposition rather than great work by us. 1 -
I think we edged it on possession, or if not, it would have been close. At one point yesterday, about half way through the second half when we were 2-1 down, our keeper gave it to one of the centre backs who passed to the other centre back who gave it to a full back who gave it back to a centre back who gave to the other centre back who gave it back to the keeper……..who gave it back to a centre back who gave it to a full back who gave to a centre back who passed to a centre back who gave it to the keeper etc ……….This went on for about 90 seconds until one of the defenders lumped it forward for Stockley to be beaten in the air.Cafc43v3r said:
It's cause and effect though isn't it? Did we start the game yesterday by just banging it up to Stockley or did we start trying to play it on the floor?SantaClaus said:
Except at Charlton where our exciting plan is to bang it up to the big man and then hope it drops our way. It's like we've gone back to the 80's.Chunes said:
Exactly. There's a reason nobody plays this anymore. Football has moved on.Cafc43v3r said:Just a point, only 3 teams in the top 2 divisions played 442 yesterday and they all got hammered. Just saying.
I haven't seen all of yesterday's game, but going by the comments and what I have seen, we started trying to play. DJ didn't offer an outlet, we had 2 right footed players on the left and got over ran in the middle.
The less of the ball you have you end up going longer and longer, you lose confidence in your midfielders to be able to receive the ball in space etc it's happened to pretty much ever Charlton team I have ever seen. It happened in this system last season as well.
TLDR its a result of playing badly not the cause of it.13 -
Mametz said:
I think we edged it on possession, or if not, it would have been close. At one point yesterday, about half way through the second half when we were 2-1 down, our keeper gave it to one of the centre backs who passed to the other centre back who gave it to a full back who gave it back to a centre back who gave to the other centre back who gave it back to the keeper……..who gave it back to a centre back who gave it to a full back who gave to a centre back who passed to a centre back who gave it to the keeper etc ……….This went on for about 90 seconds until one of the defenders lumped it forward for Stockley to be beaten in the air.Cafc43v3r said:
It's cause and effect though isn't it? Did we start the game yesterday by just banging it up to Stockley or did we start trying to play it on the floor?SantaClaus said:
Except at Charlton where our exciting plan is to bang it up to the big man and then hope it drops our way. It's like we've gone back to the 80's.Chunes said:
Exactly. There's a reason nobody plays this anymore. Football has moved on.Cafc43v3r said:Just a point, only 3 teams in the top 2 divisions played 442 yesterday and they all got hammered. Just saying.
I haven't seen all of yesterday's game, but going by the comments and what I have seen, we started trying to play. DJ didn't offer an outlet, we had 2 right footed players on the left and got over ran in the middle.
The less of the ball you have you end up going longer and longer, you lose confidence in your midfielders to be able to receive the ball in space etc it's happened to pretty much ever Charlton team I have ever seen. It happened in this system last season as well.
TLDR its a result of playing badly not the cause of it.
So we had some consistent possession then, impressive 2 -
That’s an interesting stat and shows that 4-4-2 is dying further up the ladder. We are not in the top two divisions though, do you know how many teams in our division started with 4-4-2?Cafc43v3r said:Just a point, only 3 teams in the top 2 divisions played 442 yesterday and they all got hammered. Just saying.0 -
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1 and guess what....Todds_right_hook said:
That’s an interesting stat and shows that 4-4-2 is dying further up the ladder. We are not in the top two divisions though, do you know how many teams in our division started with 4-4-2?Cafc43v3r said:Just a point, only 3 teams in the top 2 divisions played 442 yesterday and they all got hammered. Just saying.
The team that played the nearest 4411 got beat as well.0 -
We are in League 1 and if we keep having our Central Striker isolated we will be here for a lot longer.
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Problem we’ve got is we play 4-4-2 tactics with a 4-3-3 formation.Cafc43v3r said:
1 and guess what....Todds_right_hook said:
That’s an interesting stat and shows that 4-4-2 is dying further up the ladder. We are not in the top two divisions though, do you know how many teams in our division started with 4-4-2?Cafc43v3r said:Just a point, only 3 teams in the top 2 divisions played 442 yesterday and they all got hammered. Just saying.
The team that played the nearest 4411 got beat as well.0 -
Fine points here Bazbazjonster said:Some fascinating differences of opinion surrounding Kirk's omission from the squad.
When someone loses a loved one you often hear the response "I know how they feel because.......". Well, no, you don't know how anyone feels or what they are going through in times of distress or loss; that's because we are all different and react differently. In essence, our personal interpretations of an 'event' are our own reality and therefore we respond differently. That is then manifested in our behaviour.
People are emotional creatures, we are driven and motivated by emotion, fact. Yes, we come to work everyday and are governed by rules, regulations, policies, procedures, processes, and they are what dictate how we operate in the workplace. However, because people are driven by emotion, if they are not emotionally in the right place they will lack said motivation, in turn, negatively impacting on their productivity.
Quite clearly, a decision was made on Kirk that was based on good emotional intelligence (EQ), listening skills, and man-management. The outcome being that he was not ready to be included.
Some 'managers', so often, are driven by the 'task'. The risk of becoming too task focused means that they can naturally (and often inadvertently) forget about the 'needs' of the individual and the team when it comes to executing that task. This type of manager is often unconsciously lacking in leadership skills, self-awareness and EQ, as they are so focused on cost and productivity. Nothing wrong in that of course, but it's about balance (Adair's 'Action Centred Leadership'). Without people, you have nothing and even if you do think that the 'man up and get on with it' premise is the right one, you'll probably be lacking the EQ that is required when it comes to managing and leading people.
In Kirk's case, Charlton have clearly looked at the bigger picture and taken into account the needs of the individual. We are all different.0 -
We seemed to play alright, by and large, with this formation for 2 months last season. The big difference, from what I have seen, this season is Clare and Morgan (in his current role) aren't as good as JFC and Gilbey were.ValleyGary said:
Problem we’ve got is we play 4-4-2 tactics with a 4-3-3 formation.Cafc43v3r said:
1 and guess what....Todds_right_hook said:
That’s an interesting stat and shows that 4-4-2 is dying further up the ladder. We are not in the top two divisions though, do you know how many teams in our division started with 4-4-2?Cafc43v3r said:Just a point, only 3 teams in the top 2 divisions played 442 yesterday and they all got hammered. Just saying.
The team that played the nearest 4411 got beat as well.0 -
This current squad doesn't have enough goals in it.
Do nothing and it's mid-table at best.
Find a Lyle/Bradders/Frenchman and we can push on.
Panic buy in the last week of August and get Josh Parker/ Bonne/Andy Gray/ etc etc etc.
Over to you TS/Gallen
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That is true, although we haven’t even attempted to play through our midfield. If Adkins isn’t confident of Clare being able to play that way, why did he sign him? Also, our full backs need to push on more in that system and it doesn’t help that one of them isn’t playing in their correct position.Cafc43v3r said:
We seemed to play alright, by and large, with this formation for 2 months last season. The big difference, from what I have seen, this season is Clare and Morgan (in his current role) aren't as good as JFC and Gilbey were.ValleyGary said:
Problem we’ve got is we play 4-4-2 tactics with a 4-3-3 formation.Cafc43v3r said:
1 and guess what....Todds_right_hook said:
That’s an interesting stat and shows that 4-4-2 is dying further up the ladder. We are not in the top two divisions though, do you know how many teams in our division started with 4-4-2?Cafc43v3r said:Just a point, only 3 teams in the top 2 divisions played 442 yesterday and they all got hammered. Just saying.
The team that played the nearest 4411 got beat as well.1 -
A lot of people seem to be expecting a lot from Gilbey, when he returns. I don't see him making any difference whatsoever.4
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The panic buy Andy Gray cost more than the other 5 put together and the French man was a free after the season started, there would probably be more moaning about that if we did it now.Valiantphil said:This current squad doesn't have enough goals in it.
Do nothing and it's mid-table at best.
Find a Lyle/Bradders/Frenchman and we can push on.
Panic buy in the last week of August and get Josh Parker/ Bonne/Andy Gray/ etc etc etc.
Over to you TS/Gallen
But your point is right, even though we won't sign another striker, not a "star striker" anyway.0 -
Must not have seen his form under Adkins last season. Looked the player he was at MK. So he does have it in him.superclive98 said:A lot of people seem to be expecting a lot from Gilbey, when he returns. I don't see him making any difference whatsoever.2 -
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I thought that he was okay but that's about all. I don't see him making a huge difference to what we already have available and certainly not in the system that is currently being employed.J BLOCK said:
Must not have seen his form under Adkins last season. Looked the player he was at MK. So he does have it in him.superclive98 said:A lot of people seem to be expecting a lot from Gilbey, when he returns. I don't see him making any difference whatsoever.0 -
Based on his form at the end of last season he should be a bigger goal threat than Morgan or Clare.superclive98 said:
I thought that he was okay but that's about all. I don't see him making a huge difference to what we already have available and certainly not in the system that is currently being employed.J BLOCK said:
Must not have seen his form under Adkins last season. Looked the player he was at MK. So he does have it in him.superclive98 said:A lot of people seem to be expecting a lot from Gilbey, when he returns. I don't see him making any difference whatsoever.1 -
There is no doubt about that but what about the rest of the game? The defensive side of his game needs to improve dramatically, as it will certainly need to.Scoham said:
Based on his form at the end of last season he should be a bigger goal threat than Morgan or Clare.superclive98 said:
I thought that he was okay but that's about all. I don't see him making a huge difference to what we already have available and certainly not in the system that is currently being employed.J BLOCK said:
Must not have seen his form under Adkins last season. Looked the player he was at MK. So he does have it in him.superclive98 said:A lot of people seem to be expecting a lot from Gilbey, when he returns. I don't see him making any difference whatsoever.0 -
Only seen the briefest of highlights,but that first goal was one of the crappiest bits of goalkeeping I have seen,first he could have held on to it,if not it was not that hard to push it away from danger.2
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Does it though? Because that is Dobson's primary position and focus in the formation, as equal parts shield/pivot. Put Gilbey in place of either Morgan or Clare and give him licence to attack and I think he's a big a goal threat as we've got outside of Stockley headers at the moment.superclive98 said:
There is no doubt about that but what about the rest of the game? The defensive side of his game needs to improve dramatically, as it will certainly need to.Scoham said:
Based on his form at the end of last season he should be a bigger goal threat than Morgan or Clare.superclive98 said:
I thought that he was okay but that's about all. I don't see him making a huge difference to what we already have available and certainly not in the system that is currently being employed.J BLOCK said:
Must not have seen his form under Adkins last season. Looked the player he was at MK. So he does have it in him.superclive98 said:A lot of people seem to be expecting a lot from Gilbey, when he returns. I don't see him making any difference whatsoever.1 -
Gilbey in place of Clare. You suddenly add a goal threat and another player opponents have to cater for.0
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I'm not saying he is the new messiah but anyone who cannot see that the Gilby that finished last season would not improve us at the moment is either blind or deluded15
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I am not sure Clare has been bought to play, to be honest. Just before we signed him I heard what our shopping list was, I posted it on here. There were 2 center mids on it. One starter, one for depth.ValleyGary said:
That is true, although we haven’t even attempted to play through our midfield. If Adkins isn’t confident of Clare being able to play that way, why did he sign him? Also, our full backs need to push on more in that system and it doesn’t help that one of them isn’t playing in their correct position.Cafc43v3r said:
We seemed to play alright, by and large, with this formation for 2 months last season. The big difference, from what I have seen, this season is Clare and Morgan (in his current role) aren't as good as JFC and Gilbey were.ValleyGary said:
Problem we’ve got is we play 4-4-2 tactics with a 4-3-3 formation.Cafc43v3r said:
1 and guess what....Todds_right_hook said:
That’s an interesting stat and shows that 4-4-2 is dying further up the ladder. We are not in the top two divisions though, do you know how many teams in our division started with 4-4-2?Cafc43v3r said:Just a point, only 3 teams in the top 2 divisions played 442 yesterday and they all got hammered. Just saying.
The team that played the nearest 4411 got beat as well.
I think we only offered a deal to Gomes, or even the trial, because Gilbey was a long way off being fit.
I strongly suspect sooner rather than later, our midfield 3 will be Dobson, Gilbey and A N Other.2 -
He certainly isn't the new messiah although some seem to talk about him as though he is.AndyG said:I'm not saying he is the new messiah but anyone who cannot see that the Gilby that finished last season would not improve us at the moment is either blind or deluded
He would improve us but that is from a very low base. We cannot just assume that Gilbey will score the goals that we desperately need, as you still need someone to supply the ball into the box for him to finish. Hopefully, Kirk will be that supplier because it won't be Dobson or Clare.
Albie is the only one of the current midfield with an eye for a pass but I'm sure that he would be the one to make way for Gilbey.0
