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POST-MATCH THREAD: Lincoln City v Charlton Athletic: Saturday 7th December 2024: KO 12:30
Comments
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In 91/92 Gritt and Curbs built a team and system to make the most of Carlo too, 442 with plenty of width, so that there were crosses from wide positions. Minto and Walsh on the left, Pitcher and Lee on the right. Nelse doing the running, and when he joined during the season, Pardew ghosting into the box from midfield.PragueAddick said:Yesterday somebody on here wrote that Miles is "not a patch on his Dad". I am not calling that poster out, but it does remind us that history plays tricks on our memories, while at the same time providing valuable lessons if we care to look back carefully.
Carlo made his debut in the dark days at Selhurst as an 18 year old in the 87-88 period. Here are his stats for the Selhurst seasons:
87-88, 10 apps, 2 goals
88-89 29 apps, 2 goals
89/90 8 apps, 0 goals
Those are the facts of his first three seasons. 47 games, 4 goals.
And now here is what I recall from memory. Dogs' abuse in some quarters of the fanbase from his second season onwards. Precious little appreciation that Lennie was over-playing him because he had no better alternatives. Crooks was a spent force, Andy Jones flopped. But some wise old heads, like my old man, could see the potential. My Dad, unlike me, was quite tall and played as a defender, and he always said, as a defender you'd hate to play against someone like Carlo.
Carlo stayed with the club though as we moved to Upton Park, and the Curbs-Gritty team took over, patching together a team full of "good lads" such as Garry Nelson. It all started to click for Carlo; In the 91-92 season he scored 14 in 37. I loved him. By the time the 5th December 92 came round he was already a talisman. Yet still he had his detractors. In the Voice of the Valley the back page was always occupied by something called "Henry Irving's Fifth Column". And yes it was the same @Henry Irving. We didn't know each other then but he picked up on me somewhere comparing Carlo favourably to Matt Tees. "let me tell you, Dick" wrote Henry, in his stentorian tone "Carl Leaburn isn't fit to tie Matt Tees bootlaces". "Henry" and I have got on famously ever since🤣.
The Carl Leaburn the poster above was remembering was the one that played from 1991 to 95. He was POTY in 1994 - 7 years after his debut.
Still, it means that Miles has the huge advantage of having a Dad who not only played the game, but played for Charlton and got dogs' abuse for his efforts. Possibly, in some cases, from the same people !
Like I said, no dig at any one poster, and I'm no historian, but I hope it gives us some pause for thought.
I've no idea how we intend to score goals under NJ, as we have no obvious attacking system at all. For example on Tuesday we had 2 tall strikers up front, but no width to give them aerial crosses to attack. But then we don't have a classy midfield playmaker either.9 -
ThanksTalal said:
Jones has said he wanted another outfield option. Bit of a risk given AMB's injuries and not sure if Laqeretabua was really needed given REG was there.Fortune 82nd Minute said:Anyone said why we didn't have a reserve goalkeeper on the bench yesterday?0 -
Not football related, but post match we went into the city and up the hill. I have to say Lincoln is a fine place to visit - many excellent pubs, a fabulous pie restaurant https://www.hobbsons.co.uk/ as well as the cathedral and castle looking great under the lights. Place was heaving last night - good to see so many pubs full, and a pleasant atmosphere everywhere.
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Too many people ready to write off a young forward who likely still has a 15 year career at a higher level ahead of him.
Why are we so desperate to be miserable - even about the good things we have? Is it to prepare ourselves for the inevitable disappointment of losing him to a bigger club because “he wasn’t that good anyway”?
I can’t think of any other explanation…20 -
Proving a point to the owners that we need more players in January.Fortune 82nd Minute said:Anyone said why we didn't have a reserve goalkeeper on the bench yesterday?
There is no other reason to not put a keeper on the bench. You have 6 outfield players you can name so it's not because of options.
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Exactly my thoughts.golfaddick said:
Proving a point to the owners that we need more players in January.Fortune 82nd Minute said:Anyone said why we didn't have a reserve goalkeeper on the bench yesterday?
There is no other reason to not put a keeper on the bench. You have 6 outfield players you can name so it's not because of options.2 -
I think it’s mainly that people are just down on everything related to the club at the moment given the unfolding debacle this season is turning into.Callumcafc said:Too many people ready to write off a young forward who likely still has a 15 year career at a higher level ahead of him.
Why are we so desperate to be miserable - even about the good things we have? Is it to prepare ourselves for the inevitable disappointment of losing him to a bigger club because “he wasn’t that good anyway”?
I can’t think of any other explanation…2 -
It feels like it’s the way with academy players for some - if they’re not at Gomez/Lookman/Shelvey’s level they’re questioned as to whether they’re good enough.Callumcafc said:Too many people ready to write off a young forward who likely still has a 15 year career at a higher level ahead of him.
Why are we so desperate to be miserable - even about the good things we have? Is it to prepare ourselves for the inevitable disappointment of losing him to a bigger club because “he wasn’t that good anyway”?
I can’t think of any other explanation…
Konsa and Pope are great examples of why some just need time and the chance to play in a better team.
Solly, Grant and Aribo haven’t reached their level, but they weren’t immediate hits either.2 -
Be careful what we wish for. Hope Leaburn is not out the door in January.7
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Not many fans wanting him to leave.Weegie Addick said:Be careful what we wish for. Hope Leaburn is not out the door in January.3 - Sponsored links:
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Because those 15 years will be at a higher career maybe?Callumcafc said:Too many people ready to write off a young forward who likely still has a 15 year career at a higher level ahead of him.
Why are we so desperate to be miserable - even about the good things we have? Is it to prepare ourselves for the inevitable disappointment of losing him to a bigger club because “he wasn’t that good anyway”?
I can’t think of any other explanation…0 -
Scoham said:
It feels like it’s the way with academy players for some - if they’re not at Gomez/Lookman/Shelvey’s level they’re questioned as to whether they’re good enough.Callumcafc said:Too many people ready to write off a young forward who likely still has a 15 year career at a higher level ahead of him.
Why are we so desperate to be miserable - even about the good things we have? Is it to prepare ourselves for the inevitable disappointment of losing him to a bigger club because “he wasn’t that good anyway”?
I can’t think of any other explanation…
Konsa and Pope are great examples of why some just need time and the chance to play in a better team.
Solly, Grant and Aribo haven’t reached their level, but they weren’t immediate hits either.
You also cant blame people's expectations when you have ITK's and people at the club bigging up youth prospects as being the most sort after youngster in europe and how we're shooing away top German clubs for them. Some just need to see a 5 minute cameo from an academy kid and suddenly they're the next Gomez.
For what its worth in regards to Leaburn I'm neither writing him off nor branding him the Prems next all time greatest goalscorer, lets just have some fairer views in place, or at least, admit to your bias
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i have no bias. Leaburn is playing and looking like he is not interested. I do not know why.11
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In fairness Rich Cawley shared the news about the German club (pre-injury). Nothing suggesting they were a top club though, only that they were in the top flight.CL_Phantom said:Scoham said:
It feels like it’s the way with academy players for some - if they’re not at Gomez/Lookman/Shelvey’s level they’re questioned as to whether they’re good enough.Callumcafc said:Too many people ready to write off a young forward who likely still has a 15 year career at a higher level ahead of him.
Why are we so desperate to be miserable - even about the good things we have? Is it to prepare ourselves for the inevitable disappointment of losing him to a bigger club because “he wasn’t that good anyway”?
I can’t think of any other explanation…
Konsa and Pope are great examples of why some just need time and the chance to play in a better team.
Solly, Grant and Aribo haven’t reached their level, but they weren’t immediate hits either.
You also cant blame people's expectations when you have ITK's and people at the club bigging up youth prospects as being the most sort after youngster in europe and how we're shooing away top German clubs for them. Some just need to see a 5 minute cameo from an academy kid and suddenly they're the next Gomez.
For what its worth in regards to Leaburn I'm neither writing him off nor branding him the Prems next all time greatest goalscorer, lets just have some fairer views in place, or at least, admit to your bias
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/sport/chelsea-and-brentford-tracking-charlton-athletics-young-striker-miles-leaburn
Charlton’s new owners Global Football Partners rejected a bid in excess of £3million from a Bundesliga club in the summer and are under no pressure to sell Leaburn, who signed a three-year professional deal in July 2022.
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3m was low at the time, but right now we seem mad to have turned it down.
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Hearing grumbles from my "in" that some senior players aren't happy with current set up. Whether that means tactics or whatever I'm not sure but hardly surprising3
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Exactly this. Defensively whilst we could obviously be better, it is far from our main issue. We've conceded less than Wycombe who are top, and of the 11 sides above us we've conceded less than 6 of them.drawnablank said:The line we’ve had more clean sheets than last season isn’t ridiculous, it’s fact!! It’s the only positive we have so far this season.
If we could get some width, pace and creativity into the side, we could actually be half decent.0 -
It’s not ridiculous but it sounded like it was all he had and was desperately clinging onto itdrawnablank said:The line we’ve had more clean sheets than last season isn’t ridiculous, it’s fact!! It’s the only positive we have so far this season.1 -
Quite a lot to sort out but it can be done.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Exactly this. Defensively whilst we could obviously be better, it is far from our main issue. We've conceded less than Wycombe who are top, and of the 11 sides above us we've conceded less than 6 of them.drawnablank said:The line we’ve had more clean sheets than last season isn’t ridiculous, it’s fact!! It’s the only positive we have so far this season.
If we could get some width, pace and creativity into the side, we could actually be half decent.
More worrying, is how has a squad been assembled that is so unbalanced? We're talking about a big club at this level....not Burton Albion. Quite frankly, it's a piss-take for supporters who pay a lot of money to follow the club.1 -
The thing I couldn't belive was the lack of wingers. He left us with only TC as the only natural winger but even played him up top. He fully committed to 3-5-2 just seems totally nieveSimonsen said:
Quite a lot to sort out but it can be done.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Exactly this. Defensively whilst we could obviously be better, it is far from our main issue. We've conceded less than Wycombe who are top, and of the 11 sides above us we've conceded less than 6 of them.drawnablank said:The line we’ve had more clean sheets than last season isn’t ridiculous, it’s fact!! It’s the only positive we have so far this season.
If we could get some width, pace and creativity into the side, we could actually be half decent.
More worrying, is how has a squad been assembled that is so unbalanced? We're talking about a big club at this level....not Burton Albion. Quite frankly, it's a piss-take for supporters who pay a lot of money to follow the club.3 - Sponsored links:
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I would actually say there is also an element of inflating the potential of our young players/their ability because they are 'one of our own'msomerton said:
charlton fans always expect too much of our young players. When they are not playing like Messi they turn on them. Konsa is an example from recent history.AFKABartram said:
To balance that a little I also was there and stayed till the end to applaud them all, and from a player perspective didn't notice anything other than Leaburn and every other player coming over to clap the fans. There was a fair bit of abuse being thrown around (vast majority to Campbell) in the last 20 mins and end of the game.Bailey said:
Sporadic, I certainly didn't make things up in this post. I wasn't at the game and didn't see anything on the stream, so if somebody is there and claims this is what happened then I'm liable to think that something did occur.SporadicAddick said:
Make shit up and post it.Bailey said:
That's good enough for me. I don't have any insider knowledge but there is no smoke without fire and am wondering if a gentlemen's agreement has already been done for a move in January, it would explain the top heavy nature of out front seven, also Leaburn's performances and his reaction today.redbuttle said:
Yes mate. We were both there and he laughed at the criticism. Seems to think he's something special. But believe me. He's not.Bailey said:
Where you there mate, I didn't see that or hear the criticism, not saying you are wrong at all but shocked if Leaburn is responding like that.ButtleJR said:
It certainly seems they were. Leaburn was laughing at full time when being criticised. That's what I'm getting at. He thinks he's the bollocks but is proving to be a shit footballer who doesn't want to play for us.Bailey said:
I don't think anyone was trying to be smart Buttle, it was a genuine inquiry because to sounded like you were there and saw something off camera, so were you there and what did you pick upon ?ButtleJR said:
It means we are shit and Leaburn is also shit, Mr clever.ShootersHillGuru said:
What does this mean ?ButtleJR said:The amount of fans clapping that. I have no words. And leaburn was laughing at full time when crisitcised, he will never play in the premier league.If someone had shouted something critical / abusive to Leaburn when he come over to clap, I don’t blame him if he laughed / smiled. It’s a natural instant reaction to an unanticipated situation, but I didn’t notice anything.
Does sadden me if so though. Leaburn is a player we know has great potential but has missed a lot of football. You can either see a young 20yr old who is struggling to find his touch, sharpness and looks well short of in match confidence playing in a team that is tactically not a friend to strikers, or you can interpret it as arrogance and abuse.I know personally where I’m sat with it but each to their own.
We've had some great players come out the academy over the years, but some of those that have broken through in recent years simply have not nor will ever go on to play at a decent level. Chin, Ness, Henry, you could even argue the likes of Albie Morgan, he's not playing in a higher league than us, and for me, is very much a league one player at best.
Leaburn does have the potential to play a rung higher imo, not sure if he can go above that, but I personally feel that as a fanbase, we're a bit too blinkered when it comes to the actual ability of some of the younger players coming through10 -
One concept to consider is whether it is wise to throw money away on indifferent gravy train ‘experienced’ crap players persuaded in by loquacious agents, or try ‘one of our own’, who may indeed be equally crap but at least haven’t cost a load of money.1
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He’s a young lad coming back from a serious injury. I don’t think it’s that he isn’t interested, but I do have concerns around the fact that we have to give so many minutes to a guy that just turned 21 and should be getting slow reintroduction back to the first team because the squad is so poor that we basically need him.rememberbillybonds said:i have no bias. Leaburn is playing and looking like he is not interested. I do not know why.Let’s drop this narrative that he doesn’t care and isn’t interested, I don’t really think it’s fair and we’ve seen before that speculation soon becomes fact.14 -
That trend doesn't stop at young players...cabbles said:
I would actually say there is also an element of inflating the potential of our young players/their ability because they are 'one of our own'msomerton said:
charlton fans always expect too much of our young players. When they are not playing like Messi they turn on them. Konsa is an example from recent history.AFKABartram said:
To balance that a little I also was there and stayed till the end to applaud them all, and from a player perspective didn't notice anything other than Leaburn and every other player coming over to clap the fans. There was a fair bit of abuse being thrown around (vast majority to Campbell) in the last 20 mins and end of the game.Bailey said:
Sporadic, I certainly didn't make things up in this post. I wasn't at the game and didn't see anything on the stream, so if somebody is there and claims this is what happened then I'm liable to think that something did occur.SporadicAddick said:
Make shit up and post it.Bailey said:
That's good enough for me. I don't have any insider knowledge but there is no smoke without fire and am wondering if a gentlemen's agreement has already been done for a move in January, it would explain the top heavy nature of out front seven, also Leaburn's performances and his reaction today.redbuttle said:
Yes mate. We were both there and he laughed at the criticism. Seems to think he's something special. But believe me. He's not.Bailey said:
Where you there mate, I didn't see that or hear the criticism, not saying you are wrong at all but shocked if Leaburn is responding like that.ButtleJR said:
It certainly seems they were. Leaburn was laughing at full time when being criticised. That's what I'm getting at. He thinks he's the bollocks but is proving to be a shit footballer who doesn't want to play for us.Bailey said:
I don't think anyone was trying to be smart Buttle, it was a genuine inquiry because to sounded like you were there and saw something off camera, so were you there and what did you pick upon ?ButtleJR said:
It means we are shit and Leaburn is also shit, Mr clever.ShootersHillGuru said:
What does this mean ?ButtleJR said:The amount of fans clapping that. I have no words. And leaburn was laughing at full time when crisitcised, he will never play in the premier league.If someone had shouted something critical / abusive to Leaburn when he come over to clap, I don’t blame him if he laughed / smiled. It’s a natural instant reaction to an unanticipated situation, but I didn’t notice anything.
Does sadden me if so though. Leaburn is a player we know has great potential but has missed a lot of football. You can either see a young 20yr old who is struggling to find his touch, sharpness and looks well short of in match confidence playing in a team that is tactically not a friend to strikers, or you can interpret it as arrogance and abuse.I know personally where I’m sat with it but each to their own.
We've had some great players come out the academy over the years, but some of those that have broken through in recent years simply have not nor will ever go on to play at a decent level. Chin, Ness, Henry, you could even argue the likes of Albie Morgan, he's not playing in a higher league than us, and for me, is very much a league one player at best.
Leaburn does have the potential to play a rung higher imo, not sure if he can go above that, but I personally feel that as a fanbase, we're a bit too blinkered when it comes to the actual ability of some of the younger players coming through2 -
You keep using the word „bias“ . Why? Who is „biased“ for or against what here?CL_Phantom said:Scoham said:
It feels like it’s the way with academy players for some - if they’re not at Gomez/Lookman/Shelvey’s level they’re questioned as to whether they’re good enough.Callumcafc said:Too many people ready to write off a young forward who likely still has a 15 year career at a higher level ahead of him.
Why are we so desperate to be miserable - even about the good things we have? Is it to prepare ourselves for the inevitable disappointment of losing him to a bigger club because “he wasn’t that good anyway”?
I can’t think of any other explanation…
Konsa and Pope are great examples of why some just need time and the chance to play in a better team.
Solly, Grant and Aribo haven’t reached their level, but they weren’t immediate hits either.
You also cant blame people's expectations when you have ITK's and people at the club bigging up youth prospects as being the most sort after youngster in europe and how we're shooing away top German clubs for them. Some just need to see a 5 minute cameo from an academy kid and suddenly they're the next Gomez.
For what its worth in regards to Leaburn I'm neither writing him off nor branding him the Prems next all time greatest goalscorer, lets just have some fairer views in place, or at least, admit to your bias 0 -
Any names?agim said:Hearing grumbles from my "in" that some senior players aren't happy with current set up. Whether that means tactics or whatever I'm not sure but hardly surprising
Thought the players seem right behind Jones at the weekend and, if anything, have been bemused by fans anger recently, rightly or wrongly.
People seeing what they want to see?1 -
No namesCallumcafc said:
Any names?agim said:Hearing grumbles from my "in" that some senior players aren't happy with current set up. Whether that means tactics or whatever I'm not sure but hardly surprising
Thought the players seem right behind Jones at the weekend and, if anything, have been bemused by fans anger recently, rightly or wrongly.
People seeing what they want to see?
I work with a family member of one of the younger first team players and all that's been said its not a happy ship at the moment for various reasons.5 -
Lloyd Jones very clearly gave Nathan his backing after the game on Saturday. There was one fan shouting some abuse, Lloyd was very dismissive of it and then turned around and hugged NathanCallumcafc said:
Any names?agim said:Hearing grumbles from my "in" that some senior players aren't happy with current set up. Whether that means tactics or whatever I'm not sure but hardly surprising
Thought the players seem right behind Jones at the weekend and, if anything, have been bemused by fans anger recently, rightly or wrongly.
People seeing what they want to see?0 -
To some extent I hope it’s not all sunshine and roses down at Sparrows. The team is performing abysmally and is miles off our target for the season. Without becoming toxic I would hope that people are annoyed, frustrated and angry.agim said:
No namesCallumcafc said:
Any names?agim said:Hearing grumbles from my "in" that some senior players aren't happy with current set up. Whether that means tactics or whatever I'm not sure but hardly surprising
Thought the players seem right behind Jones at the weekend and, if anything, have been bemused by fans anger recently, rightly or wrongly.
People seeing what they want to see?
I work with a family member of one of the younger first team players and all that's been said its not a happy ship at the moment for various reasons.3 -
Not surprised. Nathan Jones isn't going to work for everyone but think about what a wreck Lloyd was under Appleton and Curtis and then how central he's become to our fortunes this season. He's a player reborn under Jones after looking like he never wanted to step onto a pitch again at one point last seasonNabySarr said:
Lloyd Jones very clearly gave Nathan his backing after the game on Saturday. There was one fan shouting some abuse, Lloyd was very dismissive of it and then turned around and hugged NathanCallumcafc said:
Any names?agim said:Hearing grumbles from my "in" that some senior players aren't happy with current set up. Whether that means tactics or whatever I'm not sure but hardly surprising
Thought the players seem right behind Jones at the weekend and, if anything, have been bemused by fans anger recently, rightly or wrongly.
People seeing what they want to see?8
