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I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................
Comments
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Callu??ElfsborgAddick said:
Take away the 'm'.Bedsaddick said:
I certainly admire your optimism Callum but sadly I don’t think many share it .Callumcafc said:
I’m saying the style of play argument would disappear as soon as we win a few games and therefore it’s a weak argument against Jones compared to just being honest and saying you don’t like that we’re not winning.paulsturgess said:
Repeat a question from before.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
What point are you making here Callum? As I’m not clear. It feels like you are defending Jones, his style, and his outcomes merely for the sake of being contrary.Do you believe in his tactics/ philosophy and do you think he will succeed?People see negatives when we don’t get results and they see the positives when we do get results. Ben Garner set up with the opposite style to NJ (surely this is the type of manager we want if we want attacking football) and still got panned by fans - because we stopped winning games.There is no right or wrong way to play football and only results tend to matter.
And yes, I do believe that the way Jones intends to have our team play can get results and can be successful. It’s not been so successful lately (over a period of less than two months) but I’m willing to give him more time.20 -
Why is it optimistic to think a manager who’s been successful before can do it again?Bedsaddick said:
I certainly admire your optimism Callum but sadly I don’t think many share it .Callumcafc said:
I’m saying the style of play argument would disappear as soon as we win a few games and therefore it’s a weak argument against Jones compared to just being honest and saying you don’t like that we’re not winning.paulsturgess said:
Repeat a question from before.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
What point are you making here Callum? As I’m not clear. It feels like you are defending Jones, his style, and his outcomes merely for the sake of being contrary.Do you believe in his tactics/ philosophy and do you think he will succeed?People see negatives when we don’t get results and they see the positives when we do get results. Ben Garner set up with the opposite style to NJ (surely this is the type of manager we want if we want attacking football) and still got panned by fans - because we stopped winning games.There is no right or wrong way to play football and only results tend to matter.
And yes, I do believe that the way Jones intends to have our team play can get results and can be successful. It’s not been so successful lately (over a period of less than two months) but I’m willing to give him more time.0 -
The deep press appears to have been ditched.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
0 -
He’s been successful once and abysmal twice, this is his fourth attempt and it’s going down the abysmal route so his success rate will be 25%Callumcafc said:
Why is it optimistic to think a manager who’s been successful before can do it again?Bedsaddick said:
I certainly admire your optimism Callum but sadly I don’t think many share it .Callumcafc said:
I’m saying the style of play argument would disappear as soon as we win a few games and therefore it’s a weak argument against Jones compared to just being honest and saying you don’t like that we’re not winning.paulsturgess said:
Repeat a question from before.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
What point are you making here Callum? As I’m not clear. It feels like you are defending Jones, his style, and his outcomes merely for the sake of being contrary.Do you believe in his tactics/ philosophy and do you think he will succeed?People see negatives when we don’t get results and they see the positives when we do get results. Ben Garner set up with the opposite style to NJ (surely this is the type of manager we want if we want attacking football) and still got panned by fans - because we stopped winning games.There is no right or wrong way to play football and only results tend to matter.
And yes, I do believe that the way Jones intends to have our team play can get results and can be successful. It’s not been so successful lately (over a period of less than two months) but I’m willing to give him more time.1 -
He's been successful twice... No?eaststandmike said:
He’s been successful once and abysmal twice, this is his fourth attempt and it’s going down the abysmal route so his success rate will be 25%Callumcafc said:
Why is it optimistic to think a manager who’s been successful before can do it again?Bedsaddick said:
I certainly admire your optimism Callum but sadly I don’t think many share it .Callumcafc said:
I’m saying the style of play argument would disappear as soon as we win a few games and therefore it’s a weak argument against Jones compared to just being honest and saying you don’t like that we’re not winning.paulsturgess said:
Repeat a question from before.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
What point are you making here Callum? As I’m not clear. It feels like you are defending Jones, his style, and his outcomes merely for the sake of being contrary.Do you believe in his tactics/ philosophy and do you think he will succeed?People see negatives when we don’t get results and they see the positives when we do get results. Ben Garner set up with the opposite style to NJ (surely this is the type of manager we want if we want attacking football) and still got panned by fans - because we stopped winning games.There is no right or wrong way to play football and only results tend to matter.
And yes, I do believe that the way Jones intends to have our team play can get results and can be successful. It’s not been so successful lately (over a period of less than two months) but I’m willing to give him more time.
Once when he got Luton into the Championship, then he went away, came back and kept them in the Championship0 -
Is being hopeful of a positive outcome not literally the definition of being optimistic?Callumcafc said:
Why is it optimistic to think a manager who’s been successful before can do it again?Bedsaddick said:
I certainly admire your optimism Callum but sadly I don’t think many share it .Callumcafc said:
I’m saying the style of play argument would disappear as soon as we win a few games and therefore it’s a weak argument against Jones compared to just being honest and saying you don’t like that we’re not winning.paulsturgess said:
Repeat a question from before.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
What point are you making here Callum? As I’m not clear. It feels like you are defending Jones, his style, and his outcomes merely for the sake of being contrary.Do you believe in his tactics/ philosophy and do you think he will succeed?People see negatives when we don’t get results and they see the positives when we do get results. Ben Garner set up with the opposite style to NJ (surely this is the type of manager we want if we want attacking football) and still got panned by fans - because we stopped winning games.There is no right or wrong way to play football and only results tend to matter.
And yes, I do believe that the way Jones intends to have our team play can get results and can be successful. It’s not been so successful lately (over a period of less than two months) but I’m willing to give him more time.1 -
I don’t think it is a weak argument because the style of play we are seeing is not one that gets promoted out of league 1. It works against the better sides that play out from the back and want to keep the ball, but picking up results against those sides isn’t enough to be promoted, especially when a lot of them are draws. We need to have more to our attack than high presses and long diagonal ballsCallumcafc said:
I’m saying the style of play argument would disappear as soon as we win a few games and therefore it’s a weak argument against Jones compared to just being honest and saying you don’t like that we’re not winning.paulsturgess said:
Repeat a question from before.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
What point are you making here Callum? As I’m not clear. It feels like you are defending Jones, his style, and his outcomes merely for the sake of being contrary.Do you believe in his tactics/ philosophy and do you think he will succeed?People see negatives when we don’t get results and they see the positives when we do get results. Ben Garner set up with the opposite style to NJ (surely this is the type of manager we want if we want attacking football) and still got panned by fans - because we stopped winning games.There is no right or wrong way to play football and only results tend to matter.
And yes, I do believe that the way Jones intends to have our team play can get results and can be successful. It’s not been so successful lately (over a period of less than two months) but I’m willing to give him more time.
He needs to evolve our style of play, which is what I was hoping we’d see after grinding out the first few wins, players, patterns of play and combinations would become more familiar. But that hasn’t happened at all. There is very little evidence of any work that goes into our attacking play. We are better defensively than last season, but on the ball we’ve gone backwards2 -
Correct, I was referring to clubs, not spells he spent with themForeverAddickted said:
He's been successful twice... No?eaststandmike said:
He’s been successful once and abysmal twice, this is his fourth attempt and it’s going down the abysmal route so his success rate will be 25%Callumcafc said:
Why is it optimistic to think a manager who’s been successful before can do it again?Bedsaddick said:
I certainly admire your optimism Callum but sadly I don’t think many share it .Callumcafc said:
I’m saying the style of play argument would disappear as soon as we win a few games and therefore it’s a weak argument against Jones compared to just being honest and saying you don’t like that we’re not winning.paulsturgess said:
Repeat a question from before.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
What point are you making here Callum? As I’m not clear. It feels like you are defending Jones, his style, and his outcomes merely for the sake of being contrary.Do you believe in his tactics/ philosophy and do you think he will succeed?People see negatives when we don’t get results and they see the positives when we do get results. Ben Garner set up with the opposite style to NJ (surely this is the type of manager we want if we want attacking football) and still got panned by fans - because we stopped winning games.There is no right or wrong way to play football and only results tend to matter.
And yes, I do believe that the way Jones intends to have our team play can get results and can be successful. It’s not been so successful lately (over a period of less than two months) but I’m willing to give him more time.
Once when he got Luton into the Championship, then he went away, came back and kept them in the Championship
Luton: Success
Stoke: Failure
Southampton: Failure
Charlton: ?0 -
It’s not me hoping for anything though.Croydon said:
Is being hopeful of a positive outcome not literally the definition of being optimistic?Callumcafc said:
Why is it optimistic to think a manager who’s been successful before can do it again?Bedsaddick said:
I certainly admire your optimism Callum but sadly I don’t think many share it .Callumcafc said:
I’m saying the style of play argument would disappear as soon as we win a few games and therefore it’s a weak argument against Jones compared to just being honest and saying you don’t like that we’re not winning.paulsturgess said:
Repeat a question from before.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
What point are you making here Callum? As I’m not clear. It feels like you are defending Jones, his style, and his outcomes merely for the sake of being contrary.Do you believe in his tactics/ philosophy and do you think he will succeed?People see negatives when we don’t get results and they see the positives when we do get results. Ben Garner set up with the opposite style to NJ (surely this is the type of manager we want if we want attacking football) and still got panned by fans - because we stopped winning games.There is no right or wrong way to play football and only results tend to matter.
And yes, I do believe that the way Jones intends to have our team play can get results and can be successful. It’s not been so successful lately (over a period of less than two months) but I’m willing to give him more time.All I’m saying is it’s possible that he is successful if we give it more time while also acknowledging it might not happen, but we need more time to make that determination.
I’d say there’s far stronger pessimism in the position that we’re past the point of no return already.2 -
He kept us up last season. League Two football was a real possibility and would have been disasterous.eaststandmike said:
Correct, I was referring to clubs, not spells he spent with themForeverAddickted said:
He's been successful twice... No?eaststandmike said:
He’s been successful once and abysmal twice, this is his fourth attempt and it’s going down the abysmal route so his success rate will be 25%Callumcafc said:
Why is it optimistic to think a manager who’s been successful before can do it again?Bedsaddick said:
I certainly admire your optimism Callum but sadly I don’t think many share it .Callumcafc said:
I’m saying the style of play argument would disappear as soon as we win a few games and therefore it’s a weak argument against Jones compared to just being honest and saying you don’t like that we’re not winning.paulsturgess said:
Repeat a question from before.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
What point are you making here Callum? As I’m not clear. It feels like you are defending Jones, his style, and his outcomes merely for the sake of being contrary.Do you believe in his tactics/ philosophy and do you think he will succeed?People see negatives when we don’t get results and they see the positives when we do get results. Ben Garner set up with the opposite style to NJ (surely this is the type of manager we want if we want attacking football) and still got panned by fans - because we stopped winning games.There is no right or wrong way to play football and only results tend to matter.
And yes, I do believe that the way Jones intends to have our team play can get results and can be successful. It’s not been so successful lately (over a period of less than two months) but I’m willing to give him more time.
Once when he got Luton into the Championship, then he went away, came back and kept them in the Championship
Luton: Success
Stoke: Failure
Southampton: Failure
Charlton: ?5 - Sponsored links:
-
It's possible that things can improve yes. A d certainly I see the point that just blindly assuming that we're already doomed is a pessimistic position.Callumcafc said:
It’s not me hoping for anything though.Croydon said:
Is being hopeful of a positive outcome not literally the definition of being optimistic?Callumcafc said:
Why is it optimistic to think a manager who’s been successful before can do it again?Bedsaddick said:
I certainly admire your optimism Callum but sadly I don’t think many share it .Callumcafc said:
I’m saying the style of play argument would disappear as soon as we win a few games and therefore it’s a weak argument against Jones compared to just being honest and saying you don’t like that we’re not winning.paulsturgess said:
Repeat a question from before.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
What point are you making here Callum? As I’m not clear. It feels like you are defending Jones, his style, and his outcomes merely for the sake of being contrary.Do you believe in his tactics/ philosophy and do you think he will succeed?People see negatives when we don’t get results and they see the positives when we do get results. Ben Garner set up with the opposite style to NJ (surely this is the type of manager we want if we want attacking football) and still got panned by fans - because we stopped winning games.There is no right or wrong way to play football and only results tend to matter.
And yes, I do believe that the way Jones intends to have our team play can get results and can be successful. It’s not been so successful lately (over a period of less than two months) but I’m willing to give him more time.All I’m saying is it’s possible that he is successful if we give it more time while also acknowledging it might not happen, but we need more time to make that determination.
I’d say there’s far stronger pessimism in the position that we’re past the point of no return already.
But I think it's more realism to acknowledge that we have played in one specific way for several months to no great success. There is no reason to believe that success will just start happening unless there is some sort of a change. We haven't been conceding particularly "unlucky" goals. We haven't been creating lots of clear chances but struggled to put them away. We are playing a brand of football that puts an inordinate significance on the first goal scored (by either side) only to concede said goal more than we score it.
So questioning what that change actually will be, or should be, is entirely valid as Jones does not show by word or action any apparent belief that a change is needed, but instead seems to hope that doing the same thing that hasn't worked will just somehow start working.1 -
But we are not winning, despite all your statistical mental gymnastics trying to persuade us that it’s all looking good.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
You’re only fooling yourself I’m afraid.9 -
The right way is two centre forwards, a big one and a little one, everything else is wrong and deep down all you progressionist plonkers know I’m right…Callumcafc said:
I’m saying the style of play argument would disappear as soon as we win a few games and therefore it’s a weak argument against Jones compared to just being honest and saying you don’t like that we’re not winning.paulsturgess said:
Repeat a question from before.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
What point are you making here Callum? As I’m not clear. It feels like you are defending Jones, his style, and his outcomes merely for the sake of being contrary.Do you believe in his tactics/ philosophy and do you think he will succeed?People see negatives when we don’t get results and they see the positives when we do get results. Ben Garner set up with the opposite style to NJ (surely this is the type of manager we want if we want attacking football) and still got panned by fans - because we stopped winning games.There is no right or wrong way to play football and only results tend to matter.
And yes, I do believe that the way Jones intends to have our team play can get results and can be successful. It’s not been so successful lately (over a period of less than two months) but I’m willing to give him more time.1 -
Yes, but that’s a bit easier to say than when you have to leave work early, drive through traffic for an hour, to sit in a freezing cold stadium, on a Tuesday night, watching Gillesphey et al hoofing the ball to bleeding no one all game every game.Callumcafc said:
I’m saying the style of play argument would disappear as soon as we win a few games and therefore it’s a weak argument against Jones compared to just being honest and saying you don’t like that we’re not winning.paulsturgess said:
Repeat a question from before.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
What point are you making here Callum? As I’m not clear. It feels like you are defending Jones, his style, and his outcomes merely for the sake of being contrary.Do you believe in his tactics/ philosophy and do you think he will succeed?People see negatives when we don’t get results and they see the positives when we do get results. Ben Garner set up with the opposite style to NJ (surely this is the type of manager we want if we want attacking football) and still got panned by fans - because we stopped winning games.There is no right or wrong way to play football and only results tend to matter.
And yes, I do believe that the way Jones intends to have our team play can get results and can be successful. It’s not been so successful lately (over a period of less than two months) but I’m willing to give him more time.5 -
I thought you watched the games online?Callumcafc said:
Why is it optimistic to think a manager who’s been successful before can do it again?Bedsaddick said:
I certainly admire your optimism Callum but sadly I don’t think many share it .Callumcafc said:
I’m saying the style of play argument would disappear as soon as we win a few games and therefore it’s a weak argument against Jones compared to just being honest and saying you don’t like that we’re not winning.paulsturgess said:
Repeat a question from before.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
What point are you making here Callum? As I’m not clear. It feels like you are defending Jones, his style, and his outcomes merely for the sake of being contrary.Do you believe in his tactics/ philosophy and do you think he will succeed?People see negatives when we don’t get results and they see the positives when we do get results. Ben Garner set up with the opposite style to NJ (surely this is the type of manager we want if we want attacking football) and still got panned by fans - because we stopped winning games.There is no right or wrong way to play football and only results tend to matter.
And yes, I do believe that the way Jones intends to have our team play can get results and can be successful. It’s not been so successful lately (over a period of less than two months) but I’m willing to give him more time.0 -
BoringCovered End said:
I thought you watched the games online?Callumcafc said:
Why is it optimistic to think a manager who’s been successful before can do it again?Bedsaddick said:
I certainly admire your optimism Callum but sadly I don’t think many share it .Callumcafc said:
I’m saying the style of play argument would disappear as soon as we win a few games and therefore it’s a weak argument against Jones compared to just being honest and saying you don’t like that we’re not winning.paulsturgess said:
Repeat a question from before.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
What point are you making here Callum? As I’m not clear. It feels like you are defending Jones, his style, and his outcomes merely for the sake of being contrary.Do you believe in his tactics/ philosophy and do you think he will succeed?People see negatives when we don’t get results and they see the positives when we do get results. Ben Garner set up with the opposite style to NJ (surely this is the type of manager we want if we want attacking football) and still got panned by fans - because we stopped winning games.There is no right or wrong way to play football and only results tend to matter.
And yes, I do believe that the way Jones intends to have our team play can get results and can be successful. It’s not been so successful lately (over a period of less than two months) but I’m willing to give him more time.0 -
LargeAddick said:
He kept us up last season. League Two football was a real possibility and would have been disasterous.eaststandmike said:
Correct, I was referring to clubs, not spells he spent with themForeverAddickted said:
He's been successful twice... No?eaststandmike said:
He’s been successful once and abysmal twice, this is his fourth attempt and it’s going down the abysmal route so his success rate will be 25%Callumcafc said:
Why is it optimistic to think a manager who’s been successful before can do it again?Bedsaddick said:
I certainly admire your optimism Callum but sadly I don’t think many share it .Callumcafc said:
I’m saying the style of play argument would disappear as soon as we win a few games and therefore it’s a weak argument against Jones compared to just being honest and saying you don’t like that we’re not winning.paulsturgess said:
Repeat a question from before.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
What point are you making here Callum? As I’m not clear. It feels like you are defending Jones, his style, and his outcomes merely for the sake of being contrary.Do you believe in his tactics/ philosophy and do you think he will succeed?People see negatives when we don’t get results and they see the positives when we do get results. Ben Garner set up with the opposite style to NJ (surely this is the type of manager we want if we want attacking football) and still got panned by fans - because we stopped winning games.There is no right or wrong way to play football and only results tend to matter.
And yes, I do believe that the way Jones intends to have our team play can get results and can be successful. It’s not been so successful lately (over a period of less than two months) but I’m willing to give him more time.
Once when he got Luton into the Championship, then he went away, came back and kept them in the Championship
Luton: Success
Stoke: Failure
Southampton: Failure
Charlton: ?
Just like so many managerial changes in recent years, he came in and we got a bounce just as we got players back from an injury crisis.
I'm the last 3 seasons we have mainly collected points when Chuks is about. I bet if someone could be bothered to do a table it would be quite a stark correlation.
Last season, NJ joined and lost his first game. In his second Chuks was finally back from injury and we started picking up points which we continued for the rest of the season. Then we picked up points at the start of this season until he got injured.... When we went back to our relegation form.
It really is crazy how reliant this club has become on the most fragile player being fit.6 -
That’s how I’ve seen most of the games as well, really fucking boring shitCallumcafc said:
BoringCovered End said:
I thought you watched the games online?Callumcafc said:
Why is it optimistic to think a manager who’s been successful before can do it again?Bedsaddick said:
I certainly admire your optimism Callum but sadly I don’t think many share it .Callumcafc said:
I’m saying the style of play argument would disappear as soon as we win a few games and therefore it’s a weak argument against Jones compared to just being honest and saying you don’t like that we’re not winning.paulsturgess said:
Repeat a question from before.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
What point are you making here Callum? As I’m not clear. It feels like you are defending Jones, his style, and his outcomes merely for the sake of being contrary.Do you believe in his tactics/ philosophy and do you think he will succeed?People see negatives when we don’t get results and they see the positives when we do get results. Ben Garner set up with the opposite style to NJ (surely this is the type of manager we want if we want attacking football) and still got panned by fans - because we stopped winning games.There is no right or wrong way to play football and only results tend to matter.
And yes, I do believe that the way Jones intends to have our team play can get results and can be successful. It’s not been so successful lately (over a period of less than two months) but I’m willing to give him more time.7 -
1. I absolutely resent the accusation that I'm not being honest. I'm telling things how they are for me. I think they are the same for many for others too. I may be wrong about what others think, but there's no way on earth I'm not being honest; what I tell you about how I feel about this is exactly how it is.Callumcafc said:
I’m saying the style of play argument would disappear as soon as we win a few games and therefore it’s a weak argument against Jones compared to just being honest and saying you don’t like that we’re not winning.paulsturgess said:
Repeat a question from before.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
What point are you making here Callum? As I’m not clear. It feels like you are defending Jones, his style, and his outcomes merely for the sake of being contrary.Do you believe in his tactics/ philosophy and do you think he will succeed?People see negatives when we don’t get results and they see the positives when we do get results. Ben Garner set up with the opposite style to NJ (surely this is the type of manager we want if we want attacking football) and still got panned by fans - because we stopped winning games.There is no right or wrong way to play football and only results tend to matter.
And yes, I do believe that the way Jones intends to have our team play can get results and can be successful. It’s not been so successful lately (over a period of less than two months) but I’m willing to give him more time.
2. You're right about us losing, I don't like it when we're not winning.
3. You're completely wrong about style of play. I hate this turgid boring football and I hate it regardless of whether we were winning or losing. Football is the beautiful game, I want to see its beauty. I do not wan't to spend my time being bored for ninety minutes and then jump for joy because we sneak a winner at the end of it. If it's all about results, then there's no point in watching because I can read the result afterwards and find out how many points we got. I go to football to be entertained. This side bores the crap out of me.18 -
There is a huge point you are missing here when trying to justify Jones and the style, comparing it to other managers eg Garner etc etcCallumcafc said:
I’m saying the style of play argument would disappear as soon as we win a few games and therefore it’s a weak argument against Jones compared to just being honest and saying you don’t like that we’re not winning.paulsturgess said:
Repeat a question from before.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
What point are you making here Callum? As I’m not clear. It feels like you are defending Jones, his style, and his outcomes merely for the sake of being contrary.Do you believe in his tactics/ philosophy and do you think he will succeed?People see negatives when we don’t get results and they see the positives when we do get results. Ben Garner set up with the opposite style to NJ (surely this is the type of manager we want if we want attacking football) and still got panned by fans - because we stopped winning games.There is no right or wrong way to play football and only results tend to matter.
And yes, I do believe that the way Jones intends to have our team play can get results and can be successful. It’s not been so successful lately (over a period of less than two months) but I’m willing to give him more time.
Ignore all the other bum flufferies - the fundamental point is that WE ARE NOT EVEN TRYING TO WIN GAMES!!! Every successful team we have ever had, the overwhelming majority of successful teams at any level in any season in history - try to win most of their football matches. You can debate the aesthetics but the absolutely fundamental point here is that Nathan Jones teams are not trying to win football matches; his strategy is to try not to get beaten and HOPE.So people hate the style of play but more than anything else they hate it because he’s not even striving for the same goal as us; at least Garner was trying to set teams up to go out and win football matches. Jones is setting his teams up to run around aimlessly for 90 minutes then draw a high card against the opposing manager when the 4th official’s board appears!Call me self entitled but in the 3rd tier against Shrewsbury, Stockport and sodding Stevenage I believe that it is reasonable to expect a management and a board who are determined to go out and WIN the football match.7 - Sponsored links:
-
He was successful at Luton I agree but he has failed miserably at his next two club's and he's not exactly pulling up trees at Charlton.Callumcafc said:
Why is it optimistic to think a manager who’s been successful before can do it again?Bedsaddick said:
I certainly admire your optimism Callum but sadly I don’t think many share it .Callumcafc said:
I’m saying the style of play argument would disappear as soon as we win a few games and therefore it’s a weak argument against Jones compared to just being honest and saying you don’t like that we’re not winning.paulsturgess said:
Repeat a question from before.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
What point are you making here Callum? As I’m not clear. It feels like you are defending Jones, his style, and his outcomes merely for the sake of being contrary.Do you believe in his tactics/ philosophy and do you think he will succeed?People see negatives when we don’t get results and they see the positives when we do get results. Ben Garner set up with the opposite style to NJ (surely this is the type of manager we want if we want attacking football) and still got panned by fans - because we stopped winning games.There is no right or wrong way to play football and only results tend to matter.
And yes, I do believe that the way Jones intends to have our team play can get results and can be successful. It’s not been so successful lately (over a period of less than two months) but I’m willing to give him more time.
Every Charlton fan wants him to succeed but as things stand the jury is well and truly out.5 -
For me, the objection to the ‘style’ of football that Jones has adopted is not primarily about the aesthetics of the beautiful game, although we all hope to turn up and see a bit of decent football. It’s principally because no team playing this type of ‘hit and hope’ percentage football is going to be successful over the course of a 46-game season. All successful teams can exert a measure of control over games; our inability to do so explains the results and level of performance this season.
It’s a fantasy to say that we’d all be happy if we were winning playing like this because it is never going to happen - and I’m no football purist. Honest.
5 -
You genuinely think about 30 professional football players, 5 coaches and a manager aren’t trying to win games? They’re taking a different approach to you or I but I don’t think you can say they aren’t attempting to winpaulsturgess said:
There is a huge point you are missing here when trying to justify Jones and the style, comparing it to other managers eg Garner etc etcCallumcafc said:
I’m saying the style of play argument would disappear as soon as we win a few games and therefore it’s a weak argument against Jones compared to just being honest and saying you don’t like that we’re not winning.paulsturgess said:
Repeat a question from before.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
What point are you making here Callum? As I’m not clear. It feels like you are defending Jones, his style, and his outcomes merely for the sake of being contrary.Do you believe in his tactics/ philosophy and do you think he will succeed?People see negatives when we don’t get results and they see the positives when we do get results. Ben Garner set up with the opposite style to NJ (surely this is the type of manager we want if we want attacking football) and still got panned by fans - because we stopped winning games.There is no right or wrong way to play football and only results tend to matter.
And yes, I do believe that the way Jones intends to have our team play can get results and can be successful. It’s not been so successful lately (over a period of less than two months) but I’m willing to give him more time.
Ignore all the other bum flufferies - the fundamental point is that WE ARE NOT EVEN TRYING TO WIN GAMES!!! Every successful team we have ever had, the overwhelming majority of successful teams at any level in any season in history - try to win most of their football matches. You can debate the aesthetics but the absolutely fundamental point here is that Nathan Jones teams are not trying to win football matches; his strategy is to try not to get beaten and HOPE.So people hate the style of play but more than anything else they hate it because he’s not even striving for the same goal as us; at least Garner was trying to set teams up to go out and win football matches. Jones is setting his teams up to run around aimlessly for 90 minutes then draw a high card against the opposing manager when the 4th official’s board appears!Call me self entitled but in the 3rd tier against Shrewsbury, Stockport and sodding Stevenage I believe that it is reasonable to expect a management and a board who are determined to go out and WIN the football match.2 -
There is a real imperative to give a manager time, which I am fully behind.
But I really don't know how much more of this half baked, frustrating, joyless shit I can stand1 -
Luton fans want Edwards out, reckon they'd go for Jones part 3?0 -
why don't we just swap managers0
-
The style of play argument against Jones for me is an odd one as we all know that if we were winning games most wouldnt complain if the football wasnt particularly attractive, after all I remember the football we played under Curbs with Bartlett (in the prem, pre Bent) up top wasnt too pretty either but most didnt care because of what we were achieving.
All that said is the results arent going our way and thats going to put extra emphasis on our style of play, winning ugly is acceptable but losing ugly isnt. For the style of play to be a defence for NJ we do actually have to win games. The next month is vital for him we need to be around play-offs come Jan to get the calibre of players we need in and get the board to part with cash. If we are going to be mid-table with very little prospect of play-offs we may as well let Jones see out the season with what he has (as long as we arent facing relegation) then decide in the summer whether we back jones with more resources or those resources should go to a new manager.
Also one thing i do see here i Jones getting stick for his "failure" at Southampton, in his defence i think Ancelotti, Ferguson, Clough et al would have struggled with that team. they were truly one of the worst in Prem history.2 -
fenaddick said:
You genuinely think about 30 professional football players, 5 coaches and a manager aren’t trying to win games? They’re taking a different approach to you or I but I don’t think you can say they aren’t attempting to winpaulsturgess said:
There is a huge point you are missing here when trying to justify Jones and the style, comparing it to other managers eg Garner etc etcCallumcafc said:
I’m saying the style of play argument would disappear as soon as we win a few games and therefore it’s a weak argument against Jones compared to just being honest and saying you don’t like that we’re not winning.paulsturgess said:
Repeat a question from before.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
What point are you making here Callum? As I’m not clear. It feels like you are defending Jones, his style, and his outcomes merely for the sake of being contrary.Do you believe in his tactics/ philosophy and do you think he will succeed?People see negatives when we don’t get results and they see the positives when we do get results. Ben Garner set up with the opposite style to NJ (surely this is the type of manager we want if we want attacking football) and still got panned by fans - because we stopped winning games.There is no right or wrong way to play football and only results tend to matter.
And yes, I do believe that the way Jones intends to have our team play can get results and can be successful. It’s not been so successful lately (over a period of less than two months) but I’m willing to give him more time.
Ignore all the other bum flufferies - the fundamental point is that WE ARE NOT EVEN TRYING TO WIN GAMES!!! Every successful team we have ever had, the overwhelming majority of successful teams at any level in any season in history - try to win most of their football matches. You can debate the aesthetics but the absolutely fundamental point here is that Nathan Jones teams are not trying to win football matches; his strategy is to try not to get beaten and HOPE.So people hate the style of play but more than anything else they hate it because he’s not even striving for the same goal as us; at least Garner was trying to set teams up to go out and win football matches. Jones is setting his teams up to run around aimlessly for 90 minutes then draw a high card against the opposing manager when the 4th official’s board appears!Call me self entitled but in the 3rd tier against Shrewsbury, Stockport and sodding Stevenage I believe that it is reasonable to expect a management and a board who are determined to go out and WIN the football match.
Possibly a bit of an exaggeration to say Jones doesn’t try to win, but I’d put it like this: he sets us up as the underdog, in every game, regardless of opposition. Completely focussed on mitigating the other side.When we actually are the underdog, it sort of works. When we aren’t - the whole thing falls flat.You hear it in his talking points time and again. He never dwells on our ability to create chances or craft something it’s - disrupt, chase, be physical, don’t concede, “front footed”… and in distant last place, maybe nick a goal.
Yes it’s a bit big time Charlie of me - but sod it - I expect us to show up at half the tinpot teams in this league as the bigger fish, a little bit feared, the favourites with the large budget… not donning tin hats against Burton Albion.19 -
Were we setup as the Underdog vs Burton with tin hats on? - The majority of the game we were camped in their half werent we, whilst we ended up with over 20-attempts on goal.
I mean there are plenty of examples to use where that has been the case, so find that focusing on the last game the most strange.1 -
Well we did win Tuesday, but it hasn't stopped the style of play argument.Radostanradical said:The style of play argument against Jones for me is an odd one as we all know that if we were winning games most wouldnt complain if the football wasnt particularly attractive, after all I remember the football we played under Curbs with Bartlett (in the prem, pre Bent) up top wasnt too pretty either but most didnt care because of what we were achieving.
All that said is the results arent going our way and thats going to put extra emphasis on our style of play, winning ugly is acceptable but losing ugly isnt. For the style of play to be a defence for NJ we do actually have to win games. The next month is vital for him we need to be around play-offs come Jan to get the calibre of players we need in and get the board to part with cash. If we are going to be mid-table with very little prospect of play-offs we may as well let Jones see out the season with what he has (as long as we arent facing relegation) then decide in the summer whether we back jones with more resources or those resources should go to a new manager.
Also one thing i do see here i Jones getting stick for his "failure" at Southampton, in his defence i think Ancelotti, Ferguson, Clough et al would have struggled with that team. they were truly one of the worst in Prem history.
Why is it odd?
I would agree if we were consistently winning people would be more accepting of the style but I doubt it would be stop the criticism.
I don't accept your tenuous comparison with Curbs "Bartlett" era.
There is no comparison between this perennial third division shit and Curbs making us competitive in the Premier League with comparatively inferior players to other PL sides6
