Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................

1…123124126128129…137

Comments

  • NabySarr
    NabySarr Posts: 5,185
    Leuth said:
    NabySarr said:
    Leuth said:
    cafcnick1992 said:
    Leuth said:
    cafcnick1992 said:
    Are any of the anti-NJ brigade brave enough to tell us where they think Charlton should be finishing in the Championship in their first season back?

    After the start we had, not in the bottom three. If we'd been down there all season this would be a different conversation. 

    Also, we're not minnows at Championship level ffs
    We're not in the bottom 3. We're 7 points clear.

    Also don't dodge the question - where should we be finishing?
    Probably about 18th or 19th, given our established style of play, decent spine and summer expenditure? 
    So you agree that having continuity in style is a good thing that means you finish higher in the table? But would sack the manager and change style if we got relegated? 
    Relegation is traditionally the moment to rethink, yes. 

    Like I say, hopefully we finish 18th or 19th and don't have to have this conversation again
    The problem is that we have this conversation every time we lose a few games because our fan base has no patience. If we finish 18th there will be some questioning whether Jones is right to take us forward (already see it in this thread), then at the first opportunity next season if we are on a bad run they’ll all be back again 


  • oohaahmortimer
    oohaahmortimer Posts: 34,627
    Chop and change and find the right one
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,864
    I would keep Jones regardless of what division we are in next season.  However, I'd be in favour of a possible change if we are not doing well after the first ten games.
    I would certainly take away his influence on player recruitment and also look to expand the scouting network such as it is. 
    As much as Scott was a failure we have not done too much better without him.
  • NabySarr
    NabySarr Posts: 5,185
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Chop and change and find the right one
    Look a bit longer term and they’ve gone from Harris and then Rowett both for long spells, they then tried to switch up their playing style with Edwards and it went badly wrong, so went back to Harris and then got Neil in long term. 

    The lesson to learn there is that they’ve been successful by sticking with pragmatic managers that play direct football. The only time they went wrong was when they tried to stray away from that 

    We should be backing Jones long term (which we are), but if we do need another manager at some point we shouldn’t be trying to significantly change the way we play
  • cafc_se7
    cafc_se7 Posts: 2,392
    Leuth said:
    cafcnick1992 said:
    Are any of the anti-NJ brigade brave enough to tell us where they think Charlton should be finishing in the Championship in their first season back?

    After the start we had, not in the bottom three. If we'd been down there all season this would be a different conversation. 

    Also, we're not minnows at Championship level ffs
    See I’m sorry Leuth but what you say right there is the part of the issue. In respect of established teams along with the financial side, whether you like it or not, we are minnows in the championship. The sooner our whole fan base accept that and let go of the fact we were in the premiership two decades ago, the better! 

    This is why people lose patience with Jones and his style so quickly. We are living in the past! 
  • elbiglad
    elbiglad Posts: 141
    edited February 19
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I don't know what every fan wants. For me, having watched us descend into mid-table League 1 mediocrity since we last got relegated, all I care about is staying up. With our current squad (shaped in NJ's style), I think the best way to do that is through a pragmatic approach. If we draw every game 0-0 for the rest of the year we stay up and I'd be delighted. Outwork teams, keep it tight and take your chances seem to be our principles and I support that - for now.

    I'd love us to eventually get to a point where we could play more exciting football. But for now I'll take scrappy wins, hard fought draws and our fair share of defeats if it means survival. If this football is being played and our results haven't improved after a significant financial outlay in the summer, it's a different story. If we've managed to build a squad that is capable of doing more, then I will also be questioning whether Jones is the right man. But we're not there yet. You have to accept where we are in our 'journey' and where we are in the food chain.

    Are people's memories so short that they forget we tried to hire a young philosophical manager in Ben Garner and it failed pretty miserably? I vividly remember people sat around me screaming 'FORWARDDDDDD!' every ten seconds and getting incredibly fed up with our possession based approach. 
  • paulsturgess
    paulsturgess Posts: 4,187
    NabySarr said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Chop and change and find the right one
    Look a bit longer term and they’ve gone from Harris and then Rowett both for long spells, they then tried to switch up their playing style with Edwards and it went badly wrong, so went back to Harris and then got Neil in long term. 

    The lesson to learn there is that they’ve been successful by sticking with pragmatic managers that play direct football. The only time they went wrong was when they tried to stray away from that 

    We should be backing Jones long term (which we are), but if we do need another manager at some point we shouldn’t be trying to significantly change the way we play
    successful in avoiding relegation scraps but not with those managers in challenging at the upper end 

    I'm very much only thinking about the here and now and survival at the minute and I back him to do that

    but it is just so hard to see Jones in the long term the way he is constantly arguing with and bitching at our fans and is just so sensitive

    no Charlton Athletic manager should expect to be forgiven in a week or 2 after a disgraceful, humiliating, pathetic, embarrassing, shameful - the words can go on - showing like that at Millwall - should rightly be under ongoing scrutiny after something like that regardless of whatever else occurred prior

    he seems so stubborn and inflexible system / tactically wise - which is why we have basically zero to ever offer once we concede a goal

    Let's see what pans out the rest of the season, one step at a time, keep us up and try and take us forward 

    I want him to succeed obviously but i just know I will never really like the guy which is a problem for me... when he fist pumps the fans after a win I don't feel any love 

    Jones is functional doing a job and for that I applaud him but I need the love too 
  • cafcnick1992
    cafcnick1992 Posts: 7,665
    You need Jones to love you?
  • paulsturgess
    paulsturgess Posts: 4,187
    No… I need to love him , and if I don’t already I never will that’s the sad truth 
  • NabySarr
    NabySarr Posts: 5,185
    paulsturgess said:
    NabySarr said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Chop and change and find the right one
    Look a bit longer term and they’ve gone from Harris and then Rowett both for long spells, they then tried to switch up their playing style with Edwards and it went badly wrong, so went back to Harris and then got Neil in long term. 

    The lesson to learn there is that they’ve been successful by sticking with pragmatic managers that play direct football. The only time they went wrong was when they tried to stray away from that 

    We should be backing Jones long term (which we are), but if we do need another manager at some point we shouldn’t be trying to significantly change the way we play
    successful in avoiding relegation scraps but not with those managers in challenging at the upper end 

    I'm very much only thinking about the here and now and survival at the minute and I back him to do that

    but it is just so hard to see Jones in the long term the way he is constantly arguing with and bitching at our fans and is just so sensitive

    no Charlton Athletic manager should expect to be forgiven in a week or 2 after a disgraceful, humiliating, pathetic, embarrassing, shameful - the words can go on - showing like that at Millwall - should rightly be under ongoing scrutiny after something like that regardless of whatever else occurred prior

    he seems so stubborn and inflexible system / tactically wise - which is why we have basically zero to ever offer once we concede a goal

    Let's see what pans out the rest of the season, one step at a time, keep us up and try and take us forward 

    I want him to succeed obviously but i just know I will never really like the guy which is a problem for me... when he fist pumps the fans after a win I don't feel any love 

    Jones is functional doing a job and for that I applaud him but I need the love too 
    Millwall have only finished in the bottom half twice since returning to the championship. Those managers had them up there competing for play off positions, this year it looks like Neill will have them in one 

    Jones did similar at Luton, got them punching well above their weight and into the play offs. 

    To look at it differently. How many championship teams have massively outperformed their budget and got into the play offs by playing an attractive style of football? I can’t think of any really, if you want to get into the play offs you either need a top budget or you need to do things differently 

    More teams overperform at this level by playing direct football. If you try and play the same football the teams with money do, then they’re going to most likely do it better than you do. To overperform like we are doing at the moment and want to carry on doing, the direct approach is the best 

  • Sponsored links:



  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,864
    When he gets the boot, may I be the first to say that Sir Chris Powell is not the answer to come back and manage us.
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 21,366
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    When he gets the boot, may I be the first to say that Sir Chris Powell is not the answer to come back and manage us.

    ... and I'll be the second to say it. If we're going for an ex-manager then there is only one who should be considered.

    The circus of Karel Fraeye Chicago Addick





  • Crispywood
    Crispywood Posts: 1,257
    NabySarr said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Chop and change and find the right one
    Look a bit longer term and they’ve gone from Harris and then Rowett both for long spells, they then tried to switch up their playing style with Edwards and it went badly wrong, so went back to Harris and then got Neil in long term. 

    The lesson to learn there is that they’ve been successful by sticking with pragmatic managers that play direct football. The only time they went wrong was when they tried to stray away from that 

    We should be backing Jones long term (which we are), but if we do need another manager at some point we shouldn’t be trying to significantly change the way we play
    Exactly this we can talk about playing nice football but this entire team has been built around being aggressive physical and direct. Don’t think any manager is going to suddenly get a team that ranks 22nd for Possession 24th for accurate passes to play nice football. Besides arguably Bell, Kayne, Coady, Coventry, JRC a lot of these players can’t operate with the ball at their feet 
  • Sword65pf
    Sword65pf Posts: 1,369
    Crispywood said:
    NabySarr said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Chop and change and find the right one
    Look a bit longer term and they’ve gone from Harris and then Rowett both for long spells, they then tried to switch up their playing style with Edwards and it went badly wrong, so went back to Harris and then got Neil in long term. 

    The lesson to learn there is that they’ve been successful by sticking with pragmatic managers that play direct football. The only time they went wrong was when they tried to stray away from that 

    We should be backing Jones long term (which we are), but if we do need another manager at some point we shouldn’t be trying to significantly change the way we play
    Exactly this we can talk about playing nice football but this entire team has been built around being aggressive physical and direct. Don’t think any manager is going to suddenly get a team that ranks 22nd for Possession 24th for accurate passes to play nice football. Besides arguably Bell, Kayne, Coady, Coventry, JRC a lot of these players can’t operate with the ball at their feet 
    Seems a bit of an odd comment for a pro footballer, not being able to operate with the ball at their feet😂 
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,864
    bobmunro said:
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    When he gets the boot, may I be the first to say that Sir Chris Powell is not the answer to come back and manage us.

    ... and I'll be the second to say it. If we're going for an ex-manager then there is only one who should be considered.

    The circus of Karel Fraeye Chicago Addick






    Worst ever managerial appointment in our history by a long way.
  • Treacey1969
    Treacey1969 Posts: 176
    Crispywood said:
    Treacey1969 said:
    Crispywood said:
    Treacey1969 said:
    Seriously how can you want NJ to be in charge. Notwithstanding his antics when we win his behaviour after Stoke but most importantly last night against a fan in the covered end after the game was manic. You have to worry if this at times is transferred to the players. We all can pick formations and players but I feel his ability to recognise his formation is being worked out by other managers is poor. We of course have no divine right to win every game and it's often said that survival this season would be a win. The reality however is that last minute winners plus typically the luck against Sheffield United have kept us out of the bottom 3. The football is not pretty and not inventive enough plus yesterday against pompey there was little fight. Yes NJ did great to get us out of Division 1 but it's the championship now (obviously) and too often his team is lacking. For me he has to go.
    A managers job is to win football matches end of. If you think Jones isn’t the man to get results then that’s fair enough and that’s a fair discussion . 

    But wanting him out based on not playing pretty and inventive football and not sucking up to the fans 24/7 shows A) a sense of entitlement that we think we can out play teams with a below average squad for this level and B that you let feelings and emotions override logic which is ironic because that is exactly what Jones get criticised for. 

    Dean Holden tries to play better football than Nathan Jones and is 100x more likeable but that doesn’t mean he’s a better manager than Jones. 

    Jones is not exempt from criticism and he isn’t flawless but he is overachieving in comparison to his budget and quality of the squad 
    What a pathetic response. Mine is an opinion yet you criticise by stating a "sense of entitlement"

    As a supporter of 60 odd years I think it's OK to have an opinion not an entitlement. Obviously others may not agree with that stance but mine is logic not emotions.

    End of.
    Said there is nothing wrong with not liking Jones. I get his style is boring his team selections can be questionable but if you think a good manager is based on how nice they are to fans and thinking Greg Docherty is going to control games of football then that’s not logic. 
    Think you need to re read the thread. At what point did Greg Docherty get mentioned other than yourself. Also my point on Jones actions towards fans hinted how manic he is which may transmit to the team not whether he is good or not. Any management style in all walks of life needs to evolve and those who treat success and failure equally tend to succeed. 
  • shirty5
    shirty5 Posts: 19,640
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0n22bxn
  • Off_it
    Off_it Posts: 29,182
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Chop and change and find the right one
    "Chop and change and find the right one".

    We've had 6 managers in 5 years and this current one got us promoted and is in with a good shout of keeping us up this year, against the odds.

    Or is that what you meant?
  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 38,516
    Sword65pf said:
    Crispywood said:
    NabySarr said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Chop and change and find the right one
    Look a bit longer term and they’ve gone from Harris and then Rowett both for long spells, they then tried to switch up their playing style with Edwards and it went badly wrong, so went back to Harris and then got Neil in long term. 

    The lesson to learn there is that they’ve been successful by sticking with pragmatic managers that play direct football. The only time they went wrong was when they tried to stray away from that 

    We should be backing Jones long term (which we are), but if we do need another manager at some point we shouldn’t be trying to significantly change the way we play
    Exactly this we can talk about playing nice football but this entire team has been built around being aggressive physical and direct. Don’t think any manager is going to suddenly get a team that ranks 22nd for Possession 24th for accurate passes to play nice football. Besides arguably Bell, Kayne, Coady, Coventry, JRC a lot of these players can’t operate with the ball at their feet 
    Seems a bit of an odd comment for a pro footballer, not being able to operate with the ball at their feet😂 
    It’s relative to the league you’re in. We’re one of the worst teams on the ball because we have one of the lowest budgets and were in L1 last season.
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 36,741
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    bobmunro said:
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    When he gets the boot, may I be the first to say that Sir Chris Powell is not the answer to come back and manage us.

    ... and I'll be the second to say it. If we're going for an ex-manager then there is only one who should be considered.

    The circus of Karel Fraeye Chicago Addick






    Worst ever managerial appointment in our history by a long way.
    Honourable mentions for Dowie and Les Reed who i think actually had a worse PPG record than Fraeye.

  • Sponsored links:



  • Sword65pf
    Sword65pf Posts: 1,369
    Scoham said:
    Sword65pf said:
    Crispywood said:
    NabySarr said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Chop and change and find the right one
    Look a bit longer term and they’ve gone from Harris and then Rowett both for long spells, they then tried to switch up their playing style with Edwards and it went badly wrong, so went back to Harris and then got Neil in long term. 

    The lesson to learn there is that they’ve been successful by sticking with pragmatic managers that play direct football. The only time they went wrong was when they tried to stray away from that 

    We should be backing Jones long term (which we are), but if we do need another manager at some point we shouldn’t be trying to significantly change the way we play
    Exactly this we can talk about playing nice football but this entire team has been built around being aggressive physical and direct. Don’t think any manager is going to suddenly get a team that ranks 22nd for Possession 24th for accurate passes to play nice football. Besides arguably Bell, Kayne, Coady, Coventry, JRC a lot of these players can’t operate with the ball at their feet 
    Seems a bit of an odd comment for a pro footballer, not being able to operate with the ball at their feet😂 
    It’s relative to the league you’re in. We’re one of the worst teams on the ball because we have one of the lowest budgets and were in L1 last season.
    I get the point but don’t completely agree, I’ve seen low budget teams play good football. 
  • FirenzeAddick
    FirenzeAddick Posts: 68
    I don't like Jones as a character and I don't think he holds any affinity towards the fans, but there is zero doubt he has done an excellent job in progressing the club.

    My concern like many others is whether he can evolve this side over the summer (subject to us staying up). It is not that we purely want to see beautiful football.... We are just very one dimensional as a team and he clearly has a massive blind spot on what is required in the middle.

    To progress its clear we need to keep our solidity, but we need to be able to ask questions of teams in different ways by recruiting players who can offer inventive & creative passing, better movement, or by introducing pace in new areas etc.

    If we don't do that over the summer we stand no chance of developing and moving up the table in coming seasons.
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 52,017
    Leuth said:
    NabySarr said:
    Leuth said:
    I support him and appreciate his work, but if we go down I want Jones fired within 4 milliseconds 
    We won’t go down but is there a better manager to get us out of league 1 than Nathan Jones? 
    Surely. And whoever it is, he'll have a squad suited for the purpose. We might even dominate a few games 

    I mean, we’ve had a mix really. Some performances have been genuinely dominant, though probably too few and far between, while others have been proper nail biters, as evidenced by Jones on the touchline gnawing his fingers off. But this is our first season back in a league that’s clearly a different beast compared to previous promotion campaigns.

    Plenty of sides rack up shots against us, but when you look closer, not many are actually troubling the keeper. The backline blocks a ton, and Kaminski has generally been solid, maybe not spectacular, but dependable for the most part.

    Our bigger issue is at the other end. We need to feed the strikers more, and too often the midfield just doesn’t provide that with enough quality or consistency. Rankin-Costello and Carey have probably been the brightest sparks in those roles, but it’s a tricky balance. Carey offers genuine goal threat, yet when the strikers have received the ball in good areas, they’ve not exactly been clinical.

    So while JRC’s passing ability could improve our chance creation, it likely reduces the opportunities for Carey’s late runs into the box, which have been one of our more reliable sources of goals.

    It’s a tough call, do you favour the better playmaker or the better goal scorer?

    That said, the midfield overall has looked more stable with Coventry replaced by Coady and Docherty back in the side, well, until the last game anyway.



  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 18,026
    edited February 20
    We haven't been good to watch for a very long time. Maybe a two game spell under Ben Garner, and then I can't remember the last time. Even Lee Bowyer's brand was very low chance creation, although it had decent spells as well. Powell's was not good, and everyone knew that. And then there's Slade, Appleton, Adkins, JJ with his similar lack of a midfield as we're seeing now... Take your pick.

    We're never going to pass rings around people with a bottom three budget in this league. It's not a realistic ask. 
  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 38,516
    Sword65pf said:
    Scoham said:
    Sword65pf said:
    Crispywood said:
    NabySarr said:
    oohaahmortimer said:
    Chop and change and find the right one
    Look a bit longer term and they’ve gone from Harris and then Rowett both for long spells, they then tried to switch up their playing style with Edwards and it went badly wrong, so went back to Harris and then got Neil in long term. 

    The lesson to learn there is that they’ve been successful by sticking with pragmatic managers that play direct football. The only time they went wrong was when they tried to stray away from that 

    We should be backing Jones long term (which we are), but if we do need another manager at some point we shouldn’t be trying to significantly change the way we play
    Exactly this we can talk about playing nice football but this entire team has been built around being aggressive physical and direct. Don’t think any manager is going to suddenly get a team that ranks 22nd for Possession 24th for accurate passes to play nice football. Besides arguably Bell, Kayne, Coady, Coventry, JRC a lot of these players can’t operate with the ball at their feet 
    Seems a bit of an odd comment for a pro footballer, not being able to operate with the ball at their feet😂 
    It’s relative to the league you’re in. We’re one of the worst teams on the ball because we have one of the lowest budgets and were in L1 last season.
    I get the point but don’t completely agree, I’ve seen low budget teams play good football. 
    Of course, but they don’t usually stay up and keep progressing each season, it usually catches up with them.

    In general it requires more patience and money than building a team who play more direct and defensive football.
  • superdulvertonred
    superdulvertonred Posts: 1,189
    Don’t know what people want a manager who stopped us getting relegated first season promoted second season and loos like keeping us in the Championship this season by my reckoning that makes NJ a good manager. You don’t have to like him (personally I love his passion and commitment) to recognise what he has achieved but to criticise him and want him out I don’t understand 
  • Sword65pf
    Sword65pf Posts: 1,369
    The people that want him out, either have a beef with him or just simply don’t like him so use a poor defeat as fuel to the fire, as it stands he has done a great job, not pretty at times but for now it’s a price to pay, he deserves the chance to evolve the the team and himself., I’m sure there are plenty of fans he’s not keen on, but he’s not asking to have them kicked out of the valley!!😂
  • raytreacy
    raytreacy Posts: 184
    edited February 20
    cafcnick1992 said:
    Are any of the anti-NJ brigade brave enough to tell us where they think Charlton should be finishing in the Championship in their first season back?

    I am not anti Jones the argument is more nuanced than that. As a Season ticket holder I hate his style of football. Yes I want us to stay in this division and I will be over the moon if we do stay. But going forward we need to improve and I don’t think Jones is the right person to do that. 
    We haven’t got the players to out pass teams. I would like the ball passed more on the floor with more movement in the midfield and attack. These are Jones players, with a few exceptions, he bought these players in to play a certain style. I as a Charlton supporter of 64 years have a right to an opinion that says I don’t like that style and would like the football mixed up a bit. 
    To answer your question I think we are lucky this Season that Sheff Wed and Leicester have had points deduction’s. At the beginning of the Season I thought we would stay up finishing fourth or fifth from bottom.
    I now feel that we will get relegated. I can’t see how we are going to get the points needed to stay up.
  • fenaddick
    fenaddick Posts: 16,281
    raytreacy said:
    cafcnick1992 said:
    Are any of the anti-NJ brigade brave enough to tell us where they think Charlton should be finishing in the Championship in their first season back?

    I am not anti Jones the argument is more nuanced than that. As a Season ticket holder I hate his style of football. Yes I want us to stay in this division and I will be over the moon if we do stay. But going forward we need to improve and I don’t think Jones is the right person to do that. 
    We haven’t got the players to out pass teams. I would like the ball passed more on the floor with more movement in the midfield and attack. These are Jones players, with a few exceptions, he bought these players in to play a certain style. I as a Charlton supporter of 64 years have a right to an opinion that says I don’t like that style and would like the football mixed up a bit. 
    To answer your question I think we are lucky this Season that Sheff Wed and Leicester have had points deduction’s. At the beginning of the Season I thought we would stay up finishing fourth or fifth from bottom.
    I now feel that we will get relegated. I can’t see how we are going to get the points needed to stay up.
    I think these points in bold are valid but ignore the context of who we are as a club. The kinds of players we would all like to see are expensive and hard to attract. NJ clearly aimed for slightly different as we know he wanted Galbraith who is a ball player. To me I think he realised those players were hard to attract last summer and pivoted to a more physical style. I have faith that the squad and playing style will evolve 
  • Crispywood
    Crispywood Posts: 1,257
    When Nathan Jones took Luton to 6th in the championship he still ranked 23rd for possession and 23rd for accurate passes per match. 

    I doubt we will ever seen entertaining fun football under Jones. But end of the day question is what do you want to prioritise good football or good results you can try to do both but didn’t exactly work out for Plymouth or Birmingham and multiple other examples. Even Oxford now 1 win in 8 under Bloomfield 

Categories

“Marketplace”