Appleton is showing why he is just like Holden, Garner, Adkins.....etc etc.
No idea how to set us up & then moans at the players when they dont deliver his stupid tactics.
I wasn't there or watch a stream but by the sounds of it we didnt play that well. A defeat could have put us 17th & only because of teams carrying points deductions could have been even lower.
I dont see drawing 0-0 away from home as an achievement as some people do. Yes we didnt lose but that's 2 draws out of 3 and this season is slowly becoming just like last year. No hope of getting close to the top 6 & game after game goes by where we play insipid uninspiring football that leads nowhere.
Another wasted season.
The real issue is that it’s glaringly obvious Leaburn needs to play as does May…
however, it’s how you fit May, leaburn, dobson, CBT & Watson/Fraser/camara into a team elbowing you want them there as they’re the top players - it just doesn’t work!
Leaburn May
CBT Dobson Fraser/ Camara Campbell
Edun/Thomas Jones Hector Asimwe
4-4-fucking 2.
Use you BEST players in THEIR best positions. Fit the system to the players & not the other way round.
Might actually win a game that way.
You ARE aware that Appleton has in fact already won games with this squad, yes? Twice now in 4 attempts in fact.
But I'm sure you'd have us unbeaten all season being such a football genius...
If you want to avoid football scores until 10.30pm I graciously would say that you avoid a football forum.
I have to hold my tongue/fingers during the game as I've been "told off" before about posting Premier League scores as they happen but I dont see why the minority have to hold sway over the majority.
I think it's time those who don't want to know the scores before MOTD should "look away now" (as they say on the news).
As an international fan , the first thing I do when I wake up is check in here. I then scratch my balls, have a wee and then watch premiership highlights. So assuming other international fans are the same (excluding scratching my nads), it would be awesome if the thread each week could be about this game only.
Like Appleton I think you need to switch things around a bit and go back to basics. So try having a wee before scratching your balls when you wake up. You'll enjoy the latter far more, trust me.
Appleton is showing why he is just like Holden, Garner, Adkins.....etc etc.
No idea how to set us up & then moans at the players when they dont deliver his stupid tactics.
I wasn't there or watch a stream but by the sounds of it we didnt play that well. A defeat could have put us 17th & only because of teams carrying points deductions could have been even lower.
I dont see drawing 0-0 away from home as an achievement as some people do. Yes we didnt lose but that's 2 draws out of 3 and this season is slowly becoming just like last year. No hope of getting close to the top 6 & game after game goes by where we play insipid uninspiring football that leads nowhere.
Another wasted season.
The real issue is that it’s glaringly obvious Leaburn needs to play as does May…
however, it’s how you fit May, leaburn, dobson, CBT & Watson/Fraser/camara into a team elbowing you want them there as they’re the top players - it just doesn’t work!
Leaburn May
CBT Dobson Fraser/ Camara Campbell
Edun/Thomas Jones Hector Asimwe
4-4-fucking 2.
Use you BEST players in THEIR best positions. Fit the system to the players & not the other way round.
I would be suprised if they narrowed the pitch for us. They probably did it to suit how they want to play through the season. More of a general way of masking deficiencies. Of course they are allowed to do it but there was half the space, at least, in terms of the width of the pitch between the corner flag and the box. To be honest, I am not sure it helps them too much in the long term. They find it hard to score goals at home and when they go away from home they have to adapt to normal dimenshioned pitches.
It did penalise CBT though because the way he plays, he doesn't skill past a man but kicks it past them and outsprints them. There was absolutely no room for him to do this yesterday so it probably did help them against us. But I don't think it will help them over the course of the season. I wouldn't expect too many goals for them and opponents at home over the whole duration of the season. The thinking is probably, we haven't got any dangerous wide players and some of our opponents have so we take that element out of the game.
I think Appleton has a good point in his post match comments. But he also made the point a few interviews ago that if a dog doesn't bite as a pup, he won't bite as a dog. The suggestion is, from his own lips, that you can't do too much about it.
There is definitely a lack of a bastard in this team. A nasty league one specialist who can drag back the initiative when games start to slip away. That happened yesterday. They bullied us a bit first half and there was no one to land a counter blow and give us back momentum
Was at the game in the home end, walked out to see our lads warming up straight in front of us. All were deathly quiet - I think we lack personality.
First half we didnt get into the game whatsoever. The front 4 were too far away from the back 6 and as a result we didn't get forward at all - not sure we even had a shot?
Second half much better and could've won it - the subs made a big difference again. They did well to keep CBT out of the game, but I thought TC and may offered absolutely nothing all day.
Depressingly I think a draw was a fair result - they had several big changes - free header from the ginger lad, one on one at the end, strike from half way, and a 3 on 2 the player was greedy and blasted over.
One of those games we should win before kick off but at half time I would take a point - get back on the coach and move on.
Across the Premier League, Championship and League One yesterday, four teams (6.66%) played in 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 formations.
- Everton (4-4-1-1) lost 1-2 at home to Luton. They’ve lost 5 out of 7 games so far this season.
- Cheltenham (4-4-2) lost 2-0 at Lincoln. They haven’t scored all season and are rock bottom of the league.
- Reading (4-4-2) and Burton (4-4-2) played out a nil nil draw against each other. Burton are 20th in the league, Reading are 21st.
There’s a reason teams at our level don’t play it anymore… it doesn’t win games of football.
Ok so we’ll do the same despite being utter garbage at 4 3 3 for the last 3 seasons let’s not try to change it up just stick with what others do.
The question is more why are we utter garbage despite having a totally different set of players. Most of whom will never had played 442 in their professional careers.
One of the reasons we have been out played, especially in the first half of the last two away games is because we haven't had any control in the midfield. In the Wycombe game the game turned against us when we lost the control we had. The solution isn't to take a player out of that area to give us more control is it?
I can also see the argument that Campbell, neither of them, is actually a central midfielder so you wouldn't lose anything by swapping them and Leaburn round and basically playing a 424. With round pegs in round holes. That might well be a better way of using the players selected/available but it's probably not the long term answer either.
Long term we need 3, at least, proper central midfielders away from home and against the better teams at home else we won't have control of anything. Fraser, Taylor and Camara being fit will make a massive difference.
The big question is how do you get your 3 best attacking players, May, Leaburn and CBT in the same side AND 3 central mids. Or do you come to the conclusion you don't actually try and sacrifice one for a better balanced team, in the long run?
Appleton is showing why he is just like Holden, Garner, Adkins.....etc etc.
No idea how to set us up & then moans at the players when they dont deliver his stupid tactics.
I wasn't there or watch a stream but by the sounds of it we didnt play that well. A defeat could have put us 17th & only because of teams carrying points deductions could have been even lower.
I dont see drawing 0-0 away from home as an achievement as some people do. Yes we didnt lose but that's 2 draws out of 3 and this season is slowly becoming just like last year. No hope of getting close to the top 6 & game after game goes by where we play insipid uninspiring football that leads nowhere.
Another wasted season.
The real issue is that it’s glaringly obvious Leaburn needs to play as does May…
however, it’s how you fit May, leaburn, dobson, CBT & Watson/Fraser/camara into a team elbowing you want them there as they’re the top players - it just doesn’t work!
Leaburn May
CBT Dobson Fraser/ Camara Campbell
Edun/Thomas Jones Hector Asimwe
4-4-fucking 2.
Use you BEST players in THEIR best positions. Fit the system to the players & not the other way round.
Might actually win a game that way.
But that's not what you're actually doing there. Maybe in some limited 'right side man go on right side' way, but you've got two very attacking wingers, one who is notorious for not really supporting his full back and one fairly attacking central midfielder in Fraser. I could see us going with a 442 where Tennai is allowed licence to get forward from right back and we play a centre mid narrow on the right, maybe Camara when he's fit, but that lineup you've out would get absolutely roasted by decent teams who could exploit the many, many gaps that would appear
First 5 games = 3 points Following 4 games = 8 points Hoped for more from yesterday but happy to continue the progress in points since that dreadful start of the season!
Isted
Hector Jones Thomas
Watson Dobbo Edun Camara Fraser Leaburn May
It’s the only way I’ve found to get two up top, as many of our best players on the pitch (if and when fully fit) at the same time and a clear possibility of dominating the engine room.
Looks like we’ve made a definite move away from from a back 3 under MA though.
Across the Premier League, Championship and League One yesterday, four teams (6.66%) played in 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 formations.
- Everton (4-4-1-1) lost 1-2 at home to Luton. They’ve lost 5 out of 7 games so far this season.
- Cheltenham (4-4-2) lost 2-0 at Lincoln. They haven’t scored all season and are rock bottom of the league.
- Reading (4-4-2) and Burton (4-4-2) played out a nil nil draw against each other. Burton are 20th in the league, Reading are 21st.
There’s a reason teams at our level don’t play it anymore… it doesn’t win games of football.
Why doesn't 4-4-2 win games these days?
Because two full backs, two centre backs and two wingers leaves just four in the middle of the park. Most clubs play a 4-4-2 diamond, 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 which yields five in central areas.
And requires a decent number 10.
Appleton has sorted our defence to an eextentand we should look good once Edun back. But he is still searching for the best candidate for a 10. Yesterday we learnt that isn't T. Campbell who has proved himself as a winger.
May looked OK in that role once Aneke took over at 9. Perhaps it's him, Fraser or Chem Campbell. Let's see how things look on Tuesday.
The Managers post match comments are interesting. Twice in his three games he has accused the team of a lack of commitment in a first half that left a lot to be desired. Does this suggest a fundamental attitude problem within the squad ?Something quite a few people on here have highlighted since our relegation under Lee Bowyer.
That's exactly what I think. Over the last couple of seasons it's been apparent that some of our players just can't be bothered.
If you want to avoid football scores until 10.30pm I graciously would say that you avoid a football forum.
I have to hold my tongue/fingers during the game as I've been "told off" before about posting Premier League scores as they happen but I dont see why the minority have to hold sway over the majority.
I think it's time those who don't want to know the scores before MOTD should "look away now" (as they say on the news).
As an international fan , the first thing I do when I wake up is check in here. I then scratch my balls, have a wee and then watch premiership highlights. So assuming other international fans are the same (excluding scratching my nads), it would be awesome if the thread each week could be about this game only.
As a UK based fan I follow matches when they are played in the UK. I don't think I should have to curtail what I do because of someone living half way around the world.
Jeez. What next, not being able to post the Ryder Cup scores because a US citizen is still asleep.
How about trying to forget about it and move on to moaning about something else.
You an argue until you are blue in the face about the best formation we should play but one thing is absolutely and utterly clear - playing with one up front just doesn't work for us.
It was a disaster in the first half yesterday with May totally isolated and unable to get into the game.
I'll leave it to you experts to work out how we do it but surely May and Leaburn have got to play as a pair up front somehow.
Was at the game. Absolutely shocking first half. No fight, passion, effort or quality from the midfield upwards apart from Dobbo as normal. Leaburn is not a winger, Campbell was awful and CBT was not interested. I noted one move when Dobbo (I think) could have played the ball through a big gap between defenders to a charging CBT, only to find that CBT didn't charge! There was no cohesion and a lot of confusion!
Second half was much better and the subs made a big difference. We took the game to them and we looked much more like a football team. Chucks was immense when he came on and should have scored with a header. Louie Watson steadied the ship when he replaced Taylor but he didn't look like a player who can influence the game enough. It was good to see Fraser back and he showed what we have been missing.
Man of the match though was Isted who made some terrific saves... even though the long range effort form the Shrewsbury guy came from his poor kick in the first place.
Appleton needs to find his best team / formation so that we can start playing from the off. Waiting until the second half for the team to wake up is a very dangerous game.
Across the Premier League, Championship and League One yesterday, four teams (6.66%) played in 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 formations.
- Everton (4-4-1-1) lost 1-2 at home to Luton. They’ve lost 5 out of 7 games so far this season.
- Cheltenham (4-4-2) lost 2-0 at Lincoln. They haven’t scored all season and are rock bottom of the league.
- Reading (4-4-2) and Burton (4-4-2) played out a nil nil draw against each other. Burton are 20th in the league, Reading are 21st.
There’s a reason teams at our level don’t play it anymore… it doesn’t win games of football.
Our best run of the season last year came playing 4-4-2. Also Norwich have been playing it most of the season and doing well, Villa have been playing it too and doing well, and beat Brighton who played it yesterday too.
It would probably mean sacrificing control of the game and playing more direct, which I think would suit us. But that’s not appletons style so it won’t happen.
We need to play 3-4-1-2, that’s what this squad was built for. It is really strange that we recruited a manager to play a different system to Holden. Appleton needs to be pragmatic and get the best out of the squad he has, not trying to fit the squad into how he plays
Isted Jones Hector Thomas Watson Watson Dobson CBT C.Campbell (Fraser when fit) Leaburn May
We showed on the opening day that if CBT has Thomas behind him we can almost convert to a back 4 and mean that he won’t have to defend much. That is still our best performance of the season but it seems Holden and now Appleton don’t realise this
Alfie May scored 20+ goals in a front 2 the past 2 seasons. We have Leaburn to start games and Aneke to bring on, 2 of the best strike partners he could possibly find at this level.
And Appleton is playing 4-2-3-1…
May must be fuming, started the season playing on his own up front as we had no one else. Finally got to play with Kanu as a partner but that wasn’t the ideal partner. He then sees Leaburn and Aneke return to fitness, Tedic joining on deadline day and thinks finally this is what I needed. Ends up still playing up front on his own, and when chasing a goal ends up playing on the left wing!
We have FIVE centre forwards/forwards capable of playing in a two up front and two wingers who could play in a 4-3-3
Yet we insist on playing 4-3-3 or just one up front.
Alfie May Leaburn Chuks
Are arguably with Dobbo, our best 3 players.
Has to be 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 and CBT plays wide as wing back or wide left.
We shouldn't play a formation that is in vogue if we don't have the players to play it. We are 15th in Division 3. We just struggled to a point away at Shrewsbury.
Across the Premier League, Championship and League One yesterday, four teams (6.66%) played in 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 formations.
- Everton (4-4-1-1) lost 1-2 at home to Luton. They’ve lost 5 out of 7 games so far this season.
- Cheltenham (4-4-2) lost 2-0 at Lincoln. They haven’t scored all season and are rock bottom of the league.
- Reading (4-4-2) and Burton (4-4-2) played out a nil nil draw against each other. Burton are 20th in the league, Reading are 21st.
There’s a reason teams at our level don’t play it anymore… it doesn’t win games of football.
Why doesn't 4-4-2 win games these days?
Because two full backs, two centre backs and two wingers leaves just four in the middle of the park. Most clubs play a 4-4-2 diamond, 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 which yields five in central areas.
And requires a decent number 10.
Appleton has sorted our defence to an eextentand we should look good once Edun back. But he is still searching for the best candidate for a 10. Yesterday we learnt that isn't T. Campbell who has proved himself as a winger.
May looked OK in that role once Aneke took over at 9. Perhaps it's him, Fraser or Chem Campbell. Let's see how things look on Tuesday.
Please please please don't play May as a winger or a "wide man". He is a striker. A nippy one at that. 2 of his goals have come from balls played down the channel for him to run onto. Don't give him the ball out wide & expect him to run with it.
You an argue until you are blue in the face about the best formation we should play but one thing is absolutely and utterly clear - playing with one up front just doesn't work for us.
It was a disaster in the first half yesterday with May totally isolated and unable to get into the game.
I'll leave it to you experts to work out how we do it but surely May and Leaburn have got to play as a pair up front somehow.
I thought Campbell was so inneffectual yesterday in that position, Leaburn might have been better playing there. Aneke definitely added something when he came on.
Think we all agree that we'd be much stronger with two up front. I was excited about that May - Leaburn partnership and we've got good options off the bench. But it seems that Apples is a 433 merchant. I've got nothing against the formation itself, but we built for a 352 and have brought in a manager that doesn't play it. The lone striker just doesn't suit May that well, and it seems like we're trying to accommodate CBT in a wing position, and he can have his off days. Leaburn is also going to run hot and cold out wide.
I wish we would drop the 442 argument, but I guess it's nostalgic for some and harks back to a simpler era of football. In all likelihood it's not going to be deployed.
More likely a 352 and don't see why we're not playing it. Shows a lack of joined-up thinking from the SMT again. They've built a squad around one formation then brought in a manager who plays another.
Watched the first half in patches while the golf was on and gave up completely at half time. Expected more from us. Boy this league is a hard watch.
Sadly its us that's hard to watch.
Second half was ok, after the awful first half, @Sillybilly.
Surprised that those posting above haven’t recognised Louie Watson as someone who could boost our midfield. Fraser is good on his day, but goes missing quite often, and imho is easily bullied off the ball. Camara may well be very good, but don’t hold your breath if you think he’ll be a regular starter, with his injury record. Terry Thomas is rated, but haven’t seen much from him so far.
It’s Louie for me, although admittedly only based on the limited minutes he’s had so far.
And not sure Tyreece is ready for a starting role just yet.
Across the Premier League, Championship and League One yesterday, four teams (6.66%) played in 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 formations.
- Everton (4-4-1-1) lost 1-2 at home to Luton. They’ve lost 5 out of 7 games so far this season.
- Cheltenham (4-4-2) lost 2-0 at Lincoln. They haven’t scored all season and are rock bottom of the league.
- Reading (4-4-2) and Burton (4-4-2) played out a nil nil draw against each other. Burton are 20th in the league, Reading are 21st.
There’s a reason teams at our level don’t play it anymore… it doesn’t win games of football.
Our best run of the season last year came playing 4-4-2. Also Norwich have been playing it most of the season and doing well, Villa have been playing it too and doing well, and beat Brighton who played it yesterday too.
It would probably mean sacrificing control of the game and playing more direct, which I think would suit us. But that’s not appletons style so it won’t happen.
We need to play 3-4-1-2, that’s what this squad was built for. It is really strange that we recruited a manager to play a different system to Holden. Appleton needs to be pragmatic and get the best out of the squad he has, not trying to fit the squad into how he plays
Isted Jones Hector Thomas Watson Watson Dobson CBT C.Campbell (Fraser when fit) Leaburn May
We showed on the opening day that if CBT has Thomas behind him we can almost convert to a back 4 and mean that he won’t have to defend much. That is still our best performance of the season but it seems Holden and now Appleton don’t realise this
I might be wrong because I only went off a scan of formations in my scores app but I have both Aston Villa and Brighton playing 4-2-3-1 yesterday. Moussa Diaby and Danny Welbeck setting up as central attacking midfielders. Norwich similarly in past weeks with Ashley Barnes playing off of Adam Idah.
I think there is a wider conversation to be had about the fluidity of formations and how ultimately they don’t really matter a great deal in the attacking phase as ideally when you’re attacking, 4-3-3 easily becomes a 4-2-3-1 which becomes a 4-4-1-1 which becomes a 4-4-2 which becomes a 4-3-3 etc etc. but I’ve tried approaching that topic before and got shut down so here we are.
Comments
But I'm sure you'd have us unbeaten all season being such a football genius...
- Everton (4-4-1-1) lost 1-2 at home to Luton. They’ve lost 5 out of 7 games so far this season.
- Cheltenham (4-4-2) lost 2-0 at Lincoln. They haven’t scored all season and are rock bottom of the league.
- Reading (4-4-2) and Burton (4-4-2) played out a nil nil draw against each other. Burton are 20th in the league, Reading are 21st.
There’s a reason teams at our level don’t play it anymore… it doesn’t win games of football.
It did penalise CBT though because the way he plays, he doesn't skill past a man but kicks it past them and outsprints them. There was absolutely no room for him to do this yesterday so it probably did help them against us. But I don't think it will help them over the course of the season. I wouldn't expect too many goals for them and opponents at home over the whole duration of the season. The thinking is probably, we haven't got any dangerous wide players and some of our opponents have so we take that element out of the game.
First half we didnt get into the game whatsoever. The front 4 were too far away from the back 6 and as a result we didn't get forward at all - not sure we even had a shot?
Second half much better and could've won it - the subs made a big difference again. They did well to keep CBT out of the game, but I thought TC and may offered absolutely nothing all day.
Depressingly I think a draw was a fair result - they had several big changes - free header from the ginger lad, one on one at the end, strike from half way, and a 3 on 2 the player was greedy and blasted over.
One of those games we should win before kick off but at half time I would take a point - get back on the coach and move on.
One of the reasons we have been out played, especially in the first half of the last two away games is because we haven't had any control in the midfield. In the Wycombe game the game turned against us when we lost the control we had. The solution isn't to take a player out of that area to give us more control is it?
I can also see the argument that Campbell, neither of them, is actually a central midfielder so you wouldn't lose anything by swapping them and Leaburn round and basically playing a 424. With round pegs in round holes. That might well be a better way of using the players selected/available but it's probably not the long term answer either.
Long term we need 3, at least, proper central midfielders away from home and against the better teams at home else we won't have control of anything. Fraser, Taylor and Camara being fit will make a massive difference.
The big question is how do you get your 3 best attacking players, May, Leaburn and CBT in the same side AND 3 central mids. Or do you come to the conclusion you don't actually try and sacrifice one for a better balanced team, in the long run?
Following 4 games = 8 points
Hoped for more from yesterday but happy to continue the progress in points since that dreadful start of the season!
Camara Fraser
Leaburn May
Because two full backs, two centre backs and two wingers leaves just four in the middle of the park. Most clubs play a 4-4-2 diamond, 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 which yields five in central areas.
And requires a decent number 10.
Appleton has sorted our defence to an eextentand we should look good once Edun back. But he is still searching for the best candidate for a 10. Yesterday we learnt that isn't T. Campbell who has proved himself as a winger.
May looked OK in that role once Aneke took over at 9. Perhaps it's him, Fraser or Chem Campbell. Let's see how things look on Tuesday.
It was a disaster in the first half yesterday with May totally isolated and unable to get into the game.
I'll leave it to you experts to work out how we do it but surely May and Leaburn have got to play as a pair up front somehow.
Second half was much better and the subs made a big difference. We took the game to them and we looked much more like a football team. Chucks was immense when he came on and should have scored with a header. Louie Watson steadied the ship when he replaced Taylor but he didn't look like a player who can influence the game enough. It was good to see Fraser back and he showed what we have been missing.
Man of the match though was Isted who made some terrific saves... even though the long range effort form the Shrewsbury guy came from his poor kick in the first place.
Appleton needs to find his best team / formation so that we can start playing from the off. Waiting until the second half for the team to wake up is a very dangerous game.
Isted
Jones Hector Thomas
Watson Watson Dobson CBT
C.Campbell (Fraser when fit)
Leaburn May
We showed on the opening day that if CBT has Thomas behind him we can almost convert to a back 4 and mean that he won’t have to defend much. That is still our best performance of the season but it seems Holden and now Appleton don’t realise this
May must be fuming, started the season playing on his own up front as we had no one else. Finally got to play with Kanu as a partner but that wasn’t the ideal partner. He then sees Leaburn and Aneke return to fitness, Tedic joining on deadline day and thinks finally this is what I needed. Ends up still playing up front on his own, and when chasing a goal ends up playing on the left wing!
Yet we insist on playing 4-3-3 or just one up front.
Alfie May
Leaburn
Chuks
Are arguably with Dobbo, our best 3 players.
Has to be 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 and CBT plays wide as wing back or wide left.
We shouldn't play a formation that is in vogue if we don't have the players to play it. We are 15th in Division 3. We just struggled to a point away at Shrewsbury.
Sheesh.
I wish we would drop the 442 argument, but I guess it's nostalgic for some and harks back to a simpler era of football. In all likelihood it's not going to be deployed.
More likely a 352 and don't see why we're not playing it. Shows a lack of joined-up thinking from the SMT again. They've built a squad around one formation then brought in a manager who plays another.
I think there is a wider conversation to be had about the fluidity of formations and how ultimately they don’t really matter a great deal in the attacking phase as ideally when you’re attacking, 4-3-3 easily becomes a 4-2-3-1 which becomes a 4-4-1-1 which becomes a 4-4-2 which becomes a 4-3-3 etc etc. but I’ve tried approaching that topic before and got shut down so here we are.