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Summer 2022 transfer rumours (Gilbey loan confirmed p513, a signing falls through last minute p541)

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  • ricky_otto
    ricky_otto Posts: 22,600
    meldrew66 said:
    Isn't there anybody on here who knows the identity of the 'striker' we missed out on?
    Peter Odemwingie - he was in the car park flashing his lights but Ron Dangerfield was half asleep and passed him off as a dogger.
  • Todds_right_hook
    Todds_right_hook Posts: 10,889
    WhenIwasLittleBoy said:
    Shopping in Poundland, the player has had no pre season meaning it will be atleast November before he is fully up to speed, why does that player not have a club ? Does that suggest he is past his best or injury prone ? 
    How many free agents have actually turned a clubs season around ?
    Kermogant
  • mendonca
    mendonca Posts: 9,415
    Covered_End_Lad said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    cafcdave123 said:
    J BLOCK said:
    I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship. 

    For us to compete properly, he needs to sell. 
    to who?

    i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
    "Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?

    I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.

    The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
    When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
    Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
    How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership? 

    He doesnt really have anything to sell as he doesnt own the assets. He paid very little maybe a million max but has picked up the tab for several seasons of £8m losses. So realistically he would need to see for minimum 16m-20m to make profit unless he can convince someone to take on the accrued debt since he took over plus any other liabilities that were already in place.

    In short, no.
    Agree - he won't recover his losses that he knew he wasn't getting into. It depends when he gets bored of the new hobby I suppose.

  • Todds_right_hook
    Todds_right_hook Posts: 10,889
    SouthLincsAddick said:
    Braziliance said:
    Waking up to not even seeing Bonne signing is something I did not expect, although as others have said, the writing was on the wall. 

    Clearly our owner doesn’t want to spend money anymore and everything is being done on the cheap, he spent some fees when he first got here but I think it’s a case of ‘reality bites’ for TS and he’s realised just because you spend 500k on a promising player, you aren’t always gonna see that players stock rise, so going against his own words, football really isn’t that simple. 

    There were a lot of attainable players at reasonable fees in this league and league 2, the fact he hasn’t even got one shows what the future holds, 

    balance the books, sell any of our valuable assets if an offer comes along, keep us competitive until a new investor/owner comes along. If he had any ambition with us he would be paying the 300-500k fees required to get the good players in contract at this level, I honestly think it’s unacceptable they’ve waited until the final minute to get a striker when they’ve had all summer. Our scouting system is terrible, all our good signings are from Ben Garners previous side, there’s no way there wasn’t National league & league 2 players ready to make the step up or even prem clubs with young players needing game time. Just seems like utter laziness and lack of knowledge 
    What I don’t understand was that there were plenty of sources claiming we were prepared to pay decent fees for Simpson and then Scully but Championship clubs came in and we didn’t stand a chance. How can you be absolutely 100% sure TS will never pay a fee again?
    They can't. It just sounds good when having a dig at the guy who saved the club two years ago. 

    A guy that has made funds available previously for the right player. 
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,648
    mendonca said:
    Covered_End_Lad said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    cafcdave123 said:
    J BLOCK said:
    I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship. 

    For us to compete properly, he needs to sell. 
    to who?

    i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
    "Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?

    I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.

    The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
    When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
    Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
    How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership? 

    He doesnt really have anything to sell as he doesnt own the assets. He paid very little maybe a million max but has picked up the tab for several seasons of £8m losses. So realistically he would need to see for minimum 16m-20m to make profit unless he can convince someone to take on the accrued debt since he took over plus any other liabilities that were already in place.

    In short, no.
    Agree - he won't recover his losses that he knew he wasn't getting into. It depends when he gets bored of the new hobby I suppose.

    He can’t break even in league one. That’s fantasy. I’m not sure he’s prepared to fund us at £8 million a season for too much longer. Already he’s tightening his belt but there aren’t many notches left. Can’t see promotion this season and if we don’t make it next season, then I don’t see him hanging around much longer. 
  • RodneyCharltonTrotta
    RodneyCharltonTrotta Posts: 14,832
    Todds_right_hook said:
    WhenIwasLittleBoy said:
    Shopping in Poundland, the player has had no pre season meaning it will be atleast November before he is fully up to speed, why does that player not have a club ? Does that suggest he is past his best or injury prone ? 
    How many free agents have actually turned a clubs season around ?
    Kermogant
    A clear anamoly and not a situation to model transfer strategy on. 

    There will unlikely be a Yann out there albeit some very appealing  names on the available list such as Vydra and to a lesser extent Robson Kanu
  • AndyG
    AndyG Posts: 5,919
    Although yesterday was a major let down I do think we have had a decent window. The players we have signed will improve us no doubt. My biggest concern is that I doubt we will manage to hold onto Garner. Once a few Championship clubs start to part ways with their Managers as the season goes along he will be sort after I'm sure. If our improvement under him continues it will show that what he achieved last year at Swindon wasnt a fluke
  • WK6824Nine
    WK6824Nine Posts: 571
    Let’s try and bring in Sam Winnall or robson Kanu.
  • Garrymanilow
    Garrymanilow Posts: 13,212
    WhenIwasLittleBoy said:
    Shopping in Poundland, the player has had no pre season meaning it will be atleast November before he is fully up to speed, why does that player not have a club ? Does that suggest he is past his best or injury prone ? 
    How many free agents have actually turned a clubs season around ?
    I think for us possibly the 2014/15 season. We were absolutely rattled and didn't win a game between 8th November and 14th February. At its worst we were three points off the dropzone. I remember a feeling of real hopelessness after the Norwich 3-2 loss. Across February though we brought in Chris Eagles, Alou Diarra and, weirdly successfully, Roger Johnson. Suddenly we had a strong defender, a legendary holding midfielder and a winger who could score goals. We stopped conceding so many, ground out a few results and had some really great wins in there. We won 7 in 9 at one point. What a weird season that was.
  • Athletico Charlton
    Athletico Charlton Posts: 14,289
    edited September 2022
    Covered_End_Lad said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    cafcdave123 said:
    J BLOCK said:
    I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship. 

    For us to compete properly, he needs to sell. 
    to who?

    i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
    "Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?

    I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.

    The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
    When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
    Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
    How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership? 

    He doesnt really have anything to sell as he doesnt own the assets. He paid very little maybe a million max but has picked up the tab for several seasons of £8m losses. So realistically he would need to see for minimum 16m-20m to make profit unless he can convince someone to take on the accrued debt since he took over plus any other liabilities that were already in place.

    In short, no.
    Same thing.  If he got paid whatever his debt is he would simply be paying off his loans to us.

    Cafc43v3r said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    cafcdave123 said:
    J BLOCK said:
    I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship. 

    For us to compete properly, he needs to sell. 
    to who?

    i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
    "Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?

    I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.

    The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
    When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
    Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
    How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership? 
    Of course he can't.  Even if it only cost him £1 he has spent about £20 million since he bought us.

    What has he actually got to sell?
    Has he? I have not looked at the last set of accounts which may give clues but he has owned us for what, 2 years?  So let's say £8M loss per year is accurate (don't know but it is the number bandied on here) then he is £16M down.  He surely didn't buy the club for more than £1 or he is an idiot.

    Now look at player trading since he joined

    Out (fees are not disclosed but general consensus on here at the time)

    Bonne £2M
    Burstow £1.6M
    Phillips £300K
    KAG sell on £1.5M
    Pope sell on £2M
    Doughty £600K
    Davisson £50K
    Beadle £400K
    Total £8.45M

    Bought
    Schwartz £300K
    Gilbey £100K
    Washington £50K
    Kirk £500K
    Fraser £400K
    Stockley £350K
    DJ £300K
    Clare £50K
    Aneke £300K
    Total £2.35M

    Profit £6.1M

    So he may be in to the tune of £10M for now (best case for him).


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  • Southbank
    Southbank Posts: 5,267
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    mendonca said:
    Covered_End_Lad said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    cafcdave123 said:
    J BLOCK said:
    I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship. 

    For us to compete properly, he needs to sell. 
    to who?

    i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
    "Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?

    I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.

    The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
    When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
    Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
    How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership? 

    He doesnt really have anything to sell as he doesnt own the assets. He paid very little maybe a million max but has picked up the tab for several seasons of £8m losses. So realistically he would need to see for minimum 16m-20m to make profit unless he can convince someone to take on the accrued debt since he took over plus any other liabilities that were already in place.

    In short, no.
    Agree - he won't recover his losses that he knew he wasn't getting into. It depends when he gets bored of the new hobby I suppose.

    He can’t break even in league one. That’s fantasy. I’m not sure he’s prepared to fund us at £8 million a season for too much longer. Already he’s tightening his belt but there aren’t many notches left. Can’t see promotion this season and if we don’t make it next season, then I don’t see him hanging around much longer. 
    He is already in a position where he is trying to cut his losses, not invest for the future. My guess he wants to hang on until he can find a buyer. He won't get his losses back in any scenario while we re a Div 3 club. But I guess he does not want to gamble on spending the money needed to get promotion.
  • msomerton
    msomerton Posts: 2,988
    cafcdave123 said:
    J BLOCK said:
    I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship. 

    For us to compete properly, he needs to sell. 
    to who?

    i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
    are you serious about safe hands, We have an owner who cannot afford to run Charlton Athletic football club. A thing I have been saying from day 2 of his ownership.
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER Posts: 7,915
    meldrew66 said:
    Isn't there anybody on here who knows the identity of the 'striker' we missed out on?
    I was thinking about that - guessing the medical wasn't undertaken at Sparrows Lane or was done under the cover of darkness ??...?? Anyway, i'm done with this window now and there is nothing left to do than support the team - as i've said before, the only way any of us can actually do something tangible to help get what we want is paying your money and opening your lungs at matches - whinging on and on on a message board about what should or shouldn't be happening and actually contributing naff all youself - well, that register will be in the next edition of News Shopper !!    
  • SantaClaus
    SantaClaus Posts: 7,673
    Athletico Charlton said:
    Covered_End_Lad said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    cafcdave123 said:
    J BLOCK said:
    I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship. 

    For us to compete properly, he needs to sell. 
    to who?

    i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
    "Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?

    I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.

    The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
    When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
    Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
    How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership? 

    He doesnt really have anything to sell as he doesnt own the assets. He paid very little maybe a million max but has picked up the tab for several seasons of £8m losses. So realistically he would need to see for minimum 16m-20m to make profit unless he can convince someone to take on the accrued debt since he took over plus any other liabilities that were already in place.

    In short, no.
    Same thing.  If he got paid whatever his debt is he would simply be paying off his loans to us.

    Cafc43v3r said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    cafcdave123 said:
    J BLOCK said:
    I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship. 

    For us to compete properly, he needs to sell. 
    to who?

    i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
    "Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?

    I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.

    The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
    When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
    Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
    How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership? 
    Of course he can't.  Even if it only cost him £1 he has spent about £20 million since he bought us.

    What has he actually got to sell?
    Has he? I have not looked at the last set of accounts which may give clues but he owned us for what, 2 years?  So let's say £8M loss per year is accurate (don't know but it is the number bandied on here) then he is £16M down.  He surely didn't buy the club for more than £1 or he is an idiot.

    Now look at player trading since he joined

    Out (fees are not disclosed but general consensus on here at the time)

    Bonne £2M
    Burstow £1.6M
    Phillips £300K
    KAG sell on £1.5M
    Pope sell on £2M
    Doughty £600K
    Davisson £50K
    Beadle £400K
    Total £8.45M

    Bought
    Schwartz £300K
    Gilbey £100K
    Washington £50K
    Kirk £500K
    Fraser £400K
    Stockley £350K
    DJ £300K
    Clare £50K
    Aneke £300K
    Total £2.35M

    Profit £6.1M

    So he may we'll be in to the tune of £10M for now.  


    You could also make a case that the club's losses are denominated in £ but TS fortune is in all likelihood denominated in $. The recent exchange rate movements have therefore wiped out 10-15% of those losses from his perspective.
  • Ferryman
    Ferryman Posts: 2,921
    Airman Brown said:
    UEAAddick said:
    Airman Brown said:
    cafcdave123 said:
    J BLOCK said:
    I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship. 

    For us to compete properly, he needs to sell. 
    to who?

    i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
    "Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?

    I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.

    The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
    I agree that Sandgaard has completely underestimated the task and and is making it up as he goes along, but what has Sandgaard got to sell bar a failing football club. 

    If someone buys duchatalet out, I can't see it being easy to do with the madness of him and even someone with serious wealth in the billions would have find it hard negotiating it with him or even contacting him.

    Which is why I think were more likely to end up with crooks.
    I agree he has little or nothing to sell. He is using his revenue projections to argue otherwise, but they are nonsense. He may be able to survive with windfall transfer profits for a while, but it's not sustainable.

    He could get lucky with Ben Garner or his successor, as Roland did, and get back in the Championship, which would help. But I still think are some very wealthy people around who may fancy a London-based club with a stadium equipped to host Premier League football and manage to sort Roland out with a deal based on the latter.

    Would Sandgaard sell to crooks? I think better of him than that, but it may depend how desperate he gets.
    At least one of those wealthy people, Barclay, could not get a sensible deal with Roland on the real estate. And others ran a mile from his valuation at the first hurdle. 
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Athletico Charlton said:
    Covered_End_Lad said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    cafcdave123 said:
    J BLOCK said:
    I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship. 

    For us to compete properly, he needs to sell. 
    to who?

    i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
    "Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?

    I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.

    The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
    When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
    Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
    How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership? 

    He doesnt really have anything to sell as he doesnt own the assets. He paid very little maybe a million max but has picked up the tab for several seasons of £8m losses. So realistically he would need to see for minimum 16m-20m to make profit unless he can convince someone to take on the accrued debt since he took over plus any other liabilities that were already in place.

    In short, no.
    Same thing.  If he got paid whatever his debt is he would simply be paying off his loans to us.

    Cafc43v3r said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    cafcdave123 said:
    J BLOCK said:
    I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship. 

    For us to compete properly, he needs to sell. 
    to who?

    i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
    "Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?

    I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.

    The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
    When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
    Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
    How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership? 
    Of course he can't.  Even if it only cost him £1 he has spent about £20 million since he bought us.

    What has he actually got to sell?
    Has he? I have not looked at the last set of accounts which may give clues but he has owned us for what, 2 years?  So let's say £8M loss per year is accurate (don't know but it is the number bandied on here) then he is £16M down.  He surely didn't buy the club for more than £1 or he is an idiot.

    Now look at player trading since he joined

    Out (fees are not disclosed but general consensus on here at the time)

    Bonne £2M
    Burstow £1.6M
    Phillips £300K
    KAG sell on £1.5M
    Pope sell on £2M
    Doughty £600K
    Davisson £50K
    Beadle £400K
    Total £8.45M

    Bought
    Schwartz £300K
    Gilbey £100K
    Washington £50K
    Kirk £500K
    Fraser £400K
    Stockley £350K
    DJ £300K
    Clare £50K
    Aneke £300K
    Total £2.35M

    Profit £6.1M

    So he may be in to the tune of £10M for now (best case for him).

    The player trading is already in the accounts.

    He said (and the last set of accounts confirm it) 8 million for each of the last two seasons and half that for this one.  That's 20 million. 
  • Todds_right_hook
    Todds_right_hook Posts: 10,889
    RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
    Todds_right_hook said:
    WhenIwasLittleBoy said:
    Shopping in Poundland, the player has had no pre season meaning it will be atleast November before he is fully up to speed, why does that player not have a club ? Does that suggest he is past his best or injury prone ? 
    How many free agents have actually turned a clubs season around ?
    Kermogant
    A clear anamoly and not a situation to model transfer strategy on. 

    There will unlikely be a Yann out there albeit some very appealing  names on the available list such as Vydra and to a lesser extent Robson Kanu
    I appreciate that to every kermogant there is a Leon best x 10. I was simply answering the question.

    I don't think we need to sign a free agent to turn our season around. I think we need a free agent to support what we have and to prevent a potential play off push falling apart.

    if and I appreciate that its a big if, we sign a free agent striker, the drop in quality from Bonne shouldn't be too much of a gap, especially for a squad player over a starter.

    robson Kanu, as long as he wanted sensible wages could be an option. Come off the bench to give the manager a different option, plus he could help develop our pool of good (but not ready) young attacking options.

    im not fussed that we didn't sign Bonne yesterday on the basis that we do bring in another body. If this is our hand until Jan, then ill be moving over to the pissed off camp very shortly.
  • cafcdave123
    cafcdave123 Posts: 11,491
    msomerton said:
    cafcdave123 said:
    J BLOCK said:
    I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship. 

    For us to compete properly, he needs to sell. 
    to who?

    i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
    are you serious about safe hands, We have an owner who cannot afford to run Charlton Athletic football club. A thing I have been saying from day 2 of his ownership.
    yeah, I do not believe we are currently in danger of going under which we were under the last set of crooks.

    I'm yet to see any evidence to the contrary.


  • Making_all_the_noise
    Making_all_the_noise Posts: 215
    Zynex traded at a high of $26 a share just two months before he bought CAFC. It was trading around $15 a share in September 2020. Now it trades at $9 a share and that is a rebound from $5 in March of this year.

    Estimates I saw valued TS' net worth at about $500m+ in Sept 2020 and now it is estimated at around $130m.

    Suddenly those £8m a season losses look pretty unsustainable.

    How much TS is willing to invest in the club will be driven by Zynex's prospects and share price. 
  • SantaClaus
    SantaClaus Posts: 7,673
    Don't give up hope, Josh Parker's still a free agent. 

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  • cafcdave123
    cafcdave123 Posts: 11,491
    SantaClaus said:
    Don't give up hope, Josh Parker's still a free agent. 
    I actually quite liked Josh Parker, i think we knew exactly what we were getting with him and he delivered exactly that
  • Todds_right_hook
    Todds_right_hook Posts: 10,889
    Possible stupid question.......

    is there an emergency loan window to replace players at the World Cup or are league 1 and 2 teams expected to just deal with players being away for a number of weeks?
  • SantaClaus
    SantaClaus Posts: 7,673
    edited September 2022
    Making_all_the_noise said:
    Zynex traded at a high of $26 a share just two months before he bought CAFC. It was trading around $15 a share in September 2020. Now it trades at $9 a share and that is a rebound from $5 in March of this year.

    Estimates I saw valued TS' net worth at about $500m+ in Sept 2020 and now it is estimated at around $130m.

    Suddenly those £8m a season losses look pretty unsustainable.

    How much TS is willing to invest in the club will be driven by Zynex's prospects and share price. 


    Just as well it's up 50% over the last 6 months.
  • king addick
    king addick Posts: 3,716
    msomerton said:
    cafcdave123 said:
    J BLOCK said:
    I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship. 

    For us to compete properly, he needs to sell. 
    to who?

    i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
    are you serious about safe hands, We have an owner who cannot afford to run Charlton Athletic football club. A thing I have been saying from day 2 of his ownership.
    Proof that he cant afford it? 
  • SteveKielyCambridge
    SteveKielyCambridge Posts: 219
    Airman Brown said:

    It’s a dynamic situation, admittedly, but generally we have lost more money in L1 than in the Championship. I don’t accept it’s either/or - there is a middle ground which Millwall have occupied quite successfully in recent years. We were relegated in 19/20 because RD starved the football side of resources.

    in any case, TS isn’t “running a tight ship” - he’s reducing crowds with unrealistic prices and removing committed staff on spurious grounds. It’s amateurish and so is his commentary on it.

    In all likelihood by dint of finances or personality, TS cannot and will not make it work. He may have done better with a more professional approach but ultimately we need to get the ground back and that will take someone with bigger pockets.
    I do not claim any great knowledge of the veracity of the research, but according to this article, Millwall were running £10million losses annually even pre-Covid, and had lost £78million in the last decade. So, if that is accurate, it rather proves the point.
    I don't necessarily disagree with you that TS has made various mistakes (often in taking the fans at their word) and, personally, I would be more cautious with price rises than he has been - although it does strike me as hilarious that the same fans who are currently in meltdown because he is not putting his hand in his pocket to buy more players, simply decide not to show up when they are asked to put their hands in their own pockets.
    The facts remain: promotion does not offer a way out of this (just larger numbers on the P&L and the same debts, if not more), a cost-of-business crisis is coming (the club's electricity bill next quarter will be eye-watering), and so clubs need to cut their costs. You can certainly argue that TS is going about it in the wrong way, but this is a process that needs to happen.
  • Athletico Charlton
    Athletico Charlton Posts: 14,289
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Athletico Charlton said:
    Covered_End_Lad said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    cafcdave123 said:
    J BLOCK said:
    I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship. 

    For us to compete properly, he needs to sell. 
    to who?

    i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
    "Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?

    I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.

    The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
    When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
    Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
    How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership? 

    He doesnt really have anything to sell as he doesnt own the assets. He paid very little maybe a million max but has picked up the tab for several seasons of £8m losses. So realistically he would need to see for minimum 16m-20m to make profit unless he can convince someone to take on the accrued debt since he took over plus any other liabilities that were already in place.

    In short, no.
    Same thing.  If he got paid whatever his debt is he would simply be paying off his loans to us.

    Cafc43v3r said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    cafcdave123 said:
    J BLOCK said:
    I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship. 

    For us to compete properly, he needs to sell. 
    to who?

    i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
    "Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?

    I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.

    The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
    When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
    Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
    How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership? 
    Of course he can't.  Even if it only cost him £1 he has spent about £20 million since he bought us.

    What has he actually got to sell?
    Has he? I have not looked at the last set of accounts which may give clues but he has owned us for what, 2 years?  So let's say £8M loss per year is accurate (don't know but it is the number bandied on here) then he is £16M down.  He surely didn't buy the club for more than £1 or he is an idiot.

    Now look at player trading since he joined

    Out (fees are not disclosed but general consensus on here at the time)

    Bonne £2M
    Burstow £1.6M
    Phillips £300K
    KAG sell on £1.5M
    Pope sell on £2M
    Doughty £600K
    Davisson £50K
    Beadle £400K
    Total £8.45M

    Bought
    Schwartz £300K
    Gilbey £100K
    Washington £50K
    Kirk £500K
    Fraser £400K
    Stockley £350K
    DJ £300K
    Clare £50K
    Aneke £300K
    Total £2.35M

    Profit £6.1M

    So he may be in to the tune of £10M for now (best case for him).

    The player trading is already in the accounts.

    He said (and the last set of accounts confirm it) 8 million for each of the last two seasons and half that for this one.  That's 20 million. 
    If it is in the accounts fair enough. But I don't put a lot of store in what he says anymore!
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Athletico Charlton said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Athletico Charlton said:
    Covered_End_Lad said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    cafcdave123 said:
    J BLOCK said:
    I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship. 

    For us to compete properly, he needs to sell. 
    to who?

    i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
    "Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?

    I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.

    The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
    When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
    Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
    How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership? 

    He doesnt really have anything to sell as he doesnt own the assets. He paid very little maybe a million max but has picked up the tab for several seasons of £8m losses. So realistically he would need to see for minimum 16m-20m to make profit unless he can convince someone to take on the accrued debt since he took over plus any other liabilities that were already in place.

    In short, no.
    Same thing.  If he got paid whatever his debt is he would simply be paying off his loans to us.

    Cafc43v3r said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Airman Brown said:
    cafcdave123 said:
    J BLOCK said:
    I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship. 

    For us to compete properly, he needs to sell. 
    to who?

    i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
    "Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?

    I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.

    The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
    When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
    Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
    How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership? 
    Of course he can't.  Even if it only cost him £1 he has spent about £20 million since he bought us.

    What has he actually got to sell?
    Has he? I have not looked at the last set of accounts which may give clues but he has owned us for what, 2 years?  So let's say £8M loss per year is accurate (don't know but it is the number bandied on here) then he is £16M down.  He surely didn't buy the club for more than £1 or he is an idiot.

    Now look at player trading since he joined

    Out (fees are not disclosed but general consensus on here at the time)

    Bonne £2M
    Burstow £1.6M
    Phillips £300K
    KAG sell on £1.5M
    Pope sell on £2M
    Doughty £600K
    Davisson £50K
    Beadle £400K
    Total £8.45M

    Bought
    Schwartz £300K
    Gilbey £100K
    Washington £50K
    Kirk £500K
    Fraser £400K
    Stockley £350K
    DJ £300K
    Clare £50K
    Aneke £300K
    Total £2.35M

    Profit £6.1M

    So he may be in to the tune of £10M for now (best case for him).

    The player trading is already in the accounts.

    He said (and the last set of accounts confirm it) 8 million for each of the last two seasons and half that for this one.  That's 20 million. 
    If it is in the accounts fair enough. But I don't put a lot of store in what he says anymore!
    The 2021 accounts show a "profit on player disposal" of about 5 million.  Which I am guessing is KAG sell on, Phillips, Bonne, Doughty and I think we got a small fee for Williams. 
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,931
    edited September 2022
    And the accounting loss isn't the same as the cash flow loss either, as player transfer fees are spread over their contract.

    Besides, if we're going for Cat 1, the academy will cost us more money to run, and it's a bit unfair to "blame" the first team for it, and cut its budget accordingly
  • msomerton
    msomerton Posts: 2,988
    king addick said:
    msomerton said:
    cafcdave123 said:
    J BLOCK said:
    I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship. 

    For us to compete properly, he needs to sell. 
    to who?

    i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
    are you serious about safe hands, We have an owner who cannot afford to run Charlton Athletic football club. A thing I have been saying from day 2 of his ownership.
    Proof that he cant afford it? 
    Proof, no fees paid for any new players coming in. now looking at the out of contract market for has been players. a massive cut back in support staff over the last two years and now a 15 to 20% hike in ticket prices and that done before the energy crises.
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,693
    Players like Robson Kanu & Vydra (who were playing for Premier League/high end Championship clubs) are not going to resettle in London for £3k-£5k per week.  Not on your nelly. 

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