Lineker and Attenborough

bobmunro

IdleHans said:

Cloudworm said:

Haven't read the whole thread, but my view is that if you are on Lineker's side, you should absolutely not be cancelling your direct debit etc. The BBC needs to be taken back, not defunded. It's the thing feared most by the media owning billionaires like Murdoch. They can't buy it and control it. (All the views on Twitter and Lineker too). The problem is that it is currently headed up by one of their rats and it is his appointment that was the crux of the impartiality issue, not a personal tweet from a sports presenter.

I'm sure this view has even voiced previously, so apologies. Just in case though 

Although I have cancelled my DD to make a small point I think you're right.
Those at the top of the BBC are government lackeys but I don't want to undermine the BBC as a whole which I think, like the health service, is a valuable but vulnerable institution, one which gives Britain a presence far wider than its size alone would merit.
However, the ways in which you can express your contempt for the Tory pricks dismantling the BBC are limited, and this is a way of demonstrating that contempt and advising my MP that I've taken some action in protest.
It probably won't cost the BBC any lost revenue as the quarter's DD has just been taken, and if changes are made by the end of May then I'll put it back in place.

100%

IdleHans

ME14addick said:

IdleHans said:

Cloudworm said:

Haven't read the whole thread, but my view is that if you are on Lineker's side, you should absolutely not be cancelling your direct debit etc. The BBC needs to be taken back, not defunded. It's the thing feared most by the media owning billionaires like Murdoch. They can't buy it and control it. (All the views on Twitter and Lineker too). The problem is that it is currently headed up by one of their rats and it is his appointment that was the crux of the impartiality issue, not a personal tweet from a sports presenter.

I'm sure this view has even voiced previously, so apologies. Just in case though 

Although I have cancelled my DD to make a small point I think you're right.
Those at the top of the BBC are government lackeys but I don't want to undermine the BBC as a whole which I think, like the health service, is a valuable but vulnerable institution, one which gives Britain a presence far wider than its size alone would merit.
However, the ways in which you can express your contempt for the Tory pricks dismantling the BBC are limited, and this is a way of demonstrating that contempt and advising my MP that I've taken some action in protest.
It probably won't cost the BBC any lost revenue as the quarter's DD has just been taken, and if changes are made by the end of May then I'll put it back in place.

The Government would love to privatise the BBC and not paying your licence fee will only result in a fine for you.

Not if I don't put the telly on

ME14addick

SporadicAddick said:

whatever your views (and I sense a majority position on this forum at least), the BBC and Lineker quickly need to de-escalate this, and that will involve short term compromises from both and a robust and public review of policy. Entrenched positions from both sides are not helpful.

There should be no compromise on free speech that highlights the use of language designed to encourage hate and division. 

Gary Lineker did not air his views on MOTD, he did it on a completely separate platform i.e. Twitter.  

soapboxsam

PragueAddick said:

Another example of the internal chaos at the BBC is that they have scored this massive own goal with Attenborough, yet tomorrow night will see the 2nd part of Paul Whitehouse’s brilliant broadside against the privatised water companies filling our rivers and beaches with shit. I know which one of those two programmes is going to be more damaging to the Tories in the next General Election. 

Don’t miss it, btw. BBC2, 20.00. Plenty of time afterwards to go switch your water supplier…oh, hang on….

This:
I heard Paul Whitehouse and a scientist speak about this terrible situation with the pumping of raw sewage in our rivers and streams on BBC Radio 5 on Thursday.

It's cheaper than treating it when we have a certain amount of rain.
Shocking that private water companies are allowed to pollute our water while millions are earned by the people at the top of these companies in bonuses instead of reinvesting in modern technology that is available and used in other countries.

The utilities should always be non profit making.

SporadicAddick

ME14addick said:

SporadicAddick said:

whatever your views (and I sense a majority position on this forum at least), the BBC and Lineker quickly need to de-escalate this, and that will involve short term compromises from both and a robust and public review of policy. Entrenched positions from both sides are not helpful.

There should be no compromise on free speech that highlights the use of language designed to encourage hate and division. 

Gary Lineker did not air his views on MOTD, he did it on a completely separate platform i.e. Twitter.  

 So do you disagree with the point I made?

IdleHans

Looks as if Football Focus has been replaced by Bargain Hunt. Steve Gallen and Martin Sandgaard trawl the lower leagues looking for cheap footballers that they can move on quickly for a few quid profit. Sadly most of them end up in The Repair Shop instead.

MuttleyCAFC

se9addick said:

This is clearly a ridiculous situation, and the outcry is very understandable. It does strike me however that if this was a case of a BBC presenter with right leaning political views (under whatever form of contract) comparing Labour policies and rhetoric as similar to Naziism then many of the same people up in arms about Lineker’s censorship would be calling for that right wing presenter or to be similarly censored. 

I think people, on both sides of the spectrum,  care less about “freedom of speech” and more about ensuring that speech is only permitted to say things they agree with.

I'm glad you have made this point because it is clearly a load of B. A number of BBC presenters have made right wing comments and people have not demanded they be sacked. An example from my perspective is I continued to watch Jeremy Clarkson and enjoy his programmes despite him saying some controversial right wing things. He was sacked because he punched one of the crew and nobody was calling for it. I was disapointed when he left because I enjoyed Top Gear so if you want to put false claims on other people carry on but dont expect it to be true because you have made it up.

I recall Lineker made an anti Corbyn tweet and nobody was calling for him to be sacked. This sadly for you is a fact.

PragueAddick

SporadicAddick said:

ME14addick said:

SporadicAddick said:

whatever your views (and I sense a majority position on this forum at least), the BBC and Lineker quickly need to de-escalate this, and that will involve short term compromises from both and a robust and public review of policy. Entrenched positions from both sides are not helpful.

There should be no compromise on free speech that highlights the use of language designed to encourage hate and division. 

Gary Lineker did not air his views on MOTD, he did it on a completely separate platform i.e. Twitter.  

 So do you disagree with the point I made?

If I may butt in here @SporadicAddick, I agree in principle with your point myself, but there is one huge practical flaw. You called for 

"a robust and public review of policy."

Absolutely. 100%. But really, do you believe that can be conducted, freely and fairly, under this government and with that line up at the top of the BBC?

Chizz

https://twitter.com/LostVoiceGuy/status/1634510666269638658?s=20

rananegra

On the Paul Whitehouse thing, the govt have a bill to remove all EU derived law and funnily enough, it will mean that water companies don't need to tell anyone when they pump sewage in to rivers or the sea. 

I'm fairly cynical about our political classes to start with, but this is all about allowing American levels of pollution, that in the end we will all end up paying for.  

killerandflash

IdleHans said:

Looks as if Football Focus has been replaced by Bargain Hunt. Steve Gallen and Martin Sandgaard trawl the lower leagues looking for cheap footballers that they can move on quickly for a few quid profit. Sadly most of them end up in The Repair Shop instead.

I hope Crystal Palace will be appearing on Pointless this evening.

ME14addick

SporadicAddick said:

ME14addick said:

SporadicAddick said:

whatever your views (and I sense a majority position on this forum at least), the BBC and Lineker quickly need to de-escalate this, and that will involve short term compromises from both and a robust and public review of policy. Entrenched positions from both sides are not helpful.

There should be no compromise on free speech that highlights the use of language designed to encourage hate and division. 

Gary Lineker did not air his views on MOTD, he did it on a completely separate platform i.e. Twitter.  

 So do you disagree with the point I made?

I disagree that Gary Lineker should comprise on his stance.

bobmunro

Match of the Day pundit Ian Wright has said he'll quit the BBC if it "gets rid" of Lineker.

"If they get rid of Gary Lineker, I'm out, I'm gone, I'm not staying there," he said on the latest edition of his podcast Wrighty's House.

"On his own platform, he should be able to say what he wants to say," the former Arsenal player said.

Wright also said he agreed with Lineker's tweet about the government's new asylum bill.

He said the row was "the prefect distraction for this government".

"They've got no empathy" and "the most vulnerable ones are always the ones that suffer," he added.

"He [Lineker] is so right with what's he's saying."

Chizz

I wonder who they're going to get to present The Big Match on Saturday nights from next season on ITV..?

seth plum

I heard a lad say that today the Rak Saki chant will become

#Gary Lineker nail on head
   He hates fascists#

valleynick66

All depends on what his contract / the BBC governing policies allow him to say surely. 

Didn’t Andrew Marr when he heft relatively recently cite concerns over what he has been previously allowed to say / not say?

Id suggest many employers these days have social media policies for workers and I know for example it’s best to be very cautious on anything which might reflect adversely on my employer. 

Whether we like it or not the BBC is unique and slightly different from other broadcasters. 

CharltonMadrid

Wonder if the BBC presenters walkout will extend from sports to other shows. 

Valley11

Cloudworm said:

Haven't read the whole thread, but my view is that if you are on Lineker's side, you should absolutely not be cancelling your direct debit etc. The BBC needs to be taken back, not defunded. It's the thing feared most by the media owning billionaires like Murdoch. They can't buy it and control it. (All the views on Twitter and Lineker too). The problem is that it is currently headed up by one of their rats and it is his appointment that was the crux of the impartiality issue, not a personal tweet from a sports presenter.

I'm sure this view has even voiced previously, so apologies. Just in case though 

🎯 

ME14addick

The Paul Whitehouse programme also highlighted the effects of fertilsers and animal waste which runs off fields into our waterways, promoting the growth of algae and killing off all other life. This is one of the problems that David Attenborough wanted to highlight in his new series, so it is strange that the BBC wants to side-line his programme. Perhaps the anger caused by the complete disregard for the health of our waterways has worried the Government and they want to shut down greater awareness of this terrible practice.

IanJRO

The_Organiser said:

IanJRO said:

palarsehater said:

To label the bbc right wing is definately todays funny 

Not sure there is anything funny in a state broadcaster bowing to the pressure of a right wing populist government

Was it not the other way for many years before? And right leaning people felt similarly aggrieved with their stance then. 

Just like the govt having a firmer approach to illegal immigration now. Go back to the early Blair years when the govt openly implemented  what was effectively an open door policy on immigration which a lot of people also  felt was a bad move.

The concerns of some of the general public are not centred purely on current numbers we may or may not be taking, it’s the compounded impact of years of immigration targeting a multicultural society that really has not and does not work in a lot of deprived areas. It’s the impact of that on local infrastructure and public services. Now immigration is not the only factor, it’s years of underfunding too, of course. But when joe bloggs can never get a doctors appointment and when they do the room is full off people clearly not originally from these shores, the perception becomes ingrained in the eyes of those people.

Don't really want to get too much into this here but I have to call out the idea that you can tell that room full of people are 'clearly not from these shores'. 

Of course there is a debate to be had on how immigration has been handled over decades and around the funding of public services to support population growth but the issue here is a government actively vilifying people including those seeking asylum and a media happy to help stoke the flames of hate.

seth plum

Isn’t social media anything that anybody posts on the internet that can be seen by random people?

SporadicAddick

ME14addick said:

SporadicAddick said:

ME14addick said:

SporadicAddick said:

whatever your views (and I sense a majority position on this forum at least), the BBC and Lineker quickly need to de-escalate this, and that will involve short term compromises from both and a robust and public review of policy. Entrenched positions from both sides are not helpful.

There should be no compromise on free speech that highlights the use of language designed to encourage hate and division. 

Gary Lineker did not air his views on MOTD, he did it on a completely separate platform i.e. Twitter.  

 So do you disagree with the point I made?

I disagree that Gary Lineker should comprise on his stance.

He can’t compromise on his stance, he has already made it. He needs to compromise on his use of twitter in the short term to get everyone around the table.

SELR_addicks

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1634522728781819904

PragueAddick

I have no access to Sky anymore so until last night I had never heard of Kaveh Solhekol. Please enjoy his excoriating summary of the multiple hypocrises of the current situation. I particularly enjoyed the reference to Gibb. Top work, Mr Solhekol.

https://twitter.com/SkyKaveh/status/1634288030658842641?s=20

The_Organiser

ME14addick said:

SporadicAddick said:

ME14addick said:

SporadicAddick said:

whatever your views (and I sense a majority position on this forum at least), the BBC and Lineker quickly need to de-escalate this, and that will involve short term compromises from both and a robust and public review of policy. Entrenched positions from both sides are not helpful.

There should be no compromise on free speech that highlights the use of language designed to encourage hate and division. 

Gary Lineker did not air his views on MOTD, he did it on a completely separate platform i.e. Twitter.  

 So do you disagree with the point I made?

I disagree that Gary Lineker should comprise on his stance.

If, in a parallel universe, Lineker had said something along the lines of “fully agree with this  govt policy, seems the language is more aligned to nazi Germany”

Would there have been a public outcry, led by the left and calls for him to resign/be sacked?

Or would people stick by their fundamental stance, as let’s be honest what he said and is clearly implying, is pretty extreme for such a public figurehead in this day and age.

bobmunro

valleynick66 said:

All depends on what his contract / the BBC governing policies allow him to say surely. 

Didn’t Andrew Marr when he heft relatively recently cite concerns over what he has been previously allowed to say / not say?

Id suggest many employers these days have social media policies for workers and I know for example it’s best to be very cautious on anything which might reflect adversely on my employer. 

Whether we like it or not the BBC is unique and slightly different from other broadcasters. 

Yes they do - I do. The two main points in our policy are:

1. Do not make comments that may bring the Company into disrepute.

2. You must make it clear that any opinions you express are your personal views and you do not claim them to represent the Company's opinions.

If GL worked for my mob he would not be in breach of my SM policy.

InspectorSands

No Fighting Talk on 5 Live this morning, so Colin Murray’s taking action too.

Valley11

The reaction to all this is heartening. Something populist like football has actually made people stop staring at a squirrel taking a shit on You Tube and actual engage with politics. The gradual erosion of freedoms and increase in media control has been allowed to happen because we’re all so apathetic.
But you fuck with our football at your peril. 
Hopefully this sounds the death knell for this government. And the best bit; it was probably them who orchestrated it. 

RaplhMilne

If he is in breach of his contract with the BBC then he is in the wrong. He willingly signed the contract to be one of the highest paid people at the BBC. 

Let’s be honest, are the whole lot of them going to up and walk away from Match of the day, and other football related BBC programming. 

Their arrogance in believing they are irreplaceable is beyond belief. I bet a queue of ex premier players is around the block looking for a job. 

Stuart_the_Red

cantersaddick said:

Well they've successfully got everyone talking about Gary rather than the actual appalling human rights breaches that we should be focusing on.

Bojo’s dead cat on a table at it’s very finest!