The way most of those Middle East countries have built their infrastructure etc and treat their cheap labour foreign workers is utter filth and a reason I won’t be going out there
Having supported charities that have helped migrant workers and their families come to terms with the shit they’ve been put through I’m gutted this tournament is taking place where it is .
Of course nowhere is perfect but some less so than others .
that’s my grown up piece for the year
So what is the difference between Eastern Europeans, working on the farms and factories in the UK that live in 30 year old caravans with no running water or heaters?
UK press seem to ignore that..
I am not defending the way the workers are treated here, but they are certainly looked after a lot better than you think, and they are creating a better live for their families, and have a better standard of living than they would in the countries they have been coming from. Not sure that can be said for the farm workers..
UK press seem to have away of not having all the facts in place, or printing both sides of the stories!
I thought that the workers in Qatar had no choice where they can live and have their passports taken off them, as well as a portion of their wages automatically deducted?
Unless that is all made up too?
No choice where to live: True (Most of the time its provided accommodation, as is my situation at the moment) Have passports taken: False....its actually against the law here to withold someones passport (aside from initial residency visa process). Portion of wages automatically deducted: Not normal at all....... Only reason would be if they owe a recruiter (which unfortunately would be a fellow national)
Thanks Napsy for the clarification. amazing what people believe in the British press. There are few Charlton fans heading to the England V Wales game, would be good to meet a fellow Charlton fan.
I have tickets to this match also, have to organise something pre match then.
Also regarding the beer in the stadium........I was in and around Khalifa Stadium today and can confirm that Budweiser have outlets in the stadium perimeter (after ticket check and security, before entering the actual stadium) and look to be serving Budweiser & Budweiser Zero. The outlets are away from the entrance gates so maybe this is the compromise of being slightly less visible??
The way most of those Middle East countries have built their infrastructure etc and treat their cheap labour foreign workers is utter filth and a reason I won’t be going out there
Having supported charities that have helped migrant workers and their families come to terms with the shit they’ve been put through I’m gutted this tournament is taking place where it is .
Of course nowhere is perfect but some less so than others .
that’s my grown up piece for the year
So what is the difference between Eastern Europeans, working on the farms and factories in the UK that live in 30 year old caravans with no running water or heaters?
UK press seem to ignore that..
I am not defending the way the workers are treated here, but they are certainly looked after a lot better than you think, and they are creating a better live for their families, and have a better standard of living than they would in the countries they have been coming from. Not sure that can be said for the farm workers..
UK press seem to have away of not having all the facts in place, or printing both sides of the stories!
I thought that the workers in Qatar had no choice where they can live and have their passports taken off them, as well as a portion of their wages automatically deducted?
Unless that is all made up too?
No choice where to live: True (Most of the time its provided accommodation, as is my situation at the moment) Have passports taken: False....its actually against the law here to withold someones passport (aside from initial residency visa process). Portion of wages automatically deducted: Not normal at all....... Only reason would be if they owe a recruiter (which unfortunately would be a fellow national)
That should not happen either, the companies should be the entities paying the recruiters, not the employees.
The way most of those Middle East countries have built their infrastructure etc and treat their cheap labour foreign workers is utter filth and a reason I won’t be going out there
Having supported charities that have helped migrant workers and their families come to terms with the shit they’ve been put through I’m gutted this tournament is taking place where it is .
Of course nowhere is perfect but some less so than others .
that’s my grown up piece for the year
So what is the difference between Eastern Europeans, working on the farms and factories in the UK that live in 30 year old caravans with no running water or heaters?
UK press seem to ignore that..
I am not defending the way the workers are treated here, but they are certainly looked after a lot better than you think, and they are creating a better live for their families, and have a better standard of living than they would in the countries they have been coming from. Not sure that can be said for the farm workers..
UK press seem to have away of not having all the facts in place, or printing both sides of the stories!
I thought that the workers in Qatar had no choice where they can live and have their passports taken off them, as well as a portion of their wages automatically deducted?
Unless that is all made up too?
No choice where to live: True (Most of the time its provided accommodation, as is my situation at the moment) Have passports taken: False....its actually against the law here to withold someones passport (aside from initial residency visa process). Portion of wages automatically deducted: Not normal at all....... Only reason would be if they owe a recruiter (which unfortunately would be a fellow national)
Thanks Napsy for the clarification. amazing what people believe in the British press. There are few Charlton fans heading to the England V Wales game, would be good to meet a fellow Charlton fan.
I have tickets to this match also, have to organise something pre match then.
Also regarding the beer in the stadium........I was in and around Khalifa Stadium today and can confirm that Budweiser have outlets in the stadium perimeter (after ticket check and security, before entering the actual stadium) and look to be serving Budweiser & Budweiser Zero. The outlets are away from the entrance gates so maybe this is the compromise of being slightly less visible??
Same as most stadiums at major games then.. Can we now nip the no booze in the bud now please.!
The way most of those Middle East countries have built their infrastructure etc and treat their cheap labour foreign workers is utter filth and a reason I won’t be going out there
Having supported charities that have helped migrant workers and their families come to terms with the shit they’ve been put through I’m gutted this tournament is taking place where it is .
Of course nowhere is perfect but some less so than others .
that’s my grown up piece for the year
So what is the difference between Eastern Europeans, working on the farms and factories in the UK that live in 30 year old caravans with no running water or heaters?
UK press seem to ignore that..
I am not defending the way the workers are treated here, but they are certainly looked after a lot better than you think, and they are creating a better live for their families, and have a better standard of living than they would in the countries they have been coming from. Not sure that can be said for the farm workers..
UK press seem to have away of not having all the facts in place, or printing both sides of the stories!
I thought that the workers in Qatar had no choice where they can live and have their passports taken off them, as well as a portion of their wages automatically deducted?
Unless that is all made up too?
No choice where to live: True (Most of the time its provided accommodation, as is my situation at the moment) Have passports taken: False....its actually against the law here to withold someones passport (aside from initial residency visa process). Portion of wages automatically deducted: Not normal at all....... Only reason would be if they owe a recruiter (which unfortunately would be a fellow national)
Does the law really stop it though? It’s illegal here too, but was wife up until covid knocked that nonsense on the head
Probably not 100% of the time, im sure there are some private company HR dept's that still try it on, but there are now at least official ways and means to reclaim them, thanks mainly to some of the reforms introduced over the past 10 years.
It happened to one of my wife's colleagues in her previous workplace. 3 days after filing the complaint, she was accompanied by a police officer to the HR office to reclaim it. Company was fined and warned. Still not perfect, but its moving in the right direction.
The way most of those Middle East countries have built their infrastructure etc and treat their cheap labour foreign workers is utter filth and a reason I won’t be going out there
Having supported charities that have helped migrant workers and their families come to terms with the shit they’ve been put through I’m gutted this tournament is taking place where it is .
Of course nowhere is perfect but some less so than others .
that’s my grown up piece for the year
So what is the difference between Eastern Europeans, working on the farms and factories in the UK that live in 30 year old caravans with no running water or heaters?
UK press seem to ignore that..
I am not defending the way the workers are treated here, but they are certainly looked after a lot better than you think, and they are creating a better live for their families, and have a better standard of living than they would in the countries they have been coming from. Not sure that can be said for the farm workers..
UK press seem to have away of not having all the facts in place, or printing both sides of the stories!
I thought that the workers in Qatar had no choice where they can live and have their passports taken off them, as well as a portion of their wages automatically deducted?
Unless that is all made up too?
No choice where to live: True (Most of the time its provided accommodation, as is my situation at the moment) Have passports taken: False....its actually against the law here to withold someones passport (aside from initial residency visa process). Portion of wages automatically deducted: Not normal at all....... Only reason would be if they owe a recruiter (which unfortunately would be a fellow national)
That should not happen either, the companies should be the entities paying the recruiters, not the employees.
100% agree, but this is usually done in the home country prior to even arriving.
The way most of those Middle East countries have built their infrastructure etc and treat their cheap labour foreign workers is utter filth and a reason I won’t be going out there
Having supported charities that have helped migrant workers and their families come to terms with the shit they’ve been put through I’m gutted this tournament is taking place where it is .
Of course nowhere is perfect but some less so than others .
that’s my grown up piece for the year
So what is the difference between Eastern Europeans, working on the farms and factories in the UK that live in 30 year old caravans with no running water or heaters?
UK press seem to ignore that..
I am not defending the way the workers are treated here, but they are certainly looked after a lot better than you think, and they are creating a better live for their families, and have a better standard of living than they would in the countries they have been coming from. Not sure that can be said for the farm workers..
UK press seem to have away of not having all the facts in place, or printing both sides of the stories!
I thought that the workers in Qatar had no choice where they can live and have their passports taken off them, as well as a portion of their wages automatically deducted?
Unless that is all made up too?
No choice where to live: True (Most of the time its provided accommodation, as is my situation at the moment) Have passports taken: False....its actually against the law here to withold someones passport (aside from initial residency visa process). Portion of wages automatically deducted: Not normal at all....... Only reason would be if they owe a recruiter (which unfortunately would be a fellow national)
Thanks Napsy for the clarification. amazing what people believe in the British press. There are few Charlton fans heading to the England V Wales game, would be good to meet a fellow Charlton fan.
I have tickets to this match also, have to organise something pre match then.
Also regarding the beer in the stadium........I was in and around Khalifa Stadium today and can confirm that Budweiser have outlets in the stadium perimeter (after ticket check and security, before entering the actual stadium) and look to be serving Budweiser & Budweiser Zero. The outlets are away from the entrance gates so maybe this is the compromise of being slightly less visible??
We are getting 3.30pm flight out of Dubai, we was planning on heading to the Fanzone, but open to ideas.. Any brunch style packages available do you know?
Bit of a nightmare getting back actually, the flight back to Dubai, is roughly 2 hours after the match, so going to be touch and go, so we have booked a back up flight in to Abu Dhabi just in case! But that isn't until 4.30 in the morning.. Going to be a long day!!
Personally I’ve no real truck with any of it other than the clear standards inefficiencies that have led to so many needless deaths in stadium construction. That to me is the only thing people should be kicking off with Qatar.
All ire for everything else should be directed at FIFA for selecting them. The heat, homosexuality, alcohol and human rights issues were always going to be contentious and should have ruled them out from the get go.
Qatar are perfectly right to expect visitors to their country to abide with the rules of their land. We would expect the same here. Whether we agree with their rules or not is a separate argument but irrelevant in this case. If you are are against them, don’t go.
The way most of those Middle East countries have built their infrastructure etc and treat their cheap labour foreign workers is utter filth and a reason I won’t be going out there
Having supported charities that have helped migrant workers and their families come to terms with the shit they’ve been put through I’m gutted this tournament is taking place where it is .
Of course nowhere is perfect but some less so than others .
that’s my grown up piece for the year
So what is the difference between Eastern Europeans, working on the farms and factories in the UK that live in 30 year old caravans with no running water or heaters?
UK press seem to ignore that..
I am not defending the way the workers are treated here, but they are certainly looked after a lot better than you think, and they are creating a better live for their families, and have a better standard of living than they would in the countries they have been coming from. Not sure that can be said for the farm workers..
UK press seem to have away of not having all the facts in place, or printing both sides of the stories!
I thought that the workers in Qatar had no choice where they can live and have their passports taken off them, as well as a portion of their wages automatically deducted?
Unless that is all made up too?
No choice where to live: True (Most of the time its provided accommodation, as is my situation at the moment) Have passports taken: False....its actually against the law here to withold someones passport (aside from initial residency visa process). Portion of wages automatically deducted: Not normal at all....... Only reason would be if they owe a recruiter (which unfortunately would be a fellow national)
That should not happen either, the companies should be the entities paying the recruiters, not the employees.
Always well and good, unless it’s standard practice. I know several Dutch people who paid a % of their salary every month for a full year.
Personally I’ve no real truck with any of it other than the clear standards inefficiencies that have led to so many needless deaths in stadium construction. That to me is the only thing people should be kicking off with Qatar.
All ire for everything else should be directed at FIFA for selecting them. The heat, homosexuality, alcohol and human rights issues were always going to be contentious and should have ruled them out from the get go.
Qatar are perfectly right to expect visitors to their country to abide with the rules of their land. We would expect the same here. Whether we agree with their rules or not is a separate argument but irrelevant in this case. If you are are against them, don’t go.
I would be interested to see the actual figure of people that died in the stadium build.
Personally I’ve no real truck with any of it other than the clear standards inefficiencies that have led to so many needless deaths in stadium construction. That to me is the only thing people should be kicking off with Qatar.
All ire for everything else should be directed at FIFA for selecting them. The heat, homosexuality, alcohol and human rights issues were always going to be contentious and should have ruled them out from the get go.
Qatar are perfectly right to expect visitors to their country to abide with the rules of their land. We would expect the same here. Whether we agree with their rules or not is a separate argument but irrelevant in this case. If you are are against them, don’t go.
I agree with a lot of this but remember this is FIFA's world cup as much as (or more than) Quatar's. FIFA gets two thirds of its revenue from the WC. A reduction in revenue will mean it is less likely that a similar award will be made in future.
I'm not letting Qatar off the hook for the bidding process either. I think the accusations of bribery are more than credible.
Personally I’ve no real truck with any of it other than the clear standards inefficiencies that have led to so many needless deaths in stadium construction. That to me is the only thing people should be kicking off with Qatar.
All ire for everything else should be directed at FIFA for selecting them. The heat, homosexuality, alcohol and human rights issues were always going to be contentious and should have ruled them out from the get go.
Qatar are perfectly right to expect visitors to their country to abide with the rules of their land. We would expect the same here. Whether we agree with their rules or not is a separate argument but irrelevant in this case. If you are are against them, don’t go.
I would be interested to see the actual figure of people that died in the stadium build.
Shame the Qatar government will never release those numbers truthfully.
They probably don't know the number and don't care.
Personally I’ve no real truck with any of it other than the clear standards inefficiencies that have led to so many needless deaths in stadium construction. That to me is the only thing people should be kicking off with Qatar.
All ire for everything else should be directed at FIFA for selecting them. The heat, homosexuality, alcohol and human rights issues were always going to be contentious and should have ruled them out from the get go.
Qatar are perfectly right to expect visitors to their country to abide with the rules of their land. We would expect the same here. Whether we agree with their rules or not is a separate argument but irrelevant in this case. If you are are against them, don’t go.
I would be interested to see the actual figure of people that died in the stadium build.
Personally I’ve no real truck with any of it other than the clear standards inefficiencies that have led to so many needless deaths in stadium construction. That to me is the only thing people should be kicking off with Qatar.
All ire for everything else should be directed at FIFA for selecting them. The heat, homosexuality, alcohol and human rights issues were always going to be contentious and should have ruled them out from the get go.
Qatar are perfectly right to expect visitors to their country to abide with the rules of their land. We would expect the same here. Whether we agree with their rules or not is a separate argument but irrelevant in this case. If you are are against them, don’t go.
I would be interested to see the actual figure of people that died in the stadium build.
To (mis)quote a famous lady - well he would say that wouldn't he.
Like all these things, I suspect the truth lies somewhere inbetween. "However, the International Labour Organisation (ILO) says this is an underestimate. Qatar doesn't count deaths from heart attacks and respiratory failure as work-related - even though these are common symptoms of heatstroke, brought on from doing heavy labour in very high temperatures."
"Qatar’s grim death toll is revealed in long spreadsheets of official data listing the causes of death: multiple blunt injuries due to a fall from height; asphyxia due to hanging; undetermined cause of death due to decomposition.
But among the causes, the most common by far is so-called “natural deaths”, often attributed to acute heart or respiratory failure.
Based on the data obtained by the Guardian, 69% of deaths among Indian, Nepali and Bangladeshi workers are categorised as natural. Among Indians alone, the figure is 80%."
80% of deaths of working age migrant workers, from India, all came from natural causes, did they? Deluded.
If a man is forced to work 18-hour shifts, for little pay in the heat, goes home and has a heart attack. Qatar would put that down to natural causes.
Personally I’ve no real truck with any of it other than the clear standards inefficiencies that have led to so many needless deaths in stadium construction. That to me is the only thing people should be kicking off with Qatar.
All ire for everything else should be directed at FIFA for selecting them. The heat, homosexuality, alcohol and human rights issues were always going to be contentious and should have ruled them out from the get go.
Qatar are perfectly right to expect visitors to their country to abide with the rules of their land. We would expect the same here. Whether we agree with their rules or not is a separate argument but irrelevant in this case. If you are are against them, don’t go.
I would be interested to see the actual figure of people that died in the stadium build.
Shame the Qatar government will never release those numbers truthfully.
They probably don't know the number and don't care.
So you are just going to believe what’s in the British press? And publish article that they know will sell, and that people are against the World Cup being in Qatar.
Unfortunately people have lost there lives and it’s very sad. But people die in building sites, roads and construction all around the world. For whatever reason, people seem to think it’s 1000s that have lost their lives building stadiums, I would be extremely surprised.
Personally I’ve no real truck with any of it other than the clear standards inefficiencies that have led to so many needless deaths in stadium construction. That to me is the only thing people should be kicking off with Qatar.
All ire for everything else should be directed at FIFA for selecting them. The heat, homosexuality, alcohol and human rights issues were always going to be contentious and should have ruled them out from the get go.
Qatar are perfectly right to expect visitors to their country to abide with the rules of their land. We would expect the same here. Whether we agree with their rules or not is a separate argument but irrelevant in this case. If you are are against them, don’t go.
I would be interested to see the actual figure of people that died in the stadium build.
Shame the Qatar government will never release those numbers truthfully.
They probably don't know the number and don't care.
So you are just going to believe what’s in the British press? And publish article that they know will sell, and that people are against the World Cup being in Qatar.
Unfortunately people have lost there lives and it’s very sad. But people die in building sites, roads and construction all around the world. For whatever reason, people seem to think it’s 1000s that have lost their lives building stadiums, I would be extremely surprised.
Over the Qatar royal family? You bet.
If it's not true and 'slander' why didn't Qatar take them to court over it? It's still up on the Guardian website unedited.
The way most of those Middle East countries have built their infrastructure etc and treat their cheap labour foreign workers is utter filth and a reason I won’t be going out there
Having supported charities that have helped migrant workers and their families come to terms with the shit they’ve been put through I’m gutted this tournament is taking place where it is .
Of course nowhere is perfect but some less so than others .
that’s my grown up piece for the year
So what is the difference between Eastern Europeans, working on the farms and factories in the UK that live in 30 year old caravans with no running water or heaters?
UK press seem to ignore that..
I am not defending the way the workers are treated here, but they are certainly looked after a lot better than you think, and they are creating a better live for their families, and have a better standard of living than they would in the countries they have been coming from. Not sure that can be said for the farm workers..
UK press seem to have away of not having all the facts in place, or printing both sides of the stories!
I thought that the workers in Qatar had no choice where they can live and have their passports taken off them, as well as a portion of their wages automatically deducted?
Unless that is all made up too?
No choice where to live: True (Most of the time its provided accommodation, as is my situation at the moment) Have passports taken: False....its actually against the law here to withold someones passport (aside from initial residency visa process). Portion of wages automatically deducted: Not normal at all....... Only reason would be if they owe a recruiter (which unfortunately would be a fellow national)
As you say later, some do have the their passports taken, and wages automatically deducted does happen. Whoever is responsible, it happens.
Without researching to the n-th degee many of these laws seem to have been put in place only in the past few years - which is a good thing of course - but it wasn't the case for the first few years of construction, and has happened after international pressure ( in fairness to Qatar, the reforms may have happened anyway - nobody can say for certain they would not).
My real beef remains a football one, as previously mentioned.
Personally I’ve no real truck with any of it other than the clear standards inefficiencies that have led to so many needless deaths in stadium construction. That to me is the only thing people should be kicking off with Qatar.
All ire for everything else should be directed at FIFA for selecting them. The heat, homosexuality, alcohol and human rights issues were always going to be contentious and should have ruled them out from the get go.
Qatar are perfectly right to expect visitors to their country to abide with the rules of their land. We would expect the same here. Whether we agree with their rules or not is a separate argument but irrelevant in this case. If you are are against them, don’t go.
I would be interested to see the actual figure of people that died in the stadium build.
To (mis)quote a famous lady - well he would say that wouldn't he.
Like all these things, I suspect the truth lies somewhere inbetween.
"However, the International Labour Organisation (ILO) says this is an underestimate. Qatar doesn't count deaths from heart attacks and respiratory failure as work-related - even though these are common symptoms of heatstroke, brought on from doing heavy labour in very high temperatures."
Personally I’ve no real truck with any of it other than the clear standards inefficiencies that have led to so many needless deaths in stadium construction. That to me is the only thing people should be kicking off with Qatar.
All ire for everything else should be directed at FIFA for selecting them. The heat, homosexuality, alcohol and human rights issues were always going to be contentious and should have ruled them out from the get go.
Qatar are perfectly right to expect visitors to their country to abide with the rules of their land. We would expect the same here. Whether we agree with their rules or not is a separate argument but irrelevant in this case. If you are are against them, don’t go.
I would be interested to see the actual figure of people that died in the stadium build.
Shame the Qatar government will never release those numbers truthfully.
They probably don't know the number and don't care.
So you are just going to believe what’s in the British press? And publish article that they know will sell, and that people are against the World Cup being in Qatar.
Unfortunately people have lost there lives and it’s very sad. But people die in building sites, roads and construction all around the world. For whatever reason, people seem to think it’s 1000s that have lost their lives building stadiums, I would be extremely surprised.
Most of the deaths were due to infrastructure built for the world cup than the actual stadiums which is a far larger project. I've worked in construction in the UK for 15 years and have only experienced one death during that time on one of my jobs, which was due to a non-work related suicide. I've worked with people who have worked in construction in the Middle East and their experience is vastly different.
Personally I’ve no real truck with any of it other than the clear standards inefficiencies that have led to so many needless deaths in stadium construction. That to me is the only thing people should be kicking off with Qatar.
All ire for everything else should be directed at FIFA for selecting them. The heat, homosexuality, alcohol and human rights issues were always going to be contentious and should have ruled them out from the get go.
Qatar are perfectly right to expect visitors to their country to abide with the rules of their land. We would expect the same here. Whether we agree with their rules or not is a separate argument but irrelevant in this case. If you are are against them, don’t go.
I would be interested to see the actual figure of people that died in the stadium build.
Shame the Qatar government will never release those numbers truthfully.
They probably don't know the number and don't care.
So you are just going to believe what’s in the British press? And publish article that they know will sell, and that people are against the World Cup being in Qatar.
Unfortunately people have lost there lives and it’s very sad. But people die in building sites, roads and construction all around the world. For whatever reason, people seem to think it’s 1000s that have lost their lives building stadiums, I would be extremely surprised.
Nobody knows how many people died building the stadia. We do know that 15,000 foreign workers died in Qatar (from Quatar's own statistics) during the construction period but we don't know what projects or sectors they were working in. The fact that Qatar are not saying how many died during construction should really tell you all you know (they admit to three specific deaths).
By contrast nobody died in the construction of the London Olympic Park.
Personally I’ve no real truck with any of it other than the clear standards inefficiencies that have led to so many needless deaths in stadium construction. That to me is the only thing people should be kicking off with Qatar.
All ire for everything else should be directed at FIFA for selecting them. The heat, homosexuality, alcohol and human rights issues were always going to be contentious and should have ruled them out from the get go.
Qatar are perfectly right to expect visitors to their country to abide with the rules of their land. We would expect the same here. Whether we agree with their rules or not is a separate argument but irrelevant in this case. If you are are against them, don’t go.
I would be interested to see the actual figure of people that died in the stadium build.
Shame the Qatar government will never release those numbers truthfully.
They probably don't know the number and don't care.
So you are just going to believe what’s in the British press? And publish article that they know will sell, and that people are against the World Cup being in Qatar.
Unfortunately people have lost there lives and it’s very sad. But people die in building sites, roads and construction all around the world. For whatever reason, people seem to think it’s 1000s that have lost their lives building stadiums, I would be extremely surprised.
Nobody knows how many people died building the stadia. We do know that 15,000 foreign workers died in Qatar (from Quatar's own statistics) during the construction period but we don't know what projects or sectors they were working in. The fact that Qatar are not saying how many died during construction should really tell you all you know (they admit to three specific deaths).
By contrast nobody died in the construction of the London Olympic Park.
Personally I’ve no real truck with any of it other than the clear standards inefficiencies that have led to so many needless deaths in stadium construction. That to me is the only thing people should be kicking off with Qatar.
All ire for everything else should be directed at FIFA for selecting them. The heat, homosexuality, alcohol and human rights issues were always going to be contentious and should have ruled them out from the get go.
Qatar are perfectly right to expect visitors to their country to abide with the rules of their land. We would expect the same here. Whether we agree with their rules or not is a separate argument but irrelevant in this case. If you are are against them, don’t go.
I would be interested to see the actual figure of people that died in the stadium build.
Shame the Qatar government will never release those numbers truthfully.
They probably don't know the number and don't care.
So you are just going to believe what’s in the British press? And publish article that they know will sell, and that people are against the World Cup being in Qatar.
Unfortunately people have lost there lives and it’s very sad. But people die in building sites, roads and construction all around the world. For whatever reason, people seem to think it’s 1000s that have lost their lives building stadiums, I would be extremely surprised.
Nobody knows how many people died building the stadia. We do know that 15,000 foreign workers died in Qatar (from Quatar's own statistics) during the construction period but we don't know what projects or sectors they were working in. The fact that Qatar are not saying how many died during construction should really tell you all you know (they admit to three specific deaths).
By contrast nobody died in the construction of the London Olympic Park.
Unfortunately that statement is not correct.
"In contrast London 2012 is considered the safest Olympic build in history. It recorded 0 fatalities, with a reported injury rate of 0.17 per 100,000 person-hours – far below the 0.55 building industry average in the UK. The effort lasted four years and was completed on time and under budget."
Personally I’ve no real truck with any of it other than the clear standards inefficiencies that have led to so many needless deaths in stadium construction. That to me is the only thing people should be kicking off with Qatar.
All ire for everything else should be directed at FIFA for selecting them. The heat, homosexuality, alcohol and human rights issues were always going to be contentious and should have ruled them out from the get go.
Qatar are perfectly right to expect visitors to their country to abide with the rules of their land. We would expect the same here. Whether we agree with their rules or not is a separate argument but irrelevant in this case. If you are are against them, don’t go.
I would be interested to see the actual figure of people that died in the stadium build.
Shame the Qatar government will never release those numbers truthfully.
They probably don't know the number and don't care.
So you are just going to believe what’s in the British press? And publish article that they know will sell, and that people are against the World Cup being in Qatar.
Unfortunately people have lost there lives and it’s very sad. But people die in building sites, roads and construction all around the world. For whatever reason, people seem to think it’s 1000s that have lost their lives building stadiums, I would be extremely surprised.
Most of the deaths were due to infrastructure built for the world cup than the actual stadiums which is a far larger project. I've worked in construction in the UK for 15 years and have only experienced one death during that time on one of my jobs, which was due to a non-work related suicide. I've worked with people who have worked in construction in the Middle East and their experience is vastly different.
This I agree with - and the article in The Guardian is a bit mis-leading, if I remember rightly it was across the Middle East on a number of projects over a 15 year period. Not just the World Cup.
As you can sense, I am getting a bit frustrated by only half the story being told or people actually knowing the full story.
The press will only tell you what you want to hear, and what ever sells the stories or to create an agenda.
Personally I’ve no real truck with any of it other than the clear standards inefficiencies that have led to so many needless deaths in stadium construction. That to me is the only thing people should be kicking off with Qatar.
All ire for everything else should be directed at FIFA for selecting them. The heat, homosexuality, alcohol and human rights issues were always going to be contentious and should have ruled them out from the get go.
Qatar are perfectly right to expect visitors to their country to abide with the rules of their land. We would expect the same here. Whether we agree with their rules or not is a separate argument but irrelevant in this case. If you are are against them, don’t go.
I would be interested to see the actual figure of people that died in the stadium build.
Shame the Qatar government will never release those numbers truthfully.
They probably don't know the number and don't care.
So you are just going to believe what’s in the British press? And publish article that they know will sell, and that people are against the World Cup being in Qatar.
Unfortunately people have lost there lives and it’s very sad. But people die in building sites, roads and construction all around the world. For whatever reason, people seem to think it’s 1000s that have lost their lives building stadiums, I would be extremely surprised.
Most of the deaths were due to infrastructure built for the world cup than the actual stadiums which is a far larger project. I've worked in construction in the UK for 15 years and have only experienced one death during that time on one of my jobs, which was due to a non-work related suicide. I've worked with people who have worked in construction in the Middle East and their experience is vastly different.
This I agree with - and the article in The Guardian is a bit mis-leading, if I remember rightly it was across the Middle East on a number of projects over a 15 year period. Not just the World Cup.
As you can sense, I am getting a bit frustrated by only half the story being told or people actually knowing the full story.
The press will only tell you what you want to hear, and what ever sells the stories or to create an agenda.
wrong again.
"More than 6,500 migrant workers from India, Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka have died in Qatar since it won the right to host the World Cup 10 years ago, the Guardian can reveal.
The total death toll is significantly higher, as these figures do not include deaths from a number of countries which send large numbers of workers to Qatar, including the Philippines and Kenya. Deaths that occurred in the final months of 2020 are also not included."
Personally I’ve no real truck with any of it other than the clear standards inefficiencies that have led to so many needless deaths in stadium construction. That to me is the only thing people should be kicking off with Qatar.
All ire for everything else should be directed at FIFA for selecting them. The heat, homosexuality, alcohol and human rights issues were always going to be contentious and should have ruled them out from the get go.
Qatar are perfectly right to expect visitors to their country to abide with the rules of their land. We would expect the same here. Whether we agree with their rules or not is a separate argument but irrelevant in this case. If you are are against them, don’t go.
I would be interested to see the actual figure of people that died in the stadium build.
Shame the Qatar government will never release those numbers truthfully.
They probably don't know the number and don't care.
So you are just going to believe what’s in the British press? And publish article that they know will sell, and that people are against the World Cup being in Qatar.
Unfortunately people have lost there lives and it’s very sad. But people die in building sites, roads and construction all around the world. For whatever reason, people seem to think it’s 1000s that have lost their lives building stadiums, I would be extremely surprised.
Most of the deaths were due to infrastructure built for the world cup than the actual stadiums which is a far larger project. I've worked in construction in the UK for 15 years and have only experienced one death during that time on one of my jobs, which was due to a non-work related suicide. I've worked with people who have worked in construction in the Middle East and their experience is vastly different.
This I agree with - and the article in The Guardian is a bit mis-leading, if I remember rightly it was across the Middle East on a number of projects over a 15 year period. Not just the World Cup.
As you can sense, I am getting a bit frustrated by only half the story being told or people actually knowing the full story.
The press will only tell you what you want to hear, and what ever sells the stories or to create an agenda.
wrong again.
"More than 6,500 migrant workers from India, Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka have died in Qatar since it won the right to host the World Cup 10 years ago, the Guardian can reveal.
The total death toll is significantly higher, as these figures do not include deaths from a number of countries which send large numbers of workers to Qatar, including the Philippines and Kenya. Deaths that occurred in the final months of 2020 are also not included."
And all killed directly as a result of construction? Please this article as it is a while since I would have read it.
Personally I’ve no real truck with any of it other than the clear standards inefficiencies that have led to so many needless deaths in stadium construction. That to me is the only thing people should be kicking off with Qatar.
All ire for everything else should be directed at FIFA for selecting them. The heat, homosexuality, alcohol and human rights issues were always going to be contentious and should have ruled them out from the get go.
Qatar are perfectly right to expect visitors to their country to abide with the rules of their land. We would expect the same here. Whether we agree with their rules or not is a separate argument but irrelevant in this case. If you are are against them, don’t go.
I would be interested to see the actual figure of people that died in the stadium build.
Shame the Qatar government will never release those numbers truthfully.
They probably don't know the number and don't care.
So you are just going to believe what’s in the British press? And publish article that they know will sell, and that people are against the World Cup being in Qatar.
Unfortunately people have lost there lives and it’s very sad. But people die in building sites, roads and construction all around the world. For whatever reason, people seem to think it’s 1000s that have lost their lives building stadiums, I would be extremely surprised.
Most of the deaths were due to infrastructure built for the world cup than the actual stadiums which is a far larger project. I've worked in construction in the UK for 15 years and have only experienced one death during that time on one of my jobs, which was due to a non-work related suicide. I've worked with people who have worked in construction in the Middle East and their experience is vastly different.
This I agree with - and the article in The Guardian is a bit mis-leading, if I remember rightly it was across the Middle East on a number of projects over a 15 year period. Not just the World Cup.
As you can sense, I am getting a bit frustrated by only half the story being told or people actually knowing the full story.
The press will only tell you what you want to hear, and what ever sells the stories or to create an agenda.
wrong again.
"More than 6,500 migrant workers from India, Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka have died in Qatar since it won the right to host the World Cup 10 years ago, the Guardian can reveal.
The total death toll is significantly higher, as these figures do not include deaths from a number of countries which send large numbers of workers to Qatar, including the Philippines and Kenya. Deaths that occurred in the final months of 2020 are also not included."
And all killed directly as a result of construction? Please this article as it is a while since I would have read it.
Personally I’ve no real truck with any of it other than the clear standards inefficiencies that have led to so many needless deaths in stadium construction. That to me is the only thing people should be kicking off with Qatar.
All ire for everything else should be directed at FIFA for selecting them. The heat, homosexuality, alcohol and human rights issues were always going to be contentious and should have ruled them out from the get go.
Qatar are perfectly right to expect visitors to their country to abide with the rules of their land. We would expect the same here. Whether we agree with their rules or not is a separate argument but irrelevant in this case. If you are are against them, don’t go.
I would be interested to see the actual figure of people that died in the stadium build.
Shame the Qatar government will never release those numbers truthfully.
They probably don't know the number and don't care.
So you are just going to believe what’s in the British press? And publish article that they know will sell, and that people are against the World Cup being in Qatar.
Unfortunately people have lost there lives and it’s very sad. But people die in building sites, roads and construction all around the world. For whatever reason, people seem to think it’s 1000s that have lost their lives building stadiums, I would be extremely surprised.
Most of the deaths were due to infrastructure built for the world cup than the actual stadiums which is a far larger project. I've worked in construction in the UK for 15 years and have only experienced one death during that time on one of my jobs, which was due to a non-work related suicide. I've worked with people who have worked in construction in the Middle East and their experience is vastly different.
This I agree with - and the article in The Guardian is a bit mis-leading, if I remember rightly it was across the Middle East on a number of projects over a 15 year period. Not just the World Cup.
As you can sense, I am getting a bit frustrated by only half the story being told or people actually knowing the full story.
The press will only tell you what you want to hear, and what ever sells the stories or to create an agenda.
Err, no.
Just in Qatar not across the middle east. Over a 10 year period not 15 year period. The 6,500 workers who died were all from Sri Lanka, Pakistan, India and Nepal. The Guardian (which I am not a fan of by the way) didn't say that they had all died during cinstruction of the world cup. Just the above. It also provided a response from the Qarai Government to the effect that the deaths were not outsized given the size of the ex-pat workforce.
I know all this because I read the article before posting. You could have done the same instead of relying on memory making your frustration at "half the story being told or people actually knowing the full story" a bit ironic.
Personally I’ve no real truck with any of it other than the clear standards inefficiencies that have led to so many needless deaths in stadium construction. That to me is the only thing people should be kicking off with Qatar.
All ire for everything else should be directed at FIFA for selecting them. The heat, homosexuality, alcohol and human rights issues were always going to be contentious and should have ruled them out from the get go.
Qatar are perfectly right to expect visitors to their country to abide with the rules of their land. We would expect the same here. Whether we agree with their rules or not is a separate argument but irrelevant in this case. If you are are against them, don’t go.
I would be interested to see the actual figure of people that died in the stadium build.
Shame the Qatar government will never release those numbers truthfully.
They probably don't know the number and don't care.
So you are just going to believe what’s in the British press? And publish article that they know will sell, and that people are against the World Cup being in Qatar.
Unfortunately people have lost there lives and it’s very sad. But people die in building sites, roads and construction all around the world. For whatever reason, people seem to think it’s 1000s that have lost their lives building stadiums, I would be extremely surprised.
Most of the deaths were due to infrastructure built for the world cup than the actual stadiums which is a far larger project. I've worked in construction in the UK for 15 years and have only experienced one death during that time on one of my jobs, which was due to a non-work related suicide. I've worked with people who have worked in construction in the Middle East and their experience is vastly different.
This I agree with - and the article in The Guardian is a bit mis-leading, if I remember rightly it was across the Middle East on a number of projects over a 15 year period. Not just the World Cup.
As you can sense, I am getting a bit frustrated by only half the story being told or people actually knowing the full story.
The press will only tell you what you want to hear, and what ever sells the stories or to create an agenda.
wrong again.
"More than 6,500 migrant workers from India, Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka have died in Qatar since it won the right to host the World Cup 10 years ago, the Guardian can reveal.
The total death toll is significantly higher, as these figures do not include deaths from a number of countries which send large numbers of workers to Qatar, including the Philippines and Kenya. Deaths that occurred in the final months of 2020 are also not included."
And all killed directly as a result of construction? Please this article as it is a while since I would have read it.
I like how you've slipped that word directly in there to give yourself a bit of wiggle room.
If 6,500+ working age migrant workers all drop dead in a 10-year span, that is an outrage regardless of how or why it's happened.
Would you consider suicide or a heart attack at home directly as a result from their occupation? Because Qatar wouldn't.
No it would depend? The way the Covid deaths were being registered! So depends on what side of the fence you sit.
not sure we will ever know the full picture.. 650 a year out of 10,000s deaths that could consist of anything from heart attack, suicide, underlining medical conditions, hit by bus, murder on the camp sits or at work, what ever you want to call it..
Would be interested to know how many people in U.K. have died from work relented illness, suicide or on site over same period, would be interested to know.
how many road workers are killed a year? How many rail workers?
Personally I’ve no real truck with any of it other than the clear standards inefficiencies that have led to so many needless deaths in stadium construction. That to me is the only thing people should be kicking off with Qatar.
All ire for everything else should be directed at FIFA for selecting them. The heat, homosexuality, alcohol and human rights issues were always going to be contentious and should have ruled them out from the get go.
Qatar are perfectly right to expect visitors to their country to abide with the rules of their land. We would expect the same here. Whether we agree with their rules or not is a separate argument but irrelevant in this case. If you are are against them, don’t go.
I would be interested to see the actual figure of people that died in the stadium build.
Shame the Qatar government will never release those numbers truthfully.
They probably don't know the number and don't care.
So you are just going to believe what’s in the British press? And publish article that they know will sell, and that people are against the World Cup being in Qatar.
Unfortunately people have lost there lives and it’s very sad. But people die in building sites, roads and construction all around the world. For whatever reason, people seem to think it’s 1000s that have lost their lives building stadiums, I would be extremely surprised.
Nobody knows how many people died building the stadia. We do know that 15,000 foreign workers died in Qatar (from Quatar's own statistics) during the construction period but we don't know what projects or sectors they were working in. The fact that Qatar are not saying how many died during construction should really tell you all you know (they admit to three specific deaths).
By contrast nobody died in the construction of the London Olympic Park.
Unfortunately that statement is not correct.
Why has someone liked that?
Anyway, are you reffering to the West Ham stadium Transformation, if so that was the death on my job that i mentionesd. There was a work related death on the Stratford Westfield which was tragic and maybe included as the Olympic Park?
Crossrail had a few (single digits). Stadiums are far safer to build.
Comments
It happened to one of my wife's colleagues in her previous workplace. 3 days after filing the complaint, she was accompanied by a police officer to the HR office to reclaim it. Company was fined and warned. Still not perfect, but its moving in the right direction.
Bit of a nightmare getting back actually, the flight back to Dubai, is roughly 2 hours after the match, so going to be touch and go, so we have booked a back up flight in to Abu Dhabi just in case! But that isn't until 4.30 in the morning..
Going to be a long day!!
All ire for everything else should be directed at FIFA for selecting them. The heat, homosexuality, alcohol and human rights issues were always going to be contentious and should have ruled them out from the get go.
I'm not letting Qatar off the hook for the bidding process either. I think the accusations of bribery are more than credible.
They probably don't know the number and don't care.
Like all these things, I suspect the truth lies somewhere inbetween.
"However, the International Labour Organisation (ILO) says this is an underestimate. Qatar doesn't count deaths from heart attacks and respiratory failure as work-related - even though these are common symptoms of heatstroke, brought on from doing heavy labour in very high temperatures."
"Qatar’s grim death toll is revealed in long spreadsheets of official data listing the causes of death: multiple blunt injuries due to a fall from height; asphyxia due to hanging; undetermined cause of death due to decomposition.
But among the causes, the most common by far is so-called “natural deaths”, often attributed to acute heart or respiratory failure.
Based on the data obtained by the Guardian, 69% of deaths among Indian, Nepali and Bangladeshi workers are categorised as natural. Among Indians alone, the figure is 80%."
80% of deaths of working age migrant workers, from India, all came from natural causes, did they? Deluded.
If a man is forced to work 18-hour shifts, for little pay in the heat, goes home and has a heart attack. Qatar would put that down to natural causes.
Unfortunately people have lost there lives and it’s very sad. But people die in building sites, roads and construction all around the world. For whatever reason, people seem to think it’s 1000s that have lost their lives building stadiums, I would be extremely surprised.
If it's not true and 'slander' why didn't Qatar take them to court over it? It's still up on the Guardian website unedited.
Without researching to the n-th degee many of these laws seem to have been put in place only in the past few years - which is a good thing of course - but it wasn't the case for the first few years of construction, and has happened after international pressure ( in fairness to Qatar, the reforms may have happened anyway - nobody can say for certain they would not).
My real beef remains a football one, as previously mentioned.
By contrast nobody died in the construction of the London Olympic Park.
https://www.shponline.co.uk/construction/paris-2024-past-and-present-olympic-construction-fatalities-indicate-we-still-have-a-long-way-to-go-says-health-and-safety-expert/
"More than 6,500 migrant workers from India, Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka have died in Qatar since it won the right to host the World Cup 10 years ago, the Guardian can reveal.
The total death toll is significantly higher, as these figures do not include deaths from a number of countries which send large numbers of workers to Qatar, including the Philippines and Kenya. Deaths that occurred in the final months of 2020 are also not included."
I like how you've slipped that word directly in there to give yourself a bit of wiggle room.
If 6,500+ working age migrant workers all drop dead in a 10-year span, that is an outrage regardless of how or why it's happened.
Would you consider suicide or a heart attack at home directly a result of their occupation and conditions? Because Qatar wouldn't.
Just in Qatar not across the middle east.
Over a 10 year period not 15 year period.
The 6,500 workers who died were all from Sri Lanka, Pakistan, India and Nepal.
The Guardian (which I am not a fan of by the way) didn't say that they had all died during cinstruction of the world cup. Just the above. It also provided a response from the Qarai Government to the effect that the deaths were not outsized given the size of the ex-pat workforce.
I know all this because I read the article before posting. You could have done the same instead of relying on memory making your frustration at "half the story being told or people actually knowing the full story" a bit ironic.
not sure we will ever know the full picture.. 650 a year out of 10,000s deaths that could consist of anything from heart attack, suicide, underlining medical conditions, hit by bus, murder on the camp sits or at work, what ever you want to call it..
Would be interested to know how many people in U.K. have died from work relented illness, suicide or on site over same period, would be interested to know.
how many road workers are killed a year? How many rail workers?
Anyway, are you reffering to the West Ham stadium Transformation, if so that was the death on my job that i mentionesd. There was a work related death on the Stratford Westfield which was tragic and maybe included as the Olympic Park?
Crossrail had a few (single digits). Stadiums are far safer to build.