Players like Robson Kanu & Vydra (who were playing for Premier League/high end Championship clubs) are not going to resettle in London for £3k-£5k per week. Not on your nelly.
They may want to stay fit and keep their names out there so a short term contract maybe possible. The trouble with negativity is that nobody is good enough, too old, too young, unfit, injury prone, too expensive, too short, too timid, too aggressive etc etc. and you may well be right.
What I do know is that if you don’t try it certainly won’t happen. Remember when we signed the European footballer of the year?
God knows what the free agent market holds, but wasn't CBT a free agent. He came on a 3 month trial deal and earned a contract off the back of it. Now his stock value has increased significantly, as probably did his wages. Maybe other players will note that.
Waking up to not even seeing Bonne signing is something I did not expect, although as others have said, the writing was on the wall.
Clearly our owner doesn’t want to spend money anymore and everything is being done on the cheap, he spent some fees when he first got here but I think it’s a case of ‘reality bites’ for TS and he’s realised just because you spend 500k on a promising player, you aren’t always gonna see that players stock rise, so going against his own words, football really isn’t that simple.
There were a lot of attainable players at reasonable fees in this league and league 2, the fact he hasn’t even got one shows what the future holds,
balance the books, sell any of our valuable assets if an offer comes along, keep us competitive until a new investor/owner comes along. If he had any ambition with us he would be paying the 300-500k fees required to get the good players in contract at this level, I honestly think it’s unacceptable they’ve waited until the final minute to get a striker when they’ve had all summer. Our scouting system is terrible, all our good signings are from Ben Garners previous side, there’s no way there wasn’t National league & league 2 players ready to make the step up or even prem clubs with young players needing game time. Just seems like utter laziness and lack of knowledge
What I don’t understand was that there were plenty of sources claiming we were prepared to pay decent fees for Simpson and then Scully but Championship clubs came in and we didn’t stand a chance. How can you be absolutely 100% sure TS will never pay a fee again?
Because I don’t believe for a second we were ever in for the likes of Scully, I don’t think there would have been one player we were willing to pay a fee for, that’s why we were trying to shift our players to take a player on loan to cover the wages.
I imagine most people were just guessing or being told by someone who was just guessing because we were told by someone from the recruitment team we would make a signing, all evidence was pointing to it, even Rich seemed quite sure.
He will probably look to get up on the cheap or balance until he can sell. Luckily for us they managed to snag a fantastic manager at this level so we will probably still enjoy the season
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
"Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?
I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.
The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
There are three types of fan at the moment and I will rank them in order of importance to the future of the club. I have held this view for quite some time but appreciate it is not a popular one. I shall start with the least important fans. These are the ones that are Charlton through and through and would watch us every week in the national league. They would be the most important if there was enough of them but there isn't and as they will eat whatever shit they are given, why bother giving them anything decent.
Then you have the next most important. Charlton fans who may be a bit disillusioned in recent years and are no longer season ticket holders and um and ah about whether to attend a game or not. They are and always will be Charlton fans though. They are the next most important as they can make the crowds and revenues more decent but probably not enough ultimately. You can of course take a leaf out of a certain poster's book and call them all traitors and you know whats but that won't get them back. Good winning football and optimism for the future after so many knock backs will do that.
Then you have the most important fans of all. These are potential and fickle fans who need persuading Charlton is their club. The demographics in our catchment area is a positive and suggests there is something to unlock, but you need a key to unlock it. And a plan.
Of course this isn't fair on the true die hard fans but it that doesn't make it untrue IMO. There will always be a few thousand turning up and watching us play Barnet in the National League. But the club has to grow, not shrink. It is already in a place where it is too big to be viable and it either has to get out of that place or shrink appropriately. Which it is gradually doing from what I can see.
I wish you would shut up. You claim to be more important to the club than me because I buy a S/T and attend all the games and you don't.
NB if we had sold another 2000 S/Ts we may have brought in a forward and a defender.
In your scenario we would be playing in an empty/ near empty stadium.
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
"Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?
I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.
The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
There are three types of fan at the moment and I will rank them in order of importance to the future of the club. I have held this view for quite some time but appreciate it is not a popular one. I shall start with the least important fans. These are the ones that are Charlton through and through and would watch us every week in the national league. They would be the most important if there was enough of them but there isn't and as they will eat whatever shit they are given, why bother giving them anything decent.
Then you have the next most important. Charlton fans who may be a bit disillusioned in recent years and are no longer season ticket holders and um and ah about whether to attend a game or not. They are and always will be Charlton fans though. They are the next most important as they can make the crowds and revenues more decent but probably not enough ultimately. You can of course take a leaf out of a certain poster's book and call them all traitors and you know whats but that won't get them back. Good winning football and optimism for the future after so many knock backs will do that.
Then you have the most important fans of all. These are potential and fickle fans who need persuading Charlton is their club. The demographics in our catchment area is a positive and suggests there is something to unlock, but you need a key to unlock it. And a plan.
Of course this isn't fair on the true die hard fans but it that doesn't make it untrue IMO. There will always be a few thousand turning up and watching us play Barnet in the National League. But the club has to grow, not shrink. It is already in a place where it is too big to be viable and it either has to get out of that place or shrink appropriately. Which it is gradually doing from what I can see.
I wish you would shut up. You claim to be more important to the club than me because I buy a S/T and attend all the games and you don't.
A 'Mutley' type of supporter is the reason we have so many empty seats whereas say Ipswich or Sheffield Wednesday don't - they have a bigger core support and its the size of your core support that dictates the size of your club - Mutley doesn't go and i don't consider him a supporter or part of the club - he is a fairweather and we have a far bigger fairweather element in our support than say Ipswich who don't have the catchment for that but do have more true core supporters. The Mutleys are the problem and always have been, even when, in our prime, we were getting the huge crowds one week and then a massive tale off the next. It is what it is but in order of importance, those who keep going through the bad times are the most important in any club as without them, the club wouldn't be there - the Mutley's should thank us for keeping the club alive so they can enjoy the good times when they come around.
is there an emergency loan window to replace players at the World Cup or are league 1 and 2 teams expected to just deal with players being away for a number of weeks?
At the risk of seeming dense I don't even know what that signifies?
I think he's laughing that his transfer fell through as if we aren't the ones actually happy that it did
Ah. Wonder what his parent club think of that, the underachieving little bench warmer.
Irrelevant what QPR think really, they signed him on a long contract and Bonne sound like a chip of the same block as Taylor, and happy to cash in till next summer, they are welcome to him..👍
It’s a dynamic situation, admittedly, but generally we have lost more money in L1 than in the Championship. I don’t accept it’s either/or - there is a middle ground which Millwall have occupied quite successfully in recent years. We were relegated in 19/20 because RD starved the football side of resources.
in any case, TS isn’t “running a tight ship” - he’s reducing crowds with unrealistic prices and removing committed staff on spurious grounds. It’s amateurish and so is his commentary on it.
In all likelihood by dint of finances or personality, TS cannot and will not make it work. He may have done better with a more professional approach but ultimately we need to get the ground back and that will take someone with bigger pockets.
I do not claim any great knowledge of the veracity of the research, but according to this article, Millwall were running £10million losses annually even pre-Covid, and had lost £78million in the last decade. So, if that is accurate, it rather proves the point.
I don't necessarily disagree with you that TS has made various mistakes (often in taking the fans at their word) and, personally, I would be more cautious with price rises than he has been - although it does strike me as hilarious that the same fans who are currently in meltdown because he is not putting his hand in his pocket to buy more players, simply decide not to show up when they are asked to put their hands in their own pockets.
The facts remain: promotion does not offer a way out of this (just larger numbers on the P&L and the same debts, if not more), a cost-of-business crisis is coming (the club's electricity bill next quarter will be eye-watering), and so clubs need to cut their costs. You can certainly argue that TS is going about it in the wrong way, but this is a process that needs to happen.
I’m not going to spend a lot of time researching Millwall’s accounts but the fact remains they have had two seasons in L1 in the last 12, have been in the Championship for the last five and they haven’t gone bust or been relegated in that time. Nobody in their right mind believes they have a stronger commercial or supporter base than Charlton. So clearly it is possible and Charlton’s lowest operating loss in recent years was also in the Championship in 19/20. We went down on the last day by virtue of one goal -or Taylor’s absence, if you like - so relegation was not inevitable even though Duchatelet’s miserly playing budget created the problem. It wouldn’t have required much more spending to stay up.
Is Championship football the solution? No. But it gives you significantly more income to utilise and it makes you much more attractive to a buyer, plus it is an easier sell to fans. You have an opportunity to grow which does not exist in L1, no matter how often TS claims otherwise.
How you conclude that fans not showing up are those complaining he should spend more money I have no idea. I should think most are season ticket holders. The point about price is that it impacts on sales to the least committed or least able to afford it. There isn’t some moral duty on them to help out - it’s how markets work.
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
"Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?
I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.
The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
There are three types of fan at the moment and I will rank them in order of importance to the future of the club. I have held this view for quite some time but appreciate it is not a popular one. I shall start with the least important fans. These are the ones that are Charlton through and through and would watch us every week in the national league. They would be the most important if there was enough of them but there isn't and as they will eat whatever shit they are given, why bother giving them anything decent.
Then you have the next most important. Charlton fans who may be a bit disillusioned in recent years and are no longer season ticket holders and um and ah about whether to attend a game or not. They are and always will be Charlton fans though. They are the next most important as they can make the crowds and revenues more decent but probably not enough ultimately. You can of course take a leaf out of a certain poster's book and call them all traitors and you know whats but that won't get them back. Good winning football and optimism for the future after so many knock backs will do that.
Then you have the most important fans of all. These are potential and fickle fans who need persuading Charlton is their club. The demographics in our catchment area is a positive and suggests there is something to unlock, but you need a key to unlock it. And a plan.
Of course this isn't fair on the true die hard fans but it that doesn't make it untrue IMO. There will always be a few thousand turning up and watching us play Barnet in the National League. But the club has to grow, not shrink. It is already in a place where it is too big to be viable and it either has to get out of that place or shrink appropriately. Which it is gradually doing from what I can see.
I wish you would shut up. You claim to be more important to the club than me because I buy a S/T and attend all the games and you don't.
A 'Mutley' type of supporter is the reason we have so many empty seats whereas say Ipswich or Sheffield Wednesday don't - they have a bigger core support and its the size of your core support that dictates the size of your club - Mutley doesn't go and i don't consider him a supporter or part of the club - he is a fairweather and we have a far bigger fairweather element in our support than say Ipswich who don't have the catchment for that but do have more true core supporters. The Mutleys are the problem and always have been, even when, in our prime, we were getting the huge crowds one week and then a massive tale off the next. It is what it is but in order of importance, those who keep going through the bad times are the most important in any club as without them, the club wouldn't be there - the Mutley's should thank us for keeping the club alive so they can enjoy the good times when they come around.
At the risk of seeming dense I don't even know what that signifies?
I think he's laughing that his transfer fell through as if we aren't the ones actually happy that it did
Ah. Wonder what his parent club think of that, the underachieving little bench warmer.
Irrelevant what QPR think really, they signed him on a long contract and Bonne sound like a chip of the same block as Taylor, and happy to cash in till next summer, they are welcome to him..👍
Players like Robson Kanu & Vydra (who were playing for Premier League/high end Championship clubs) are not going to resettle in London for £3k-£5k per week. Not on your nelly.
They may want to stay fit and keep their names out there so a short term contract maybe possible. The trouble with negativity is that nobody is good enough, too old, too young, unfit, injury prone, too expensive, too short, too timid, too aggressive etc etc. and you may well be right.
What I do know is that if you don’t try it certainly won’t happen. Remember when we signed the European footballer of the year?
Yeah we were bankrupt and homeless within a year or two. Maybe we should try that again.
It’s a dynamic situation, admittedly, but generally we have lost more money in L1 than in the Championship. I don’t accept it’s either/or - there is a middle ground which Millwall have occupied quite successfully in recent years. We were relegated in 19/20 because RD starved the football side of resources.
in any case, TS isn’t “running a tight ship” - he’s reducing crowds with unrealistic prices and removing committed staff on spurious grounds. It’s amateurish and so is his commentary on it.
In all likelihood by dint of finances or personality, TS cannot and will not make it work. He may have done better with a more professional approach but ultimately we need to get the ground back and that will take someone with bigger pockets.
I do not claim any great knowledge of the veracity of the research, but according to this article, Millwall were running £10million losses annually even pre-Covid, and had lost £78million in the last decade. So, if that is accurate, it rather proves the point.
I don't necessarily disagree with you that TS has made various mistakes (often in taking the fans at their word) and, personally, I would be more cautious with price rises than he has been - although it does strike me as hilarious that the same fans who are currently in meltdown because he is not putting his hand in his pocket to buy more players, simply decide not to show up when they are asked to put their hands in their own pockets.
The facts remain: promotion does not offer a way out of this (just larger numbers on the P&L and the same debts, if not more), a cost-of-business crisis is coming (the club's electricity bill next quarter will be eye-watering), and so clubs need to cut their costs. You can certainly argue that TS is going about it in the wrong way, but this is a process that needs to happen.
I’m not going to spend a lot of time researching Millwall’s accounts but the fact remains they have had two seasons in L1 in the last 12, have been the Championship for the last five and they haven’t gone bust or been relegated in that time. Nobody in their right mind believes they have a stronger commercial or supporter base than Charlton. So clearly it is possible and Charlton’s lowest operating loss in recent years was also in the Championship. We went down on the last day by virtue of one goal -Taylor’s absence, if you like, so relegation was not inevitable even though Duchatelet’s miserly playing budget created the problem.
Is Championship football the solution - no. But it gives you significantly more income to utilise and it makes you much more attractive to a buyer, plus it is an easier sell to fans.
How you conclude that fans not showing up are those concluding he should spend more money I have no idea. I should think most are season tickets holders.
Its your time and you can obviously do what you like but that article does appear to contradict your view that we would make a lower annual loss in the championship - thats become almost fact for a lot on here.
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
"Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?
I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.
The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
There are three types of fan at the moment and I will rank them in order of importance to the future of the club. I have held this view for quite some time but appreciate it is not a popular one. I shall start with the least important fans. These are the ones that are Charlton through and through and would watch us every week in the national league. They would be the most important if there was enough of them but there isn't and as they will eat whatever shit they are given, why bother giving them anything decent.
Then you have the next most important. Charlton fans who may be a bit disillusioned in recent years and are no longer season ticket holders and um and ah about whether to attend a game or not. They are and always will be Charlton fans though. They are the next most important as they can make the crowds and revenues more decent but probably not enough ultimately. You can of course take a leaf out of a certain poster's book and call them all traitors and you know whats but that won't get them back. Good winning football and optimism for the future after so many knock backs will do that.
Then you have the most important fans of all. These are potential and fickle fans who need persuading Charlton is their club. The demographics in our catchment area is a positive and suggests there is something to unlock, but you need a key to unlock it. And a plan.
Of course this isn't fair on the true die hard fans but it that doesn't make it untrue IMO. There will always be a few thousand turning up and watching us play Barnet in the National League. But the club has to grow, not shrink. It is already in a place where it is too big to be viable and it either has to get out of that place or shrink appropriately. Which it is gradually doing from what I can see.
I wish you would shut up. You claim to be more important to the club than me because I buy a S/T and attend all the games and you don't.
A 'Mutley' type of supporter is the reason we have so many empty seats whereas say Ipswich or Sheffield Wednesday don't - they have a bigger core support and its the size of your core support that dictates the size of your club - Mutley doesn't go and i don't consider him a supporter or part of the club - he is a fairweather and we have a far bigger fairweather element in our support than say Ipswich who don't have the catchment for that but do have more true core supporters. The Mutleys are the problem and always have been, even when, in our prime, we were getting the huge crowds one week and then a massive tale off the next. It is what it is but in order of importance, those who keep going through the bad times are the most important in any club as without them, the club wouldn't be there - the Mutley's should thank us for keeping the club alive so they can enjoy the good times when they come around.
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
"Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?
I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.
The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
There are three types of fan at the moment and I will rank them in order of importance to the future of the club. I have held this view for quite some time but appreciate it is not a popular one. I shall start with the least important fans. These are the ones that are Charlton through and through and would watch us every week in the national league. They would be the most important if there was enough of them but there isn't and as they will eat whatever shit they are given, why bother giving them anything decent.
Then you have the next most important. Charlton fans who may be a bit disillusioned in recent years and are no longer season ticket holders and um and ah about whether to attend a game or not. They are and always will be Charlton fans though. They are the next most important as they can make the crowds and revenues more decent but probably not enough ultimately. You can of course take a leaf out of a certain poster's book and call them all traitors and you know whats but that won't get them back. Good winning football and optimism for the future after so many knock backs will do that.
Then you have the most important fans of all. These are potential and fickle fans who need persuading Charlton is their club. The demographics in our catchment area is a positive and suggests there is something to unlock, but you need a key to unlock it. And a plan.
Of course this isn't fair on the true die hard fans but it that doesn't make it untrue IMO. There will always be a few thousand turning up and watching us play Barnet in the National League. But the club has to grow, not shrink. It is already in a place where it is too big to be viable and it either has to get out of that place or shrink appropriately. Which it is gradually doing from what I can see.
I wish you would shut up. You claim to be more important to the club than me because I buy a S/T and attend all the games and you don't.
A 'Mutley' type of supporter is the reason we have so many empty seats whereas say Ipswich or Sheffield Wednesday don't - they have a bigger core support and its the size of your core support that dictates the size of your club - Mutley doesn't go and i don't consider him a supporter or part of the club - he is a fairweather and we have a far bigger fairweather element in our support than say Ipswich who don't have the catchment for that but do have more true core supporters. The Mutleys are the problem and always have been, even when, in our prime, we were getting the huge crowds one week and then a massive tale off the next. It is what it is but in order of importance, those who keep going through the bad times are the most important in any club as without them, the club wouldn't be there - the Mutley's should thank us for keeping the club alive so they can enjoy the good times when they come around.
It’s a dynamic situation, admittedly, but generally we have lost more money in L1 than in the Championship. I don’t accept it’s either/or - there is a middle ground which Millwall have occupied quite successfully in recent years. We were relegated in 19/20 because RD starved the football side of resources.
in any case, TS isn’t “running a tight ship” - he’s reducing crowds with unrealistic prices and removing committed staff on spurious grounds. It’s amateurish and so is his commentary on it.
In all likelihood by dint of finances or personality, TS cannot and will not make it work. He may have done better with a more professional approach but ultimately we need to get the ground back and that will take someone with bigger pockets.
I do not claim any great knowledge of the veracity of the research, but according to this article, Millwall were running £10million losses annually even pre-Covid, and had lost £78million in the last decade. So, if that is accurate, it rather proves the point.
I don't necessarily disagree with you that TS has made various mistakes (often in taking the fans at their word) and, personally, I would be more cautious with price rises than he has been - although it does strike me as hilarious that the same fans who are currently in meltdown because he is not putting his hand in his pocket to buy more players, simply decide not to show up when they are asked to put their hands in their own pockets.
The facts remain: promotion does not offer a way out of this (just larger numbers on the P&L and the same debts, if not more), a cost-of-business crisis is coming (the club's electricity bill next quarter will be eye-watering), and so clubs need to cut their costs. You can certainly argue that TS is going about it in the wrong way, but this is a process that needs to happen.
I’m not going to spend a lot of time researching Millwall’s accounts but the fact remains they have had two seasons in L1 in the last 12, have been in the Championship for the last five and they haven’t gone bust or been relegated in that time. Nobody in their right mind believes they have a stronger commercial or supporter base than Charlton. So clearly it is possible and Charlton’s lowest operating loss in recent years was also in the Championship in 19/20. We went down on the last day by virtue of one goal -or Taylor’s absence, if you like - so relegation was not inevitable even though Duchatelet’s miserly playing budget created the problem. It wouldn’t have required much more spending to stay up.
Is Championship football the solution? No? But it gives you significantly more income to utilise and it makes you much more attractive to a buyer, plus it is an easier sell to fans. You have an opportunity to grow which does not exist in L1, no matter how often TS claims otherwise.
How you conclude that fans not showing up are those complaining he should spend more money I have no idea. I should think most are season tickets holders. The point about price is that impact the least committed or least able to afford it. There isn’t some moral duty on them to help out - it’s how markets work.
In that season, Roland's budget WAS just enough for survival, the bare minimum, but enough. Without ESI screwing things up, we wouldn't have had the transfer restrictions in January that hampered us so badly.
That season, and the seasons of teams like Rotherham and Wycombe show that it's possible with good management to give it a good go in the Championship without making massive losses. You might survive, you might not, but financially it's far more attractive than L1 football.
It’s a dynamic situation, admittedly, but generally we have lost more money in L1 than in the Championship. I don’t accept it’s either/or - there is a middle ground which Millwall have occupied quite successfully in recent years. We were relegated in 19/20 because RD starved the football side of resources.
in any case, TS isn’t “running a tight ship” - he’s reducing crowds with unrealistic prices and removing committed staff on spurious grounds. It’s amateurish and so is his commentary on it.
In all likelihood by dint of finances or personality, TS cannot and will not make it work. He may have done better with a more professional approach but ultimately we need to get the ground back and that will take someone with bigger pockets.
I do not claim any great knowledge of the veracity of the research, but according to this article, Millwall were running £10million losses annually even pre-Covid, and had lost £78million in the last decade. So, if that is accurate, it rather proves the point.
I don't necessarily disagree with you that TS has made various mistakes (often in taking the fans at their word) and, personally, I would be more cautious with price rises than he has been - although it does strike me as hilarious that the same fans who are currently in meltdown because he is not putting his hand in his pocket to buy more players, simply decide not to show up when they are asked to put their hands in their own pockets.
The facts remain: promotion does not offer a way out of this (just larger numbers on the P&L and the same debts, if not more), a cost-of-business crisis is coming (the club's electricity bill next quarter will be eye-watering), and so clubs need to cut their costs. You can certainly argue that TS is going about it in the wrong way, but this is a process that needs to happen.
I’m not going to spend a lot of time researching Millwall’s accounts but the fact remains they have had two seasons in L1 in the last 12, have been the Championship for the last five and they haven’t gone bust or been relegated in that time. Nobody in their right mind believes they have a stronger commercial or supporter base than Charlton. So clearly it is possible and Charlton’s lowest operating loss in recent years was also in the Championship. We went down on the last day by virtue of one goal -Taylor’s absence, if you like, so relegation was not inevitable even though Duchatelet’s miserly playing budget created the problem.
Is Championship football the solution - no. But it gives you significantly more income to utilise and it makes you much more attractive to a buyer, plus it is an easier sell to fans.
How you conclude that fans not showing up are those concluding he should spend more money I have no idea. I should think most are season tickets holders.
Its your time and you can obviously do what you like but that article does appear to contradict your view that we would make a lower annual loss in the championship - thats become almost fact for a lot on here.
So, what this shows is that despite ESI wasting money on themselves and Covid, which hit in March 2020, the operating loss in 2019/20 in the Championship was £5.3m, which was £6.6mm, £8.0m and £9.0m better than in L1 in the preceding three seasons. The main reason is the top line - central income. I would argue and have that Duchatelet should have spent SOME of that on improving the squad to increase the chances of staying up, but nothing like all of it.
The 2015/16 figure is an outlier because Duchatelet spent heavily trying to stay up which you can see was then largely recouped by player trading, The 2020/21 figure is distorted because almost all the season was behind closed doors and Sandgaard transferred the leasehold assets (the stands) to Roland as part of his lease agreement. They were previously on the football club balance sheet.
It is just a fact that Charlton have tended to lose less money in the Championship than L1, although the losses accelerated under Roland. The figure was £7.2m in 2013/14 and £7.8m in 2014/15.
Have a good look at those commercial income figures in L1 while you're there.
Shopping in Poundland, the player has had no pre season meaning it will be atleast November before he is fully up to speed, why does that player not have a club ? Does that suggest he is past his best or injury prone ? How many free agents have actually turned a clubs season around ?
Kermogant
A clear anamoly and not a situation to model transfer strategy on.
There will unlikely be a Yann out there albeit some very appealing names on the available list such as Vydra and to a lesser extent Robson Kanu
I appreciate that to every kermogant there is a Leon best x 10.
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
"Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?
I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.
The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
I agree that Sandgaard has completely underestimated the task and and is making it up as he goes along, but what has Sandgaard got to sell bar a failing football club.
If someone buys duchatalet out, I can't see it being easy to do with the madness of him and even someone with serious wealth in the billions would have find it hard negotiating it with him or even contacting him.
Which is why I think were more likely to end up with crooks.
I agree he has little or nothing to sell. He is using his revenue projections to argue otherwise, but they are nonsense. He may be able to survive with windfall transfer profits for a while, but it's not sustainable.
He could get lucky with Ben Garner or his successor, as Roland did, and get back in the Championship, which would help. But I still think are some very wealthy people around who may fancy a London-based club with a stadium equipped to host Premier League football and manage to sort Roland out with a deal based on the latter.
Would Sandgaard sell to crooks? I think better of him than that, but it may depend how desperate he gets.
Do you think TS might start thinking of selling if we fail to get out of L1 this season?
I believe he is thinking of that now. He knows this football club will drain him of his wealth and all the signs are that he is trying to stem the tide. I honestly believe he is a nice guy with good intentions but English foitball runs at a loss and there is no doubt that he did not understand that situation. His problem is, as a lot of people have pointed out, he actually owns nothing of value. I hope he manages to pull off the greatest trick in English football, a club that doesnt run at a loss, but nobody outside the premier has managed that yet. I believe he will either sell or have to gamble on buying players and keeping our kids to get the club into the championship, I think at the moment he isnt up for the gamble.
It’s a dynamic situation, admittedly, but generally we have lost more money in L1 than in the Championship. I don’t accept it’s either/or - there is a middle ground which Millwall have occupied quite successfully in recent years. We were relegated in 19/20 because RD starved the football side of resources.
in any case, TS isn’t “running a tight ship” - he’s reducing crowds with unrealistic prices and removing committed staff on spurious grounds. It’s amateurish and so is his commentary on it.
In all likelihood by dint of finances or personality, TS cannot and will not make it work. He may have done better with a more professional approach but ultimately we need to get the ground back and that will take someone with bigger pockets.
I do not claim any great knowledge of the veracity of the research, but according to this article, Millwall were running £10million losses annually even pre-Covid, and had lost £78million in the last decade. So, if that is accurate, it rather proves the point.
I don't necessarily disagree with you that TS has made various mistakes (often in taking the fans at their word) and, personally, I would be more cautious with price rises than he has been - although it does strike me as hilarious that the same fans who are currently in meltdown because he is not putting his hand in his pocket to buy more players, simply decide not to show up when they are asked to put their hands in their own pockets.
The facts remain: promotion does not offer a way out of this (just larger numbers on the P&L and the same debts, if not more), a cost-of-business crisis is coming (the club's electricity bill next quarter will be eye-watering), and so clubs need to cut their costs. You can certainly argue that TS is going about it in the wrong way, but this is a process that needs to happen.
I’m not going to spend a lot of time researching Millwall’s accounts but the fact remains they have had two seasons in L1 in the last 12, have been the Championship for the last five and they haven’t gone bust or been relegated in that time. Nobody in their right mind believes they have a stronger commercial or supporter base than Charlton. So clearly it is possible and Charlton’s lowest operating loss in recent years was also in the Championship. We went down on the last day by virtue of one goal -Taylor’s absence, if you like, so relegation was not inevitable even though Duchatelet’s miserly playing budget created the problem.
Is Championship football the solution - no. But it gives you significantly more income to utilise and it makes you much more attractive to a buyer, plus it is an easier sell to fans.
How you conclude that fans not showing up are those concluding he should spend more money I have no idea. I should think most are season tickets holders.
Its your time and you can obviously do what you like but that article does appear to contradict your view that we would make a lower annual loss in the championship - thats become almost fact for a lot on here.
I’m not sure there’s a contradiction there at all. Charlton’s average attendances are still 2-3,000 more than Millwall over the last few seasons while we’ve been in a lower division. The uplift potential for Charlton from higher crowds, even if only a further 2-3,000, and commercial opportunities is greater than Millwall have shown they can generate despite having their “best ever” main sponsorship deal.
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
"Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?
I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.
The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
There are three types of fan at the moment and I will rank them in order of importance to the future of the club. I have held this view for quite some time but appreciate it is not a popular one. I shall start with the least important fans. These are the ones that are Charlton through and through and would watch us every week in the national league. They would be the most important if there was enough of them but there isn't and as they will eat whatever shit they are given, why bother giving them anything decent.
Then you have the next most important. Charlton fans who may be a bit disillusioned in recent years and are no longer season ticket holders and um and ah about whether to attend a game or not. They are and always will be Charlton fans though. They are the next most important as they can make the crowds and revenues more decent but probably not enough ultimately. You can of course take a leaf out of a certain poster's book and call them all traitors and you know whats but that won't get them back. Good winning football and optimism for the future after so many knock backs will do that.
Then you have the most important fans of all. These are potential and fickle fans who need persuading Charlton is their club. The demographics in our catchment area is a positive and suggests there is something to unlock, but you need a key to unlock it. And a plan.
Of course this isn't fair on the true die hard fans but it that doesn't make it untrue IMO. There will always be a few thousand turning up and watching us play Barnet in the National League. But the club has to grow, not shrink. It is already in a place where it is too big to be viable and it either has to get out of that place or shrink appropriately. Which it is gradually doing from what I can see.
I wish you would shut up. You claim to be more important to the club than me because I buy a S/T and attend all the games and you don't.
A 'Mutley' type of supporter is the reason we have so many empty seats whereas say Ipswich or Sheffield Wednesday don't - they have a bigger core support and its the size of your core support that dictates the size of your club - Mutley doesn't go and i don't consider him a supporter or part of the club - he is a fairweather and we have a far bigger fairweather element in our support than say Ipswich who don't have the catchment for that but do have more true core supporters. The Mutleys are the problem and always have been, even when, in our prime, we were getting the huge crowds one week and then a massive tale off the next. It is what it is but in order of importance, those who keep going through the bad times are the most important in any club as without them, the club wouldn't be there - the Mutley's should thank us for keeping the club alive so they can enjoy the good times when they come around.
Comments
The trouble with negativity is that nobody is good enough, too old, too young, unfit, injury prone, too expensive, too short, too timid, too aggressive etc etc. and you may well be right.
What I do know is that if you don’t try it certainly won’t happen. Remember when we signed the European footballer of the year?
I think he's laughing that his transfer fell through as if we aren't the ones actually happy that it did
In your scenario we would be playing in an empty/ near empty stadium.
Is Championship football the solution? No. But it gives you significantly more income to utilise and it makes you much more attractive to a buyer, plus it is an easier sell to fans. You have an opportunity to grow which does not exist in L1, no matter how often TS claims otherwise.
How you conclude that fans not showing up are those complaining he should spend more money I have no idea. I should think most are season ticket holders. The point about price is that it impacts on sales to the least committed or least able to afford it. There isn’t some moral duty on them to help out - it’s how markets work.
Difficult to be anything else since I moved to Cornwall.
Seriously I am glad there are diehard fans who turn up because that is what supporting the club means.
That season, and the seasons of teams like Rotherham and Wycombe show that it's possible with good management to give it a good go in the Championship without making massive losses. You might survive, you might not, but financially it's far more attractive than L1 football.
So, what this shows is that despite ESI wasting money on themselves and Covid, which hit in March 2020, the operating loss in 2019/20 in the Championship was £5.3m, which was £6.6mm, £8.0m and £9.0m better than in L1 in the preceding three seasons. The main reason is the top line - central income. I would argue and have that Duchatelet should have spent SOME of that on improving the squad to increase the chances of staying up, but nothing like all of it.
The 2015/16 figure is an outlier because Duchatelet spent heavily trying to stay up which you can see was then largely recouped by player trading, The 2020/21 figure is distorted because almost all the season was behind closed doors and Sandgaard transferred the leasehold assets (the stands) to Roland as part of his lease agreement. They were previously on the football club balance sheet.
It is just a fact that Charlton have tended to lose less money in the Championship than L1, although the losses accelerated under Roland. The figure was £7.2m in 2013/14 and £7.8m in 2014/15.
Have a good look at those commercial income figures in L1 while you're there.
Zero Goals.
Sorry being pedantic but meteorological autumn began yesterday...almost a great joke...😎😉
https://gameofthepeople.com/2022/02/16/qpr-cut-their-losses-despite-matchday-hit/