I've always back Sandgaard, but the end of this window has done me. He hasn't got the resources, god knows what would happen if we got to the championship.
For us to compete properly, he needs to sell.
to who?
i think we are at least in a safe pair of hands with TS at the moment.
"Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?
I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.
The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
I agree that Sandgaard has completely underestimated the task and and is making it up as he goes along, but what has Sandgaard got to sell bar a failing football club.
If someone buys duchatalet out, I can't see it being easy to do with the madness of him and even someone with serious wealth in the billions would have find it hard negotiating it with him or even contacting him.
Which is why I think were more likely to end up with crooks.
I agree he has little or nothing to sell. He is using his revenue projections to argue otherwise, but they are nonsense. He may be able to survive with windfall transfer profits for a while, but it's not sustainable.
He could get lucky with Ben Garner or his successor, as Roland did, and get back in the Championship, which would help. But I still think are some very wealthy people around who may fancy a London-based club with a stadium equipped to host Premier League football and manage to sort Roland out with a deal based on the latter.
Would Sandgaard sell to crooks? I think better of him than that, but it may depend how desperate he gets.
Do you think TS might start thinking of selling if we fail to get out of L1 this season?
Looking at the freebies list, Sam Winnall looks the best option, seems to win a lot of headers for a guy who is 5'9". Obviously this video is a few years old, so no idea what the ravages of time have done, but he's only 31 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rsFo6HwDbw
Obviously there probably will be players released over the next few days, now the window has closed that's the only way to get them off the books
Interesting from BG when he said it’s going to take another two windows to get the squad the way we want it to look with the style of play we want to play
In its self that isn't a problem is it? It's actually quite understandable and I actually think if that had been the message since May I think there would be less anger now.
But if you marry that to Thomas's claim to half the losses this season and eliminate them next season it doesn't add up.
By my maths we need to find 12 million in revenue and/or savings over a 2 year period. Personally I think that's impossible, especially as at the same time of actually improving the first team.
Reports of Chucks at david Lloyd hobbling about like an old man - my mate nearly had to help him get into his car - TS has shot himself in the foot massively here not bringing in a mobile striker - i will get behind the team regardless but TS is going on the offenders regsiter and i'm weighing up whether Garner does - he may just geta reprieve on the basis that he may have found himself in a scott parker situation
"Safe" in what sense? I think too many people believe what he says when he talks about breaking even. Nobody with any understanding of the club's finances thinks that is remotely achievable year on year. In fact, you don't even need to understand the finances - his five-year ambition, his predictions last season, his idea that he can fill The Valley in L1, his claim that he was about to achieve Category One status, the due diligence he claimed to have done on the NFT sponsor, have all been exposed. Why would anyone believe his latest line?
I would agree that Sandgaard is an upgrade on ESI and Duchatelet, has some positive personal qualities, and that the team is more interesting to watch and likely to do better than last season, but there is a big hole in the project and it is his credibility. It isn't going to work financially and for that reason the club is far from "safe", albeit it's a slow motion car crash this time.
The end game will be someone buying Duchatelet out, in my opinion. It won't be Thomas.
Surely 'safe' in footballing terms will always be a comparative term. Will we break even? No, because no clubs in the Championship of League One do (until the revolution which must eventually come). But can a club be given an overall navigating direction, and can it significantly cut its losses with a keen focus on what a club like ours actually needs to succeed? Yes, it can.
I think we're back in the "believing what he tells us" problem. He isn't going to "significantly cut its losses" and stabilise it in L1. If he "significantly cuts its losses" he'll more likely end up getting relegated.
Yes, there is the Pope money, the Burstow money and maybe the Leaburn money and the Henry money to come. That's not operating income it's asset sales, but it will mean he has to put less in himself in the short term. Yes, you might be able to squeeze a little bit more commercial income out, but the key thing in L1 is ticket revenue. His prices are emptying The Valley, not filling it. That is not a prudent direction and it assumes a cheaper team can also overcome the pricing disincentive (in a cost of living crisis).
He shot himself in the foot the minute he bought him and offered him a long contract. Who was responsible for that? Most fans expected this to happen at the time. It was a case of do they know something we don't. They must do. Turns out they didn't. Last year Sandgaard was willing to waste money this year he can't make essential purchases.
Buy an expensive car but don't bother with a spare tyre or breakdown cover as they cost a lot and you might not need them.
Yet again Sandgaard over promises and under delivers.
And I don't just mean Thomas.
Martin was telling all and sundry, it seems, on Wednesday night about McG turning down a move to Wrexham and that Clare was available for £2m plus we were after this and that. Did he learn nothing from the Washington fiasco?
Meanwhile, Thomas was giving unnecessary updates on the OS before the window had closed.
Yes, deals fall through, yes, every team's fans (bar Forest) always want one more signing than they get but while this is a decent squad and can, bar the injuries already plaguing it, compete it has obvious weaknesses, acknowledged by TS in his latest vanity statement, that haven't been addressed.
The whole break even mantra is nonsense as it's based as much on increasing income as reducing costs but the club just lost its third biggest sponsor (Sandgaard’s words) in Robots DAO, an ill thought out and damaging deal that smacked of desperation and lack of diligence anyway.
Fill the Valley. Admirable but unrealistic especially given the ticket prices so that just leaves cuts in spending.
And the only place where significant savings can be made, because it is by far the biggest area of spending, is player costs.
And if you cut player spending then you end up with a half decent squad but without experienced cover up front or on one side of defence relying on very promising but as yet untested kids to fill the gaps.
Which is where we are, sadly but unnecessarily, now.
Supporting Charlton has rarely been easy and this is not the worst team or the worst situation even in this century but it is still bloody depressing when you realise how close we could be with just a little less conversation and a little more, positive, action, please.
Will someone give Henry a Promote for this Post; Concise with Clarity.
"Yet again Sandgaard over promises and under delivers. And I don't just mean Thomas"
Shopping in Poundland, the player has had no pre season meaning it will be atleast November before he is fully up to speed, why does that player not have a club ? Does that suggest he is past his best or injury prone ? How many free agents have actually turned a clubs season around ?
In that interview, Gallen says that he had already been in contact with free agents, and seeing that we didn't seem to be desperately trying to bring in a centre back yesterday evening, I imagine that he's more optimistic of getting a centre back that way.
Ryan Bennett's contract at Swansea was cancelled yesterday, so he presumably has something lined up, and I imagine Swansea are more likely to do that if it isn't a Championship club he's going to.
In that interview, Gallen says that he had already been in contact with free agents, and seeing that we didn't seem to be desperately trying to bring in a centre back yesterday evening, I imagine that he's more optimistic of getting a centre back that way.
Ryan Bennett's contract at Swansea was cancelled yesterday, so we presumably has something lined up, and I imagine Swansea are more likely to do that if it isn't a Championship club he's going to.
Was told there someone training with the club .. can’t say if it’s just to keep fit or actually looking to gain a contract
Shopping in Poundland, the player has had no pre season meaning it will be atleast November before he is fully up to speed, why does that player not have a club ? Does that suggest he is past his best or injury prone ? How many free agents have actually turned a clubs season around ?
Players who don’t have a team in September are normally one (or more) of three things:
a) rubbish b) injury prone c) possessed of unrealistic salary expectations
We’ll probably end up with someone who is at least the first two!
In that interview, Gallen says that he had already been in contact with free agents, and seeing that we didn't seem to be desperately trying to bring in a centre back yesterday evening, I imagine that he's more optimistic of getting a centre back that way.
Ryan Bennett's contract at Swansea was cancelled yesterday, so we presumably has something lined up, and I imagine Swansea are more likely to do that if it isn't a Championship club he's going to.
Was told there someone training with the club .. can’t say if it’s just to keep fit or actually looking to gain a contract
Terrell Thomas isn’t it? Been mentioned on here already.
In that interview, Gallen says that he had already been in contact with free agents, and seeing that we didn't seem to be desperately trying to bring in a centre back yesterday evening, I imagine that he's more optimistic of getting a centre back that way.
Ryan Bennett's contract at Swansea was cancelled yesterday, so we presumably has something lined up, and I imagine Swansea are more likely to do that if it isn't a Championship club he's going to.
I thought the same. All the focus was on a striker yesterday, so maybe a free agent centre back is already lined up
In that interview, Gallen says that he had already been in contact with free agents, and seeing that we didn't seem to be desperately trying to bring in a centre back yesterday evening, I imagine that he's more optimistic of getting a centre back that way.
Ryan Bennett's contract at Swansea was cancelled yesterday, so we presumably has something lined up, and I imagine Swansea are more likely to do that if it isn't a Championship club he's going to.
In that interview, Gallen says that he had already been in contact with free agents, and seeing that we didn't seem to be desperately trying to bring in a centre back yesterday evening, I imagine that he's more optimistic of getting a centre back that way.
Ryan Bennett's contract at Swansea was cancelled yesterday, so we presumably has something lined up, and I imagine Swansea are more likely to do that if it isn't a Championship club he's going to.
Get your business done early, so last minute plugs being pulled can be avoided.
Careful Golfie gets dogs abuse when he says this however it is 100% correct
Right lets sort this out once and for all.
Going through current table order, let's see how many League One clubs brought in players on the last day. Caveat I can't be bothered to look too extensively so might miss out players, and this of course won't include players who signed late in the window or on the 31st August, like Owen Beck did for Bolton.
Portsmoth: Josh Koroma (1) Ipswich Town: Gassan Ahadme and Panutche Camara (2) Sheffield Wednesday: (0) Peterborough: Kell Watts (1) Plymouth: Sam Cosgrove (1) Derby: William Osulu (1) Cambridge: (0) Charlton: (0) Exeter City: Harry Smith (1) Bolton: (0) Accrington Stanley: Bailey Sloane (1) Wycombe: (0) MK Dones: (0) Fleetwood: Admiral Muskwe and Lewis Warrington (2) Bristol: Josh Coburn, Bobby Thomas and Syl Jasper (3) Barnsley: Adam Phillips and Tom Edwards (2) Oxford: Djavan Anderson (1) Lincoln: Matty Virture (1) Port Vale: Liam McCaarron, Dennis Politic and Danny Butterworth (3) Shrewbury: Carl Winchester, Chris Saydee and Rob Street (3) Cheltenham: Ryan Broom and James Olayinka (2) Forest Green: Bryan Fibema and Christian Marques (2) Morecambe: Liam Shaw (1) Burton: Elliot Thorpe (1)
So the majority of League One teams were clearly looking to bring in 1 or 2 players on the final day like us.
Let's please stop this get your business down early fallacy. It does not happen and is not a thing.
Supposedly Tarell thomas is training with us. former academy CB
He had a strange season last year, joined Crewe last summer on a one year deal, released by mutual consent in January, joined Reading in March, then left again at the end of the season.
Supposedly Tarell thomas is training with us. former academy CB
Wouldn't be surprised if its because he has connections here (Steve Avory) maybe - If he still lives locally then its probably just as a favour for him.
Get your business done early, so last minute plugs being pulled can be avoided.
Careful Golfie gets dogs abuse when he says this however it is 100% correct
Right lets sort this out once and for all.
Going through current table order, let's see how many League One clubs brought in players on the last day. Caveat I can't be bothered to look too extensively so might miss out players, and this of course won't include players who signed late in the window or on the 31st August, like Owen Beck did for Bolton.
Portsmoth: Josh Koroma (1) Ipswich Town: Gassan Ahadme and Panutche Camara (2) Sheffield Wednesday: (0) Peterborough: Kell Watts (1) Plymouth: Sam Cosgrove (1) Derby: William Osulu (1) Cambridge: (0) Charlton: (0) Exeter City: Harry Smith (1) Bolton: (0) Accrington Stanley: Bailey Sloane (1) Wycombe: (0) MK Dones: (0) Fleetwood: Admiral Muskwe and Lewis Warrington Bristol: Josh Coburn, Bobby Thomas and Syl Jasper (3) Barnsley: Adam Phillips and Tom Edwards (2) Oxford: Djavan Anderson (1) Lincoln: Matty Virture (1) Port Vale: Liam McCaarron, Dennis Politic and Danny Butterworth (3) Shrewbury: Carl Winchester, Chris Saydee and Rob Street (3) Cheltenham: Ryan Broom and James Olayinka (2) Forest Green: Bryan Fibema and Christian Marques (2) Morecambe: Liam Shaw (1) Burton: Elliot Thorpe (1)
So the majority of League One teams were clearly looking to bring in 1 or 2 players on the final day like us.
Let's please stop this get your business down early fallacy. It does not happen and is not a thing.
Save yourself the energy, you can’t reason with a meltdowner.
dontou believe we started our striker search yesterday morning? Do you not think we worked through a list of targets? They either moved elsewhere, cost too high, didn't want to come etc. we had a forward in the building and the parent club moved the goal post at the last minute.
with the defender, it would be interesting to see what happened there. Maybe we pulled out because the manager and coaching staff have had three months to look at ness and think he is a good back up option.
frustrating, yes. Disappointing, yes. Shambolic, definitely not
If we started the search for a forward earlier then it’s even more of a shambles.
Why does it have to be. Look I’m fully on board that it’s gone wrong and have said as much.
But let’s say we have a list:
Player A Player B Player C Player D Player E Player F
Player A is our first choice target, but we approach his team and they say he won’t be moving.
Player B is available but after a discussion with him and his agent he does not want to move because he does not want to move to uproot his young family.
Player C is available but his club will only take a fee that you think is overinflated. So it’s one you will revisit later to see if they drop their demands.
Player D is available and wants to come and has agreed everything in principle but his club will only let him go, if his club get a replacement first.
Player E has been offered by his club on loan, but at the last minute they say we can only have him if we pay a fee.
Player F is available but goes to a club in a higher division.
I expect all this and more happens when it comes to transfers. Again I’m not excusing that we didn’t sign a striker, never mind a centre back, but I do get the impression from the constant upset tone on here throughout transfer windows that people think it should just be a simple process.
Isn’t that why you have a scouting/recruitment team? So you don’t end up with a list entirely composed of unobtainable players?
How do you know they are unobtainable until you approach them though?
And even then, was Scully unobtainable, or was he obtainable until Wigan made a late bid. Do you instantly move on from a quality player you want because there may be a bidding war for him and you don't have the stomach?
Bonne was apparently obtainable but then his parent club changed the conditions last minute. Stockton may have been obtainable if Morecambe would have budged on their £650,000 asking price at the last minute.
I expect there are so many cogs to transfers that we are unaware of that it feels somewhat silly to blanketly rant about how much of a 'shambles' or 'embarrassment' it is. Disappointing and misjudged for sure, but shambles is indicative of moderns society general reaction to things that happen that they don't like.
I think we're back in the "believing what he tells us" problem. He isn't going to "significantly cut its losses" and stabilise it in L1. If he "significantly cuts its losses" he'll more likely end up getting relegated.
Yes, there is the Pope money, the Burstow money and maybe the Leaburn money and the Henry money to come. That's not operating income it's asset sales, but it will mean he has to put less in himself in the short term. Yes, you might be able to squeeze a little bit more commercial income out, but the key thing in L1 is ticket revenue. His prices are emptying The Valley, not filling it. That is not a prudent direction and it assumes a cheaper team can also overcome the pricing disincentive (in a cost of living crisis).
Not necessarily at all. Decisions like not having a CEO and sacking talented senior staff are (very reasonably) unpopular on here, but he has made a choice to drive as much limited resources to the playing staff as possible.
I don't really understand your alternative proposition: a club like Charlton, with an owner who spends relatively big money, could reasonably expect to get into the Championship, where we were would either lose even more money by spending beyond its means or else get relegated. So "investment" brings no certainty of returns big enough to compensate.
What alternative is there to running as tight a ship as possible and hoping that building over the long term, with a lot of luck, brings success?
Get your business done early, so last minute plugs being pulled can be avoided.
Careful Golfie gets dogs abuse when he says this however it is 100% correct
Right lets sort this out once and for all.
Going through current table order, let's see how many League One clubs brought in players on the last day. Caveat I can't be bothered to look too extensively so might miss out players, and this of course won't include players who signed late in the window or on the 31st August, like Owen Beck did for Bolton.
Portsmoth: Josh Koroma (1) Ipswich Town: Gassan Ahadme and Panutche Camara (2) Sheffield Wednesday: (0) Peterborough: Kell Watts (1) Plymouth: Sam Cosgrove (1) Derby: William Osulu (1) Cambridge: (0) Charlton: (0) Exeter City: Harry Smith (1) Bolton: (0) Accrington Stanley: Bailey Sloane (1) Wycombe: (0) MK Dones: (0) Fleetwood: Admiral Muskwe and Lewis Warrington (2) Bristol: Josh Coburn, Bobby Thomas and Syl Jasper (3) Barnsley: Adam Phillips and Tom Edwards (2) Oxford: Djavan Anderson (1) Lincoln: Matty Virture (1) Port Vale: Liam McCaarron, Dennis Politic and Danny Butterworth (3) Shrewbury: Carl Winchester, Chris Saydee and Rob Street (3) Cheltenham: Ryan Broom and James Olayinka (2) Forest Green: Bryan Fibema and Christian Marques (2) Morecambe: Liam Shaw (1) Burton: Elliot Thorpe (1)
So the majority of League One teams were clearly looking to bring in 1 or 2 players on the final day like us.
Let's please stop this get your business down early fallacy. It does not happen and is not a thing.
To be fair the majority of those are probably squad fillers and have no doubt been let go because the selling club are happy to see them gone
Camara from Plymouth to Ipswich is probably the exception - Even Bonne to us would have been no different.
At that late stage it was pretty clear we weren't bringing in a Striker (key word) to replace Stockley, it was compete with, or nothing... Even had we signed Scully, he himself wouldn't have been a Striker.
So won't be surprised if at some stage of the season, we see Rak-Sakyi played down the middle.
In that interview, Gallen says that he had already been in contact with free agents, and seeing that we didn't seem to be desperately trying to bring in a centre back yesterday evening, I imagine that he's more optimistic of getting a centre back that way.
Ryan Bennett's contract at Swansea was cancelled yesterday, so we presumably has something lined up, and I imagine Swansea are more likely to do that if it isn't a Championship club he's going to.
Comments
Obviously there probably will be players released over the next few days, now the window has closed that's the only way to get them off the books
But if you marry that to Thomas's claim to half the losses this season and eliminate them next season it doesn't add up.
By my maths we need to find 12 million in revenue and/or savings over a 2 year period. Personally I think that's impossible, especially as at the same time of actually improving the first team.
Yes, there is the Pope money, the Burstow money and maybe the Leaburn money and the Henry money to come. That's not operating income it's asset sales, but it will mean he has to put less in himself in the short term. Yes, you might be able to squeeze a little bit more commercial income out, but the key thing in L1 is ticket revenue. His prices are emptying The Valley, not filling it. That is not a prudent direction and it assumes a cheaper team can also overcome the pricing disincentive (in a cost of living crisis).
Will someone give Henry a Promote for this Post; Concise with Clarity.
"Yet again Sandgaard over promises and under delivers. And I don't just mean Thomas"
👏H
How many free agents have actually turned a clubs season around ?
Ryan Bennett's contract at Swansea was cancelled yesterday, so he presumably has something lined up, and I imagine Swansea are more likely to do that if it isn't a Championship club he's going to.
a) rubbish
b) injury prone
c) possessed of unrealistic salary expectations
We’ll probably end up with someone who is at least the first two!
former academy CB
Going through current table order, let's see how many League One clubs brought in players on the last day. Caveat I can't be bothered to look too extensively so might miss out players, and this of course won't include players who signed late in the window or on the 31st August, like Owen Beck did for Bolton.
Portsmoth: Josh Koroma (1)
Ipswich Town: Gassan Ahadme and Panutche Camara (2)
Sheffield Wednesday: (0)
Peterborough: Kell Watts (1)
Plymouth: Sam Cosgrove (1)
Derby: William Osulu (1)
Cambridge: (0)
Charlton: (0)
Exeter City: Harry Smith (1)
Bolton: (0)
Accrington Stanley: Bailey Sloane (1)
Wycombe: (0)
MK Dones: (0)
Fleetwood: Admiral Muskwe and Lewis Warrington (2)
Bristol: Josh Coburn, Bobby Thomas and Syl Jasper (3)
Barnsley: Adam Phillips and Tom Edwards (2)
Oxford: Djavan Anderson (1)
Lincoln: Matty Virture (1)
Port Vale: Liam McCaarron, Dennis Politic and Danny Butterworth (3)
Shrewbury: Carl Winchester, Chris Saydee and Rob Street (3)
Cheltenham: Ryan Broom and James Olayinka (2)
Forest Green: Bryan Fibema and Christian Marques (2)
Morecambe: Liam Shaw (1)
Burton: Elliot Thorpe (1)
So the majority of League One teams were clearly looking to bring in 1 or 2 players on the final day like us.
Let's please stop this get your business down early fallacy. It does not happen and is not a thing.
And even then, was Scully unobtainable, or was he obtainable until Wigan made a late bid. Do you instantly move on from a quality player you want because there may be a bidding war for him and you don't have the stomach?
Bonne was apparently obtainable but then his parent club changed the conditions last minute. Stockton may have been obtainable if Morecambe would have budged on their £650,000 asking price at the last minute.
I expect there are so many cogs to transfers that we are unaware of that it feels somewhat silly to blanketly rant about how much of a 'shambles' or 'embarrassment' it is. Disappointing and misjudged for sure, but shambles is indicative of moderns society general reaction to things that happen that they don't like.
Don't take it to heart, some posters are spoiled little brats who seem to think they've a right to criticise when stuff doesn't come off.
Camara from Plymouth to Ipswich is probably the exception - Even Bonne to us would have been no different.
At that late stage it was pretty clear we weren't bringing in a Striker (key word) to replace Stockley, it was compete with, or nothing... Even had we signed Scully, he himself wouldn't have been a Striker.
So won't be surprised if at some stage of the season, we see Rak-Sakyi played down the middle.