Sandgaard's new 'break even' approach has sold him short, but Garner's continual whining and self- justificatory comments are wearing thin.
His job is to get the best out of the players available to him and comments like this are most unlikely to achieve that objective:“We’re not strong enough. We’ve not got the depth to compete at the top end of this division. That’s a fact..." We all know the squad is thin - like most clubs in this division - but his remarks seem primarily directed towards arse-covering and trying to protect his reputation; most importantly, I suspect that is how the players will see it as well.
His assertion that Port Vale's performance was "anti-football" was petulant and well out of order. It's no coincidence that that it comes after one of our worst performances for an extremely long time and hot on the heels of two very fortunate results at Stevenage and Burton - clubs with a core support of around 2,000, whose budgets are minuscule in comparison to ours.
Garner needs to knuckle down, demonstrate some tactical flexibility and find a way to get a tune out of these players. Five wins in nineteen league games tells its own story.
Sandgaard's new 'break even' approach has sold him short, but Garner's continual whining and self- justificatory comments are wearing thin.
His job is to get the best out of the players available to him and comments like this are most unlikely to achieve that objective:“We’re not strong enough. We’ve not got the depth to compete at the top end of this division. That’s a fact..." We all know the squad is thin - like most clubs in this division - but his remarks seem primarily directed towards arse-covering and trying to protect his reputation; most importantly, I suspect that is how the players will see it as well.
His assertion that Port Vale's performance was "anti-football" was petulant and well out of order. It's no coincidence that that it comes after one of our worst performances for an extremely long time and hot on the heels of two very fortunate results at Stevenage and Burton - clubs with a core support of around 2,000, whose budgets are minuscule in comparison to ours.
Garner needs to knuckle down, demonstrate some tactical flexibility and find a way to get a tune out of these players. Five wins in nineteen league games tells its own story.
I agree that this is one of his motivations. My question is how this bunch could be corralled any better. Garner has an idea, a philosophy. He also has 0.5 strikers available. Why not cover his own arse? He's been let down, betrayed, stuffed.
Sandgaard's new 'break even' approach has sold him short, but Garner's continual whining and self- justificatory comments are wearing thin.
His job is to get the best out of the players available to him and comments like this are most unlikely to achieve that objective:“We’re not strong enough. We’ve not got the depth to compete at the top end of this division. That’s a fact..." We all know the squad is thin - like most clubs in this division - but his remarks seem primarily directed towards arse-covering and trying to protect his reputation; most importantly, I suspect that is how the players will see it as well.
His assertion that Port Vale's performance was "anti-football" was petulant and well out of order. It's no coincidence that that it comes after one of our worst performances for an extremely long time and hot on the heels of two very fortunate results at Stevenage and Burton - clubs with a core support of around 2,000, whose budgets are minuscule in comparison to ours.
Garner needs to knuckle down, demonstrate some tactical flexibility and find a way to get a tune out of these players. Five wins in nineteen league games tells its own story.
With respect Garner is a very good young Manager and far better than the last three. Our owner is a typical Ego driven wannabe And is not financially big enough to turn this Club into a decent Championship team let alone a premier league team. With the right financial backing I think Garner would be a good Charlton Manager 👍👍👍
Sandgaard's new 'break even' approach has sold him short, but Garner's continual whining and self- justificatory comments are wearing thin.
His job is to get the best out of the players available to him and comments like this are most unlikely to achieve that objective:“We’re not strong enough. We’ve not got the depth to compete at the top end of this division. That’s a fact..." We all know the squad is thin - like most clubs in this division - but his remarks seem primarily directed towards arse-covering and trying to protect his reputation; most importantly, I suspect that is how the players will see it as well.
His assertion that Port Vale's performance was "anti-football" was petulant and well out of order. It's no coincidence that that it comes after one of our worst performances for an extremely long time and hot on the heels of two very fortunate results at Stevenage and Burton - clubs with a core support of around 2,000, whose budgets are minuscule in comparison to ours.
Garner needs to knuckle down, demonstrate some tactical flexibility and find a way to get a tune out of these players. Five wins in nineteen league games tells its own story.
With respect Garner is a very good young Manager and far better than the last three. Our owner is a typical Ego driven wannabe And is not financially big enough to turn this Club into a decent Championship team let alone a premier league team. With the right financial backing I think Garner would be a good Charlton Manager 👍👍👍
It remains to be seen how good a manager Ben Garner is, but continually talking the players down publicly is only likely prove counter-productive. Going into the season with only two established strikers - both of whom have fitness issues - and with no natural left back was always likely to cost us but yesterday's performance was utterly dismal. Given the playing resources that are available to him, I don't think that many people would disagree with the assertion that we are under-performing.
Demonstrating some sort of tactical flexibility might be a start. At the risk of understatement, Inniss and Lavelle are not natural ball players, so passing the ball sideways ad infinitum between the two of them and allowing the opposition to get comfortably in shape is not a smart play. Things will improve when we get O'Connell and Leaburn back but, in the meantime, Garner has to find a way of getting the best from what he has available.
He also needs to stop whining about the style of play adopted by opponents, as it comes across as petty sour grapes.
Sandgaard's new 'break even' approach has sold him short, but Garner's continual whining and self- justificatory comments are wearing thin.
His job is to get the best out of the players available to him and comments like this are most unlikely to achieve that objective:“We’re not strong enough. We’ve not got the depth to compete at the top end of this division. That’s a fact..." We all know the squad is thin - like most clubs in this division - but his remarks seem primarily directed towards arse-covering and trying to protect his reputation; most importantly, I suspect that is how the players will see it as well.
His assertion that Port Vale's performance was "anti-football" was petulant and well out of order. It's no coincidence that that it comes after one of our worst performances for an extremely long time and hot on the heels of two very fortunate results at Stevenage and Burton - clubs with a core support of around 2,000, whose budgets are minuscule in comparison to ours.
Garner needs to knuckle down, demonstrate some tactical flexibility and find a way to get a tune out of these players. Five wins in nineteen league games tells its own story.
With respect Garner is a very good young Manager and far better than the last three. Our owner is a typical Ego driven wannabe And is not financially big enough to turn this Club into a decent Championship team let alone a premier league team. With the right financial backing I think Garner would be a good Charlton Manager 👍👍👍
It remains to be seen how good a manager Ben Garner is, but continually talking the players down publicly is only likely prove counter-productive. Going into the season with only two established strikers - both of whom have fitness issues - and with no natural left back was always likely to cost us but yesterday's performance was utterly dismal. Given the playing resources that are available to him, I don't think that many people would disagree with the assertion that we are under-performing.
Demonstrating some sort of tactical flexibility might be a start. At the risk of understatement, Inniss and Lavelle are not natural ball players, so passing the ball sideways ad infinitum between the two of them and allowing the opposition to get comfortably in shape is not a smart play. Things will improve when we get O'Connell and Leaburn back but, in the meantime, Garner has to find a way of getting the best from what he has available.
He also needs to stop whining about the style of play adopted by opponents, as it comes across as petty sour grapes.
Innis and Lavelle wouldn't have to pass the ball backwards and side ways for hours at a time if the people in front of them were doing their job.
We need someone in front of them like John McGoven, get it and give it FOWARD. Which is why, IMO, neither Adkins nor Garner were overly keen to play Dobson.
We can't play without Dobson. Therefore the logical conclusion is we can't play out from the back. Jackson knew that, so didn't try.
It remains to be seen how good a manager Ben Garner is, but continually talking the players down publicly is only likely prove counter-productive. Going into the season with only two established strikers - both of whom have fitness issues - and with no natural left back was always likely to cost us but yesterday's performance was utterly dismal. Given the playing resources that are available to him, I don't think that many people would disagree with the assertion that we are under-performing.
Demonstrating some sort of tactical flexibility might be a start. At the risk of understatement, Inniss and Lavelle are not natural ball players, so passing the ball sideways ad infinitum between the two of them and allowing the opposition to get comfortably in shape is not a smart play. Things will improve when we get O'Connell and Leaburn back but, in the meantime, Garner has to find a way of getting the best from what he has available.
He also needs to stop whining about the style of play adopted by opponents, as it comes across as petty sour grapes.
Innis and Lavelle wouldn't have to pass the ball backwards and side ways for hours at a time if the people in front of them were doing their job.
We need someone in front of them like John McGoven, get it and give it FOWARD. Which is why, IMO, neither Adkins nor Garner were overly keen to play Dobson.
We can't play without Dobson. Therefore the logical conclusion is we can't play out from the back. Jackson knew that, so didn't try.
We looked better with Payne and JFC together. Can’t see how at least one of them isn’t starting.
I can see that Sandgaard is going for break even, and as a result of not building huge debt the results will suffer, crowds will diminish, but hopefully the club won't go bust, eventually some kind of equilibrium will be reached, maybe after relegation.
That leaves the question of how do we spend what money we do have, and for me the very last thing you cut is the Academy.
So that brings me on to managing the situation.
One thought in the back of my mind strangely enough is how did Jackson get such good results from Adkins team until he got the job? I believe a lot of it is to do with the players basically trying harder, fighting more, and upping their game.
Now Garner says we're running on fumes, well on the evidence of yesterday it wasn't so much about running out of petrol in the tank as it was about the team having had a collective whiff of chloroform. Something the manager shouldn't let happen.
If we are going to lose because Sandgaard is going for break even so be it, but where in that is the explanation for the manager putting out a team that doesn't even try? Even if the players are crap (which most of ours aren't)?
How about the 1000 or so fans that turn out at places like Stevenage, Burton and Port Vale? What does Garner thing they're running on? Those fans are running on scarce resources during a financial crisis but those heroes are trying, those are their loyal fumes, loyal fans. They deserve more respect that they got yesterday!
And then the ridiculous comment about Port Vale being anti football.
Really?
Like anti football but pro three juicy points is the reality.
We could do with being a bit more anti football if we got points on the board.
I accept that Sandgaard is a big problem, but until somebody else fronts up the dosh we have to make do. Garner moaning is simply giving the players an excuse not to bother that much. I suggest that Ben Garner ups his game to the level of the loyal travelling faithful.
Talking of which, any Addicks fan at Plymouth on Tuesday is a totally mad hero worth 100 of me.
We are slated to play Fulham in an U21 on Tuesday, as well as putting out a team at Plymouth that evening, so let me give this advice to Mr Garner, whatever happens this week, make sure you put out a snorting, fearsome, competitive hungry team against Stockport on Saturday. If we're destined to lose to Stockport I want to see us go down with a fight, not like the chloroform zombies we saw yesterday.
I can see that Sandgaard is going for break even, and as a result of not building huge debt the results will suffer, crowds will diminish, but hopefully the club won't go bust, eventually some kind of equilibrium will be reached, maybe after relegation.
This won't happen, because it can't. It's the same craziness which imagines we lose less money in L1 than the Championship. This is because you cannot eliminate the fixed costs or reduce the variable costs to a level at which the business stabilises.
I can see that Sandgaard is going for break even, and as a result of not building huge debt the results will suffer, crowds will diminish, but hopefully the club won't go bust, eventually some kind of equilibrium will be reached, maybe after relegation.
This won't happen, because it can't. It's the same craziness which imagines we lose less money in L1 than the Championship. This is because you cannot eliminate the fixed costs or reduce the variable costs to a level at which the business stabilises.
Yes. I can see that. I wish Sandgaard would speculate for success. My post was mainly about the reaction of Garner within our context.
Sandgaard's new 'break even' approach has sold him short, but Garner's continual whining and self- justificatory comments are wearing thin.
His job is to get the best out of the players available to him and comments like this are most unlikely to achieve that objective:“We’re not strong enough. We’ve not got the depth to compete at the top end of this division. That’s a fact..." We all know the squad is thin - like most clubs in this division - but his remarks seem primarily directed towards arse-covering and trying to protect his reputation; most importantly, I suspect that is how the players will see it as well.
His assertion that Port Vale's performance was "anti-football" was petulant and well out of order. It's no coincidence that that it comes after one of our worst performances for an extremely long time and hot on the heels of two very fortunate results at Stevenage and Burton - clubs with a core support of around 2,000, whose budgets are minuscule in comparison to ours.
Garner needs to knuckle down, demonstrate some tactical flexibility and find a way to get a tune out of these players. Five wins in nineteen league games tells its own story.
With respect Garner is a very good young Manager and far better than the last three. Our owner is a typical Ego driven wannabe And is not financially big enough to turn this Club into a decent Championship team let alone a premier league team. With the right financial backing I think Garner would be a good Charlton Manager 👍👍👍
On what basis is Garner better than Bowyer? He's never won promotion in his career and never managed above League One.
Sandgaard's new 'break even' approach has sold him short, but Garner's continual whining and self- justificatory comments are wearing thin.
His job is to get the best out of the players available to him and comments like this are most unlikely to achieve that objective:“We’re not strong enough. We’ve not got the depth to compete at the top end of this division. That’s a fact..." We all know the squad is thin - like most clubs in this division - but his remarks seem primarily directed towards arse-covering and trying to protect his reputation; most importantly, I suspect that is how the players will see it as well.
His assertion that Port Vale's performance was "anti-football" was petulant and well out of order. It's no coincidence that that it comes after one of our worst performances for an extremely long time and hot on the heels of two very fortunate results at Stevenage and Burton - clubs with a core support of around 2,000, whose budgets are minuscule in comparison to ours.
Garner needs to knuckle down, demonstrate some tactical flexibility and find a way to get a tune out of these players. Five wins in nineteen league games tells its own story.
With respect Garner is a very good young Manager and far better than the last three. Our owner is a typical Ego driven wannabe And is not financially big enough to turn this Club into a decent Championship team let alone a premier league team. With the right financial backing I think Garner would be a good Charlton Manager 👍👍👍
On what basis is Garner better than Bowyer? He's never won promotion in his career and never managed above League One.
He's not better than any of them. Done absolutely nothing. Speaks well and seems like a nice bloke so our fan base can't see the absolute horrific football being played.
It's very similar to when Sandgaard came in. Everyone was blind to the absolute nonsense of it all.
Garner really has nothing to lose by stating that things didn't materialise budget wise after he signed.
If Sandgaard doesn't like it then he can pay Garner off and Ben can go and ply his trade elsewhere with a healthy pay cheque.
Maybe that's actually what Ben wants? Perhaps his talks with Sandgaard regarding targets and transfer budget didn't go the way Ben wanted and this is his get out of jail free card. This whilst he still has a modicum of credibility as an up and coming young manager.
Let's face it, knowing what's happened to staff at Charlton and the complete lack of care shown by the Sandgaard family, who could blame Garner for making his feelings known publicly,
As for his comments about the playing personnel... he's not wrong is he? It's what we all think and know. Too much deadwood hanging around and too many players playing way below expectations.
Enjoyed the podcast last night and hearing Garner’s quite measured outburst. I suspect it followed disillusioning conversations with TS in the week or from the most sugar coated mind set, signalled to a lot of underperforming players that they are being shipped out in January to make way for others. Latter nigh on impossible and exceptionally unlikely, it was a frustrated outburst in a last chance saloon attempt to force TS’ hand.
We simply roll from one c@ck up to another don’t we…? We have no divine right to higher level football, but we should rightly expect a competitive assault on promotion. I actually quite like the overall Garner style of football, but for the fact we have non-footballing centre halves in Inniss and Lavelle which make assured quicker passing across and out the back painfully laboured and risky, while at the other end, I can only now assume that Stockley is carrying some nasty lingering side effect to his last most serious injury as he is not a patch on the player we have seen. I initially thought the new formation and style were the issue for him. It looks like there may be another root cause?
Anyhow, all of that rambling to say, hopefully Ben’s public statement begins to pile some pressure on TS and if he cannot afford or is not willing to invest properly any longer, I hope his ego can step aside and interested party conversations can be taken seriously with a view to change in ownership. We are going nowhere like this and if the rot of apathy that I am reading becomes more deep rooted, we really are looking down a barrel of doom.
We are getting to a point where we need to decide whether we can help influence anything as fans…? Perhaps after we see the next 8 weeks play out.
You cannot go into a season with one established fit striker and another who when he is fit can't play more than 30 minutes. It makes changing tactics much harder as well as making you more at risk from poor form and injuries. Yes, Leaburn has been a bonus, but it is reckless hoping for and putting all your eggs in the basket for a bonus and to be honest unfair on the player. He can still be played in but you need at a minimum, two established strikers who can mostly play all being even.
Most of us know that so it is logical Garner knows that with bells on. The only person who doesn't seems to me to be Sandgaard. But that is understandable because he is clearly pretty thick when it comes to football. If only he knew it or had the strength of character to admit he doesn't. When he came in, he was throwing money about. I didn't like it but if you throw enough mud at the wall, some can stick, however I didn't expect it to suddenly stop. The worst of all worlds. He has failed, he will never succeed and he has to walk.
You cannot go into a season with one established fit striker and another who when he is fit can't play more than 30 minutes. It makes changing tactics much harder as well as making you more at risk from poor form and injuries. Yes, Leaburn has been a bonus, but it is reckless hoping for and putting all your eggs in the basket for a bonus and to be honest unfair on the player. He can still be played in but you need at a minimum, two established strikers who can mostly play all being even.
Most of us know that so it is logical Garner knows that with bells on. The only person who doesn't seems to me to be Sandgaard. But that is understandable because he is clearly pretty thick when it comes to football. If only he knew it or had the strength of character to admit he doesn't. When he came in, he was throwing money about. I didn't like it but if you throw enough mud at the wall, some can stick, however I didn't expect it to suddenly stop. The worst of all worlds. He has failed, he will never succeed, and he has to walk.
From a fans point of view, it was easy to see before the season started that scoring goals was going to be hard. Yes, Garner is right to suggest extra money was needed but I think some responsibility or blame does have to go towards recruitment. I believe players in lower leagues are good enough for league one football.
Sandgaard's new 'break even' approach has sold him short, but Garner's continual whining and self- justificatory comments are wearing thin.
His job is to get the best out of the players available to him and comments like this are most unlikely to achieve that objective:“We’re not strong enough. We’ve not got the depth to compete at the top end of this division. That’s a fact..." We all know the squad is thin - like most clubs in this division - but his remarks seem primarily directed towards arse-covering and trying to protect his reputation; most importantly, I suspect that is how the players will see it as well.
His assertion that Port Vale's performance was "anti-football" was petulant and well out of order. It's no coincidence that that it comes after one of our worst performances for an extremely long time and hot on the heels of two very fortunate results at Stevenage and Burton - clubs with a core support of around 2,000, whose budgets are minuscule in comparison to ours.
Garner needs to knuckle down, demonstrate some tactical flexibility and find a way to get a tune out of these players. Five wins in nineteen league games tells its own story.
With respect Garner is a very good young Manager and far better than the last three. Our owner is a typical Ego driven wannabe And is not financially big enough to turn this Club into a decent Championship team let alone a premier league team. With the right financial backing I think Garner would be a good Charlton Manager 👍👍👍
On what basis is Garner better than Bowyer? He's never won promotion in his career and never managed above League One.
Lee Bowyer was a great Player and I am a big Fan. Are you saying he would do a better job than Garner ? or are you saying he would get better investment or backing from our clubs owner ?
Sandgaard's new 'break even' approach has sold him short, but Garner's continual whining and self- justificatory comments are wearing thin.
His job is to get the best out of the players available to him and comments like this are most unlikely to achieve that objective:“We’re not strong enough. We’ve not got the depth to compete at the top end of this division. That’s a fact..." We all know the squad is thin - like most clubs in this division - but his remarks seem primarily directed towards arse-covering and trying to protect his reputation; most importantly, I suspect that is how the players will see it as well.
His assertion that Port Vale's performance was "anti-football" was petulant and well out of order. It's no coincidence that that it comes after one of our worst performances for an extremely long time and hot on the heels of two very fortunate results at Stevenage and Burton - clubs with a core support of around 2,000, whose budgets are minuscule in comparison to ours.
Garner needs to knuckle down, demonstrate some tactical flexibility and find a way to get a tune out of these players. Five wins in nineteen league games tells its own story.
I agree that this is one of his motivations. My question is how this bunch could be corralled any better. Garner has an idea, a philosophy. He also has 0.5 strikers available. Why not cover his own arse? He's been let down, betrayed, stuffed.
Totally agree, it might be worth putting yourself in Garner's shoes, he's been lied to, how would anyone feel, if a job offered did not match the job description. Days may be numbered for either Garner or Sandgaard, I'm hoping it's the latter.
Sandgaard's new 'break even' approach has sold him short, but Garner's continual whining and self- justificatory comments are wearing thin.
His job is to get the best out of the players available to him and comments like this are most unlikely to achieve that objective:“We’re not strong enough. We’ve not got the depth to compete at the top end of this division. That’s a fact..." We all know the squad is thin - like most clubs in this division - but his remarks seem primarily directed towards arse-covering and trying to protect his reputation; most importantly, I suspect that is how the players will see it as well.
His assertion that Port Vale's performance was "anti-football" was petulant and well out of order. It's no coincidence that that it comes after one of our worst performances for an extremely long time and hot on the heels of two very fortunate results at Stevenage and Burton - clubs with a core support of around 2,000, whose budgets are minuscule in comparison to ours.
Garner needs to knuckle down, demonstrate some tactical flexibility and find a way to get a tune out of these players. Five wins in nineteen league games tells its own story.
With respect Garner is a very good young Manager and far better than the last three. Our owner is a typical Ego driven wannabe And is not financially big enough to turn this Club into a decent Championship team let alone a premier league team. With the right financial backing I think Garner would be a good Charlton Manager 👍👍👍
On what basis is Garner better than Bowyer? He's never won promotion in his career and never managed above League One.
Lee Bowyer was a great Player and I am a big Fan. Are you saying he would do a better job than Garner ? or are you saying he would get better investment or backing from our clubs owner ?
what actually are you saying ?????
I am saying that Bowyer was a better manager than Garner currently is, based purely off of his managerial record. I don't think there can be any argument about that.
I can see that Sandgaard is going for break even, and as a result of not building huge debt the results will suffer, crowds will diminish, but hopefully the club won't go bust, eventually some kind of equilibrium will be reached, maybe after relegation.
This won't happen, because it can't. It's the same craziness which imagines we lose less money in L1 than the Championship. This is because you cannot eliminate the fixed costs or reduce the variable costs to a level at which the business stabilises.
surely the biggest cost is player wages. The higher you go, the better players you need and they will want paying accordingly .. I'll wager very few, if any Championship clubs make a profit whereas small LI and L2 clubs can get by with very careful cost control .. these are guesses .. Another guess, Championship football is much more expensive for owners than L1 football, simply because, as said player wages will be much higher in the higher division
Interesting thread to read through. I’ve not posted on football matters for a bit. My own tuppence worth on the various issues that are floating around are as follows and (to be topical) in no particular order:
1. Ben has clearly been taken for a ride by TS. He is repeating what has been obvious to us all for some time.
2. Whether he is wise to be saying so at such length and with such vitriol is questionable and depends on his motive. If he is trying to nudge the owner towards a spending spree he is a poor reader of the room. If he is preparing the ground for his own exit he’s doing a grand job although sullying his reputation a little in trying to preserve it (i.e. coming across as a whining little shit). Either way if I was a player at the moment I’d be rocking up to training tomorrow with a bit of a chip on my shoulder.
3. McGrandles was clearly signed when it was believed that JFC and Dobson would be leaving alongside Gilbey. It is beyond belief that the first two are still here until we realise that beyond these walls JFC is probably regarded as a risky crock and we see a lot in Dobbo that I suspect outsiders don’t (in plain language I believe that we overrate him as he has been a standout in a team of duffers). All of that said, unlike some of our signings McShambles came with a pedigree (I had actually heard of him!) but he has disappointed massively.
4. Are we better off than last season despite the league tabe suggesting otherwise? Yes and no. Despite being a legend and a good guy, I sadly doubt that Jacko has a sterling managerial career before him. Just don’t think he’s cut out for it. When we have our first choice 11 on the field we are easier on the eye than last year. Garnerball has had its moments although whether it’s a system that deserves it’s own name is pretty debatable. He’s not the messiah folks. We’re seeing pretty much what Swindon fans warned us we would get. I’m not convinced by him but I’m reserving judgement until (even though it looking increasingly unlikely) he gets a fairer crack of the whip from the owner. As for the squad, I detested last year’s group. We pretty much got the night of the long knives that we wanted and this year’s intake seem on the whole like a better bunch of guys. But as someone said, the litmus test is assembling a squad that could cut it in the league above and I do not see a single one that could unquestionably meet that standard next season. There are a few that might but they are loanees (JRS and Sess). The rest (and I’m afraid I’m including gorgeous George and Fraser in this) are, at best, middle ranking league 1 players which, funnily enough, is where we find ourselves. Only TS, MS and Gallen can answer for why we have a squad with such glaring deficiencies. We have two senior centre forwards who are both crocks, (albeit using two very different definitions of “crock” respectively), a glaring hole at left back, a reliance on flatter to deceive merchants like Kirk and CBT and two senior goalies who appear to both lack something.
5. What is it with us and injuries? There’s bad luck and then there’s the volume and frequency that we seem to get season after season. Are we cursed? (don’t believe in that shite myself). Are our training methods/pitch/medical staff questionable? (Too many professionals would need to be doing something wrong for that to hold much water). Do we consistently find ourselves in a market where we are buying on the cheap players who are cheap for a reason? Yep. Probably that one gov.
6. We are already in nowhere land this season and it’s only November. I doubt we’ll be relegated (there really is some shite in this league although we seem incapable of beating it!) and the play offs will be out of reach if we get another couple of inevitable injuries and/or we get an owner//manager meltdown. For those hoping for a January spending spree I can only say that Santa doesn’t exist (sorry children!).
7. A number of lifelong fans are making “that’s it for me” noises on social media. A bit too “drama-queen” for me. You never give up on your club for real. But apathy is a bigger menace than anger and we are in danger of becoming gradually worn down. There isn’t the outraged anger against Sandgaard that there was against Duchatelet. I think we all believe that Tommy boy will be gone soon and he just isn’t that detestable. But year after year of league 1 mediocrity and the gradual demolition of the fabric of our club is taking its toll. Add to that the marketing strategy that only this week has seen the twin highlights of a “buy seven get none free” campaign and a Black Friday sale of our kit manufacturer’s stuff that features absolutely nothing of relevance to Charlton (and still at bonkers prices). You can’t make this stuff up you really can’t.
There. I’ve got that lot off my mind. COYR.
Sandgard and Garner need to go.
We need a SANDGARD OUT movement.
Any idea who would want to buy us?
That’s the problem with my argument.
Not another fake sheikh please, but someone said Mike Ashley ?
Interesting thread to read through. I’ve not posted on football matters for a bit. My own tuppence worth on the various issues that are floating around are as follows and (to be topical) in no particular order:
1. Ben has clearly been taken for a ride by TS. He is repeating what has been obvious to us all for some time.
2. Whether he is wise to be saying so at such length and with such vitriol is questionable and depends on his motive. If he is trying to nudge the owner towards a spending spree he is a poor reader of the room. If he is preparing the ground for his own exit he’s doing a grand job although sullying his reputation a little in trying to preserve it (i.e. coming across as a whining little shit). Either way if I was a player at the moment I’d be rocking up to training tomorrow with a bit of a chip on my shoulder.
3. McGrandles was clearly signed when it was believed that JFC and Dobson would be leaving alongside Gilbey. It is beyond belief that the first two are still here until we realise that beyond these walls JFC is probably regarded as a risky crock and we see a lot in Dobbo that I suspect outsiders don’t (in plain language I believe that we overrate him as he has been a standout in a team of duffers). All of that said, unlike some of our signings McShambles came with a pedigree (I had actually heard of him!) but he has disappointed massively.
4. Are we better off than last season despite the league tabe suggesting otherwise? Yes and no. Despite being a legend and a good guy, I sadly doubt that Jacko has a sterling managerial career before him. Just don’t think he’s cut out for it. When we have our first choice 11 on the field we are easier on the eye than last year. Garnerball has had its moments although whether it’s a system that deserves it’s own name is pretty debatable. He’s not the messiah folks. We’re seeing pretty much what Swindon fans warned us we would get. I’m not convinced by him but I’m reserving judgement until (even though it looking increasingly unlikely) he gets a fairer crack of the whip from the owner. As for the squad, I detested last year’s group. We pretty much got the night of the long knives that we wanted and this year’s intake seem on the whole like a better bunch of guys. But as someone said, the litmus test is assembling a squad that could cut it in the league above and I do not see a single one that could unquestionably meet that standard next season. There are a few that might but they are loanees (JRS and Sess). The rest (and I’m afraid I’m including gorgeous George and Fraser in this) are, at best, middle ranking league 1 players which, funnily enough, is where we find ourselves. Only TS, MS and Gallen can answer for why we have a squad with such glaring deficiencies. We have two senior centre forwards who are both crocks, (albeit using two very different definitions of “crock” respectively), a glaring hole at left back, a reliance on flatter to deceive merchants like Kirk and CBT and two senior goalies who appear to both lack something.
5. What is it with us and injuries? There’s bad luck and then there’s the volume and frequency that we seem to get season after season. Are we cursed? (don’t believe in that shite myself). Are our training methods/pitch/medical staff questionable? (Too many professionals would need to be doing something wrong for that to hold much water). Do we consistently find ourselves in a market where we are buying on the cheap players who are cheap for a reason? Yep. Probably that one gov.
6. We are already in nowhere land this season and it’s only November. I doubt we’ll be relegated (there really is some shite in this league although we seem incapable of beating it!) and the play offs will be out of reach if we get another couple of inevitable injuries and/or we get an owner//manager meltdown. For those hoping for a January spending spree I can only say that Santa doesn’t exist (sorry children!).
7. A number of lifelong fans are making “that’s it for me” noises on social media. A bit too “drama-queen” for me. You never give up on your club for real. But apathy is a bigger menace than anger and we are in danger of becoming gradually worn down. There isn’t the outraged anger against Sandgaard that there was against Duchatelet. I think we all believe that Tommy boy will be gone soon and he just isn’t that detestable. But year after year of league 1 mediocrity and the gradual demolition of the fabric of our club is taking its toll. Add to that the marketing strategy that only this week has seen the twin highlights of a “buy seven get none free” campaign and a Black Friday sale of our kit manufacturer’s stuff that features absolutely nothing of relevance to Charlton (and still at bonkers prices). You can’t make this stuff up you really can’t.
Comments
His job is to get the best out of the players available to him and comments like this are most unlikely to achieve that objective: “We’re not strong enough. We’ve not got the depth to compete at the top end of this division. That’s a fact..." We all know the squad is thin - like most clubs in this division - but his remarks seem primarily directed towards arse-covering and trying to protect his reputation; most importantly, I suspect that is how the players will see it as well.
His assertion that Port Vale's performance was "anti-football" was petulant and well out of order. It's no coincidence that that it comes after one of our worst performances for an extremely long time and hot on the heels of two very fortunate results at Stevenage and Burton - clubs with a core support of around 2,000, whose budgets are minuscule in comparison to ours.
Garner needs to knuckle down, demonstrate some tactical flexibility and find a way to get a tune out of these players. Five wins in nineteen league games tells its own story.
Manager and far better than the last three.
Our owner is a typical Ego driven wannabe
And is not financially big enough to turn this
Club into a decent Championship team let alone a premier league team.
With the right financial backing I think Garner would be a good Charlton Manager 👍👍👍
Demonstrating some sort of tactical flexibility might be a start. At the risk of understatement, Inniss and Lavelle are not natural ball players, so passing the ball sideways ad infinitum between the two of them and allowing the opposition to get comfortably in shape is not a smart play. Things will improve when we get O'Connell and Leaburn back but, in the meantime, Garner has to find a way of getting the best from what he has available.
He also needs to stop whining about the style of play adopted by opponents, as it comes across as petty sour grapes.
We need someone in front of them like John McGoven, get it and give it FOWARD. Which is why, IMO, neither Adkins nor Garner were overly keen to play Dobson.
We can't play without Dobson. Therefore the logical conclusion is we can't play out from the back. Jackson knew that, so didn't try.
That leaves the question of how do we spend what money we do have, and for me the very last thing you cut is the Academy.
So that brings me on to managing the situation.
One thought in the back of my mind strangely enough is how did Jackson get such good results from Adkins team until he got the job? I believe a lot of it is to do with the players basically trying harder, fighting more, and upping their game.
Now Garner says we're running on fumes, well on the evidence of yesterday it wasn't so much about running out of petrol in the tank as it was about the team having had a collective whiff of chloroform. Something the manager shouldn't let happen.
If we are going to lose because Sandgaard is going for break even so be it, but where in that is the explanation for the manager putting out a team that doesn't even try? Even if the players are crap (which most of ours aren't)?
How about the 1000 or so fans that turn out at places like Stevenage, Burton and Port Vale? What does Garner thing they're running on? Those fans are running on scarce resources during a financial crisis but those heroes are trying, those are their loyal fumes, loyal fans. They deserve more respect that they got yesterday!
And then the ridiculous comment about Port Vale being anti football.
Really?
Like anti football but pro three juicy points is the reality.
We could do with being a bit more anti football if we got points on the board.
I accept that Sandgaard is a big problem, but until somebody else fronts up the dosh we have to make do.
Garner moaning is simply giving the players an excuse not to bother that much. I suggest that Ben Garner ups his game to the level of the loyal travelling faithful.
Talking of which, any Addicks fan at Plymouth on Tuesday is a totally mad hero worth 100 of me.
We are slated to play Fulham in an U21 on Tuesday, as well as putting out a team at Plymouth that evening, so let me give this advice to Mr Garner, whatever happens this week, make sure you put out a snorting, fearsome, competitive hungry team against Stockport on Saturday. If we're destined to lose to Stockport I want to see us go down with a fight, not like the chloroform zombies we saw yesterday.
I can see that. I wish Sandgaard would speculate for success.
My post was mainly about the reaction of Garner within our context.
Thomas's blinkered view of what hard shot Martin can do in recruiting players with absolutely no experience, says it all.
It's very similar to when Sandgaard came in. Everyone was blind to the absolute nonsense of it all.
I called upstairs to my son, "How did we get on?" "Lost 1 0". "How did we play? "Lousy". That was the end of that conversation.
As for his comments about the playing personnel... he's not wrong is he? It's what we all think and know. Too much deadwood hanging around and too many players playing way below expectations.
We simply roll from one c@ck up to another don’t we…? We have no divine right to higher level football, but we should rightly expect a competitive assault on promotion. I actually quite like the overall Garner style of football, but for the fact we have non-footballing centre halves in Inniss and Lavelle which make assured quicker passing across and out the back painfully laboured and risky, while at the other end, I can only now assume that Stockley is carrying some nasty lingering side effect to his last most serious injury as he is not a patch on the player we have seen. I initially thought the new formation and style were the issue for him. It looks like there may be another root cause?
Anyhow, all of that rambling to say, hopefully Ben’s public statement begins to pile some pressure on TS and if he cannot afford or is not willing to invest properly any longer, I hope his ego can step aside and interested party conversations can be taken seriously with a view to change in ownership. We are going nowhere like this and if the rot of apathy that I am reading becomes more deep rooted, we really are looking down a barrel of doom.
We are getting to a point where we need to decide whether we can help influence anything as fans…? Perhaps after we see the next 8 weeks play out.
Most of us know that so it is logical Garner knows that with bells on. The only person who doesn't seems to me to be Sandgaard. But that is understandable because he is clearly pretty thick when it comes to football. If only he knew it or had the strength of character to admit he doesn't. When he came in, he was throwing money about. I didn't like it but if you throw enough mud at the wall, some can stick, however I didn't expect it to suddenly stop. The worst of all worlds. He has failed, he will never succeed and he has to walk.
Fan.
Are you saying he would do a better job than Garner ?
or are you saying he would get better investment
or backing from our clubs owner ?
what actually are you saying ?????
Another guess, Championship football is much more expensive for owners than L1 football, simply because, as said player wages will be much higher in the higher division
Not another fake sheikh please, but someone said Mike Ashley ?