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Sandgaard ownership discussion 2022-3 onwards (Meeting with CAST p138)

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  • clb74
    clb74 Posts: 10,824
    blackpool72 said:
    Sandgaard has totally underestimated what it takes to get promoted. 
    I have zero sympathy for the egotistical prick as he refused to sign a CEO or listen to anyone prepared to give advice. 
    I now think he's looking to sell and the sooner the better. 
    Will be like a merry go round mate.
    Will be another owner who hasn't got a clue and we go again.
    Like groundhog day.
  • blackpool72
    blackpool72 Posts: 23,670
    clb74 said:
    blackpool72 said:
    Sandgaard has totally underestimated what it takes to get promoted. 
    I have zero sympathy for the egotistical prick as he refused to sign a CEO or listen to anyone prepared to give advice. 
    I now think he's looking to sell and the sooner the better. 
    Will be like a merry go round mate.
    Will be another owner who hasn't got a clue and we go again.
    Like groundhog day.
    The law of average says it's about time we got a good owner.
    I live in hope. 
  • SDAddick
    SDAddick Posts: 14,467
    edited September 2022
    So I'm just catching up on the last couple of days. 

    I'll be perfectly honest, I didn't believe in TS much more than I did ESI or Roland or any of the crooks who have owned or "owned" the club over the last decade. 

    This is because: why would anyone want to own a football club below the Premier League?

    It's a money loser. It requires a lot of up front investment with no guarantee or track record of return. It's a unique "business/industry." Basically, unless you need to peddle something (money, PR, influence), no sensible business person or group would buy a football club.

    And once again, here we are. TS didn't know what he was getting himself into. He thought he was smarter than everyone else and a better businessman. He wanted this to be an ego stroker for him. And then, things got hard, the ego stopped being stroked, and I imagine a disproportionate amount of his time is being spent on a business that's losing him money. It sounds like he's still invested in this (figuratively), but man does he sure like to talk about how much he has invested in this (financially). 

    This is going to keep happening. Unless there is a major restructuring of how football is run and regulated in England, this cycle is going to continue. And as we head for another recession, things will probably get worse before they get better.

    I don't know what local or national levers of power you all have, but call and write and tweet at your local counsels and MPs and whomever else. Ask them to monitor the situation, but also to reassess football more broadly. Mandate fans on boards, ideally carve out a portion of club ownership for fans, regulate and monitor club spending, tax Premier League clubs and owners and put it into a redistribution fund to the lower leagues and grassroots so you're not relying on the "generosity" of billionaires and nation states to trickle money down. As we say in US politics, fuck around and find out.

    We're not the only club who has been through this, and we won't be the last. I know it's really easy for me to suggest systemic change from 3,000 miles away. But I feel as football fans we have to start thinking big picture, not just individual clubs or even leagues. This is not a sustainable model. Things are going to change, and if people i positions of power don't act, it will be for the worse.
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,443
    SDAddick said:
    So I'm just catching up on the last couple of days. 

    I'll be perfectly honest, I didn't believe in TS much more than I did ESI or Roland or any of the crooks who have owned or "owned" the club over the last decade. 

    This is because: why would anyone want to own a football club below the Premier League?

    It's a money loser. It requires a lot of up front investment with no guarantee or track record of return. It's a unique "business/industry." Basically, unless you need to peddle something (money, PR, influence), no sensible business person or group would buy a football club.

    And once again, here we are. TS didn't know what he was getting himself into. He thought he was smarter than everyone else and a better businessman. He wanted this to be an ego stroker for him. And then, things got hard, the ego stopped being stroked, and I imagine a disproportionate amount of his time is being spent on a business that's losing him money. It sounds like he's still invested in this (figuratively), but man does he sure like to talk about how much he has invested in this (financially). 

    This is going to keep happening. Unless there is a major restructuring of how football is run and regulated in England, this cycle is going to continue. And as we head for another recession, things will probably get worse before they get better.

    I don't know what local or national levers of power you all have, but call and write and tweet at your local counsels and MPs and whomever else. Ask them to monitor the situation, but also to reassess football more broadly. Mandate fans on boards, ideally carve out a portion of club ownership for fans, regulate and monitor club spending, tax Premier League clubs and owners and put it into a redistribution fund to the lower leagues and grassroots so you're not relying on the "generosity" of billionaires and nation states to trickle money down. As we say in US politics, fuck around and find out.

    We're not the only club who has been through this, and we won't be the last. I know it's really easy for me to suggest systemic change from 3,000 miles away. But I feel as football fans we have to start thinking big picture, not just individual clubs or even leagues. This is not a sustainable model. Things are going to change, and if people i positions of power don't act, it will be for the worse.
    There is zero chance of football being run in a sensible manner in this country. That's not going to change.
  • SDAddick
    SDAddick Posts: 14,467
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
    SDAddick said:
    So I'm just catching up on the last couple of days. 

    I'll be perfectly honest, I didn't believe in TS much more than I did ESI or Roland or any of the crooks who have owned or "owned" the club over the last decade. 

    This is because: why would anyone want to own a football club below the Premier League?

    It's a money loser. It requires a lot of up front investment with no guarantee or track record of return. It's a unique "business/industry." Basically, unless you need to peddle something (money, PR, influence), no sensible business person or group would buy a football club.

    And once again, here we are. TS didn't know what he was getting himself into. He thought he was smarter than everyone else and a better businessman. He wanted this to be an ego stroker for him. And then, things got hard, the ego stopped being stroked, and I imagine a disproportionate amount of his time is being spent on a business that's losing him money. It sounds like he's still invested in this (figuratively), but man does he sure like to talk about how much he has invested in this (financially). 

    This is going to keep happening. Unless there is a major restructuring of how football is run and regulated in England, this cycle is going to continue. And as we head for another recession, things will probably get worse before they get better.

    I don't know what local or national levers of power you all have, but call and write and tweet at your local counsels and MPs and whomever else. Ask them to monitor the situation, but also to reassess football more broadly. Mandate fans on boards, ideally carve out a portion of club ownership for fans, regulate and monitor club spending, tax Premier League clubs and owners and put it into a redistribution fund to the lower leagues and grassroots so you're not relying on the "generosity" of billionaires and nation states to trickle money down. As we say in US politics, fuck around and find out.

    We're not the only club who has been through this, and we won't be the last. I know it's really easy for me to suggest systemic change from 3,000 miles away. But I feel as football fans we have to start thinking big picture, not just individual clubs or even leagues. This is not a sustainable model. Things are going to change, and if people i positions of power don't act, it will be for the worse.
    There is zero chance of football being run in a sensible manner in this country. That's not going to change.
    I know, but it's fun to dream.
  • clb74
    clb74 Posts: 10,824
    blackpool72 said:
    clb74 said:
    blackpool72 said:
    Sandgaard has totally underestimated what it takes to get promoted. 
    I have zero sympathy for the egotistical prick as he refused to sign a CEO or listen to anyone prepared to give advice. 
    I now think he's looking to sell and the sooner the better. 
    Will be like a merry go round mate.
    Will be another owner who hasn't got a clue and we go again.
    Like groundhog day.
    The law of average says it's about time we got a good owner.
    I live in hope. 
    You'll be Yodas age by the time we get a decent owner
  • clb74
    clb74 Posts: 10,824
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    se9addick said:
    Fanny Fanackapan said:
    DOUCHER said:
    just what we need - another owner v fans battle 
    No-one with any common sense wants that, Doucher.

    But none of these "problems" originated from the fans....

    People are now , rightly, concerned that there's no smoke with out fire.

    The facts aren't hidden. They're here for all to see. 
    I’m worried that this is being set up to be Charlton fans vs Roland pt. 2, just with a different antagonist. In fact, I think some people actively want it to be that. 

    I’m not at all convinced that Sandgaard’s delusions of breaking even in L1 or his particular style/approach to management are correct, but those are not enough for a full on breakdown in the relationship between owner and fans. I think the wheels are in motion however and it feels like this is only going to head in one direction. 
    I agree with your post, but Sandgaard comes out with more bull**** than me.
    I'm not having that.
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,443
    clb74 said:
    blackpool72 said:
    clb74 said:
    blackpool72 said:
    Sandgaard has totally underestimated what it takes to get promoted. 
    I have zero sympathy for the egotistical prick as he refused to sign a CEO or listen to anyone prepared to give advice. 
    I now think he's looking to sell and the sooner the better. 
    Will be like a merry go round mate.
    Will be another owner who hasn't got a clue and we go again.
    Like groundhog day.
    The law of average says it's about time we got a good owner.
    I live in hope. 
    You'll be Yodas age by the time we get a decent owner
    Having an owner with a basic understanding of football might help.
  • The Prince-e-Paul
    The Prince-e-Paul Posts: 6,688
    I'm not excusing any club owners for mismanagement, but, the cost of running a club, I.E, players salaries is crippling. A wholesale revolt against players, agents and sales fees is just not sustainable and its the fans that lose. Not just about lacking success, but by paying to watch an overpriced product is rediculous. It can only lead to ruin long term. The Premier League is to blame, just like with a house boom, even the ghettos eventually outprice the common man.

    Bad employers are bad employers and TS is being shown to be a bad one, to too many well respected and good employees. That will come home to roost in so many ways. We'll still be here. 



  • SoundAsa£
    SoundAsa£ Posts: 22,477
    Lordflashheart said:
    Not gonna quote it - but is the post by @RodneyCharltonTrotta the longest in CL history !!!

    Happy to be told of a longer one !!
    It’s right up there with the longest but I reckon Grapevine has outdone that on several occasions.
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  • Uboat
    Uboat Posts: 12,195
    clb74 said:
    blackpool72 said:
    clb74 said:
    blackpool72 said:
    Sandgaard has totally underestimated what it takes to get promoted. 
    I have zero sympathy for the egotistical prick as he refused to sign a CEO or listen to anyone prepared to give advice. 
    I now think he's looking to sell and the sooner the better. 
    Will be like a merry go round mate.
    Will be another owner who hasn't got a clue and we go again.
    Like groundhog day.
    The law of average says it's about time we got a good owner.
    I live in hope. 

    By the time he we get a decent owner Yoda’s age you will be. 

  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,314
    SDAddick said:
    So I'm just catching up on the last couple of days. 

    I'll be perfectly honest, I didn't believe in TS much more than I did ESI or Roland or any of the crooks who have owned or "owned" the club over the last decade. 

    This is because: why would anyone want to own a football club below the Premier League?

    It's a money loser. It requires a lot of up front investment with no guarantee or track record of return. It's a unique "business/industry." Basically, unless you need to peddle something (money, PR, influence), no sensible business person or group would buy a football club.

    And once again, here we are. TS didn't know what he was getting himself into. He thought he was smarter than everyone else and a better businessman. He wanted this to be an ego stroker for him. And then, things got hard, the ego stopped being stroked, and I imagine a disproportionate amount of his time is being spent on a business that's losing him money. It sounds like he's still invested in this (figuratively), but man does he sure like to talk about how much he has invested in this (financially). 

    This is going to keep happening. Unless there is a major restructuring of how football is run and regulated in England, this cycle is going to continue. And as we head for another recession, things will probably get worse before they get better.

    I don't know what local or national levers of power you all have, but call and write and tweet at your local counsels and MPs and whomever else. Ask them to monitor the situation, but also to reassess football more broadly. Mandate fans on boards, ideally carve out a portion of club ownership for fans, regulate and monitor club spending, tax Premier League clubs and owners and put it into a redistribution fund to the lower leagues and grassroots so you're not relying on the "generosity" of billionaires and nation states to trickle money down. As we say in US politics, fuck around and find out.

    We're not the only club who has been through this, and we won't be the last. I know it's really easy for me to suggest systemic change from 3,000 miles away. But I feel as football fans we have to start thinking big picture, not just individual clubs or even leagues. This is not a sustainable model. Things are going to change, and if people i positions of power don't act, it will be for the worse.
    Pin this to every thread on CL
  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 37,376
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,734
    se9addick said:
    Re the bizarre Rifkind Tweets, the “it was his personal opinion, it doesn’t reflect the views of [insert employers name]” only really works if it’s an employee saying something silly on social media about something unrelated to their employer. In this instance it was a senior staff member at the Club talking specifically about the Club’s fan base.  
    I don’t think he’s a staff member - he’s a non-exec director. I wouldn’t expect him to have any day to day role. It is very strange behaviour.
  • EugenesAxe
    EugenesAxe Posts: 3,284
    J Sandgaard???
  • EugenesAxe
    EugenesAxe Posts: 3,284

  • JohnnyH2
    JohnnyH2 Posts: 5,342
    EugenesAxe said:
    J Sandgaard???
    Jordan, the other son
  • EugenesAxe
    EugenesAxe Posts: 3,284
    JohnnyH2 said:
    EugenesAxe said:
    J Sandgaard???
    Jordan, the other son
    Why has the expression “never more than 6 feet away from a rat” jumped into my head!
  • Weegie Addick
    Weegie Addick Posts: 16,521
    JohnnyH2 said:
    EugenesAxe said:
    J Sandgaard???
    Jordan, the other son
    Believe his name is Joachim. 
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  • SDAddick
    SDAddick Posts: 14,467
    edited September 2022
    cabbles said:
    Top 4 budget apparently.  Yet we signed 3 free transfers from Swindon, 1 from Rochdale, 1 from Lincoln, 2 loans and one of out of contract last playing for Crewe?  If that’s a top 4 budget then I’ve grossly over estimated the money swimming around in football 
    Yes but it's also all of the signings before that, including Stockley and Aneke who came from the division above, Fraser, Lavelle, DJ, Kirk, Clare all signed in the last two years.

    Remember that transfer fees aren't paid as a lump sum up front, they're almost always paid over time. 

    Plus, frees will have signing on fees and bigger wages. 

    I can't verify the claim, but I could understand the maths if it were true. 

    The bigger problem is, when you look at the list of players who we've signed for fees, only Clare and Fraser are first choice. Stockley doesn't fit the system. Aneke is never fit. 

    It's not that we don't spend money, it's that, to this point under TS, we haven't spent money well. 
  • DubaiCAFC
    DubaiCAFC Posts: 2,461
    4th highest budget? Higher than last season.. I don’t understand that. Does he include the contract length and total value of the contract in to this years budget?
    or are we paying big signing on fees?
  • TEL
    TEL Posts: 10,100
    Maybe the budget is just being miss spent on inflated wages for bang average players? Just a thought.
  • Fumbluff
    Fumbluff Posts: 10,126
    JohnnyH2 said:
    EugenesAxe said:
    J Sandgaard???
    Jordan, the other son
    Don’t tell me….this one is the best goalkeeper you have never heard of, with the most powerful throw in the universe…..
  • J BLOCK
    J BLOCK Posts: 8,309
    eaststandmike said:
    Forth biggest budget in the division, laughable.
    Simply cannot be true. 
  • J BLOCK
    J BLOCK Posts: 8,309
    Athletico Charlton said:
    @NorthStandUltra

    I have been giving your question some thought and think I know the answer, it is quite simple.

    We want an owner whom is a multi billionaire whom will bank roll massive losses every year to get us back up the leagues.  But they must not buy the league and the club needs to stay sustainable and pay its own way.  The individual needs to have made their money from legitimate ways and ideally be a fan.

    They need to bring back our best ex players but not look to bring any ex players back - never go back.

    But they do need to go back and look at our history and understand it.

    They need to communicate with the fans, but not the way they may wish to, but the way the fans want them too.  Not too little, definitely not too much.

    They should accept criticism from the fans without flinching and certainly never criticise back.

    They need to keep lobbing their money in, whilst being sustainable, getting CAT A whilst breaking even, holding on to all our good young players whilst not over spending and keeping season ticket and walk up prices really low but never free and without running into debt.

    They need to bring back Varney and any other previous employees who are fans and are no longer working for us.  Pay them whatever they want as the owner is a billionaire and can afford it, but obviously don't put the club in debt and risk it's future.

    They need to buy The Valley and Sparrows for whatever RD wants, no matter the business sense in it and even if they can't contact him.

    Above all, they should understand the next 2 weeks is always crucial.

    They don't exist.
    Plot twist, they do. 
  • cabbles
    cabbles Posts: 15,255
    SDAddick said:
    cabbles said:
    Top 4 budget apparently.  Yet we signed 3 free transfers from Swindon, 1 from Rochdale, 1 from Lincoln, 2 loans and one of out of contract last playing for Crewe?  If that’s a top 4 budget then I’ve grossly over estimated the money swimming around in football 
    Yes but it's also all of the signings before that, including Stockley and Aneke who came from the division above, Fraser, Lavelle, DJ, Kirk, Clare all signed in the last two years.

    Remember that transfer fees aren't paid as a lump sum up front, they're almost always paid over time. 

    Plus, frees will have signing on fees and bigger wages. 

    I can't verify the claim, but I could understand the maths if it were true. 

    The bigger problem is, when you look at the list of players who we've signed for fees, only Clare and Fraser are first choice. Stockley doesn't fit the system. Aneke is never fit. 

    It's not that we don't spend money, it's that, to this point under TS, we haven't spent money well. 
    Good point.  I’ve always said I don’t think we can criticize TS for money spent, and we don’t have a right to expect him to spend it. To your point, I should be looking at it in terms of the spread of the fees with the above players, not this summer’s business in isolation.

    The problem is that we were woefully short last year, and I mean woefully. Masked by one or two decent wins, that bunch coughed and spluttered their way through a horrible season.  To finish where we did, playing some atrocious football, and to then do the business we’ve done in the summer, is quite baffling if you want a team capable of promotion.  That’s no disrespect to any of the new players, or Garner, it’s just a sorry state of affairs all round.

    you make a good point re: previous signings.  In TS’ defence, he couldn’t spend any money when he first took over as it was a bit too late.  He gave Bowyer the money to buy Mansfield and Stockley and Millar came in on loan.  Last summer you can’t fault him for stumping up fees for Kirk, Lavelle, Clare and Stockley, then again in Jan this year with Fraser and Aneke. As you say, we can only see Fraser and Clare playing, with Stockley unable to adapt and Aneke a stupid decision.  That’s not his fault.  

    We’re now left with what looks like an inadequate squad to get promoted, that will be mixed with a transfer policy of spending no money.  Again, no devine right to expect anything else, but it does make all the ambition, the guitar, the set up on the non footballing side, all seem a bit farcical.  

    With each interview now, I think we’re going to get more incoherent statements.  The latest one being the Portsmouth model, whatever that is.  

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