How did Dean Holden do?

AFKABartram

I liked Holden but wouldn’t want him back. As said, shouldn’t have got the job in the first place and only did as he was Rodwell / Methven’s boy. 

Have an unproven suspicion that while he meant well and spoke well, there was a degree of unprofessionalism, lack of discipline about him. I suspect to a degree he still had a mindset of being one of the boys and football has moved on a fair bit from that. 

Wish him well though and I’m sure I’d happily enjoy a beer in his company 

guinnessaddick

Yeah, good job his replacement was so much better.

CAFCTrev

Bedsaddick said:

superdulvertonred said:

Looks like Deano has been sacked at Stevie G assistant in Saudi

Although his record is nearly the same to Jones the football was much better to watch and he never got the backing that Jones has had. Nice guy as well . 

It really wasn't.

agim

Holden lost my support when I saw him trying to play CBT as a wing back. EVERYONE knew CBT didn't defend so what was he thinking? Seems like a nice guy but echoing the above you could see the squad wasn't ready at the start of last season so he seriously got something wrong 

Danny Addick

agim said:

Holden lost my support when I saw him trying to play CBT as a wing back. EVERYONE knew CBT didn't defend so what was he thinking? Seems like a nice guy but echoing the above you could see the squad wasn't ready at the start of last season so he seriously got something wrong 

Struggling managers always seem to throw players in weird positions to try to stop the rot. Bowyer with Smyth at wingback for example

seth plum

Great guy, but it didn’t work out here.
Hope he gets a good next job.

Bedsaddick

CAFCTrev said:

Bedsaddick said:

superdulvertonred said:

Looks like Deano has been sacked at Stevie G assistant in Saudi

Although his record is nearly the same to Jones the football was much better to watch and he never got the backing that Jones has had. Nice guy as well . 

It really wasn't.

There is no way his football was as bad as we are watching now. 

Garrymanilow

Holden was an excellent choice as a caretaker to see things out while a proper manager was sourced. He was the kind of coach to come in, give the players a bit of a lift after Ben Garner's weirdly angry stint as manager and get them playing with a bit more joy and expression instead of being jammed into a tactical system that was never going to work with the available players. The problem is he wasn't caretaker, he was the permanent manager and you can only exist on #vibes for so long before you need an actual leader to run things.

When Holden got given a full pre-season to prepare his team he went for fun and bants instead of actual preparation and I don't think I've ever seen a Charlton team so unfit and unready at the start of the season. When we were getting spaffed 6-0 at Ipswich or somehow losing 3-2 at home against Morecambe you could put it down to a tired team struggling at the end of a difficult season but those first 5 games the next season were atrocious. I still don't know how we beat Orient first game and we conceded goals after the 85th minute in three of those games. For all Appleton psychologically broke the players after a point, Holden is the one who started off the late goals fiasco by not preparing the players for a difficult, physical season. Imagine making such a mess of your job that Michael Appleton is a brief improvement purely because he institutes some standards into training and works on fitness. Humiliating. The problem was that what Appleton brought, which was a brief boost in energy, wasn't enough to cover for his tactical deficiencies and the overall lack of quality and by December things were on a downward trajectory. It took Jones putting in an absolutely rigid way of playing and a solid system to arrest the losses and stop the late goals. Holden was absolutely lost at the start of that season, the team was making the same mistakes over and over and he started panicking and making crazy selection choices to try and fix it.

It's a slightly incredible thing to think about but looking back at Garner's time it wasn't massively dissimilar to Jones' start this season. A bit rubbish overall, too many draws but quite hard to beat and occasionally looking like things might be about to click. In Garner's first 15 games we won 5, drew 7 and lost 3. This season under Jones we've played 14, won 5, drawn 4 and lost 5. Garner went on to not win any of his next 5, losing three and getting a draw that should have been a win off Burton and a draw that somehow wasn't a loss of Ipswich. He also mouthed off about his rubbish signings and got canned for it, but when you look at the players he was given you do feel for him a bit. Not a lot because he was a bit of a penis but still. I don't think we would have gone down under Garner, we just would have been rubbish and quite miserable, but Holden was absolutely going to take us down if he'd been left in place. Holden traded off being the nice man to offset the angry man - just like Adkins did after Bowyer- and having Rak-Sakyi available to contribute far more than his share, and then had nothing when he was properly in charge.

SteveACS

Deano threw himself into being the top man at Charlton. Remember the eating competition against Tracey?

He also scored a goal in a Charlton seniors game at the end of the season, in a game graced by Peter Garland. (And I do mean 'graced', despite his, what I will politely state as, "stature"!) The game also had a hat-trick from some young fellow named Lisbie.

Me and my mates all think that thug at Welling, who crocked Leaburn, probably cost him his job.

Rothko

Always found the man of the people stuff really really jarring

I-SAW-POUSO-PLAY

He was never good enough to be manager of our club and played the PR part well. 

Leuth

Tbf I think Adkins would have done a good job had he not been given the worst summer transfer window possibly in EFL history let alone Charlton's

Smithy

Rothko said:

Always found the man of the people stuff really really jarring

Having met him on the train back from Exeter I'd say it felt 100% genuine. Think he's a really good guy and was loving the opportunity to be here.

Smithy

Also, while he wasn't a very good manager, the squad he had to start that season with was absolutely pathetic. We had a 5'5 League Two standard central midfielder playing in the front 3 at times ffs. Pointless to compare his stats to Jones.

Bedsaddick

When i was diagnosed with Cancer he sent me a personal video message while i was in ICU after major surgery saying he was thinking of me and he invited me and my sons to the training ground for pre season to meet the players when i got better. Sadly he was gone by the time i was well enough to meet him. 

I know that has no aspect on his football managing abilities but that goes way beyond PR and spin and it definitely helped me mentally in my recovery. 

(I work with someone who he plays golf with and when he said to Dean that he works with a Charlton supporter he said he wanted to send a message when he heard about my problems)

If i knew how to put a video on here i would post it. 

KingKinsella

Danny Addick said:

agim said:

Holden lost my support when I saw him trying to play CBT as a wing back. EVERYONE knew CBT didn't defend so what was he thinking? Seems like a nice guy but echoing the above you could see the squad wasn't ready at the start of last season so he seriously got something wrong 

Struggling managers always seem to throw players in weird positions to try to stop the rot. Bowyer with Smyth at wingback for example

That was a real treat.  Recruitment/Injuries really change the picture for managers

KingKinsella

Bedsaddick said:

When i was diagnosed with Cancer he sent me a personal video message while i was in ICU after major surgery saying he was thinking off me and he invited me and my sons to the training ground for pre season to meet the players when i got better. Sadly he was gone by the time i was well enough to meet him. 

I know that has no aspect on his football managing abilities but that goes way beyond PR and spin and it definitely helped me mentally in my recovery. 

(I work with someone who he plays golf with and when he said to Dean that he works with a Charlton supporter he said he wanted to send a message when he heard about my problems)

If i knew how to put a video on here i would post it. 

Respect to him and best wishes to you, hope the worst is behind you

Southendaddick

Think it’s really harsh to say he wasn’t genuine 

Met him in Vilamoura in the summer and I can honestly say he really has a love for Charlton

I wouldn’t want him back as manager though

Rothko

Found it jarring, not that it wasn't genuine, just felt he was trying too hard with it with the comparisons with Salford and SE London for example. 

Redhenry

agim said:

Holden lost my support when I saw him trying to play CBT as a wing back. EVERYONE knew CBT didn't defend so what was he thinking? Seems like a nice guy but echoing the above you could see the squad wasn't ready at the start of last season so he seriously got something wrong 

JJ also did this

fenaddick

Don’t think anyone can doubt he seemed like a decent guy but that doesn’t make you a great manager. Really if you look at successful managers they’re all a bit odd and don’t seem mega friendly. 

Bedsaddick

KingKinsella said:

Bedsaddick said:

When i was diagnosed with Cancer he sent me a personal video message while i was in ICU after major surgery saying he was thinking off me and he invited me and my sons to the training ground for pre season to meet the players when i got better. Sadly he was gone by the time i was well enough to meet him. 

I know that has no aspect on his football managing abilities but that goes way beyond PR and spin and it definitely helped me mentally in my recovery. 

(I work with someone who he plays golf with and when he said to Dean that he works with a Charlton supporter he said he wanted to send a message when he heard about my problems)

If i knew how to put a video on here i would post it. 

Respect to him and best wishes to you, hope the worst is behind you

Thanks. Still fighting it but I'm still here and have no plans on going anywhere soon. #Positivity 

L0rd_M0ntagu3

Nice guy, but I don’t think the current ownership ever intended to give Holden the job full time. That decision was made by Storey and Sandgaard. I remember reading somewhere how unfit the players were at the start of last season, Holden, lovely man, but had the players doing mediation and breathing exercises by the sea in Spain rather than physically preparing. 

Bedsaddick

L0rd_M0ntagu3 said:

Nice guy, but I don’t think the current ownership ever intended to give Holden the job full time. That decision was made by Storey and Sandgaard. I remember reading somewhere how unfit the players were at the start of last season, Holden, lovely man, but had the players doing mediation and breathing exercises by the sea in Spain rather than physically preparing. 

Isn't that how Chuks got injured pre season?

cafcsinger

Garrymanilow said:

Holden was an excellent choice as a caretaker to see things out while a proper manager was sourced. He was the kind of coach to come in, give the players a bit of a lift after Ben Garner's weirdly angry stint as manager and get them playing with a bit more joy and expression instead of being jammed into a tactical system that was never going to work with the available players. The problem is he wasn't caretaker, he was the permanent manager and you can only exist on #vibes for so long before you need an actual leader to run things.

When Holden got given a full pre-season to prepare his team he went for fun and bants instead of actual preparation and I don't think I've ever seen a Charlton team so unfit and unready at the start of the season. When we were getting spaffed 6-0 at Ipswich or somehow losing 3-2 at home against Morecambe you could put it down to a tired team struggling at the end of a difficult season but those first 5 games the next season were atrocious. I still don't know how we beat Orient first game and we conceded goals after the 85th minute in three of those games. For all Appleton psychologically broke the players after a point, Holden is the one who started off the late goals fiasco by not preparing the players for a difficult, physical season. Imagine making such a mess of your job that Michael Appleton is a brief improvement purely because he institutes some standards into training and works on fitness. Humiliating. The problem was that what Appleton brought, which was a brief boost in energy, wasn't enough to cover for his tactical deficiencies and the overall lack of quality and by December things were on a downward trajectory. It took Jones putting in an absolutely rigid way of playing and a solid system to arrest the losses and stop the late goals. Holden was absolutely lost at the start of that season, the team was making the same mistakes over and over and he started panicking and making crazy selection choices to try and fix it.

It's a slightly incredible thing to think about but looking back at Garner's time it wasn't massively dissimilar to Jones' start this season. A bit rubbish overall, too many draws but quite hard to beat and occasionally looking like things might be about to click. In Garner's first 15 games we won 5, drew 7 and lost 3. This season under Jones we've played 14, won 5, drawn 4 and lost 5. Garner went on to not win any of his next 5, losing three and getting a draw that should have been a win off Burton and a draw that somehow wasn't a loss of Ipswich. He also mouthed off about his rubbish signings and got canned for it, but when you look at the players he was given you do feel for him a bit. Not a lot because he was a bit of a penis but still. I don't think we would have gone down under Garner, we just would have been rubbish and quite miserable, but Holden was absolutely going to take us down if he'd been left in place. Holden traded off being the nice man to offset the angry man - just like Adkins did after Bowyer- and having Rak-Sakyi available to contribute far more than his share, and then had nothing when he was properly in charge.

I liked Holden more than most, and thought he was a good man manager but limited tactically, however i think you're being over the top on the first 5 games of last season being 'atrocious'. Results wise it was, but there were such small margins it would be interesting to see what might have happened had things gone slightly differently. 

Orient home - deservedly won without playing great, they had there first shout an hour in or so, not sure why you think we somehow beat them.
Peterboro' away - One of the toughest fixtures of the season, probably deserved to lose but could have quite easily been a draw
Bristol Rovers home - Alfie May comes within an inch of winning the game of us in added time when he shots comes off the post, honestly thought we played quite well.
Port Vale home - Battered them and somehow didn't win thanks to Hector doing Hector things, and Asiimwe having a head loss moment.
Oxford away - Bit of a car crash, can't defend that one - though did play a team who would go on to get promoted. 

My point is i think if Holden/Appleton/Jones were hypothetically all in charge for all of last season we would have finished mid table regardless of who was manager (granted Appleton probably the lowest) because recruitment was so poor. Too much obsession generally on the manager, and not enough on the players/recruitment. We seemed to have assembled mid table squads for 3 years in a row. 

KingKinsella

Garrymanilow said:

Holden was an excellent choice as a caretaker to see things out while a proper manager was sourced. He was the kind of coach to come in, give the players a bit of a lift after Ben Garner's weirdly angry stint as manager and get them playing with a bit more joy and expression instead of being jammed into a tactical system that was never going to work with the available players. The problem is he wasn't caretaker, he was the permanent manager and you can only exist on #vibes for so long before you need an actual leader to run things.

When Holden got given a full pre-season to prepare his team he went for fun and bants instead of actual preparation and I don't think I've ever seen a Charlton team so unfit and unready at the start of the season. When we were getting spaffed 6-0 at Ipswich or somehow losing 3-2 at home against Morecambe you could put it down to a tired team struggling at the end of a difficult season but those first 5 games the next season were atrocious. I still don't know how we beat Orient first game and we conceded goals after the 85th minute in three of those games. For all Appleton psychologically broke the players after a point, Holden is the one who started off the late goals fiasco by not preparing the players for a difficult, physical season. Imagine making such a mess of your job that Michael Appleton is a brief improvement purely because he institutes some standards into training and works on fitness. Humiliating. The problem was that what Appleton brought, which was a brief boost in energy, wasn't enough to cover for his tactical deficiencies and the overall lack of quality and by December things were on a downward trajectory. It took Jones putting in an absolutely rigid way of playing and a solid system to arrest the losses and stop the late goals. Holden was absolutely lost at the start of that season, the team was making the same mistakes over and over and he started panicking and making crazy selection choices to try and fix it.

It's a slightly incredible thing to think about but looking back at Garner's time it wasn't massively dissimilar to Jones' start this season. A bit rubbish overall, too many draws but quite hard to beat and occasionally looking like things might be about to click. In Garner's first 15 games we won 5, drew 7 and lost 3. This season under Jones we've played 14, won 5, drawn 4 and lost 5. Garner went on to not win any of his next 5, losing three and getting a draw that should have been a win off Burton and a draw that somehow wasn't a loss of Ipswich. He also mouthed off about his rubbish signings and got canned for it, but when you look at the players he was given you do feel for him a bit. Not a lot because he was a bit of a penis but still. I don't think we would have gone down under Garner, we just would have been rubbish and quite miserable, but Holden was absolutely going to take us down if he'd been left in place. Holden traded off being the nice man to offset the angry man - just like Adkins did after Bowyer- and having Rak-Sakyi available to contribute far more than his share, and then had nothing when he was properly in charge.

 Is your view of DH pre-season based on ITK or your opinion (?from the stands).

Also  I have read that CAFC has recruited top support staff to keep players fit this season (ie this not available to previous managers) and this is helping reduce strains etc 

 The only fit players Holden could put out had a large % of Academy players. I think a lot of League 1 teams would struggle to carry 1 academy debut/early career, from memory we had 3 int least one of them (with 6 ex academy in total if you include Thomas/ Clare older lags which is the stat I can recall). This accounts for many of the early losses. Also I've read on this site that AM recruitment was down to DH, the single most important "permanent" signings of afew season, Unfortunately for DH AM took afew games to get going missing afew sitters before he started his good form for the club.

 

Appleton was a decent manger at this level and was undone by long-term shortage of strikers due to injury.Results were initially good but turned bad. Tactics etc are only so much use when there's no end product game after game, team effort/enthusiam was sapped and and the fans were unsympathetic/hostile (because he didn't wave his arms around apparently). Did't he get a job at Man Utd?

blackpool72

Leuth said:

Tbf I think Adkins would have done a good job had he not been given the worst summer transfer window possibly in EFL history let alone Charlton's

This.

Chunes

That Adkins team was miserable. I remember in his last match, three of the back four was made up of Gunter, Souare and Lavelle.

killerandflash

I've no idea how good his coaching is, but he seems better suited to be the club stalwart "good cop" coach, rather than the manager. Baffling how we were so unfit at the start of last season.

oohaahmortimer