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Post-Match Thread: Stevenage vs Charlton Athletic | Saturday 16th September 2023 @ 3pm
Comments
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A fair point so I’d change that to our most natural thereTalal said:
Nitpicking a bit but Thomas is right footed and competent with his left. Can play the role but wouldn't say he's a natural there myself.NabySarr said:
We did build for 3-5-2 but I don’t think we finished our building. If we’d signed a good left sided centre back then 3-5-2 would work perfectly, but Thomas is our only natural LCB and I’m not sure whether he is the level needed.Chunes said:
I believe Curbishley played Stuart on the right side of the midfield because he was more defensively solid than a traditional wide player, and he'd naturally sit more narrow than a touchline-hugging winger, but he wasn't deployed there to mark a third opposition central midfielder.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
But why can't we play 442 with someone on the right being tucked in to a more central role instead of playing out wide eg like Graham Stuart used to do in our PL days?NabySarr said:
That’s the idea of it though, CBT is on the team sheet a wing back but doesn’t have to actually do the defensive part if you set it up right. We did this against Orient but for some reason Holden decided to scrap it. I would prefer us to set up in a 4-4-2 for now, but I can’t see Appleton doing that as I think he wants more possession and control of the game which you won’t get with a 2 man midfield.Southbank said:
I think 'a wingback who does not have to do any defending' is not a wingback.NabySarr said:
He’s played well at wing back plenty of times, as you say the problem is us not having good enough centre backs behind him. But how else are we going to fit him in the team and get a front 2 on the pitch?Southbank said:
CBT IS NOT A WINGBACK.NabySarr said:
What about CBT on the right and Edun on the left? It’s difficult to put a team together that has that front 2 but also gets our other talented players like CBT in. 4-4-2 and 3-5-2 are probably the only options and I think Appleton will want more control of the game than playing 4-4-2 offerssoapboxsam said:Leaburn is in just his 2nd season of men's football and surprise, Surprise, Miles will have games when the ball doesn't stick or he looks limited. More so if he gets isolated as a central striker in a 3.
Alway believed in tandem partnerships up front and at CB whatever the formation is in the rest of the team.
Leaburn and May can work off each other so obviously if we play a 3 with CBT on the field at the same time then Alfie and Miles will link while the X factor player Corey can be the wide man.
There surely can't be anyone that thinks if/when we play 3-5-2 that CBT is the LWB 🤦🏻♂️
With Edun available why would that happen!
16 man (17 for Cafc yesterday !) game over about 105 minutes so flexibility and fluidity is key which to those of us who started coaching with the youngest age groups where roll on and roll off subs was a requirement, were used to the chaos.
Never has a manager/Head coach and the analysts been so important as the game continues to evolve even if the skill levels don't improve in the mediocre 3rd tier.
🤞Fraser, May and Leaburn can be on the field at the same time soon.
He works in a 442 or a 433 as one of the front three.
Curbs ssid pretty much that postmatch yesterday when discussing what formation we should have going forward with the players we have.
The biggest problem MA has is that we do not seem to have even one consistently reliable centre back. A clean sheet looks impossible just now.Loads of teams now play wingers as wing backs, but they have defenders in the back 3 comfortable covering out wide. We don’t have any on the left but Ness, Abankwah, Jones will all be more comfortable covering CBT if he’s playing on the right so he won’t even have to defend. The Orient home game was CBT’s best this season (and our best game as a team) and he was playing wing back so it can work, but we were set up so that he didn’t have to do any defending
CBT is a winger. He can play on the edge of a midfield 4 or a front 3. I think a front 3 of CBT, May and Leaburn/Aneke/Tadic would be pretty devastating at this level.
Also thought Watson L has a touch of the Gallaghers about him. A mid 3 of Dobson,Watson and Fraser could be good.
But the back 4 is just a mess. And it looks like we may have finally solved the left back problem but created a right back hole at the same time.It would look something like this in practice, with Ness/Abankwah playing RCB as they are comfortable at RB so CBT won’t have to worry about doing more defending. This is how we set up against Orient (CBT on the left with Thomas behind) and we got our only clean sheet and best performance of the season, so it definitely can work and is a way to get our best players on the pitch.AMB
Ness Hector Jones
Edun
Dobson Taylor
CBT CampbellLeaburn May
So the midfield 4 would be something like Taylor/Watson, Dobson, Fraser, B-T.
That would also use B-T in a position where he doesn't have to play as a wing back, which surely it most be evident to all that this is not his strength.
Whatver we do, we clearly need 2 up front. It would be utter madness not to utilise both May and Leaburn.
If the wide player in a 442 is required to cover that central space and pick up the extra midfielder, it leaves acres of space out wide. If a team plays a 442 in that way, and faces a 4231, then the opponent now has a 2v1 out wid because the wide player is marking the CM. At the very least they can get the ball to the edge of the box with a few passes.
Simeone is the only manager in the top leagues who is using the 442 with any success, and he does it by having the striker drop back to pick up the extra midfielder and ceding possession to the opposition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lltJE4xDS_c
I agree we need two up front, it would be mad to play only one considering the options we now have. We built for 352 so why not play it?
That’s why I’d swap CBT to the right because our RCB options are better so will be able to cover him1 -
My take after time to digest is that Stevenage are not a good side to pit youngsters against. They are fit but also very physical and a good example was Tyreece Campbell who got the worse of some borderline initial challenges and lost confidence to go past the man after that. Not complaining, it is valid to make yourselves difficult to play against and maybe it is good learning for our young players but we are currently having to put too many of them on the pitch at the same time.
The goal probably wouldn't have been had the ref/his officials not seen the most blatant foul in the box possible just before. Questions have to be asked how that was missed. The Leaburn one, you could argue both ways. I think the Newcastle one yesterday was softer than that but hey ho. The handball was ridiculous really. At the time, I thought the ref might have been wondering if he didn't give the penalty he did he might be investigated by the police around some betting scam!
A big moan about Evans. He was moaning about the penalty we got not being a penalty. I thought it was but it wasn't as clear cut as the Anderson one or the handball. Didn't he realise this? I appreciate there is bias but don't be silly with it! We could have had 5 penalties yesterday and nobody could complain and it made for a strange game.5 -
The biggest problem is what ever formation you play you have to either play players out of formation or leave out players that are better than the ones you pick.NabySarr said:
Or you sit behind the ball and play more direct/counter attacking football. Which is the kind of 4-4-2 I was saying I think we’d suit at the moment. With a very good front 2 that would work with direct football, Taylor and Dobson in the middle both better at longer passing and have plenty of legs, quick and direct wingers. I think it would suit us while Fraser is out with the squad we’ve gotCafc43v3r said:
We get over run in central midfield with 3. That's why people don't play 442.NabySarr said:
You can do that yes and that is a good idea, and you will essentially end up with a 3-5-2 doing that because your full back will provide the width on that side with the wide midfielder tucking in. Camara would be probably the best suited to this role and Tennai Watson could be that attacking full back providing the width.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
But why can't we play 442 with someone on the right being tucked in to a more central role instead of playing out wide eg like Graham Stuart used to do in our PL days?NabySarr said:
That’s the idea of it though, CBT is on the team sheet a wing back but doesn’t have to actually do the defensive part if you set it up right. We did this against Orient but for some reason Holden decided to scrap it. I would prefer us to set up in a 4-4-2 for now, but I can’t see Appleton doing that as I think he wants more possession and control of the game which you won’t get with a 2 man midfield.Southbank said:
I think 'a wingback who does not have to do any defending' is not a wingback.NabySarr said:
He’s played well at wing back plenty of times, as you say the problem is us not having good enough centre backs behind him. But how else are we going to fit him in the team and get a front 2 on the pitch?Southbank said:
CBT IS NOT A WINGBACK.NabySarr said:
What about CBT on the right and Edun on the left? It’s difficult to put a team together that has that front 2 but also gets our other talented players like CBT in. 4-4-2 and 3-5-2 are probably the only options and I think Appleton will want more control of the game than playing 4-4-2 offerssoapboxsam said:Leaburn is in just his 2nd season of men's football and surprise, Surprise, Miles will have games when the ball doesn't stick or he looks limited. More so if he gets isolated as a central striker in a 3.
Alway believed in tandem partnerships up front and at CB whatever the formation is in the rest of the team.
Leaburn and May can work off each other so obviously if we play a 3 with CBT on the field at the same time then Alfie and Miles will link while the X factor player Corey can be the wide man.
There surely can't be anyone that thinks if/when we play 3-5-2 that CBT is the LWB 🤦🏻♂️
With Edun available why would that happen!
16 man (17 for Cafc yesterday !) game over about 105 minutes so flexibility and fluidity is key which to those of us who started coaching with the youngest age groups where roll on and roll off subs was a requirement, were used to the chaos.
Never has a manager/Head coach and the analysts been so important as the game continues to evolve even if the skill levels don't improve in the mediocre 3rd tier.
🤞Fraser, May and Leaburn can be on the field at the same time soon.
He works in a 442 or a 433 as one of the front three.
Curbs ssid pretty much that postmatch yesterday when discussing what formation we should have going forward with the players we have.
The biggest problem MA has is that we do not seem to have even one consistently reliable centre back. A clean sheet looks impossible just now.Loads of teams now play wingers as wing backs, but they have defenders in the back 3 comfortable covering out wide. We don’t have any on the left but Ness, Abankwah, Jones will all be more comfortable covering CBT if he’s playing on the right so he won’t even have to defend. The Orient home game was CBT’s best this season (and our best game as a team) and he was playing wing back so it can work, but we were set up so that he didn’t have to do any defending
CBT is a winger. He can play on the edge of a midfield 4 or a front 3. I think a front 3 of CBT, May and Leaburn/Aneke/Tadic would be pretty devastating at this level.
Also thought Watson L has a touch of the Gallaghers about him. A mid 3 of Dobson,Watson and Fraser could be good.
But the back 4 is just a mess. And it looks like we may have finally solved the left back problem but created a right back hole at the same time.It would look something like this in practice, with Ness/Abankwah playing RCB as they are comfortable at RB so CBT won’t have to worry about doing more defending. This is how we set up against Orient (CBT on the left with Thomas behind) and we got our only clean sheet and best performance of the season, so it definitely can work and is a way to get our best players on the pitch.AMB
Ness Hector Jones
Edun
Dobson Taylor
CBT CampbellLeaburn May
So the midfield 4 would be something like Taylor/Watson, Dobson, Fraser, B-T.
That would also use B-T in a position where he doesn't have to play as a wing back, which surely it most be evident to all that this is not his strength.
Whatver we do, we clearly need 2 up front. It would be utter madness not to utilise both May and Leaburn.
We definitely need the 2 up front, but it is quite difficult to set the team up behind that and get our good players all on the pitch. 4-4-2 is what I would like to see but I’m just not sure Appleton will want to play that way
Of you play 442 against a 433 your spare man is a center half and theirs is a center mid, if you tuck someone in to make a middle 3 you get a 2 v 1 over load on that wing. It might work if you have John Stones at center back?That’s not what Appleton/Scott wants though so that’s why I’d expect 4-3-3 or 3-5-2 for more control and probably better options long term for when Fraser and Camara return. 3-5-2 would be my preference but I’d expect Appleton might go with 4-3-32 -
Yes very true, that’s what years of poor recruitment and squad building does for youCafc43v3r said:
The biggest problem is what ever formation you play you have to either play players out of formation or leave out players that are better than the ones you pick.NabySarr said:
Or you sit behind the ball and play more direct/counter attacking football. Which is the kind of 4-4-2 I was saying I think we’d suit at the moment. With a very good front 2 that would work with direct football, Taylor and Dobson in the middle both better at longer passing and have plenty of legs, quick and direct wingers. I think it would suit us while Fraser is out with the squad we’ve gotCafc43v3r said:
We get over run in central midfield with 3. That's why people don't play 442.NabySarr said:
You can do that yes and that is a good idea, and you will essentially end up with a 3-5-2 doing that because your full back will provide the width on that side with the wide midfielder tucking in. Camara would be probably the best suited to this role and Tennai Watson could be that attacking full back providing the width.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
But why can't we play 442 with someone on the right being tucked in to a more central role instead of playing out wide eg like Graham Stuart used to do in our PL days?NabySarr said:
That’s the idea of it though, CBT is on the team sheet a wing back but doesn’t have to actually do the defensive part if you set it up right. We did this against Orient but for some reason Holden decided to scrap it. I would prefer us to set up in a 4-4-2 for now, but I can’t see Appleton doing that as I think he wants more possession and control of the game which you won’t get with a 2 man midfield.Southbank said:
I think 'a wingback who does not have to do any defending' is not a wingback.NabySarr said:
He’s played well at wing back plenty of times, as you say the problem is us not having good enough centre backs behind him. But how else are we going to fit him in the team and get a front 2 on the pitch?Southbank said:
CBT IS NOT A WINGBACK.NabySarr said:
What about CBT on the right and Edun on the left? It’s difficult to put a team together that has that front 2 but also gets our other talented players like CBT in. 4-4-2 and 3-5-2 are probably the only options and I think Appleton will want more control of the game than playing 4-4-2 offerssoapboxsam said:Leaburn is in just his 2nd season of men's football and surprise, Surprise, Miles will have games when the ball doesn't stick or he looks limited. More so if he gets isolated as a central striker in a 3.
Alway believed in tandem partnerships up front and at CB whatever the formation is in the rest of the team.
Leaburn and May can work off each other so obviously if we play a 3 with CBT on the field at the same time then Alfie and Miles will link while the X factor player Corey can be the wide man.
There surely can't be anyone that thinks if/when we play 3-5-2 that CBT is the LWB 🤦🏻♂️
With Edun available why would that happen!
16 man (17 for Cafc yesterday !) game over about 105 minutes so flexibility and fluidity is key which to those of us who started coaching with the youngest age groups where roll on and roll off subs was a requirement, were used to the chaos.
Never has a manager/Head coach and the analysts been so important as the game continues to evolve even if the skill levels don't improve in the mediocre 3rd tier.
🤞Fraser, May and Leaburn can be on the field at the same time soon.
He works in a 442 or a 433 as one of the front three.
Curbs ssid pretty much that postmatch yesterday when discussing what formation we should have going forward with the players we have.
The biggest problem MA has is that we do not seem to have even one consistently reliable centre back. A clean sheet looks impossible just now.Loads of teams now play wingers as wing backs, but they have defenders in the back 3 comfortable covering out wide. We don’t have any on the left but Ness, Abankwah, Jones will all be more comfortable covering CBT if he’s playing on the right so he won’t even have to defend. The Orient home game was CBT’s best this season (and our best game as a team) and he was playing wing back so it can work, but we were set up so that he didn’t have to do any defending
CBT is a winger. He can play on the edge of a midfield 4 or a front 3. I think a front 3 of CBT, May and Leaburn/Aneke/Tadic would be pretty devastating at this level.
Also thought Watson L has a touch of the Gallaghers about him. A mid 3 of Dobson,Watson and Fraser could be good.
But the back 4 is just a mess. And it looks like we may have finally solved the left back problem but created a right back hole at the same time.It would look something like this in practice, with Ness/Abankwah playing RCB as they are comfortable at RB so CBT won’t have to worry about doing more defending. This is how we set up against Orient (CBT on the left with Thomas behind) and we got our only clean sheet and best performance of the season, so it definitely can work and is a way to get our best players on the pitch.AMB
Ness Hector Jones
Edun
Dobson Taylor
CBT CampbellLeaburn May
So the midfield 4 would be something like Taylor/Watson, Dobson, Fraser, B-T.
That would also use B-T in a position where he doesn't have to play as a wing back, which surely it most be evident to all that this is not his strength.
Whatver we do, we clearly need 2 up front. It would be utter madness not to utilise both May and Leaburn.
We definitely need the 2 up front, but it is quite difficult to set the team up behind that and get our good players all on the pitch. 4-4-2 is what I would like to see but I’m just not sure Appleton will want to play that way
Of you play 442 against a 433 your spare man is a center half and theirs is a center mid, if you tuck someone in to make a middle 3 you get a 2 v 1 over load on that wing. It might work if you have John Stones at center back?That’s not what Appleton/Scott wants though so that’s why I’d expect 4-3-3 or 3-5-2 for more control and probably better options long term for when Fraser and Camara return. 3-5-2 would be my preference but I’d expect Appleton might go with 4-3-31 -
decent result and performance against an in form outfit .. good start for Apples and the new boys .. I'll wager that come season's end, we will be above Stevenage on the final table7
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On CTV both Curbs and Brownie were complaining our player don’t appeal enough, and I agree.Fortune 82nd Minute said:Old Evans is one deluded prize ****!
Quote from him in todays paper. "It was a little bit galling to see every time there's a free kick and it's contested there's seven Charlton players running around the referee. I think they get the penalty from that because there's not a chance in the world that's a penalty"
There maybe an element of truth in the second bit but there was only one team demanding free kicks for most of the game and it sure as heck wasn't us!3 -
You are going to get desperate appeals when the ref has missed a few clear penalties before. It comes from frustration and desperation and sadly it was justified yesterday. Evans admitted that we should have had a penalty in the first half but said it was evened out by them not getting one which I agree was a foul but it was clearly outside the area. What about the other penalty shouts we had Evans? As far as I am concrened, you are doing a good job at Stevenage but you can F off you biased see you next Tuesday.2
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CBT is a conundrum. Can Appleton coach him into being an efficient wingback is the question?
You’re not going to turn him into a thundering tackler, but can you get him to simply be disruptive and break up play, focus on getting back, get in the passing lane, and simply make sure any wide play is always forced outside.I agree with another comment on here, he was too high in this game. He needs to get the ball nearer halfway to make his pace really effective.1 -
We are definitely not currently in a relegation battle, as has been suggested.Clearly it’s a possibility given the poor start however far to early to be characterising our current situation in such a manner.1
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Stevenage are an efficient side at what they do but sod watching a steve evans side week in week out. They'd get mullered most weeks if they ever somehow got to the championship.2
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Video up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOuwnOHDSVU
didn't get the usual chats with fans but thought it was worth the upload anyway
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And most of their players are on league 2 money, of course they would.Redvalleyeast said:Stevenage are an efficient side at what they do but sod watching a steve evans side week in week out. They'd get mullered most weeks if they ever somehow got to the championship.
I bet their best paid player is on half what ours is on, if not less.
I personally would love 18 months of "efficient" if it meant getting out of this hell hole of a division.5 -
Real game of two halves…1st half stats:
Possession: 44-56
Passing Accuracy: 58-65
Expected Goals: 0.27-0.07
Total Shots: 6-2
On Target: 3-0
Inside Area: 4-2
Corners: 5-0
2nd half stats:
Possession: 42-58
Passing Accuracy: 58-74
Expected Goals: 0.44-1.35
Total Shots: 3-10
On Target: 0-1
Inside Area: 3-7
Corners 0-46 -
I see it's Thomas' turn for 'players who get better when they're not playing'.
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Happy with a point in the end because for a large part of that game we were poor and did not look like creating anything until chucks come on. If he can stay fit, then what a player to bring off the bench. He caused so much panic I thought we might nick it after the penalty.
I thought several players had a poor game and it literally was men v boys for a large part as Stevenage’s experienced pros bullied our young prospects. I think this could happen a lot more this year until we can get some more experience around the youngsters.
Thought both Taylor and Watson looked good when they come on which gives us some more options as Anderson could do with coming out for a few games, I think.
4 points over the last 2 games so positive and with players till to come back but think we are still some way off where we need to be.
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Rumbled
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Ignore what Evans says, he's playing the victim as it's a crucial part of what's made so many of his teams successful. Building a siege mentality that other clubs are getting all the decisions, that big clubs get the decisions etc
All designed to keep his players motivated and a bit angry.11 -
That is how I've read it.killerandflash said:Ignore what Evans says, he's playing the victim as it's a crucial part of what's made so many of his teams successful. Building a siege mentality that other clubs are getting all the decisions, that big clubs get the decisions etc
All designed to keep his players motivated and a bit angry.
I also genuinely think he's had a look at our managerial merry go round and has chucked us a couple of compliments on the chance we sack another manager and he's in the good books. Sneaky bloke Evans4 -
I should imagine The Valley Cafe'll be all over that.Braziliance said:
That is how I've read it.killerandflash said:Ignore what Evans says, he's playing the victim as it's a crucial part of what's made so many of his teams successful. Building a siege mentality that other clubs are getting all the decisions, that big clubs get the decisions etc
All designed to keep his players motivated and a bit angry.
I also genuinely think he's had a look at our managerial merry go round and has chucked us a couple of compliments on the chance we sack another manager and he's in the good books. Sneaky bloke Evans
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Evans is scum, never should have been allowed back into the sport after what he did at Boston7
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Actually that was mean what I posted, edited.soapy_jones said:
I should imagine The Valley Cafe'll be all over that.Braziliance said:
That is how I've read it.killerandflash said:Ignore what Evans says, he's playing the victim as it's a crucial part of what's made so many of his teams successful. Building a siege mentality that other clubs are getting all the decisions, that big clubs get the decisions etc
All designed to keep his players motivated and a bit angry.
I also genuinely think he's had a look at our managerial merry go round and has chucked us a couple of compliments on the chance we sack another manager and he's in the good books. Sneaky bloke Evans
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Really think we needed Fraser on Saturday. Felt like we needed someone to try and keep the ball in their half in first half. Don’t think the 3 of Campbell x2 & CBT was the correct line up against the profile of team of Stevenage. Plenty of positives for me in the second half though.0
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What did he do at Boston ?Rothko said:Evans is scum, never should have been allowed back into the sport after what he did at Boston0 -
https://twohundredpercent.net/steve-evans-football-manager-convicted-criminal/charltonbob said:
What did he do at Boston ?Rothko said:Evans is scum, never should have been allowed back into the sport after what he did at Boston
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And Evans is mates with Rodwell???
Is that the 'football professional' Rodwell now with us?0 -
maybe 30 to 40% of the time it manages to be league 2 standard the rest it struggles to rival Welling's in national southblackpool72 said:My take on today's game.
1st half we were shocking. Having said that we should have had a penalty.
2nd half at least we showed some fight and eventually got a penalty to earn a well deserved draw.
We are still faced with the same old problem that we need to score a minimum of 2 goals in order to win a game.
Our defence at times looks league 2 standard and this will be Appleton's biggest challenge in improving us as a team.
Finally I try never to criticise Ref's as I think things even themselves out over time.
But this prick today is just about as bat a ref as I've seen.
Anyway onwards and upwards.
ambling back, ball watching, mis-reading the flight of the ball, flat refusing the "if in doubt, leather it out" safety first policy that should be compulsory when your ball control and passing are both so pony, they're all just so meek - the linos get an easy ride - they all just shrug and dawdle on after each goal conceding blunder
Clattering the ball into row Z might be ugly and mess up the possession stats (FFS!) but the opposition ain't scoring from throw-ins, well not immediately anyway, you all get a restart and a few seconds to remember what the actual funk you're supposed to be doing0
