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Q&A with Thomas Sandgaard Thu 3 March - link to meeting notes p9

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  • NapaAddick
    NapaAddick Posts: 4,657
    Anyone else find the "wants to break even as soon as possible" line worrying? 
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,734
    NapaAddick said:
    Anyone else find the "wants to break even as soon as possible" line worrying? 
    More chance of top two.
  • Phil
    Phil Posts: 612
    When I arrive at my seat not hearing “Addicks To Victory” either Thomas has sold up or discovered some humility…….guess which one my money’s on?
  • rikofold
    rikofold Posts: 4,051
    Henry Irving said:
    That Cat 1 work around was mentioned at the Fans forum meeting four or five months ago.

    So did he say we're having an official audit or he's paying for a test audit to see if we'll pass the real thing?
    They're waiting for an official audit to be scheduled. 

    The way it works is like many other audits. They're not looking for perfection per se, and the outcome is expected to be Cat1 status with an action plan to be outworked over the next year or longer. They do, of course, have to meet the basics, but you'd have thought between Ged Roddy and Steve Avory the knowledge is there.

    No guarantees of course - the powers that be may not want a League One Cat1 academy. 
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,344
    <insert negative comment here for the sake of whining>
  • jimmymelrose
    jimmymelrose Posts: 9,753
    Dazzler21 said:
    <insert negative comment here for the sake of whining>
    Insert using these scissors.


  • thenewbie
    thenewbie Posts: 11,001
    I genuinely don't think that even (most of) the critics of Sandgaard have missed any of that - the real SandgaardOut nutters are a fringe movement.

    I don't see that the more sceptical amongst us (including me, for what it's worth) aren't fully prepared to give him a chance, there's very little personal antagonism to him personally and he's freely admitted to making mistakes and wanting to learn from them.

    All well and good... BUT:

    We have been told multiple times that things are going to improve. They have not. Words only go so far.

    The recruitment was terrible yes but so far the only difference seems to be putting someone else in charge of the exact sane system that delivered bad results - said someone else having no apparent expertise or experience in English football at that. Expecting better this summer than last is pure optimism frankly.

    Plus, all the time spent "learning from mistakes" the club is AT BEST standing still, at worst declining. By the time Sandgaard has learned "on the job" he probably won't have the kind of funds or influence to do anything about it. Every season in League One the rot will get worse. We are not sustainable at this level the way TS envisions. That's a fact.

    I've said before and bears repeating I like Sandgaard on a personal level, I am grateful for what he's done and the money he's spent. None of that means I believe he's the man to take us forward. 
  • jimmymelrose
    jimmymelrose Posts: 9,753
    I do agree with you @Lordflashheart, and I reckon many others who have been criticising would also recognise your points.

    The question is however, would you give a chance to anyone else to act as CEO if they said at the interview:
    'I can only be around for  one week per month. I have to run another business in the US. I'll be a bit jet lagged and tired when I am over.' (60 years old and getting no younger).
    'I don't know much about football but it doesn't matter because I'll get my son to help out.' 'No he doesn't have any experience either.'
    'Football's not difficult. People are just making it seem like you need some expertise.'

    TS seems a great bloke and I'd love to have an owner like him (the swushbucking, outgoing, fun loving, rock star side if his persona) succeed. Sadly, I don't see that happening. The only saving grace is that he will fund us with League One's third highest budget and so we shouldn't go down further. It seems to me that a lot of Lifers have got used to mediocrity, and are afraid to tell him that he's underestimating, even insulting, the employees of other clubs in our league.
  • Lordflashheart
    Lordflashheart Posts: 5,623
    jimmymelrose said:
    I do agree with you @Lordflashheart, and I reckon many others who have been criticising would also recognise your points.

    The question is however, would you give a chance to anyone else to act as CEO if they said at the interview:
    'I can only be around for  one week per month. I have to run another business in the US. I'll be a bit jet lagged and tired when I am over.' (60 years old and getting no younger).
    'I don't know much about football but it doesn't matter because I'll get my son to help out.' 'No he doesn't have any experience either.'
    'Football's not difficult. People are just making it seem like you need some expertise.'

    TS seems a great bloke and I'd love to have an owner like him (the swushbucking, outgoing, fun loving, rock star side if his persona) succeed. Sadly, I don't see that happening. The only saving grace is that he will fund us with League One's third highest budget and so we shouldn't go down further. It seems to me that a lot of Lifers have got used to mediocrity, and are afraid to tell him that he's underestimating, even insulting, the employees of other clubs in our league.
    I agree with you, and he is displaying naivety with some comments and actions - we are indeed crying out for a CEO a la Peter Varney and people onboard with professional and proven British football skills - perhaps a co-investor to seriously beef up the money available not only in terms of budget, but also getting The Valley and Sparrows back under club ownership (I don’t personally see a co-owner happening though)

    But, as I say - I am grateful to still have my club to support, and I am willing to give him time to see if his plans work, especially the circumstances he bought the club in (Covid, lockdowns and all that shit) - don’t forget he only bought the club in Sept 2020 - yes they got it wrong preparing for this season, and judging by his comments he and Adkins didn’t see eye to eye (and yes he held on to him too long)

    My fear is that if fans pile into him (I hate that he is on Twatter) and go OTT with criticism, he will think ‘sod this for a laugh’ and sell up - we could end up with similar to the wankers we had before TS, then we will be proper crapping ourselves…..
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  • Lordflashheart
    Lordflashheart Posts: 5,623
    Lordflashheart said:
    I’m fully prepared for criticism for this post…..

    I think the Elephant in the room, that some are ignoring on here, is that if TS hadn’t come in and saved Charlton Athletic FC, we would not have a club to support anymore, and indeed there would be no Charlton Life forum either (what would be the point) - so I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, and let him push on and do what he thinks best

    Yes, this season has been very disappointing

    Yes, he has made mistakes, and will make more - as all owners will make (appointment of Dowie anybody !!!)

    Yes, some of his statements are incorrect in terms of historical events / actions (and let’s face it, we are a group of supporters who have been through so many ups and downs, we probably are too knowledgable !!)

    Yes, recruitment for this season was scattergun and poor - he admits that, and wants to correct that this summer

    BUT I for one am just pleased that I am still able to get on the train at Dartford for a home game, a few beers in The Oak, walk to The Valley, and watch my team play (and indeed for many away games as well)

    At least he speaks to us, and is a damn sight more impressive than that w*nker Southall

    Give the bloke a fucking chance - he bought a professional football club in a country that (as far as I am aware) he has never lived in, that was on the verge of going bust in the middle of a global pandemic 
    @Maccn05 why the LOL ? 
  • Phil
    Phil Posts: 612
    I think we all acknowledge the things that Sandgaard has done right. That includes saving us from the Belgian in the short term. However, it would be remiss of anyone not to highlight where he has, and continues to makes mistakes or silly comments some of which are factually incorrect.
    Thomas has been keen to speak of the outdated thinking in football whilst favouring new methods although I'm not sure what he means by that. At the same, he was the one who appointed Adkins who hadn't been successful or perhaps relevant since he left Southampton.
    Thomas spoke of Martin and his data skills identifying Fraser as a suitable target for us when that had been done some time ago before anyone reached for a laptop!
    I could go on in respect of the use of an agency to distribute free tickets in a puzzling manner that has alienated fans. His refusal to accept that anyone involved with club over 5 years ago has anything worthwhile or relevant to contribute no matter what or how they achieved it.
    Thomas won't accept that the lack of a CEO is a real problem and one aspect of that from what I understand is staff morale for some is quite low. He'd do well to invest a couple of hours in conducting exit interviews with the three people that are leaving.
    Thomas could do well and take the club forward. However, he is stubborn and refuses to listen to advice. Allied to that, he has a misguided belief that football can be run like any other business and all it needs it common sense.  This will be his downfall.
    Should he be decide to give it up at any time, then the fact that he doesn't own the training ground or The Valley will be a real hindrance when he wants to sell. I can't see anyone would want to negotiate separately with him and the Belgian. 
    All the time that remains the case then the club's very existence is questionable whether there is a rental agreement or not.
  • vff
    vff Posts: 6,881
    edited March 2022
    I reflected on the minutes for a few days, didn't hear the BBC interview, (but heard the discussion / summary on Charlton Live). I am concerned about the gentleman amateur approach and that football is an easy business. Its a multi million / hundreads of million pound industry. I understand TS not wanting to pay alleged experts lots of money but there are decent, football people, who know Charlton, trusted by the supporters and have good experience. In dismissing this expertise, TS appears to making a serious mistake.
    Things like the late season transfer business, imperfect Jan transfer windows,  gaps in the squad, incoherent free ticket piss off the season ticket holders mess, woman to ladies and other half arsed promotions,  - these things don't inspire confidence. TS needs a CEO at the club, who has sufficient authority to feed back, when things are going wrong or the ideas from the US are not working out. This doesn't happen so well, with the club being run from distance, by people not really understanding the culture.
    The misrepresenation of the finances post Duchatelet wasn't great The plans for breaking even unrealistic in league one.  Its good to add in the stats but why ignore proven football business skills. It has uncomfortable echoes of Duchatelet, Miere and Drieson.
    Not sure why a property investor would overpay for the Valley or Sparrows. I am not seeing how Charlton get the Valley back without being in the premiership. I am not seeing how Charlton get there with the current set up and plan.
    TS is clearly a decent guy, and in a differet league than the spivs and chancers, has earned respect for rescuing the club, dealing with Bassini and willingness to communicate. TS stubborn streak and dismissal of any advice regarding the football business side might unfortunately be his undoing. The proof of the pudding is in the eating for end of the season transfer dealings. I hope that it works out but the BBC interview and the Trust Q&A are not reassuring.
  • Six-a-bag-of-nuts
    Six-a-bag-of-nuts Posts: 8,127
    edited March 2022
    .
  • Fanny Fanackapan
    Fanny Fanackapan Posts: 18,738
    Can't disagree with anything in your post, vff.

    " Learn from your mistakes, if you're able to admit to making them " would be an apt piece of advice that the majority of fans would agree with, I believe.

    As I posted once before, if it DOES all go wrong, leading to TS taking his ball back to the USA, it's the faithful that would have to face the inevitable consequences....

    ...and as such, should not be denied their opinions or even the advice they may offer.

    A case of " Been there & got the T shirt"....."and survived", albeit by the skin of our teeth. 
  • Maccn05
    Maccn05 Posts: 967
    Lordflashheart said:
    Lordflashheart said:
    I’m fully prepared for criticism for this post…..

    I think the Elephant in the room, that some are ignoring on here, is that if TS hadn’t come in and saved Charlton Athletic FC, we would not have a club to support anymore, and indeed there would be no Charlton Life forum either (what would be the point) - so I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, and let him push on and do what he thinks best

    Yes, this season has been very disappointing

    Yes, he has made mistakes, and will make more - as all owners will make (appointment of Dowie anybody !!!)

    Yes, some of his statements are incorrect in terms of historical events / actions (and let’s face it, we are a group of supporters who have been through so many ups and downs, we probably are too knowledgable !!)

    Yes, recruitment for this season was scattergun and poor - he admits that, and wants to correct that this summer

    BUT I for one am just pleased that I am still able to get on the train at Dartford for a home game, a few beers in The Oak, walk to The Valley, and watch my team play (and indeed for many away games as well)

    At least he speaks to us, and is a damn sight more impressive than that w*nker Southall

    Give the bloke a fucking chance - he bought a professional football club in a country that (as far as I am aware) he has never lived in, that was on the verge of going bust in the middle of a global pandemic 
    @Maccn05 why the LOL ? 
    Because I’m bored of the ‘he saved the club’ line. Would we have gone into admin? Almost certainly, would we have been bought? Almost certainly.

    He did a great thing, that we’ll all always be thankful for and he’ll always have our respect for that… but it doesn’t get him a free pass forever

    If we had of gone into admin and got docked points we’d have ended up struggling in 16th or looking over our shoulder … oh hold up, we already are 👀

    You mention recruitment and he hasn’t admitted mistakes that I’ve seen only last week he said they got most things right last summer… that’s worth a LOL on its own. As for January has anyone seen John or Castillo and can any believe that Chuks got injured?!?!

    I’ve said before id prefer he got it right but more and more I see the opposite and last week there were some scary signs with his stubbornness, arrogance and lack of football knowledge.

    fingers and toes crossed for a massive summer and a huge turnaround.
  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,349
    edited March 2022
    Well that's a difficult one. Was it Sandgaard's idea to sign Chuks, John and Castillo? Or should he have vetoed those who suggested it? Should he make a habit of doing that?

    Or are we actually going as far as to suggest that every signing is his fault because he's the owner. I think any other team might be looking elsewhere. 
  • RonnieMoore
    RonnieMoore Posts: 4,496
    Chunes said:
    Well that's a difficult one. Was it Sandgaard's idea to sign Chuks, John and Castillo? Or should he have vetoed those who suggested it? Should he make a habit of doing that?

    Or are we actually going as far as to suggest that every signing is his fault because he's the owner. I think any other team might be looking elsewhere. 
    He don’t  pick the players that’s down to JJ and SG … TS just signs the cheque and paperwork 
  • shirty5
    shirty5 Posts: 19,230
    RonnieMoore said:
    Chunes said:
    Well that's a difficult one. Was it Sandgaard's idea to sign Chuks, John and Castillo? Or should he have vetoed those who suggested it? Should he make a habit of doing that?

    Or are we actually going as far as to suggest that every signing is his fault because he's the owner. I think any other team might be looking elsewhere. 
    He don’t  pick the players that’s down to JJ and SG … TS just signs the cheque and paperwork 
    Schwartz? 
  • Redrobo
    Redrobo Posts: 11,330
    Maccn05 said:
    Lordflashheart said:
    Lordflashheart said:
    I’m fully prepared for criticism for this post…..

    I think the Elephant in the room, that some are ignoring on here, is that if TS hadn’t come in and saved Charlton Athletic FC, we would not have a club to support anymore, and indeed there would be no Charlton Life forum either (what would be the point) - so I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, and let him push on and do what he thinks best

    Yes, this season has been very disappointing

    Yes, he has made mistakes, and will make more - as all owners will make (appointment of Dowie anybody !!!)

    Yes, some of his statements are incorrect in terms of historical events / actions (and let’s face it, we are a group of supporters who have been through so many ups and downs, we probably are too knowledgable !!)

    Yes, recruitment for this season was scattergun and poor - he admits that, and wants to correct that this summer

    BUT I for one am just pleased that I am still able to get on the train at Dartford for a home game, a few beers in The Oak, walk to The Valley, and watch my team play (and indeed for many away games as well)

    At least he speaks to us, and is a damn sight more impressive than that w*nker Southall

    Give the bloke a fucking chance - he bought a professional football club in a country that (as far as I am aware) he has never lived in, that was on the verge of going bust in the middle of a global pandemic 
    @Maccn05 why the LOL ? 
    Because I’m bored of the ‘he saved the club’ line. Would we have gone into admin? Almost certainly, would we have been bought? Almost certainly.

    He did a great thing, that we’ll all always be thankful for and he’ll always have our respect for that… but it doesn’t get him a free pass forever

    If we had of gone into admin and got docked points we’d have ended up struggling in 16th or looking over our shoulder … oh hold up, we already are 👀

    You mention recruitment and he hasn’t admitted mistakes that I’ve seen only last week he said they got most things right last summer… that’s worth a LOL on its own. As for January has anyone seen John or Castillo and can any believe that Chuks got injured?!?!

    I’ve said before id prefer he got it right but more and more I see the opposite and last week there were some scary signs with his stubbornness, arrogance and lack of football knowledge.

    fingers and toes crossed for a massive summer and a huge turnaround.
    I thought all the long term signings were good personally; in both Januarys and last summer. Even Kirk. 
    Pity that one did not work out but I don’t think anyone thought it was a wrong un.
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  • Lordflashheart
    Lordflashheart Posts: 5,623
    Maccn05 said:
    Lordflashheart said:
    Lordflashheart said:
    I’m fully prepared for criticism for this post…..

    I think the Elephant in the room, that some are ignoring on here, is that if TS hadn’t come in and saved Charlton Athletic FC, we would not have a club to support anymore, and indeed there would be no Charlton Life forum either (what would be the point) - so I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, and let him push on and do what he thinks best

    Yes, this season has been very disappointing

    Yes, he has made mistakes, and will make more - as all owners will make (appointment of Dowie anybody !!!)

    Yes, some of his statements are incorrect in terms of historical events / actions (and let’s face it, we are a group of supporters who have been through so many ups and downs, we probably are too knowledgable !!)

    Yes, recruitment for this season was scattergun and poor - he admits that, and wants to correct that this summer

    BUT I for one am just pleased that I am still able to get on the train at Dartford for a home game, a few beers in The Oak, walk to The Valley, and watch my team play (and indeed for many away games as well)

    At least he speaks to us, and is a damn sight more impressive than that w*nker Southall

    Give the bloke a fucking chance - he bought a professional football club in a country that (as far as I am aware) he has never lived in, that was on the verge of going bust in the middle of a global pandemic 
    @Maccn05 why the LOL ? 
    Because I’m bored of the ‘he saved the club’ line. Would we have gone into admin? Almost certainly, would we have been bought? Almost certainly.

    He did a great thing, that we’ll all always be thankful for and he’ll always have our respect for that… but it doesn’t get him a free pass forever

    If we had of gone into admin and got docked points we’d have ended up struggling in 16th or looking over our shoulder … oh hold up, we already are 👀

    You mention recruitment and he hasn’t admitted mistakes that I’ve seen only last week he said they got most things right last summer… that’s worth a LOL on its own. As for January has anyone seen John or Castillo and can any believe that Chuks got injured?!?!

    I’ve said before id prefer he got it right but more and more I see the opposite and last week there were some scary signs with his stubbornness, arrogance and lack of football knowledge.

    fingers and toes crossed for a massive summer and a huge turnaround.
    Well I don’t know how old you are, but I was first taken to The Valley in 1976 - I lived through Hulyer (who took us to the brink) Sunley (who took us to Shithurst), the Spivs of course, Roland, and Southwank 

    In-between Sunley and Spivs obviously happy days (largely !!)

    Be careful what you wish for - sleep on that….
  • Fumbluff
    Fumbluff Posts: 10,126
    RonnieMoore said:
    Chunes said:
    Well that's a difficult one. Was it Sandgaard's idea to sign Chuks, John and Castillo? Or should he have vetoed those who suggested it? Should he make a habit of doing that?

    Or are we actually going as far as to suggest that every signing is his fault because he's the owner. I think any other team might be looking elsewhere. 
    He don’t  pick the players that’s down to JJ and SG … TS just signs the cheque and paperwork 
    Ahem M A R D E N
  • sunbury-addick
    sunbury-addick Posts: 1,929
    edited March 2022
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    JamesSeed said:
    Airman Brown said:
    “S said that, in parallel with that, we need to bring more people into the stadium, which might include people who have never seen a football game before, or never seen a Charlton game before. He mentioned that we have never really extended our reach beyond Greenwich, which we need to do, because there are fans all over London, and all over England. TS said that South London will get a lot more attention.”

    This, as every Charlton fan knows, would be complete tosh, although I think he qualified it with “in recent years”, which is closer to the truth. Greenwich is about 20% of season-ticket holders and a huge amount of work was done outside the borough over two decades by both club and fans. 

    The fact “there are fans all over London” is a red herring. There will be relatively few fans in London outside of the SE London boroughs/DA postcodes who don’t have roots in
    the latter area. There is way too much competition and noise to get any traction elsewhere in London and transport links are a significant factor too.

    Charlton have badly neglected Kent (and part of East Sussex) in recent years and the sensible thing is to promote support where there is a Valley Express infrastructure to underpin it. This extended to schools and football teams on a large scale in the past but that work, which yielded new people still going today, has been largely abandoned.

    it’s not the only thing that works and different strategies are needed locally but you are not going to redraw the map of London by giving free tickets away in areas that do not identify with Charlton at all, as is happening at present. It’s not how London works.
    I live near Clapham Common and I can get to the Valley in about an hour and a half, whether by car or public transport. Have taken friends to matches, and they enjoyed the experience, but they’re not Charlton fans and are unlikely to repeat the experience because of the three hours travelling. Wimbledon is a five to ten minute drive away and Chelsea and Fulham are also pretty close. 
    An hour and a half?! Do you drive the Larkfield coach?
    Good call - on a good day, can do it in less than that from Sunbury, going through Clapham Junction. Would have thought Clapham Junction to The Valley was about 40-45 minutes
  • eaststandmike
    eaststandmike Posts: 14,956
    RonnieMoore said:
    Chunes said:
    Well that's a difficult one. Was it Sandgaard's idea to sign Chuks, John and Castillo? Or should he have vetoed those who suggested it? Should he make a habit of doing that?

    Or are we actually going as far as to suggest that every signing is his fault because he's the owner. I think any other team might be looking elsewhere. 
    He don’t  pick the players that’s down to JJ and SG … TS just signs the cheque and paperwork 
    I get the feeling he does more than sign cheques, when you read his press releases where he talks about the "high press" "attacking options" and "defensive duties" I suspect his hands on approach reaches down to player selection.

    There is no way Jacko & Gallen are going to TS and saying "we have just signed player xxxx, sign here please boss"
  • CL_Phantom
    CL_Phantom Posts: 5,513
    RonnieMoore said:
    Chunes said:
    Well that's a difficult one. Was it Sandgaard's idea to sign Chuks, John and Castillo? Or should he have vetoed those who suggested it? Should he make a habit of doing that?

    Or are we actually going as far as to suggest that every signing is his fault because he's the owner. I think any other team might be looking elsewhere. 
    He don’t  pick the players that’s down to JJ and SG … TS just signs the cheque and paperwork 

    I know I shouldn't but.....

    The guy said himself, in this Q&A, what his involvement is, he doesn't just sign cheques. But you knew that already. 
  • Maccn05
    Maccn05 Posts: 967
    Each to their own. I personally think that like Derby now we wouldn’t have gone under. Obviously it would have been a torrid time for the club … but that wasn’t the question.

    As I’ve repeated I’m not a fan of the personality but I genuinely hope he makes a HUGE success of us - I just don’t think he will.
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,008
    Maccn05 said:
    Each to their own. I personally think that like Derby now we wouldn’t have gone under. Obviously it would have been a torrid time for the club … but that wasn’t the question.

    As I’ve repeated I’m not a fan of the personality but I genuinely hope he makes a HUGE success of us - I just don’t think he will.
    I think you must have told us approaching 100 times. 
    I think everyone must know your views. 
  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,765
    edited March 2022
    Maccn05 said:
    Each to their own. I personally think that like Derby now we wouldn’t have gone under. Obviously it would have been a torrid time for the club … but that wasn’t the question.

    As I’ve repeated I’m not a fan of the personality but I genuinely hope he makes a HUGE success of us - I just don’t think he will.
    There exists a parallel universe where the Valley has been unused for the last 18 months while you are down at Park View Road supporting AFC Charlton... your confidence that we would have been fine astounds me honestly.
  • Maccn05
    Maccn05 Posts: 967
    edited March 2022
    Covered End said:
    Maccn05 said:
    Each to their own. I personally think that like Derby now we wouldn’t have gone under. Obviously it would have been a torrid time for the club … but that wasn’t the question.

    As I’ve repeated I’m not a fan of the personality but I genuinely hope he makes a HUGE success of us - I just don’t think he will.
    I think you must have told us approaching 100 times. 
    I think everyone must know your views. 
    I was responding to comment I was tagged in

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