What is it with this get rid of Holden stuff, we are 5 games in, but the performances against Bristol Rovers and Port Vale, deserved a couple of wins, had we got what we deserved in those two we would be top 10, when we get Fraser, Camara, Leaburn back + hopefully some additions in before Friday then fortunes will turn, should it still prove not, then I will join in with the time to go bit... This is more about lack of investment than the manager...
We were dogshit against Port Vale. What are you on about?
Looks like the Holden Out ! campaigns gaining impetus.
He will probably get the sack, but the underlying problems will remain IMO
Probably not helped by his coaches being relatively inexperienced guys promoted from the under 21s. WTF was that all about ? 1st stages of methvens cost cutting I suppose, promote the youth team into the starting 11 & while we're at it promote the coaches as well thereby avoiding paying out on grizzled experienced guys who know what they're doing at this level.
That's all it is, promote the kids - hope a few of them make it - sell them on - rinse and repeat. Unfortunately for us and these cnut owners, from what I've seen they aren't going enough!
Think they tell our managers at interviews we must play 352 or 433 at all times and without any full backs or wing backs. Absolutely sick of these formations how did oxfords midfield overrun our midfield which looked like 442 most of the time you can’t play 442 nowadays apparently. There top of league now by the way
just watched the highlights. no way their first should have stood, clear handball in the buildup. good finish from May for our goal but defensively we looked poor and Isted doesn’t appear to have made a strong case to take over in goal
Curbs & Brown please. Current management team really not up to it.
For the past seventeen years every time we've had a manager that's failed, or even struggled a bit, the recall Curbs chorus has rung out loud and clear. I have always resisted this. Sometimes, because I wasn't convinced that he still had what we needed; usually because I think just naming someone because they were good for us in the past is a bit lazy; always because I don't wan't his reputation or his relationship with the club sullied. I've got to admit though, the longer this malaise goes on, the more it seems like a worthwhile chance to take. That said, I don't really think the manager is the key problem. We've had plenty of decent managers since Curbs left, but few have done the business for us. The real problem in all this time as been the succession of mad or bad owners, or at best owners that never really understood the gravity of the situation or what an effort it would take to break that gravitational pull. I haven't seen anything from the current lot to suggest that things will get any better regardless of who the manager is. Sadly, I've got that sinking feeling.
I don’t see Holden getting another job after us. Really don’t understand why these owners wanted him.
Along with half this forum that thought he'd be a great manager because he "gets us". Up there today, total shambles. Our most threatening player on the pitch playing left back, and our left back in a centre midfield position. The first half was a pretty much identical performance to the first half we had up there last season (Holden's first game in charge) that time Thomas got taken off at half time, today it was Ness. I think if we lose against Fleetwood next Saturday Deano will be toast and quite rightly so. I get he hasn't had millions to spend. However, he should be getting more of a tune out of these players. That first half Oxford should of been out of sight. Second half we offered a bit more but I certainly had no belief that we would win it.
You get back to 1-1, you don’t go chasing the game like your 3-2 down in April and needing a point for promotion, you manage the game out, and that management comes from the Head Coach. Squad issues aren’t the problem when the basics aren’t being done
You're right. The basics are definitely not being done, as someone mentioned and I also noticed our star striker taking throw ins ?? Our set pieces are abysmal most corners we get awarded are more dangerous for us than the team we are taking them against. Our Free Kicks are often like some kind of parody, a ridiculously obvious dummy act and then a ball that fails to clear the wall or ends up somewhere in the car park. Rinse and Repeat game after game
I had a nice day - watched my mate’s son open for his cricket team, carried his bat, scored 63, they won, only need 9 points now to be champs of their division - had a few beers watching - very enjoyable - only looked at the Charlton score post 2nd half starting
I think that is very telling ……
I had so much positivity before the season started - but already I would rather watch club cricket than this shower of shite
Was it ever thus being a Charlton Athletic fan …………..
I spent my afternoon taking one elderly relative to see another elderly relative. I therefore ended up spending the first half of today's match listening to the commentary on my phone whilst pushing a 95 year old in a wheelchair around a garden centre. For the second half, I decided I'd have more fun if I dispensed with the commentary and just practiced pushing the wheelchair at greater speeds around tighter corners. I can't honestly say that I've found something I'd rather do than watch Charlton, but I can say that for me today's second half was a lot more fun than the first half.
Is McGrandles, a centre mid who HAS played over 100 games and was loved at Lincoln and last season at Cambridge, really a worse option than the clearly knackered and now out of depth Anderson?
Yes, McAmbles is dogshit.
I hate comments like this. Aside from the fact they're just pointlessly nasty, McGrandles has managed to be very good for Lincoln and Cambridge at this level. He's barely played for us, but why is he so much worse? Is it that he's just 'dogshit' or could it be that we manage to repeatedly take players and make them worse? How do we constantly manage to pick up players who should be decent enough and turn them into shells of themselves? That's what we need to figure out because I reckon we're not a million miles away from making Jones, Camara and May look a hell of a lot worse in reality than they did on paper and, more importantly, than they would for someone else
Did you watch the under 21s in midweek? I did and he was probably the worst midfielder on the pitch. I don't care how he's become so shit, but the reality is he isn't the answer, not by a long shot
You've missed the point though. He wasn't bad for Lincoln when he was a big part of them finishing 5th in L1 and making it to the play-off final, and he wasn't bad for Cambridge when he helped turn their midfield around and save themselves from relegation. So why is he here looking bad for our u21s? You should care about why and how because that's the real core issue our football club has. We kill players. Kirk, Lavelle, McGrandles, DJ, Gunter, Watson, Smyth, Schwarz, Stockley, Aneke, Gilbey, Payne, Penney, Levitt, Matt Smith 2, MacGillivray, Lee, Leko, I don't think a single one of them hasn't left our club as an absolute shadow of the player they were before they joined. Some of them were on the up, some of them looked like they had potential and could grow, but every single one of them left Charlton a worse player, and in a fair few cases physically crippled along the way. Sure, maybe some were past it and we didn't realise and you can't get every signing right, but the sheer weight of numbers of players we pick up who only get worse as the weeks go by? We've signed teams' POTYs, players who led the league for chance creation, had been playing a league up or at the very least had been performing well at a L1 level and we torpedo their careers. Some recover and climb back up, but do we think that we just exclusively sign players who are masters of disguise, sometimes playing well for their team for years at a time who then drop the act the second we sign them or is it more likely that there's something seriously, terminally wrong with our coaching and development of footballers? So many players have come to Charlton and seen their careers grind to a halt within 5 games of representing the club and that's the core issue that we need to resolve or this is going to happen forever. Someone associated with the club needs to care how.
This is a stellar post. Chop it into paras though mate, some people will have given it a miss because it looks dense, which is a shame. People need to read that list of players we’ve made worse in the last 4-5 years. It is sobering. I reckon you could add Egbo and O’Connell to that list too. Going back to the Duchatelet era, you can add Vetokele, Buyens, and probably some more if I think hard enough about that era.
So what does that tell us? The Czechs have a saying for it: “The fish rots from the head”. A succession of really shit owners, starting with Duchatelet, have brought us here.
Just got in and can honestly say don’t think I’ve ever been so feed up with Charlton as today.
Holden has to take a lot of blame for today with that starting line up. It looked like he did not have a clue what to do but that line up was never going to get anything. A defence of such young inexperienced players is criminal.
I feel sorry for the kids because we are going to ruin them if we are not careful, they need to be taken out but and given a break but at the moment we can’t do that with all.
We looked better 4,4,2 with c Campbell making a big difference but the 442 was sometimes 4,2,4 and left us open which was the downfall on the counter.
We need a big big week this week but for the first time I’m doubtful we will. We need 5 in and at least 3 of them experienced players not young loans.
Haven’t had a chance to read the thread so apologies if this has already been send but my question is : when do the Americans start getting restless? Methven has clearly sold them a dream and they will surely be looking at these results and realising that in a year they’ll be £20m down and still in League One? Do they pump some money in now or do we spiral into another prolonged shit show that is even worse than the last few due to the amount of parties that now have to be negotiated with to take control of the club? I think it will be sooner rather than later that Methven starts feeling the heat but I’m sure he won’t mind as he’s got his 7%
What is it with this get rid of Holden stuff, we are 5 games in, but the performances against Bristol Rovers and Port Vale, deserved a couple of wins, had we got what we deserved in those two we would be top 10, when we get Fraser, Camara, Leaburn back + hopefully some additions in before Friday then fortunes will turn, should it still prove not, then I will join in with the time to go bit... This is more about lack of investment than the manager...
I totally disagree with you. I didn't see the Bristol Rovers game so can't comment. However, Port Vale were an awful side, not won away since January and we still couldn't put them to bed. Since the 1-0 Win over Orient we've become progressively worse, capped off by that abysmal first half showing today at Oxford with an extremely 'odd' formation / line up. We had a brief rally in the 2nd half to no avail because we ended up losing anyway. The tactics are wrong, the team don't look organised and dare I say it they don't even look motivated. A lot of that falls on the managers shoulders I'm afraid.
Is McGrandles, a centre mid who HAS played over 100 games and was loved at Lincoln and last season at Cambridge, really a worse option than the clearly knackered and now out of depth Anderson?
Yes, McAmbles is dogshit.
I hate comments like this. Aside from the fact they're just pointlessly nasty, McGrandles has managed to be very good for Lincoln and Cambridge at this level. He's barely played for us, but why is he so much worse? Is it that he's just 'dogshit' or could it be that we manage to repeatedly take players and make them worse? How do we constantly manage to pick up players who should be decent enough and turn them into shells of themselves? That's what we need to figure out because I reckon we're not a million miles away from making Jones, Camara and May look a hell of a lot worse in reality than they did on paper and, more importantly, than they would for someone else
Did you watch the under 21s in midweek? I did and he was probably the worst midfielder on the pitch. I don't care how he's become so shit, but the reality is he isn't the answer, not by a long shot
You've missed the point though. He wasn't bad for Lincoln when he was a big part of them finishing 5th in L1 and making it to the play-off final, and he wasn't bad for Cambridge when he helped turn their midfield around and save themselves from relegation. So why is he here looking bad for our u21s? You should care about why and how because that's the real core issue our football club has. We kill players. Kirk, Lavelle, McGrandles, DJ, Gunter, Watson, Smyth, Schwarz, Stockley, Aneke, Gilbey, Payne, Penney, Levitt, Matt Smith 2, MacGillivray, Lee, Leko, I don't think a single one of them hasn't left our club as an absolute shadow of the player they were before they joined. Some of them were on the up, some of them looked like they had potential and could grow, but every single one of them left Charlton a worse player, and in a fair few cases physically crippled along the way. Sure, maybe some were past it and we didn't realise and you can't get every signing right, but the sheer weight of numbers of players we pick up who only get worse as the weeks go by? We've signed teams' POTYs, players who led the league for chance creation, had been playing a league up or at the very least had been performing well at a L1 level and we torpedo their careers. Some recover and climb back up, but do we think that we just exclusively sign players who are masters of disguise, sometimes playing well for their team for years at a time who then drop the act the second we sign them or is it more likely that there's something seriously, terminally wrong with our coaching and development of footballers? So many players have come to Charlton and seen their careers grind to a halt within 5 games of representing the club and that's the core issue that we need to resolve or this is going to happen forever. Someone associated with the club needs to care how.
Is McGrandles, a centre mid who HAS played over 100 games and was loved at Lincoln and last season at Cambridge, really a worse option than the clearly knackered and now out of depth Anderson?
Yes, McAmbles is dogshit.
I hate comments like this. Aside from the fact they're just pointlessly nasty, McGrandles has managed to be very good for Lincoln and Cambridge at this level. He's barely played for us, but why is he so much worse? Is it that he's just 'dogshit' or could it be that we manage to repeatedly take players and make them worse? How do we constantly manage to pick up players who should be decent enough and turn them into shells of themselves? That's what we need to figure out because I reckon we're not a million miles away from making Jones, Camara and May look a hell of a lot worse in reality than they did on paper and, more importantly, than they would for someone else
Did you watch the under 21s in midweek? I did and he was probably the worst midfielder on the pitch. I don't care how he's become so shit, but the reality is he isn't the answer, not by a long shot
You've missed the point though. He wasn't bad for Lincoln when he was a big part of them finishing 5th in L1 and making it to the play-off final, and he wasn't bad for Cambridge when he helped turn their midfield around and save themselves from relegation. So why is he here looking bad for our u21s? You should care about why and how because that's the real core issue our football club has. We kill players. Kirk, Lavelle, McGrandles, DJ, Gunter, Watson, Smyth, Schwarz, Stockley, Aneke, Gilbey, Payne, Penney, Levitt, Matt Smith 2, MacGillivray, Lee, Leko, I don't think a single one of them hasn't left our club as an absolute shadow of the player they were before they joined. Some of them were on the up, some of them looked like they had potential and could grow, but every single one of them left Charlton a worse player, and in a fair few cases physically crippled along the way. Sure, maybe some were past it and we didn't realise and you can't get every signing right, but the sheer weight of numbers of players we pick up who only get worse as the weeks go by? We've signed teams' POTYs, players who led the league for chance creation, had been playing a league up or at the very least had been performing well at a L1 level and we torpedo their careers. Some recover and climb back up, but do we think that we just exclusively sign players who are masters of disguise, sometimes playing well for their team for years at a time who then drop the act the second we sign them or is it more likely that there's something seriously, terminally wrong with our coaching and development of footballers? So many players have come to Charlton and seen their careers grind to a halt within 5 games of representing the club and that's the core issue that we need to resolve or this is going to happen forever. Someone associated with the club needs to care how.
Heartfelt AND bang on GM. I have thought this for years, background staff have come and gone, fuck have they! I am at a loss for a common denominator over the years. If I believed in that sort of stuff, I would say that we are cursed. I am absolutely drained thinking about it!
Can't really blame Holden too much when he is missing Fraser, Camara & Leaburn.....and only have 1 right back & 2 functioning strikers.
And then expecting 18 year old kids playing in their first senior season to step up & be on top of their game for the past month is far too much.
So the fault mainly lies with Sandgaard & SE7 Partners. The former for not investing in the team over the past 2 seasons and letting too many players go without replacing them. And the latter for not picking up the baton on day one & bringing in the senior players we need. Apart from Jones & May we have basically brought in youngsters and loanees. Where are the 28-30 year old experienced pro's ?
We could all see the problem back in May. 10/12 players out of contract / going back from their loan spells & not adequately replacing them - expecting to rely on the U21's to step up. Maybe having 1 or 2 on the bench to come in when needed is fine, but not starting with 3 or 4 every game.
So, as I've said quite a few times this summer.....its now all too little too late. We are already behind the curve ball and so what decent players will want to join us when the manager could be fired and we are a lot closer to a relegation scrap than a top 6 fight.
We have shot ourselves in the foot & any new signings now will just be a sticking plaster.
So if you happen to be reading this Mr Methven ........I fucking told you so.
Lots of defending the manager and excuses for the results but hand on heart is anyone confident that he’s going to turn this around and by turn it around I mean get us in the promotion mix ? It’s sadly already looking like another 9th - 12th finish. I think Holdens never had any success as a manager and doesn’t have the nous to change that. Seems like a smashing bloke and all that but we’re looking worse than dreadful. He’s not the only one to blame that’s for sure but I don’t see anything about his football that gives me hope.
Can't really blame Holden too much when he is missing Fraser, Camara & Leaburn.....and only have 1 right back & 2 functioning strikers.
And then expecting 18 year old kids playing in their first senior season to step up & be on top of their game for the past month is far too much.
So the fault mainly lies with Sandgaard & SE7 Partners. The former for not investing in the team over the past 2 seasons and letting too many players go without replacing them. And the latter for not picking up the baton on day one & bringing in the senior players we need. Apart from Jones & May we have basically brought in youngsters and loanees. Where are the 28-30 year old experienced pro's ?
We could all see the problem back in May. 10/12 players out of contract / going back from their loan spells & not adequately replacing them - expecting to rely on the U21's to step up. Maybe having 1 or 2 on the bench to come in when needed is fine, but not starting with 3 or 4 every game.
So, as I've said quite a few times this summer.....its now all too little too late. We are already behind the curve ball and so what decent players will want to join us when the manager could be fired and we are a lot closer to a relegation scrap than a top 6 fight.
We have shot ourselves in the foot & any new signings now will just be a sticking plaster.
So if you happen to be reading this Mr Methven ........I fucking told you so.
I understand what you are saying but you can blame him for playing Asimwe, Ness and Deji in a team that are already struggling and lacking confidence.
When you pick 3 CBs, hook one after 42 minutes to change the formation, then replace another at HT, sadly it looks like "you don't know what you're doing".
Can't really blame Holden too much when he is missing Fraser, Camara & Leaburn.....and only have 1 right back & 2 functioning strikers.
And then expecting 18 year old kids playing in their first senior season to step up & be on top of their game for the past month is far too much.
So the fault mainly lies with Sandgaard & SE7 Partners. The former for not investing in the team over the past 2 seasons and letting too many players go without replacing them. And the latter for not picking up the baton on day one & bringing in the senior players we need. Apart from Jones & May we have basically brought in youngsters and loanees. Where are the 28-30 year old experienced pro's ?
We could all see the problem back in May. 10/12 players out of contract / going back from their loan spells & not adequately replacing them - expecting to rely on the U21's to step up. Maybe having 1 or 2 on the bench to come in when needed is fine, but not starting with 3 or 4 every game.
So, as I've said quite a few times this summer.....its now all too little too late. We are already behind the curve ball and so what decent players will want to join us when the manager could be fired and we are a lot closer to a relegation scrap than a top 6 fight.
We have shot ourselves in the foot & any new signings now will just be a sticking plaster.
So if you happen to be reading this Mr Methven ........I fucking told you so.
I understand what you are saying but you can blame him for playing Asimwe, Ness and Deji in a team that are already struggling and lacking confidence.
Ness and Deji maybe you have a point but we only have 1 RWB, that's not on Holden
When you pick 3 CBs, hook one after 42 minutes to change the formation, then replace another at HT, sadly it looks like "you don't know what you're doing".
And bring in the fifth one late on too. There's no good reason a team uses 5 centre backs in one match without there being injuries and sending offs
Can't really blame Holden too much when he is missing Fraser, Camara & Leaburn.....and only have 1 right back & 2 functioning strikers.
And then expecting 18 year old kids playing in their first senior season to step up & be on top of their game for the past month is far too much.
So the fault mainly lies with Sandgaard & SE7 Partners. The former for not investing in the team over the past 2 seasons and letting too many players go without replacing them. And the latter for not picking up the baton on day one & bringing in the senior players we need. Apart from Jones & May we have basically brought in youngsters and loanees. Where are the 28-30 year old experienced pro's ?
We could all see the problem back in May. 10/12 players out of contract / going back from their loan spells & not adequately replacing them - expecting to rely on the U21's to step up. Maybe having 1 or 2 on the bench to come in when needed is fine, but not starting with 3 or 4 every game.
So, as I've said quite a few times this summer.....its now all too little too late. We are already behind the curve ball and so what decent players will want to join us when the manager could be fired and we are a lot closer to a relegation scrap than a top 6 fight.
We have shot ourselves in the foot & any new signings now will just be a sticking plaster.
So if you happen to be reading this Mr Methven ........I fucking told you so.
I understand what you are saying but you can blame him for playing Asimwe, Ness and Deji in a team that are already struggling and lacking confidence.
Ness and Deji maybe you have a point but we only have 1 RWB, that's not on Holden
Agree we need an experienced right back and can’t see why Dabo is not signed up. But you play experience around Nathan to guide him through which he needs after last week. Today he is playing again turns round for some experience to help him through and he has deji and ness.
Then hooking deji and ness is not going to help them as well. It’s poor from Holden and seems he is at a loss of what to do.
When you pick 3 CBs, hook one after 42 minutes to change the formation, then replace another at HT, sadly it looks like "you don't know what you're doing".
And bring in the fifth one late on too. There's no good reason a team uses 5 centre backs in one match without there being injuries and sending offs
I think the reason is desperation. It’s depressing stuff.
Little to add to the inevitable posts already made but my main issue is that although we have a wealth of very special young players in the squad, to start so many this afternoon was, IMO, naive. Some might say brave but I'll stick with naive.
Not to say that each & every one of those lads aren't " up to it" but as a collective, they don't have old heads on young bodies IYKWIM, and today it showed. Not enough experienced guys on the pitch for me.
After a desperately disappointing 1st half, the 2nd was a huge improvement with Kanu & Elewere subbed early on.
I was impressed with the cameo from our latest recruit, and Campbell Mk 2, Chem and hope he stays well clear of any knocks as he added guile & determination to the team.
Few further positives, sad to say, but another goal from Alfie was good to see.
But I am less than impressed by Lloyd Jones, I'm afraid. Maybe it's cruel to point a finger at just one player when others were also below par, but I say what I see.
Sadly, some boos rang out at both half & full time which I'm sure were from disappointed & worried away fans but it's clear that something has to change...and soon. Mutterings around the away end that Deano may soon be on borrowed time.
We MUST find a settled team who become more familiar with one another's game through continuity as the skill sets are there on the whole. And any prospective incoming MUST arrive & be integrated toot sweet.
Fanny stating the obvious once again & trying to keep the faith but it's not getting any easier.
One way or another, I sincerely hope this was our last visit to the Kassam where we are doomed before a ball is kicked.
And the feckin M25 coupled with the evil M40 .....there are no words a lady comme moi can repeat !
Got to be honest playing one of the best sides away never thought deep down we would get anything today in parts of the game we more then held our own & had our chances Totally gutted we couldn't hold out for the draw but sadly we done our usual & conceded a late goal
Comments
im bored of new Managers tho. I think we might just be proper shit.
It looks like nobody, from top to bottom, knows what they are doing or how to fix it
but the past four results hasn’t he said the exact same things? “We need to re-group and go again”
We already look lost and out of the promotion race in August.
if we are serious about promotion we have to go to places like Oxford and get a result, regardless of their form.
Fact we lost at home to Bristol and PV makes this feel very numb.
I wouldn’t be shocked if DH is gone by the morning.
So what does that tell us? The Czechs have a saying for it: “The fish rots from the head”. A succession of really shit owners, starting with Duchatelet, have brought us here.
And then expecting 18 year old kids playing in their first senior season to step up & be on top of their game for the past month is far too much.
So the fault mainly lies with Sandgaard & SE7 Partners. The former for not investing in the team over the past 2 seasons and letting too many players go without replacing them. And the latter for not picking up the baton on day one & bringing in the senior players we need. Apart from Jones & May we have basically brought in youngsters and loanees. Where are the 28-30 year old experienced pro's ?
We could all see the problem back in May. 10/12 players out of contract / going back from their loan spells & not adequately replacing them - expecting to rely on the U21's to step up. Maybe having 1 or 2 on the bench to come in when needed is fine, but not starting with 3 or 4 every game.
So, as I've said quite a few times this summer.....its now all too little too late. We are already behind the curve ball and so what decent players will want to join us when the manager could be fired and we are a lot closer to a relegation scrap than a top 6 fight.
We have shot ourselves in the foot & any new signings now will just be a sticking plaster.
So if you happen to be reading this Mr Methven ........I fucking told you so.
Little to add to the inevitable posts already made but my main issue is that although we have a wealth of very special young players in the squad, to start so many this afternoon was, IMO, naive. Some might say brave but I'll stick with naive.
Not to say that each & every one of those lads aren't " up to it" but as a collective, they don't have old heads on young bodies IYKWIM, and today it showed. Not enough experienced guys on the pitch for me.
After a desperately disappointing 1st half, the 2nd was a huge improvement with Kanu & Elewere subbed early on.
I was impressed with the cameo from our latest recruit, and Campbell Mk 2, Chem and hope he stays well clear of any knocks as he added guile & determination to the team.
Few further positives, sad to say, but another goal from Alfie was good to see.
But I am less than impressed by Lloyd Jones, I'm afraid. Maybe it's cruel to point a finger at just one player when others were also below par, but I say what I see.
Sadly, some boos rang out at both half & full time which I'm sure were from disappointed & worried away fans but it's clear that something has to change...and soon. Mutterings around the away end that Deano may soon be on borrowed time.
We MUST find a settled team who become more familiar with one another's game through continuity as the skill sets are there on the whole. And any prospective incoming MUST arrive & be integrated toot sweet.
Fanny stating the obvious once again & trying to keep the faith but it's not getting any easier.
One way or another, I sincerely hope this was our last visit to the Kassam where we are doomed before a ball is kicked.
And the feckin M25 coupled with the evil M40 .....there are no words a lady comme moi can repeat
in parts of the game we more then held our own & had our chances
Totally gutted we couldn't hold out for the draw but sadly we done our usual & conceded a late goal