I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
"Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?
I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.
The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership?
He doesnt really have anything to sell as he doesnt own the assets. He paid very little maybe a million max but has picked up the tab for several seasons of £8m losses. So realistically he would need to see for minimum 16m-20m to make profit unless he can convince someone to take on the accrued debt since he took over plus any other liabilities that were already in place.
In short, no.
Same thing. If he got paid whatever his debt is he would simply be paying off his loans to us.
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
"Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?
I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.
The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership?
Of course he can't. Even if it only cost him £1 he has spent about £20 million since he bought us.
What has he actually got to sell?
Has he? I have not looked at the last set of accounts which may give clues but he has owned us for what, 2 years? So let's say £8M loss per year is accurate (don't know but it is the number bandied on here) then he is £16M down. He surely didn't buy the club for more than £1 or he is an idiot.
Now look at player trading since he joined
Out (fees are not disclosed but general consensus on here at the time)
Bonne £2M Burstow £1.6M
Phillips £300K KAG sell on £1.5M
Pope sell on £2M Doughty £600K Davisson £50K Beadle £400K Total £8.45M
Bought
Schwartz £300K Gilbey £100K
Washington £50K
Kirk £500K
Fraser £400K
Stockley £350K
DJ £300K
Clare £50K
Aneke £300K Total £2.35M
Profit £6.1M
So he may be in to the tune of £10M for now (best case for him).
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
"Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?
I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.
The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership?
He doesnt really have anything to sell as he doesnt own the assets. He paid very little maybe a million max but has picked up the tab for several seasons of £8m losses. So realistically he would need to see for minimum 16m-20m to make profit unless he can convince someone to take on the accrued debt since he took over plus any other liabilities that were already in place.
In short, no.
Agree - he won't recover his losses that he knew he wasn't getting into. It depends when he gets bored of the new hobby I suppose.
He can’t break even in league one. That’s fantasy. I’m not sure he’s prepared to fund us at £8 million a season for too much longer. Already he’s tightening his belt but there aren’t many notches left. Can’t see promotion this season and if we don’t make it next season, then I don’t see him hanging around much longer.
He is already in a position where he is trying to cut his losses, not invest for the future. My guess he wants to hang on until he can find a buyer. He won't get his losses back in any scenario while we re a Div 3 club. But I guess he does not want to gamble on spending the money needed to get promotion.
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
are you serious about safe hands, We have an owner who cannot afford to run Charlton Athletic football club. A thing I have been saying from day 2 of his ownership.
Isn't there anybody on here who knows the identity of the 'striker' we missed out on?
I was thinking about that - guessing the medical wasn't undertaken at Sparrows Lane or was done under the cover of darkness ??...?? Anyway, i'm done with this window now and there is nothing left to do than support the team - as i've said before, the only way any of us can actually do something tangible to help get what we want is paying your money and opening your lungs at matches - whinging on and on on a message board about what should or shouldn't be happening and actually contributing naff all youself - well, that register will be in the next edition of News Shopper !!
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
"Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?
I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.
The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership?
He doesnt really have anything to sell as he doesnt own the assets. He paid very little maybe a million max but has picked up the tab for several seasons of £8m losses. So realistically he would need to see for minimum 16m-20m to make profit unless he can convince someone to take on the accrued debt since he took over plus any other liabilities that were already in place.
In short, no.
Same thing. If he got paid whatever his debt is he would simply be paying off his loans to us.
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
"Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?
I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.
The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership?
Of course he can't. Even if it only cost him £1 he has spent about £20 million since he bought us.
What has he actually got to sell?
Has he? I have not looked at the last set of accounts which may give clues but he owned us for what, 2 years? So let's say £8M loss per year is accurate (don't know but it is the number bandied on here) then he is £16M down. He surely didn't buy the club for more than £1 or he is an idiot.
Now look at player trading since he joined
Out (fees are not disclosed but general consensus on here at the time)
Bonne £2M Burstow £1.6M
Phillips £300K KAG sell on £1.5M
Pope sell on £2M Doughty £600K Davisson £50K Beadle £400K Total £8.45M
Bought
Schwartz £300K Gilbey £100K
Washington £50K
Kirk £500K
Fraser £400K
Stockley £350K
DJ £300K
Clare £50K
Aneke £300K Total £2.35M
Profit £6.1M
So he may we'll be in to the tune of £10M for now.
You could also make a case that the club's losses are denominated in £ but TS fortune is in all likelihood denominated in $. The recent exchange rate movements have therefore wiped out 10-15% of those losses from his perspective.
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
"Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?
I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.
The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
I agree that Sandgaard has completely underestimated the task and and is making it up as he goes along, but what has Sandgaard got to sell bar a failing football club.
If someone buys duchatalet out, I can't see it being easy to do with the madness of him and even someone with serious wealth in the billions would have find it hard negotiating it with him or even contacting him.
Which is why I think were more likely to end up with crooks.
I agree he has little or nothing to sell. He is using his revenue projections to argue otherwise, but they are nonsense. He may be able to survive with windfall transfer profits for a while, but it's not sustainable.
He could get lucky with Ben Garner or his successor, as Roland did, and get back in the Championship, which would help. But I still think are some very wealthy people around who may fancy a London-based club with a stadium equipped to host Premier League football and manage to sort Roland out with a deal based on the latter.
Would Sandgaard sell to crooks? I think better of him than that, but it may depend how desperate he gets.
At least one of those wealthy people, Barclay, could not get a sensible deal with Roland on the real estate. And others ran a mile from his valuation at the first hurdle.
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
"Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?
I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.
The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership?
He doesnt really have anything to sell as he doesnt own the assets. He paid very little maybe a million max but has picked up the tab for several seasons of £8m losses. So realistically he would need to see for minimum 16m-20m to make profit unless he can convince someone to take on the accrued debt since he took over plus any other liabilities that were already in place.
In short, no.
Same thing. If he got paid whatever his debt is he would simply be paying off his loans to us.
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
"Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?
I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.
The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership?
Of course he can't. Even if it only cost him £1 he has spent about £20 million since he bought us.
What has he actually got to sell?
Has he? I have not looked at the last set of accounts which may give clues but he has owned us for what, 2 years? So let's say £8M loss per year is accurate (don't know but it is the number bandied on here) then he is £16M down. He surely didn't buy the club for more than £1 or he is an idiot.
Now look at player trading since he joined
Out (fees are not disclosed but general consensus on here at the time)
Bonne £2M Burstow £1.6M
Phillips £300K KAG sell on £1.5M
Pope sell on £2M Doughty £600K Davisson £50K Beadle £400K Total £8.45M
Bought
Schwartz £300K Gilbey £100K
Washington £50K
Kirk £500K
Fraser £400K
Stockley £350K
DJ £300K
Clare £50K
Aneke £300K Total £2.35M
Profit £6.1M
So he may be in to the tune of £10M for now (best case for him).
The player trading is already in the accounts.
He said (and the last set of accounts confirm it) 8 million for each of the last two seasons and half that for this one. That's 20 million.
Shopping in Poundland, the player has had no pre season meaning it will be atleast November before he is fully up to speed, why does that player not have a club ? Does that suggest he is past his best or injury prone ? How many free agents have actually turned a clubs season around ?
Kermogant
A clear anamoly and not a situation to model transfer strategy on.
There will unlikely be a Yann out there albeit some very appealing names on the available list such as Vydra and to a lesser extent Robson Kanu
I appreciate that to every kermogant there is a Leon best x 10. I was simply answering the question.
I don't think we need to sign a free agent to turn our season around. I think we need a free agent to support what we have and to prevent a potential play off push falling apart.
if and I appreciate that its a big if, we sign a free agent striker, the drop in quality from Bonne shouldn't be too much of a gap, especially for a squad player over a starter.
robson Kanu, as long as he wanted sensible wages could be an option. Come off the bench to give the manager a different option, plus he could help develop our pool of good (but not ready) young attacking options.
im not fussed that we didn't sign Bonne yesterday on the basis that we do bring in another body. If this is our hand until Jan, then ill be moving over to the pissed off camp very shortly.
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
are you serious about safe hands, We have an owner who cannot afford to run Charlton Athletic football club. A thing I have been saying from day 2 of his ownership.
yeah, I do not believe we are currently in danger of going under which we were under the last set of crooks.
Zynex traded at a high of $26 a share just two months before he bought CAFC. It was trading around $15 a share in September 2020. Now it trades at $9 a share and that is a rebound from $5 in March of this year.
Estimates I saw valued TS' net worth at about $500m+ in Sept 2020 and now it is estimated at around $130m.
Suddenly those £8m a season losses look pretty unsustainable.
How much TS is willing to invest in the club will be driven by Zynex's prospects and share price.
is there an emergency loan window to replace players at the World Cup or are league 1 and 2 teams expected to just deal with players being away for a number of weeks?
Zynex traded at a high of $26 a share just two months before he bought CAFC. It was trading around $15 a share in September 2020. Now it trades at $9 a share and that is a rebound from $5 in March of this year.
Estimates I saw valued TS' net worth at about $500m+ in Sept 2020 and now it is estimated at around $130m.
Suddenly those £8m a season losses look pretty unsustainable.
How much TS is willing to invest in the club will be driven by Zynex's prospects and share price.
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
are you serious about safe hands, We have an owner who cannot afford to run Charlton Athletic football club. A thing I have been saying from day 2 of his ownership.
It’s a dynamic situation, admittedly, but generally we have lost more money in L1 than in the Championship. I don’t accept it’s either/or - there is a middle ground which Millwall have occupied quite successfully in recent years. We were relegated in 19/20 because RD starved the football side of resources.
in any case, TS isn’t “running a tight ship” - he’s reducing crowds with unrealistic prices and removing committed staff on spurious grounds. It’s amateurish and so is his commentary on it.
In all likelihood by dint of finances or personality, TS cannot and will not make it work. He may have done better with a more professional approach but ultimately we need to get the ground back and that will take someone with bigger pockets.
I do not claim any great knowledge of the veracity of the research, but according to this article, Millwall were running £10million losses annually even pre-Covid, and had lost £78million in the last decade. So, if that is accurate, it rather proves the point.
I don't necessarily disagree with you that TS has made various mistakes (often in taking the fans at their word) and, personally, I would be more cautious with price rises than he has been - although it does strike me as hilarious that the same fans who are currently in meltdown because he is not putting his hand in his pocket to buy more players, simply decide not to show up when they are asked to put their hands in their own pockets.
The facts remain: promotion does not offer a way out of this (just larger numbers on the P&L and the same debts, if not more), a cost-of-business crisis is coming (the club's electricity bill next quarter will be eye-watering), and so clubs need to cut their costs. You can certainly argue that TS is going about it in the wrong way, but this is a process that needs to happen.
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
"Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?
I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.
The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership?
He doesnt really have anything to sell as he doesnt own the assets. He paid very little maybe a million max but has picked up the tab for several seasons of £8m losses. So realistically he would need to see for minimum 16m-20m to make profit unless he can convince someone to take on the accrued debt since he took over plus any other liabilities that were already in place.
In short, no.
Same thing. If he got paid whatever his debt is he would simply be paying off his loans to us.
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
"Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?
I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.
The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership?
Of course he can't. Even if it only cost him £1 he has spent about £20 million since he bought us.
What has he actually got to sell?
Has he? I have not looked at the last set of accounts which may give clues but he has owned us for what, 2 years? So let's say £8M loss per year is accurate (don't know but it is the number bandied on here) then he is £16M down. He surely didn't buy the club for more than £1 or he is an idiot.
Now look at player trading since he joined
Out (fees are not disclosed but general consensus on here at the time)
Bonne £2M Burstow £1.6M
Phillips £300K KAG sell on £1.5M
Pope sell on £2M Doughty £600K Davisson £50K Beadle £400K Total £8.45M
Bought
Schwartz £300K Gilbey £100K
Washington £50K
Kirk £500K
Fraser £400K
Stockley £350K
DJ £300K
Clare £50K
Aneke £300K Total £2.35M
Profit £6.1M
So he may be in to the tune of £10M for now (best case for him).
The player trading is already in the accounts.
He said (and the last set of accounts confirm it) 8 million for each of the last two seasons and half that for this one. That's 20 million.
If it is in the accounts fair enough. But I don't put a lot of store in what he says anymore!
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
"Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?
I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.
The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership?
He doesnt really have anything to sell as he doesnt own the assets. He paid very little maybe a million max but has picked up the tab for several seasons of £8m losses. So realistically he would need to see for minimum 16m-20m to make profit unless he can convince someone to take on the accrued debt since he took over plus any other liabilities that were already in place.
In short, no.
Same thing. If he got paid whatever his debt is he would simply be paying off his loans to us.
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
"Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?
I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.
The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
When the club included The Valley and Sparrows I always thought Charlton as an extremely good club for someone to buy given its history, stadium and location. All this has now gone. Who in their right mind would look at us as an attractive proposition? Unless Thomas changes tack, that’s if he can then I fear we’re doomed to third tier football for a good while or get very lucky.
Someone with a lot of money, hopefully. If you can be confident of getting into the Premier League then RD isn't such a factor.
How much did TS spend in purchasing the club ? What’s he spent ? Can he realistically get his money back even after such a short period of ownership?
Of course he can't. Even if it only cost him £1 he has spent about £20 million since he bought us.
What has he actually got to sell?
Has he? I have not looked at the last set of accounts which may give clues but he has owned us for what, 2 years? So let's say £8M loss per year is accurate (don't know but it is the number bandied on here) then he is £16M down. He surely didn't buy the club for more than £1 or he is an idiot.
Now look at player trading since he joined
Out (fees are not disclosed but general consensus on here at the time)
Bonne £2M Burstow £1.6M
Phillips £300K KAG sell on £1.5M
Pope sell on £2M Doughty £600K Davisson £50K Beadle £400K Total £8.45M
Bought
Schwartz £300K Gilbey £100K
Washington £50K
Kirk £500K
Fraser £400K
Stockley £350K
DJ £300K
Clare £50K
Aneke £300K Total £2.35M
Profit £6.1M
So he may be in to the tune of £10M for now (best case for him).
The player trading is already in the accounts.
He said (and the last set of accounts confirm it) 8 million for each of the last two seasons and half that for this one. That's 20 million.
If it is in the accounts fair enough. But I don't put a lot of store in what he says anymore!
The 2021 accounts show a "profit on player disposal" of about 5 million. Which I am guessing is KAG sell on, Phillips, Bonne, Doughty and I think we got a small fee for Williams.
And the accounting loss isn't the same as the cash flow loss either, as player transfer fees are spread over their contract.
Besides, if we're going for Cat 1, the academy will cost us more money to run, and it's a bit unfair to "blame" the first team for it, and cut its budget accordingly
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
are you serious about safe hands, We have an owner who cannot afford to run Charlton Athletic football club. A thing I have been saying from day 2 of his ownership.
Proof that he cant afford it?
Proof, no fees paid for any new players coming in. now looking at the out of contract market for has been players. a massive cut back in support staff over the last two years and now a 15 to 20% hike in ticket prices and that done before the energy crises.
Players like Robson Kanu & Vydra (who were playing for Premier League/high end Championship clubs) are not going to resettle in London for £3k-£5k per week. Not on your nelly.
It’s a dynamic situation, admittedly, but generally we have lost more money in L1 than in the Championship. I don’t accept it’s either/or - there is a middle ground which Millwall have occupied quite successfully in recent years. We were relegated in 19/20 because RD starved the football side of resources.
in any case, TS isn’t “running a tight ship” - he’s reducing crowds with unrealistic prices and removing committed staff on spurious grounds. It’s amateurish and so is his commentary on it.
In all likelihood by dint of finances or personality, TS cannot and will not make it work. He may have done better with a more professional approach but ultimately we need to get the ground back and that will take someone with bigger pockets.
I do not claim any great knowledge of the veracity of the research, but according to this article, Millwall were running £10million losses annually even pre-Covid, and had lost £78million in the last decade. So, if that is accurate, it rather proves the point.
I don't necessarily disagree with you that TS has made various mistakes (often in taking the fans at their word) and, personally, I would be more cautious with price rises than he has been - although it does strike me as hilarious that the same fans who are currently in meltdown because he is not putting his hand in his pocket to buy more players, simply decide not to show up when they are asked to put their hands in their own pockets.
The facts remain: promotion does not offer a way out of this (just larger numbers on the P&L and the same debts, if not more), a cost-of-business crisis is coming (the club's electricity bill next quarter will be eye-watering), and so clubs need to cut their costs. You can certainly argue that TS is going about it in the wrong way, but this is a process that needs to happen.
If they are skint or have moved away or whatever, fine, but if they have chosen just to pack it in until we get better or feel this 'pub league' is below them, then that is not fine in my book if they continue to bang on and on about what should be done - they have every right to stop going but lose the right to expect anything and quite frankly, should belt up.
Players like Robson Kanu & Vydra (who were playing for Premier League/high end Championship clubs) are not going to resettle in London for £3k-£5k per week. Not on your nelly.
I agree that they wouldn't join us and not sure we'd want them but 3-5k per week is more than they're getting now.
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
are you serious about safe hands, We have an owner who cannot afford to run Charlton Athletic football club. A thing I have been saying from day 2 of his ownership.
Proof that he cant afford it?
Proof, no fees paid for any new players coming in. now looking at the out of contract market for has been players. a massive cut back in support staff over the last two years and now a 15 to 20% hike in ticket prices and that done before the energy crises.
We have paid for players since he has been in charge and whether we like it or not, staff redundancies happen in every day business and ticket prices do tend to go up.
Personally, I dont like either of the last 2 especially the price hikes but it still isnt proof he doesnt have the funds.
Players like Robson Kanu & Vydra (who were playing for Premier League/high end Championship clubs) are not going to resettle in London for £3k-£5k per week. Not on your nelly.
I think a player who has been earning £500k/year for 5-10 years could probably resettle in London on £150k/year.
Players like Robson Kanu & Vydra (who were playing for Premier League/high end Championship clubs) are not going to resettle in London for £3k-£5k per week. Not on your nelly.
I agree that they wouldn't join us and not sure we'd want them but 3-5k per week is more than they're getting now.
Unless they really love playing football, they've made enough from the game not to bother with 3-5k per week before tax IMO
Players like Robson Kanu & Vydra (who were playing for Premier League/high end Championship clubs) are not going to resettle in London for £3k-£5k per week. Not on your nelly.
I agree that they wouldn't join us and not sure we'd want them but 3-5k per week is more than they're getting now.
Unless they really love playing football, they've made enough from the game not to bother with 3-5k per week before tax IMO
If that's the case then maybe they should think about retiring, both have lived and played in the south east so a chance they still have property or contacts. But it doesn't matter as I'm sure we're not interested in either one anyway.
Let's face it, whatever we pick up from the bargain bucket of freebies will come under one of two headings.. 1; Will need to monitor their minutes scenario.. 2; Not up to match speed for a few weeks.. So whoever it is or may be, we ain't gonna get a match winner from the off are we so another go on the merry go round it is until January and we can all start again..
I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
"Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?
I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.
The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
There are three types of fan at the moment and I will rank them in order of importance to the future of the club. I have held this view for quite some time but appreciate it is not a popular one. I shall start with the least important fans. These are the ones that are Charlton through and through and would watch us every week in the national league. They would be the most important if there was enough of them but there isn't and as they will eat whatever shit they are given, why bother giving them anything decent.
Then you have the next most important. Charlton fans who may be a bit disillusioned in recent years and are no longer season ticket holders and um and ah about whether to attend a game or not. They are and always will be Charlton fans though. They are the next most important as they can make the crowds and revenues more decent but probably not enough ultimately. You can of course take a leaf out of a certain poster's book and call them all traitors and you know whats but that won't get them back. Good winning football and optimism for the future after so many knock backs will do that.
Then you have the most important fans of all. These are potential and fickle fans who need persuading Charlton is their club. The demographics in our catchment area is a positive and suggests there is something to unlock, but you need a key to unlock it. And a plan.
Of course this isn't fair on the true die hard fans but it that doesn't make it untrue IMO. There will always be a few thousand turning up and watching us play Barnet in the National League. But the club has to grow, not shrink. It is already in a place where it is too big to be viable and it either has to get out of that place or shrink appropriately. Which it is gradually doing from what I can see.
I wish you would shut up. You claim to be more important to the club than me because I buy a S/T and attend all the games and you don't.
Comments
Has he? I have not looked at the last set of accounts which may give clues but he has owned us for what, 2 years? So let's say £8M loss per year is accurate (don't know but it is the number bandied on here) then he is £16M down. He surely didn't buy the club for more than £1 or he is an idiot.
Now look at player trading since he joined
Out (fees are not disclosed but general consensus on here at the time)
Burstow £1.6M
KAG sell on £1.5M
Doughty £600K
Davisson £50K
Beadle £400K
Total £8.45M
Bought
Gilbey £100K
Total £2.35M
Profit £6.1M
So he may be in to the tune of £10M for now (best case for him).
He said (and the last set of accounts confirm it) 8 million for each of the last two seasons and half that for this one. That's 20 million.
I don't think we need to sign a free agent to turn our season around. I think we need a free agent to support what we have and to prevent a potential play off push falling apart.
if and I appreciate that its a big if, we sign a free agent striker, the drop in quality from Bonne shouldn't be too much of a gap, especially for a squad player over a starter.
robson Kanu, as long as he wanted sensible wages could be an option. Come off the bench to give the manager a different option, plus he could help develop our pool of good (but not ready) young attacking options.
im not fussed that we didn't sign Bonne yesterday on the basis that we do bring in another body. If this is our hand until Jan, then ill be moving over to the pissed off camp very shortly.
I'm yet to see any evidence to the contrary.
Estimates I saw valued TS' net worth at about $500m+ in Sept 2020 and now it is estimated at around $130m.
Suddenly those £8m a season losses look pretty unsustainable.
How much TS is willing to invest in the club will be driven by Zynex's prospects and share price.
is there an emergency loan window to replace players at the World Cup or are league 1 and 2 teams expected to just deal with players being away for a number of weeks?
Just as well it's up 50% over the last 6 months.
Besides, if we're going for Cat 1, the academy will cost us more money to run, and it's a bit unfair to "blame" the first team for it, and cut its budget accordingly
Personally, I dont like either of the last 2 especially the price hikes but it still isnt proof he doesnt have the funds.
But it doesn't matter as I'm sure we're not interested in either one anyway.
1; Will need to monitor their minutes scenario..
2; Not up to match speed for a few weeks..
So whoever it is or may be, we ain't gonna get a match winner from the off are we so another go on the merry go round it is until January and we can all start again..
You claim to be more important to the club than me because I buy a S/T and attend all the games and you don't.