Thanks @Weegie Addick and the team for your excellent facilitation. It was both respectful and probing. Like the best types of these events it produced some interesting insights.
I realise that I am an amateur when it comes to player spotting and I tend to judge players how they played against us, but both Dobson and Fraser were players that I identified last summer without the 'black box'. I was hoping for a better example of someone I had never heard of where it had worked well.
I see Category 1 as a major priority. I agree that we should continue with this, but would like us to replicate some of what Brentford do in picking up some Academy rejects from the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and West Ham when they get released. Maybe Juan Castillo was signed with this in mind and his loan is effectively a trial.
Again thanks CAST for an informative and enjoyable evening.
Thanks @Weegie Addick and the team for your excellent facilitation. It was both respectful and probing. Like the best types of these events it produced some interesting insights.
I realise that I am an amateur when it comes to player spotting and I tend to judge players how they played against us, but both Dobson and Fraser were players that I identified last summer without the 'black box'. I was hoping for a better example of someone I had never heard of where it had worked well.
I see Category 1 as a major priority. I agree that we should continue with this, but would like us to replicate some of what Brentford do in picking up some Academy rejects from the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and West Ham when they get released. Maybe Juan Castillo was signed with this in mind and his loan is effectively a trial.
Again thanks CAST for an informative and enjoyable evening.
And/or Nile John, though it didn't sound like that when he signed.
I don’t know why some of you want to analyse what he says and does / pull apart / read between the lines … this is Charlton. We are Charlton Supporters and we were born into a life of misery and disappointment when it comes to our football team. After nearly 60 years of living and breathing it, you get acclimatised. Have a good weekend and here’s to another Addicks defeat
"we need to bring more people into the stadium, which might include people who have never seen a football game before, or never seen a Charlton game before. He mentioned that we have never really extended our reach beyond Greenwich, which we need to do, because there are fans all over London, and all over England"
I admire his optimism but as is fairly obvious, this simply isn't going to happen unless we're promoted.
I don’t get all this maximizing commercial revenues and marketing initiatives for clubs outside of the Prem (even then some of them aren’t ‘brands’)
We’re a small club that has had some decent times in the top flight of English football, but we don’t have a history of success or a large fan base like Sunderland for example.
in my lifetime, when we experienced Premier League football, we had 27000 in the stadium for the big games, and healthy crowds for the others. As you say, the only way people are going to come and watch us, outside of our core support is promotion to the Premier League.
People who have never watched football before or who don’t have a team aren’t suddenly going to think about popping along to the Valley. Not in their hundreds or thousands anyway. We might pick up new fans in the double digits each season if that
"we need to bring more people into the stadium, which might include people who have never seen a football game before, or never seen a Charlton game before. He mentioned that we have never really extended our reach beyond Greenwich, which we need to do, because there are fans all over London, and all over England"
I admire his optimism but as is fairly obvious, this simply isn't going to happen unless we're promoted.
I don’t get all this maximizing commercial revenues and marketing initiatives for clubs outside of the Prem (even then some of them aren’t ‘brands’)
We’re a small club that has had some decent times in the top flight of English football, but we don’t have a history of success or a large fan base like Sunderland for example.
in my lifetime, when we experienced Premier League football, we had 27000 in the stadium for the big games, and healthy crowds for the others. As you say, the only way people are going to come and watch us, outside of our core support is promotion to the Premier League.
People who have never watched football before or who don’t have a team aren’t suddenly going to think about popping along to the Valley. Not in their hundreds or thousands anyway. We might pick up new fans in the double digits each season if that
In the prem days at least half if not more of the 27,000 crowds were prem want to be followers not there for Charlton.
“S said that, in parallel with that, we need to bring more people into the stadium, which might include people who have never seen a football game before, or never seen a Charlton game before. He mentioned that we have never really extended our reach beyond Greenwich, which we need to do, because there are fans all over London, and all over England. TS said that South London will get a lot more attention.”
This, as every Charlton fan knows, would be complete tosh, although I think he qualified it with “in recent years”, which is closer to the truth. Greenwich is about 20% of season-ticket holders and a huge amount of work was done outside the borough over two decades by both club and fans.
The fact “there are fans all over London” is a red herring. There will be relatively few fans in London outside of the SE London boroughs/DA postcodes who don’t have roots in the latter area. There is way too much competition and noise to get any traction elsewhere in London and transport links are a significant factor too.
Charlton have badly neglected Kent (and part of East Sussex) in recent years and the sensible thing is to promote support where there is a Valley Express infrastructure to underpin it. This extended to schools and football teams on a large scale in the past but that work, which yielded new people still going today, has been largely abandoned.
it’s not the only thing that works and different strategies are needed locally but you are not going to redraw the map of London by giving free tickets away in areas that do not identify with Charlton at all, as is happening at present. It’s not how London works.
Pinocchio was a pioneer, not only recruiting Tottenham cab drivers but trying to attract Chelsea, Fulham, QPR & Brentford fans from West London. Poor mare
“S said that, in parallel with that, we need to bring more people into the stadium, which might include people who have never seen a football game before, or never seen a Charlton game before. He mentioned that we have never really extended our reach beyond Greenwich, which we need to do, because there are fans all over London, and all over England. TS said that South London will get a lot more attention.”
This, as every Charlton fan knows, would be complete tosh, although I think he qualified it with “in recent years”, which is closer to the truth. Greenwich is about 20% of season-ticket holders and a huge amount of work was done outside the borough over two decades by both club and fans.
The fact “there are fans all over London” is a red herring. There will be relatively few fans in London outside of the SE London boroughs/DA postcodes who don’t have roots in the latter area. There is way too much competition and noise to get any traction elsewhere in London and transport links are a significant factor too.
Charlton have badly neglected Kent (and part of East Sussex) in recent years and the sensible thing is to promote support where there is a Valley Express infrastructure to underpin it. This extended to schools and football teams on a large scale in the past but that work, which yielded new people still going today, has been largely abandoned.
it’s not the only thing that works and different strategies are needed locally but you are not going to redraw the map of London by giving free tickets away in areas that do not identify with Charlton at all, as is happening at present. It’s not how London works.
You are right. He did qualify it. As such your point above seems cheap point scoring to me.
He said he would look outside Greenwich. Maybe that includes reinvigorating Valley Express...
Good luck to TS looking outside Greenwich wherever he goes. I have my doubts for the reasons you give but frankly applaud him for trying. Just because things haven't worked or been tried in the past doesn't mean they won't in the future.
Half The Valley seats are currently empty so there is plenty of scope to try to get bums on them, just a fine line between that and watering down season tickets which I am sure they are alive to.
"we need to bring more people into the stadium, which might include people who have never seen a football game before, or never seen a Charlton game before. He mentioned that we have never really extended our reach beyond Greenwich, which we need to do, because there are fans all over London, and all over England"
I admire his optimism but as is fairly obvious, this simply isn't going to happen unless we're promoted.
I don’t get all this maximizing commercial revenues and marketing initiatives for clubs outside of the Prem (even then some of them aren’t ‘brands’)
We’re a small club that has had some decent times in the top flight of English football, but we don’t have a history of success or a large fan base like Sunderland for example.
in my lifetime, when we experienced Premier League football, we had 27000 in the stadium for the big games, and healthy crowds for the others. As you say, the only way people are going to come and watch us, outside of our core support is promotion to the Premier League.
People who have never watched football before or who don’t have a team aren’t suddenly going to think about popping along to the Valley. Not in their hundreds or thousands anyway. We might pick up new fans in the double digits each season if that
Maybe with some banging tunes playing in the bar before and after the game we'll get the music crowd in........ then again........
Ok this season has been a nightmare and big mistakes have been made. However fairplay to the bloke for holding this Q&A he must of known it would be tricky but he didnt dodge it. For all you people saying he is being self entitled I have some breaking news for you. HE IS ENTITLED! It's his money he is pissing up the wall. How anyone can think he doesnt want the best for the club ofcourse he does ! If not the same reasons of us certainly for financial ones. Lessons have obviously been learnt and hopefully improvements made. All we can hope is that he gets things right as he learns and we end up in the right place.
summer recruitment - expects 2- 4 players to sign on in summer with some retained - (negotiations going on now), some players loaned out and maybe some sold... expects 1 experienced player to sign on with the rest of the perms investments, will fill out squad with 5-6 inexpensive (but good!) loans
He said 2-5 key players supplemented with 5-6 loans.
Yes... 2-5 players signed, 1 probably a more experienced player the rest investments with potential to push on, the rest of the squad filled out with 5-6 loans...
No, 2-5 significant players he said, I read that as first team, not squad players.
I read it as 2.5 (two point five) bodies given our penchant for injuries. 😂
"we need to bring more people into the stadium, which might include people who have never seen a football game before, or never seen a Charlton game before. He mentioned that we have never really extended our reach beyond Greenwich, which we need to do, because there are fans all over London, and all over England"
I admire his optimism but as is fairly obvious, this simply isn't going to happen unless we're promoted.
I don’t get all this maximizing commercial revenues and marketing initiatives for clubs outside of the Prem (even then some of them aren’t ‘brands’)
We’re a small club that has had some decent times in the top flight of English football, but we don’t have a history of success or a large fan base like Sunderland for example.
in my lifetime, when we experienced Premier League football, we had 27000 in the stadium for the big games, and healthy crowds for the others. As you say, the only way people are going to come and watch us, outside of our core support is promotion to the Premier League.
People who have never watched football before or who don’t have a team aren’t suddenly going to think about popping along to the Valley. Not in their hundreds or thousands anyway. We might pick up new fans in the double digits each season if that
I've got a couple of mates who support Premier league teams who took their young kids during the freebie games and they were interested in going back again and i'm sure there will have been others, but at most this is only going to be a number in the low 3 figures (if that).
“S said that, in parallel with that, we need to bring more people into the stadium, which might include people who have never seen a football game before, or never seen a Charlton game before. He mentioned that we have never really extended our reach beyond Greenwich, which we need to do, because there are fans all over London, and all over England. TS said that South London will get a lot more attention.”
This, as every Charlton fan knows, would be complete tosh, although I think he qualified it with “in recent years”, which is closer to the truth. Greenwich is about 20% of season-ticket holders and a huge amount of work was done outside the borough over two decades by both club and fans.
The fact “there are fans all over London” is a red herring. There will be relatively few fans in London outside of the SE London boroughs/DA postcodes who don’t have roots in the latter area. There is way too much competition and noise to get any traction elsewhere in London and transport links are a significant factor too.
Charlton have badly neglected Kent (and part of East Sussex) in recent years and the sensible thing is to promote support where there is a Valley Express infrastructure to underpin it. This extended to schools and football teams on a large scale in the past but that work, which yielded new people still going today, has been largely abandoned.
it’s not the only thing that works and different strategies are needed locally but you are not going to redraw the map of London by giving free tickets away in areas that do not identify with Charlton at all, as is happening at present. It’s not how London works.
You are right. He did qualify it. As such your point above seems cheap point scoring to me.
He said he would look outside Greenwich. Maybe that includes reinvigorating Valley Express...
Good luck to TS looking outside Greenwich wherever he goes. I have my doubts for the reasons you give but frankly applaud him for trying. Just because things haven't worked or been tried in the past doesn't mean they won't in the future.
Half The Valley seats are currently empty so there is plenty of scope to try to get bums on them, just a fine line between that and watering down season tickets which I am sure they are alive to.
Yes, Katrien was right all along, I’m sure. You only have finite resource - if you deploy it in stupid places then you are wasting that resource and missing the opportunity to do it in places where the cost-benefit ratio is more favourable.
If you work with supporters in those communities you multiply the effect of your resource, as we did in the 90s and 00s. If you employ consultants who know nothing about the club to issue tickets to their contacts they will tick boxes but they don’t have any interest in the medium term outcomes. They will just take your money.
There are no London clubs outside the PL that draw significant support from right across the capital. There is a reason for that and it’s not that they didn’t think of it.
TS said that that split into two categories: clubs like Gillingham and Oxford which have low operating costs, but don’t have the ability to make much revenue; and clubs like Brentford which had focused on player development. He said that Charlton are starting to bring in individual coaches to help players break through with their careers. He said that Brentford didn’t really have an academy, and that he is doing the opposite because “we have an amazing foundation with one of the best academies in the country”. TS continued that he was continuing to develop the player side and focus on buying and seller in a better way than we have done in the past. In terms of being financially prudent, we can’t be like Gillingham, because we have a huge fanbase which we can mobilise. “Hopefully long term we’ll make a profit due to smart player trades.” (So we can be like Brentford ... but not like Brentford).
HA asked how he expects it to pan out for next season. TS said that the club is trying to be more consistent in getting good football players rather than just those who are good at getting the long balls (What?). He said that we will continue to build a squad that could do well at Championship level. TS said that we made some improvements in the midfield, but he’s looking to make more. He said that that will always be his key focus. He said that if George Dobson had better players around him, he could play at Premier League level. “I’m going to focus a lot on the attacking midfielder, and also players who can get the ball up (What?).” TS also mentioned Ryan Innis being out with injuries, and that we need to make improvements at the back. He said that there will be a minimum of a couple of players who will give us a significant boost.
TS said it comes back to his strategy for the business side, which is to increase revenues. “I have a strong belief that we can increase sponsorship revenues and ticket sales, get more food and drink sales, and increase hospitality sales.” He said that he is willing to make the investment in not necessarily seeing bigger short-term revenues, but first and foremost getting every seat filled. He said that if a sponsor sees a full stadium, it’s more likely they’ll be willing to get involved. “That’s where it all starts. (Umm ... no, Thomas. It starts with a decent team)” TS said he has tested a number of things, including things we may not have noticed, and some have worked and others haven’t. He said people have been handing out tickets at events at the O2, but hardly any of those were used. TS said that giving season ticket holders the ability to bring three friends was initially very popular but dropped off. He also mentioned initiatives with grassroots football clubs and schools in the area, which he said has some momentum. TS also mentioned an initiative with the University of Greenwich, but said there seemed to be absolutely no interest there in them coming to football games (So, actually ... none of them have worked, have they, Thomas?). TS said the club is using consultants on this. “I’m not letting up until that stadium is full. Period.” (Then you might want to prioritise on a decent team. No charge, no consultant's fee ... you can have that one for free, Thomas).
Related to that, HA said that people are questioning the value for money with their season tickets due to the free tickets available. She asked what TS’s strategy for season tickets is for next season. TS said he intends to put a good effort into ensuring the club has as many season ticket holders as possible. We have a little over 10,000 season ticket holders at the moment, and TS wants to continue to build on that figure. “That’s the basis of how we grow our club. We want to make sure that they get as much attention as possible, and we serve them as well as we possibly can.” TS said that, in parallel with that, we need to bring more people into the stadium, which might include people who have never seen a football game before, or never seen a Charlton game before. He mentioned that we have never really extended our reach beyond Greenwich, which we need to do, because there are fans all over London, and all over England. TS said that South London will get a lot more attention. (Yes, they'll just come flying in from (insert place with no easy access to a professional football team) to see us lose at home to Oxford).
HA picked back up on the player interactions. TS said he’s looking at a structured process for signatures and meeting players, and a system that the players know. He said it’s a big part of the experience. “I want the overall experience, from when someone leaves home to when they get back, to be as great as it can be.” (Start with the result on the pitch, Thomas. No charge).
Tom and Rosh asked whether TS has considered some friendly investors to share the load. TS said that he had not at this time, and that it’s probably not necessary. One possibility is a potential acquisition of the Valley and the training ground, but it might make more business sense to have some friendly real estate investors. He said that it might also be that we end up in “that weird place in the Championship where it would take a long time and a lot of money to get into the Premier League”. He said that he thinks he can avoid that by “just being smarter about how we run this business.” (That's great news because no investor will be remotely interested, Thomas. You have nothing but debt and running costs to sell).
Mike asked what went wrong in last summer’s transfer window. TS said that one of two agents “really managed to screw up two main targets for us”. He said that “when you literally have a deal in place and you see them being shopped around other clubs, that’s very frustrating.” TS said that, other than that, he thinks we got a good start on building the club we want for the future. We brought in several young, hungry players who will continue to improve. “I don’t think we got a whole lot wrong. We missed out on a few opportunities. Realistically, you should probably expect that, but I’m very competitive.” (So why are we currently 16th in League 1, Thomas? Maybe we got a lot wrong ... or does 'very competitive' mean OK with mid-table?).
I could go on, but it hurts me to do so.
The man is a half-wit.
That makes depressing reading, he really doesn't have a clue does he ?
I don’t think it is TS that is clueless.
The difference being I'm not trying to run a football club & if I was, as I have no prior experience I would bring in somebody who knew what they were doing to give guidance if nothing else. I certainly wouldn't bring in my equally inexperienced son who I've known for a few years (is he adopted?) as a director of recruitment analysis. Running a football club is easy? So why are we sitting in an uncomfortable 16th with continuing plunging gates even with giving away thousands of free tickets. Give me a shout this time next year, let's see where we are.
You have to laugh. A bloke with no football experience comes in and tries to run a football club and is beset by screeching saying 'you've got no experience, you don't know what you're doing, you should do it like this', all from rando football fans who have absolutely no experience running football clubs. It's amazing that so many owners get it wrong but the fans who turn up pissed on the terraces every other week have it figured out. The main difference between Sandgaard and the fans with their own 5 year plans is that Sandgaard actually turned up with the money. Imagine binning £8m on a basket case football club and being called a half-wit by someone's grandad. What a world.
You have to laugh. A bloke with no football experience comes in and tries to run a football club and is beset by screeching saying 'you've got no experience, you don't know what you're doing, you should do it like this', all from rando football fans who have absolutely no experience running football clubs. It's amazing that so many owners get it wrong but the fans who turn up pissed on the terraces every other week have it figured out. The main difference between Sandgaard and the fans with their own 5 year plans is that Sandgaard actually turned up with the money. Imagine binning £8m on a basket case football club and being called a half-wit by someone's grandad. What a world.
Unfortunately there are a number of people who have a lot of experience of running a football club who think the exactly same thing (and I'm not talking about me).
This may be why we are now getting a narrative from TS about how badly the club was run in the Premier League. Given the transformation and growth of the club between 1992 and, say, 2004, including the capital investment in the stadium, that may turn out to be a hard case for TS to make. But many people have selective memories, so who knows?
“S said that, in parallel with that, we need to bring more people into the stadium, which might include people who have never seen a football game before, or never seen a Charlton game before. He mentioned that we have never really extended our reach beyond Greenwich, which we need to do, because there are fans all over London, and all over England. TS said that South London will get a lot more attention.”
This, as every Charlton fan knows, would be complete tosh, although I think he qualified it with “in recent years”, which is closer to the truth. Greenwich is about 20% of season-ticket holders and a huge amount of work was done outside the borough over two decades by both club and fans.
The fact “there are fans all over London” is a red herring. There will be relatively few fans in London outside of the SE London boroughs/DA postcodes who don’t have roots in the latter area. There is way too much competition and noise to get any traction elsewhere in London and transport links are a significant factor too.
Charlton have badly neglected Kent (and part of East Sussex) in recent years and the sensible thing is to promote support where there is a Valley Express infrastructure to underpin it. This extended to schools and football teams on a large scale in the past but that work, which yielded new people still going today, has been largely abandoned.
it’s not the only thing that works and different strategies are needed locally but you are not going to redraw the map of London by giving free tickets away in areas that do not identify with Charlton at all, as is happening at present. It’s not how London works.
I live near Clapham Common and I can get to the Valley in about an hour and a half, whether by car or public transport. Have taken friends to matches, and they enjoyed the experience, but they’re not Charlton fans and are unlikely to repeat the experience because of the three hours travelling. Wimbledon is a five to ten minute drive away and Chelsea and Fulham are also pretty close.
TS said that that split into two categories: clubs like Gillingham and Oxford which have low operating costs, but don’t have the ability to make much revenue; and clubs like Brentford which had focused on player development. He said that Charlton are starting to bring in individual coaches to help players break through with their careers. He said that Brentford didn’t really have an academy, and that he is doing the opposite because “we have an amazing foundation with one of the best academies in the country”. TS continued that he was continuing to develop the player side and focus on buying and seller in a better way than we have done in the past. In terms of being financially prudent, we can’t be like Gillingham, because we have a huge fanbase which we can mobilise. “Hopefully long term we’ll make a profit due to smart player trades.” (So we can be like Brentford ... but not like Brentford).
HA asked how he expects it to pan out for next season. TS said that the club is trying to be more consistent in getting good football players rather than just those who are good at getting the long balls (What?). He said that we will continue to build a squad that could do well at Championship level. TS said that we made some improvements in the midfield, but he’s looking to make more. He said that that will always be his key focus. He said that if George Dobson had better players around him, he could play at Premier League level. “I’m going to focus a lot on the attacking midfielder, and also players who can get the ball up (What?).” TS also mentioned Ryan Innis being out with injuries, and that we need to make improvements at the back. He said that there will be a minimum of a couple of players who will give us a significant boost.
TS said it comes back to his strategy for the business side, which is to increase revenues. “I have a strong belief that we can increase sponsorship revenues and ticket sales, get more food and drink sales, and increase hospitality sales.” He said that he is willing to make the investment in not necessarily seeing bigger short-term revenues, but first and foremost getting every seat filled. He said that if a sponsor sees a full stadium, it’s more likely they’ll be willing to get involved. “That’s where it all starts. (Umm ... no, Thomas. It starts with a decent team)” TS said he has tested a number of things, including things we may not have noticed, and some have worked and others haven’t. He said people have been handing out tickets at events at the O2, but hardly any of those were used. TS said that giving season ticket holders the ability to bring three friends was initially very popular but dropped off. He also mentioned initiatives with grassroots football clubs and schools in the area, which he said has some momentum. TS also mentioned an initiative with the University of Greenwich, but said there seemed to be absolutely no interest there in them coming to football games (So, actually ... none of them have worked, have they, Thomas?). TS said the club is using consultants on this. “I’m not letting up until that stadium is full. Period.” (Then you might want to prioritise on a decent team. No charge, no consultant's fee ... you can have that one for free, Thomas).
Related to that, HA said that people are questioning the value for money with their season tickets due to the free tickets available. She asked what TS’s strategy for season tickets is for next season. TS said he intends to put a good effort into ensuring the club has as many season ticket holders as possible. We have a little over 10,000 season ticket holders at the moment, and TS wants to continue to build on that figure. “That’s the basis of how we grow our club. We want to make sure that they get as much attention as possible, and we serve them as well as we possibly can.” TS said that, in parallel with that, we need to bring more people into the stadium, which might include people who have never seen a football game before, or never seen a Charlton game before. He mentioned that we have never really extended our reach beyond Greenwich, which we need to do, because there are fans all over London, and all over England. TS said that South London will get a lot more attention. (Yes, they'll just come flying in from (insert place with no easy access to a professional football team) to see us lose at home to Oxford).
HA picked back up on the player interactions. TS said he’s looking at a structured process for signatures and meeting players, and a system that the players know. He said it’s a big part of the experience. “I want the overall experience, from when someone leaves home to when they get back, to be as great as it can be.” (Start with the result on the pitch, Thomas. No charge).
Tom and Rosh asked whether TS has considered some friendly investors to share the load. TS said that he had not at this time, and that it’s probably not necessary. One possibility is a potential acquisition of the Valley and the training ground, but it might make more business sense to have some friendly real estate investors. He said that it might also be that we end up in “that weird place in the Championship where it would take a long time and a lot of money to get into the Premier League”. He said that he thinks he can avoid that by “just being smarter about how we run this business.” (That's great news because no investor will be remotely interested, Thomas. You have nothing but debt and running costs to sell).
Mike asked what went wrong in last summer’s transfer window. TS said that one of two agents “really managed to screw up two main targets for us”. He said that “when you literally have a deal in place and you see them being shopped around other clubs, that’s very frustrating.” TS said that, other than that, he thinks we got a good start on building the club we want for the future. We brought in several young, hungry players who will continue to improve. “I don’t think we got a whole lot wrong. We missed out on a few opportunities. Realistically, you should probably expect that, but I’m very competitive.” (So why are we currently 16th in League 1, Thomas? Maybe we got a lot wrong ... or does 'very competitive' mean OK with mid-table?).
I could go on, but it hurts me to do so.
The man is a half-wit.
That makes depressing reading, he really doesn't have a clue does he ?
I don’t think it is TS that is clueless.
The difference being I'm not trying to run a football club & if I was, as I have no prior experience I would bring in somebody who knew what they were doing to give guidance if nothing else. I certainly wouldn't bring in my equally inexperienced son who I've known for a few years (is he adopted?) as a director of recruitment analysis. Running a football club is easy? So why are we sitting in an uncomfortable 16th with continuing plunging gates even with giving away thousands of free tickets. Give me a shout this time next year, let's see where we are.
There are a lot of positives about the 92 to 04 transformaiton, but there is a fair argument that the infrastructure of the club wasn't improved as revenue from TV money grew, be it the number of boxes at the Valley, no investment for example in the pitch, to the state of Sparrows Lane. I have a bit of sympathy for an argument that whilst the results on the pitch were good, the capital spend was done at the bottom of the market and hasn't set the club up well.
There are a lot of positives about the 92 to 04 transformaiton, but there is a fair argument that the infrastructure of the club wasn't improved as revenue from TV money grew, be it the number of boxes at the Valley, no investment for example in the pitch, to the state of Sparrows Lane. I have a bit of sympathy for an argument that whilst the results on the pitch were good, the capital spend was done at the bottom of the market and hasn't set the club up well.
I agree with you that there are things the board could have done differently, including capital investment. I thought the boardroom extension was sheer indulgence, for example. But that's not where TS is going. He is saying that that the club shouldn't have lost the money it did (whatever we think that is) i.e. that the club should have generated more revenue or spent less. I think it's a very big stretch for him to come along and tell us that the club didn't do enough 20 years ago to exploit the situation commercially (higher ticket prices, for example) or should have spent less. How could he possibly understand the context?
In any event, the old board, whatever you make of it, took a big financial hit on the chin when the club was relegated. They did not leave the club with a pile of debt. The comparison with Derby's position is offensive.
"we need to bring more people into the stadium, which might include people who have never seen a football game before, or never seen a Charlton game before. He mentioned that we have never really extended our reach beyond Greenwich, which we need to do, because there are fans all over London, and all over England"
I admire his optimism but as is fairly obvious, this simply isn't going to happen unless we're promoted.
I don’t get all this maximizing commercial revenues and marketing initiatives for clubs outside of the Prem (even then some of them aren’t ‘brands’)
We’re a small club that has had some decent times in the top flight of English football, but we don’t have a history of success or a large fan base like Sunderland for example.
in my lifetime, when we experienced Premier League football, we had 27000 in the stadium for the big games, and healthy crowds for the others. As you say, the only way people are going to come and watch us, outside of our core support is promotion to the Premier League.
People who have never watched football before or who don’t have a team aren’t suddenly going to think about popping along to the Valley. Not in their hundreds or thousands anyway. We might pick up new fans in the double digits each season if that
And if you take into account the fans we lose (churn) then the actual growth is minimal. Its a tough job attracting fans, especially youngsters when you are competing with, PlayStation, Xbox, tiktok and YouTube. As others have said above, build a ream, play attractive football, get promoted and the fans will come.
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I realise that I am an amateur when it comes to player spotting and I tend to judge players how they played against us, but both Dobson and Fraser were players that I identified last summer without the 'black box'. I was hoping for a better example of someone I had never heard of where it had worked well.
I see Category 1 as a major priority. I agree that we should continue with this, but would like us to replicate some of what Brentford do in picking up some Academy rejects from the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and West Ham when they get released. Maybe Juan Castillo was signed with this in mind and his loan is effectively a trial.
Again thanks CAST for an informative and enjoyable evening.
We’re a small club that has had some decent times in the top flight of English football, but we don’t have a history of success or a large fan base like Sunderland for example.
in my lifetime, when we experienced Premier League football, we had 27000 in the stadium for the big games, and healthy crowds for the others. As you say, the only way people are going to come and watch us, outside of our core support is promotion to the Premier League.
People who have never watched football before or who don’t have a team aren’t suddenly going to think about popping along to the Valley. Not in their hundreds or thousands anyway. We might pick up new fans in the double digits each season if that
He said he would look outside Greenwich. Maybe that includes reinvigorating Valley Express...
Good luck to TS looking outside Greenwich wherever he goes. I have my doubts for the reasons you give but frankly applaud him for trying. Just because things haven't worked or been tried in the past doesn't mean they won't in the future.
Half The Valley seats are currently empty so there is plenty of scope to try to get bums on them, just a fine line between that and watering down season tickets which I am sure they are alive to.
For all you people saying he is being self entitled I have some breaking news for you. HE IS ENTITLED! It's his money he is pissing up the wall. How anyone can think he doesnt want the best for the club ofcourse he does ! If not the same reasons of us certainly for financial ones.
Lessons have obviously been learnt and hopefully improvements made. All we can hope is that he gets things right as he learns and we end up in the right place.
"You're shit, now fucking live like it"
There are no London clubs outside the PL that draw significant support from right across the capital. There is a reason for that and it’s not that they didn’t think of it.
This may be why we are now getting a narrative from TS about how badly the club was run in the Premier League. Given the transformation and growth of the club between 1992 and, say, 2004, including the capital investment in the stadium, that may turn out to be a hard case for TS to make. But many people have selective memories, so who knows?
Oh the irony
In any event, the old board, whatever you make of it, took a big financial hit on the chin when the club was relegated. They did not leave the club with a pile of debt. The comparison with Derby's position is offensive.
Its a tough job attracting fans, especially youngsters when you are competing with, PlayStation, Xbox, tiktok and YouTube.
As others have said above, build a ream, play attractive football, get promoted and the fans will come.