You include players like Fiorini and Bakinson and Ladapo as if they are actually any good. Maybe they are but we haven't seen it yet and may not at all. You say you think we will be fine, I think you need to look at the table and realise we are deep in shit otherwise you might get a rude awakening. Optimism is ok but at some point realism needs to kick in.
I know all that matters is what they do in a Charlton shirt. But the names on paper are easily good enough for top six at this level. Those three names have 127 Championship appearances between them. They shouldn’t be part of a team that gets relegated from League One.
That’s why I’m saying it’s worth a study. Because these players aren’t this bad. Until they turn up at Charlton.
6 league 1 matches on Tuesday night including Port Vale v Orient & Stevenage v Reading. Hate that I have to sweat the L1 relegation results. Spent last 10 minutes following Reading game today on skybet hoping Oxford would score.
IF it did happen, there should be studies done on our season because getting relegated from League One with: - Alfie May, - Freddie Ladapo, - Tyreeq Bakinson, - Conor Coventry, - George Dobson, - Corey Blackett-Taylor, - Scott Fraser, - Miles Leaburn, - Chuks Aneke, - Panutche Camara, - Lewis Fiorini, - Michael Hector, - Rarmani Edmonds-Green, - Macauley Gillesphey, - Lloyd Jones in your squad at various points of a 46 game season is genuinely unfathomable.
West ham got relegated from the PL with a team that had:
David James Bowyer Carrick Defoe Di Canio Freddie Kanoute Glen Johnson Joe Cole
IF it did happen, there should be studies done on our season because getting relegated from League One with: - Alfie May, - Freddie Ladapo, - Tyreeq Bakinson, - Conor Coventry, - George Dobson, - Corey Blackett-Taylor, - Scott Fraser, - Miles Leaburn, - Chuks Aneke, - Panutche Camara, - Lewis Fiorini, - Michael Hector, - Rarmani Edmonds-Green, - Macauley Gillesphey, - Lloyd Jones in your squad at various points of a 46 game season is genuinely unfathomable.
West ham got relegated from the PL with a team that had:
David James Bowyer Carrick Defoe Di Canio Freddie Kanoute Glen Johnson Joe Cole
And articles are still being written about it twenty years later because of how bizarre it all was, which was kind of the point I was making.
IF it did happen, there should be studies done on our season because getting relegated from League One with: - Alfie May, - Freddie Ladapo, - Tyreeq Bakinson, - Conor Coventry, - George Dobson, - Corey Blackett-Taylor, - Scott Fraser, - Miles Leaburn, - Chuks Aneke, - Panutche Camara, - Lewis Fiorini, - Michael Hector, - Rarmani Edmonds-Green, - Macauley Gillesphey, - Lloyd Jones in your squad at various points of a 46 game season is genuinely unfathomable.
It's not unfathomable and it isn't worth a study, you are severely overrating our squad.
There are a few players in that list that wouldn't look out place in a top6 side, that's about it.
I can do the study for you, one manager who had no business being appointed Charlton manager, was given the job, and then the same thing happened again, and then that manager was given about 28 games too many.
The teams around us have more quality than I think you realise, there are players in teams below us, and just above us, that stroll into our team.
IF it did happen, there should be studies done on our season because getting relegated from League One with: - Alfie May, - Freddie Ladapo, - Tyreeq Bakinson, - Conor Coventry, - George Dobson, - Corey Blackett-Taylor, - Scott Fraser, - Miles Leaburn, - Chuks Aneke, - Panutche Camara, - Lewis Fiorini, - Michael Hector, - Rarmani Edmonds-Green, - Macauley Gillesphey, - Lloyd Jones in your squad at various points of a 46 game season is genuinely unfathomable.
It's not unfathomable and it isn't worth a study, you are severely overrating our squad.
There are a few players in that list that wouldn't look out place in a top6 side, that's about it.
I can do the study for you, one manager who had no business being appointed Charlton manager, was given the job, and then the same thing happened again, and then that manager was given about 28 games too many.
The teams around us have more quality than I think you realise, there are players in teams below us, and just above us, that stroll into our team.
Strongly disagree with this.
They’re not showing it in Charlton red, we all accept that.
But there are multiple promotions out of this division, and hundreds of Championship appearances, littered throughout the group I’ve listed. They should not be struggling as badly as they are, but that’s where we are. That’s the mystery.
On your last point, I think there are players from teams around us that look very good not playing for us but as soon as they turned up, they’d turn into stinkers. And I reckon if the likes of Fiorini or Bakinson or Ladapo went to Port Vale for instance, they’d be playing a hell of a lot better for them than they do for us.
I don't think our squad are lacking ability. What they've been lacking all season is organisation and now you can add confidence to the list. Hopefully Jones can work on the organisation (very quickly) and the confidence will follow.
IF it did happen, there should be studies done on our season because getting relegated from League One with: - Alfie May, - Freddie Ladapo, - Tyreeq Bakinson, - Conor Coventry, - George Dobson, - Corey Blackett-Taylor, - Scott Fraser, - Miles Leaburn, - Chuks Aneke, - Panutche Camara, - Lewis Fiorini, - Michael Hector, - Rarmani Edmonds-Green, - Macauley Gillesphey, - Lloyd Jones in your squad at various points of a 46 game season is genuinely unfathomable.
It's not unfathomable and it isn't worth a study, you are severely overrating our squad.
There are a few players in that list that wouldn't look out place in a top6 side, that's about it.
I can do the study for you, one manager who had no business being appointed Charlton manager, was given the job, and then the same thing happened again, and then that manager was given about 28 games too many.
The teams around us have more quality than I think you realise, there are players in teams below us, and just above us, that stroll into our team.
Once again, a list taken in isolation doesn't tell the whole story. It's worth having a look through that list of how many didn't have a proper pre season due to injury, how many were not match fit when they arrived here and how many have suffered long term injuries through the season.
Think there is a delusion amongst the whole club at the moment. I’ve heard so many times from so many people that we are not in a relegation battle, that we will be absolutely fine etc.
Without Reading’s points deduction, we would be joint 4th bottom having played more games than Port Vale.
We look like a team of complete strangers and that’s largely what we are.
39 different players used so far this season. That’ll be more when Small plays.
4 different players played at left wing back yesterday. Edun, Thomas, Watson, T.Campbell.
We started with a back 5 of: Watson, Ness, Thomas, Gillesphey, Edun
We ended it with a back 5 of: Ramsay, REG, Ness, Thomas, Campbell
Literally a new defence and even those who stayed, were playing in different positions.
It’s complete desperation from us and to add, we have stopped creating any kind of chances because we have zero creativity.
If I hear or get told by another person at or to do with the club say we are not in serious trouble and in a relegation battle I will lose my head. It’s that delusion on top of the constant change and terrible football and lack of clean sheets and no win since 29th November that is going to send us down. And to me, League Two is unimaginable. That will kill our club, the little left we have of it now.
Jones needs to come in and somehow, somehow find a way of getting 3 or 4 wins in very quick succession.
As we all know, Reading away on 10th Feb is now the biggest game of the season. We simply must win.
IF it did happen, there should be studies done on our season because getting relegated from League One with:
- Alfie May, Played out of position and gets balls lumped to him in the air v 6ft defenders
- Freddie Ladapo, Completely match unfit and not on the boil yet
- Tyreeq Bakinson, A decent midfielder enforcer but limited and no creativity in his game
- Conor Coventry, OK but not messi
- George Dobson, Grafter but not messi
- Corey Blackett-Taylor, You don't live here no more Rodney
- Scott Fraser, A good player but not played to his strengths and not performed to his potential
- Miles Leaburn, Injured
- Chuks Aneke, Never available
- Panutche Camara, Injured
- Lewis Fiorini, Not seen anything to suggest it would be surprising if he was in a team thar drops
- Michael Hector, Most disappointing signing vs potential for years and hasn't played consistently well to warrant or demonstrate supposed quality
- Rarmani Edmonds-Green, Who had heard of him before we signed him and probably elevated him to better than
- Macauley Gillesphey, Who had heard of him before we signed him and probably elevated him to better than
- Lloyd Jones Was seemingly the best defender of a bad bunch but shot past few weeks
in your squad at various points of a 46 game season is genuinely unfathomable.
Add to my comments in bold the fact the players have been mismanaged, unavailable etc for most the season I will not be surprised if we drop.
Other than May and Dobson there is no one who leads by example and no one at all who grabs the game by the scruff of the neck and demands and commands like Roy Keane.
On paper we're supposedly good because of the "they've signed for us and a few comments on other fans forums suggest they're far better than they actually are" notion but even if they're half as good as is suggested and to command one of the highest wage bills in the league then they haven't clicked and still are not. I've seen our supposedly good players outclassed and outbattled all season by better and/ or hungrier and more determined opposition players.
The previous comment about the class on paper west ham side that dropped and Leicester winning the premier league show that what is on paper is often less meaningful than what happens on the pitch.
I'll be shell shocked if we drop as the potential ramifications for the already perilous future of our club don't bear thinking about.
And we should not in theory be in this position.
But we very much are and fail to win next week are right in a relegation battle and looking as a real contender for the drop.
William Hill seem to be offering a Charlton double at 31/1 of us finishing top half and being relegated. Like printing money... 🤣
Genuinely Andy Scott when Apples was appointed said he believed our squad was Top 6 material and just needed a winning mentality. By January he had decided we needed 9 (NINE) new players. It's just dreadful management from the top.
Whoever our new manager will be comes into a squad which has injury prone players, no confidence, players with no fitness and little in the way of minutes this season and a tonne of new ones who don't know each other. The squad probably feels like it would in early July just returning from.the off season. No settled positions, no continuity etc.
Managers talk of how hard it is to integrate a whole new squad and have a successful season, imagine trying it half way through a season when the team is on its arse.
As I said elsewhere I think we will be fine and finish 12-16 BUT we are deep in the shit and if we don't click soon we will go down.
Apples was a clown; Scott has to take the blame though.
I do think with a few decent acquisitions in the summer, with a full preseason and a decent manager I think we could, note the could, have the basis of a top six side. Which makes the management selection and other cockups so bloody annoying.
I gave Coventry and Luton last month as examples of the phoenix rising from the Ashes but I didn't mean Cafc dropping to the 4th tier to prove that you can eventually make a come back to the higher divisions.
Bromley v Charlton at Ben Hayes lane is becoming a real possibility next season 🤦🏻♂️
IF it did happen, there should be studies done on our season because getting relegated from League One with: - Alfie May, - Freddie Ladapo, - Tyreeq Bakinson, - Conor Coventry, - George Dobson, - Corey Blackett-Taylor, - Scott Fraser, - Miles Leaburn, - Chuks Aneke, - Panutche Camara, - Lewis Fiorini, - Michael Hector, - Rarmani Edmonds-Green, - Macauley Gillesphey, - Lloyd Jones in your squad at various points of a 46 game season is genuinely unfathomable.
It's not unfathomable and it isn't worth a study, you are severely overrating our squad.
There are a few players in that list that wouldn't look out place in a top6 side, that's about it.
I can do the study for you, one manager who had no business being appointed Charlton manager, was given the job, and then the same thing happened again, and then that manager was given about 28 games too many.
The teams around us have more quality than I think you realise, there are players in teams below us, and just above us, that stroll into our team.
How come loads of them have played in top 6 league 1 and/or championship teams and have not looked out of place?
That applies to Isted, REG, Gillesphey, Coventry, Bakinson, Edun, T.Watson, Camara, Fiorini, Ladpao
Other than Bakinson who was more of a squad player at Sheff Wed/Ipswich, all of the above have been starters for top 6 league 1 teams or championship sides in recent years. They shouldn’t be this bad and hopefully a decent manager can sort that out
We are going to need to go on a run equivalent to a team pushing for promotion to get out of this mess.
Didn't realise we had played 39 different players this season. That statistic alone proves that those running the day to day footballing side are not up to the job they are employed to do. Abysmal is an understatement.
This season has all the hallmarks of the Championship relegation season first time around. I think a lot of people are going to have a brutal shock come May when they realise this was a lot more serious than people have it credit for.
Jones is a big enough character & higher quality manager that I will give every player a clean slate next Saturday.
It is if we come away from that game with a loss and no visible signs of serious improvement in morale & decision making across the squad that I will truly start to panic about relegation.
Think there is a delusion amongst the whole club at the moment. I’ve heard so many times from so many people that we are not in a relegation battle, that we will be absolutely fine etc.
Without Reading’s points deduction, we would be joint 4th bottom having played more games than Port Vale.
We look like a team of complete strangers and that’s largely what we are.
39 different players used so far this season. That’ll be more when Small plays.
4 different players played at left wing back yesterday. Edun, Thomas, Watson, T.Campbell.
We started with a back 5 of: Watson, Ness, Thomas, Gillesphey, Edun
We ended it with a back 5 of: Ramsay, REG, Ness, Thomas, Campbell
Literally a new defence and even those who stayed, were playing in different positions.
It’s complete desperation from us and to add, we have stopped creating any kind of chances because we have zero creativity.
If I hear or get told by another person at or to do with the club say we are not in serious trouble and in a relegation battle I will lose my head. It’s that delusion on top of the constant change and terrible football and lack of clean sheets and no win since 29th November that is going to send us down. And to me, League Two is unimaginable. That will kill our club, the little left we have of it now.
Jones needs to come in and somehow, somehow find a way of getting 3 or 4 wins in very quick succession.
As we all know, Reading away on 10th Feb is now the biggest game of the season. We simply must win.
As usual, Sage summarises precisely & concisely one of the major reasons why we find us hovering dangerously close to the relegation places.
If the faithful find it difficult to name all the players that have played their part in our downfall this season, then what the feck are the chances of them gaining any kind of momentum as a team ?
How many different formations have we witnessed thus far ? How many times have we sent out identical starting line ups ?
OK, injuries have invariably affected team selection but that's nothing new.
But, that aside, I'd venture to say that the 3 most recent managers have destroyed any cohesion that has dared to show its head above the parapet. And with it, the confidence of players that have been involved in this chaotic set up. Too many different ideas in a short period of time & differing opinions as to the merit of certain squad members
Some will rise above the ongoing on field issues & give 100% because as pros, that's what they do. Think Dobbo, Alfie, Terrell - examples of those that will bust a gut match after match-it's in their DNA. And as a result, we single them out for praise & on the whole forgive mistakes inevitably made over the course of a match. They've earned our respect, if you like.
But, as has been posted numerous times since August, some fall outside this categorisation, mainly because we see them so infrequently - their appearances are few & far berween....not necessarily because we don't rate them but they are "also rans" in the overall picture.
Think I'm starting to lose my point but the old adage " Too many cooks..." comes to mind. And with it, too many instances of change in both personnel on & off the pitch and their modus operandi.
And, if true, maybe Dean Holden had a valid point when he's quoted to have stated he wanted a "small squad " ?
So, when Nathan returns home, it goes without saying that he has a mammoth task in front of him. The result of months of disarray & confusion require his attention from Day 1 together with installing belief in the squad that together, they will succeed.
And that they have within them enough to achieve said aim.
WE must give him time, albeit this is limited, to perform something some might say is virtually impossible.
We are going to need to go on a run equivalent to a team pushing for promotion to get out of this mess.
Didn't realise we had played 39 different players this season. That statistic alone proves that those running the day to day footballing side are not up to the job they are employed to do. Abysmal is an understatement.
Not really, we could stay up winning 5, drawing 5 and losing the rest. Somewhere around 50 points is usually enough.
people keep saying how good the players in our squad are. But we are still 3pts from relegation, I do not believe that the squad is that good. Maybe we get these because they are passed their use by date, they are crocks trying to prove they are not, are youth players not cutting it in their own teams etc. It is want it feels like for the last 4 or 5 seasons.
Comments
That’s why I’m saying it’s worth a study. Because these players aren’t this bad. Until they turn up at Charlton.
Port Vale win either of their next 2 games (or get 2 draws).
Reading pick up at least a point in midweek.
We lose to Reading next weekend.
Then we will be in the relegation zone this time next Saturday.
David James
Bowyer
Carrick
Defoe
Di Canio
Freddie Kanoute
Glen Johnson
Joe Cole
https://www.planetfootball.com/nostalgia/too-good-to-go-down-how-a-talented-west-ham-were-relegated-in-2003
There are a few players in that list that wouldn't look out place in a top6 side, that's about it.
I can do the study for you, one manager who had no business being appointed Charlton manager, was given the job, and then the same thing happened again, and then that manager was given about 28 games too many.
The teams around us have more quality than I think you realise, there are players in teams below us, and just above us, that stroll into our team.
They’re not showing it in Charlton red, we all accept that.
But there are multiple promotions out of this division, and hundreds of Championship appearances, littered throughout the group I’ve listed. They should not be struggling as badly as they are, but that’s where we are. That’s the mystery.
On your last point, I think there are players from teams around us that look very good not playing for us but as soon as they turned up, they’d turn into stinkers. And I reckon if the likes of Fiorini or Bakinson or Ladapo went to Port Vale for instance, they’d be playing a hell of a lot better for them than they do for us.
https://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/league-1/english-league-one/relegation
Without Reading’s points deduction, we would be joint 4th bottom having played more games than Port Vale.
We look like a team of complete strangers and that’s largely what we are.
39 different players used so far this season. That’ll be more when Small plays.
4 different players played at left wing back yesterday. Edun, Thomas, Watson, T.Campbell.
We started with a back 5 of:
Watson, Ness, Thomas, Gillesphey, Edun
We ended it with a back 5 of:
Ramsay, REG, Ness, Thomas, Campbell
Literally a new defence and even those who stayed, were playing in different positions.
It’s complete desperation from us and to add, we have stopped creating any kind of chances because we have zero creativity.
If I hear or get told by another person at or to do with the club say we are not in serious trouble and in a relegation battle I will lose my head. It’s that delusion on top of the constant change and terrible football and lack of clean sheets and no win since 29th November that is going to send us down. And to me, League Two is unimaginable. That will kill our club, the little left we have of it now.
Jones needs to come in and somehow, somehow find a way of getting 3 or 4 wins in very quick succession.
As we all know, Reading away on 10th Feb is now the biggest game of the season. We simply must win.
Other than May and Dobson there is no one who leads by example and no one at all who grabs the game by the scruff of the neck and demands and commands like Roy Keane.
On paper we're supposedly good because of the "they've signed for us and a few comments on other fans forums suggest they're far better than they actually are" notion but even if they're half as good as is suggested and to command one of the highest wage bills in the league then they haven't clicked and still are not. I've seen our supposedly good players outclassed and outbattled all season by better and/ or hungrier and more determined opposition players.
The previous comment about the class on paper west ham side that dropped and Leicester winning the premier league show that what is on paper is often less meaningful than what happens on the pitch.
I'll be shell shocked if we drop as the potential ramifications for the already perilous future of our club don't bear thinking about.
And we should not in theory be in this position.
But we very much are and fail to win next week are right in a relegation battle and looking as a real contender for the drop.
Crazy but true.
William Hill seem to be offering a Charlton double at 31/1 of us finishing top half and being relegated. Like printing money... 🤣
Genuinely Andy Scott when Apples was appointed said he believed our squad was Top 6 material and just needed a winning mentality. By January he had decided we needed 9 (NINE) new players. It's just dreadful management from the top.
Whoever our new manager will be comes into a squad which has injury prone players, no confidence, players with no fitness and little in the way of minutes this season and a tonne of new ones who don't know each other. The squad probably feels like it would in early July just returning from.the off season. No settled positions, no continuity etc.
Managers talk of how hard it is to integrate a whole new squad and have a successful season, imagine trying it half way through a season when the team is on its arse.
As I said elsewhere I think we will be fine and finish 12-16 BUT we are deep in the shit and if we don't click soon we will go down.
Apples was a clown; Scott has to take the blame though.
Bromley v Charlton at Ben Hayes lane is becoming a real possibility next season 🤦🏻♂️
And I'll rent out my parking space for a fiver if anyone's interested 😄.
Other than Bakinson who was more of a squad player at Sheff Wed/Ipswich, all of the above have been starters for top 6 league 1 teams or championship sides in recent years. They shouldn’t be this bad and hopefully a decent manager can sort that out
This could have all been so easily avoided.
It is if we come away from that game with a loss and no visible signs of serious improvement in morale & decision making across the squad that I will truly start to panic about relegation.
If the faithful find it difficult to name all the players that have played their part in our downfall this season, then what the feck are the chances of them gaining any kind of momentum as a team ?
How many different formations have we witnessed thus far ? How many times have we sent out identical starting line ups ?
OK, injuries have invariably affected team selection but that's nothing new.
But, that aside, I'd venture to say that the 3 most recent managers have destroyed any cohesion that has dared to show its head above the parapet. And with it, the confidence of players that have been involved in this chaotic set up. Too many different ideas in a short period of time & differing opinions as to the merit of certain squad members
Some will rise above the ongoing on field issues & give 100% because as pros, that's what they do. Think Dobbo, Alfie, Terrell - examples of those that will bust a gut match after match-it's in their DNA. And as a result, we single them out for praise & on the whole forgive mistakes inevitably made over the course of a match. They've earned our respect, if you like.
But, as has been posted numerous times since August, some fall outside this categorisation, mainly because we see them so infrequently - their appearances are few & far berween....not necessarily because we don't rate them but they are "also rans" in the overall picture.
Think I'm starting to lose my point but the old adage " Too many cooks..." comes to mind. And with it, too many instances of change in both personnel on & off the pitch and their modus operandi.
And, if true, maybe Dean Holden had a valid point when he's quoted to have stated he wanted a "small squad " ?
So, when Nathan returns home, it goes without saying that he has a mammoth task in front of him. The result of months of disarray & confusion require his attention from Day 1 together with installing belief in the squad that together, they will succeed.
And that they have within them enough to achieve said aim.
WE must give him time, albeit this is limited, to perform something some might say is virtually impossible.
Perhaps one word and one word only is required...
MIRACLE.
Maybe we get these because they are passed their use by date, they are crocks trying to prove they are not, are youth players not cutting it in their own teams etc.
It is want it feels like for the last 4 or 5 seasons.