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England Cricket 2025
Comments
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297-8
Carse edges the first ball he gets from Boland to slip0 -
300 up for England
300-8
Bethell 140
Potts 00 -
Without the Smith runout and Stokes injury this could have gone the distance1
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Bethell has faced more balls in this innings (232) than Duckett has in his 10 innings in the series (221).11
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302-8 at stumps
England lead by 119
Bethell 142 (232)
Potts 0 (10)0 -
Really good to see Bethell play such a great knock.
Assume they'll beat that out of him at some stage and he'll get out for a quick 35 instead.3 -
Great innings from Bethell but probably all in vain as Australia will finish off our innings early tomorrow and then knock off the runs they need fairly easily.0
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If we don’t have spin as the first change tomorrow it’ll be a travesty.
Open with Tongue and hope for some movement. Give Potts a chance to redeem himself at the other end. And get Bethell bowling spinners by the sixth or seventh over.1 -
Hopefully not.North Lower Neil said:Really good to see Bethell play such a great knock.
Assume they'll beat that out of him at some stage and he'll get out for a quick 35 instead.
Bazball has run it's course and hopefully we have a different approach going forward.3 -
What Bethell needed today was someone to stay with him for the duration. Brook averages 39.70 in the series but that masks the issue with him. Concentration. Nine times out and seven of those 30 plus here. In fact, he's now been out 18 times in the Ashes but failed to convert any of the five 50s he has hit.
Those scores do not win Test matches and if he wants to fulfil his undoubted talent then he has to start doing just that. If he does start to do that, Bethell continues his progress (and he will have to play more red ball to do that because he has to learn how to play all types of bowling in all sorts of conditions) and Root remains being Root then by the time the next Ashes comes around we will have a quality middle order.
Just as I've finished typing this, Langer has made the same point about Brook in questioning what he was doing in stepping away to Starc. It really is time for him to bin trying to be Bazball's poster boy.5 -
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What a Test match, btw. Easily the best of the series so far and I reckon a fittingly exciting ending is in store. There's been some serious cricket from both sides for a change (as well as some nonsense)6
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That was one of the great classical innings by Jacob Bethell and at last one of the fast tracked youngster's talent has come to fruition.
To bat from the 1st over to the last over of the day was amazing for a 22 year old who played each ball on its merit while building an innings to finish 142 not out at stumps with a sublime performance.
A real positive in a test series where England have been 2nd best in 4 of the matches and probably only won the 4th test because some of the Aussie players tried to emulate David Boon after winning the Urn in 3 matches!
Smith was playing sensibly before the run out and Jacks went back to white ball mode when he just needed to bat like he did in his first Ashes knock.
England definitely should have set 200 for Australia to win but the usual fall of a couple of wickets in the same over stopped any hope of a 200+ target as it will be so difficult to add many more tomorrow with just Tongue to bat.
It's going to be 4-1 but at least England have found a Number 3 with real talent.
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Chris_from_Sidcup said:Great innings from Bethell but probably all in vain as Australia will finish off our innings early tomorrow and then knock off the runs they need fairly easily.
All in vain in this match but not for the confidence that Jacob will now have going forward and the Pope or Bethell discussion is now closed.1 -
Bethell also looked a serviceable second spinner yesterday. We just need a first one now2
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Yeah the Pope/Bethell debate is done. Pope will probably go back to averaging 50 in the County Champ. Would expect Duckett to still be opening against NZ , no idea who he'll be opening with.0
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hanging offenceCallumcafc said:Run out first ball after drinks. Smith gone at the non strikers end.
264-60 -
I think, with hindsight, it was more on Bethell than Smith. He called him through and took two steps down the track himself.oohaahmortimer said:
hanging offenceCallumcafc said:Run out first ball after drinks. Smith gone at the non strikers end.
264-6By the time he changed his mind and said no, Smith was already 2/3 of the way up the wicket and stranded.2 -
So other than Riot and Bethel, did anyone else make a ton this series for us? I think Stokes might have?1
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No, Brook, Crawley and Stokes all got a score of 80-odd but no other centuries.bolloxbolder said:So other than Riot and Bethel, did anyone else make a ton this series for us? I think Stokes might have?
Australia have had 5 so far, 3 for Head, Carey and Smith one each.0 -
Brook is very frustrating, but to be fair to him he's only made 42 fewer runs than Root in this series (358 @ 39.77 vs 400 @44.44).Addick Addict said:What Bethell needed today was someone to stay with him for the duration. Brook averages 39.70 in the series but that masks the issue with him. Concentration. Nine times out and seven of those 30 plus here. In fact, he's now been out 18 times in the Ashes but failed to convert any of the five 50s he has hit.
Those scores do not win Test matches and if he wants to fulfil his undoubted talent then he has to start doing just that. If he does start to do that, Bethell continues his progress (and he will have to play more red ball to do that because he has to learn how to play all types of bowling in all sorts of conditions) and Root remains being Root then by the time the next Ashes comes around we will have a quality middle order.
Just as I've finished typing this, Langer has made the same point about Brook in questioning what he was doing in stepping away to Starc. It really is time for him to bin trying to be Bazball's poster boy.
Root's made 2 brilliant tons, but failed to pass 50 in the other 8 innings. Indeed he's failed to pass 20 in 7 of them.
A massive contrast to 5 years ago, when the big story was Root failing to convert 50s into 100s. Now his 50 to 100 conversion rate is ludicrous!0 -
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Stokes has been worse than Duckett. He's averaged 18.40 in 10 innings made up of scores of 6, 2, 19, 50, 83, 5, 16, 2, 0 & 1.bolloxbolder said:So other than Riot and Bethel, did anyone else make a ton this series for us? I think Stokes might have?0 -
Definitely should be more of a query over Stokes's place - hasn't batted well, can't bowl all the time which disrupts the lineup, and after the initial 5fer he's only taken 10 wickets in 7 innings, and his been pretty poor as a captain - weird decisions, mixed messages.
But given there's no other decent captaincy choices I guess him sticking around is potentially the lesser of all evils.0 -
I think it is time for Stokes to retire. He has done really well for us. But his body doesn't hold up anymore.I think after this series it is time to evaluate and plan ahead. Both off and on the pitch.2
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/cd0yjkvxk43o
ECB to give Key and Baz the chance to stay. Absolutely bizarre1 -
And therein lies the problem. Root (400 runs at 44.44 in this series and overall from 37 innings in Australia averages 38.00) and Brook (358 runs at 39.77) are world class batters but their best has not been comparable to the best of the Aussies (apart from Bethell's one innings that is) - Head (600 runs at 66.66) and Smith (274 runs at 68.50) have out-performed them both. In fact, Carey, with 307 runs at 43.85 (plus 27 dismissals) has arguably done as well, if not better, than Root and Brook given he scored 178 runs in one Test which won him MOM.killerandflash said:
Brook is very frustrating, but to be fair to him he's only made 42 fewer runs than Root in this series (358 @ 39.77 vs 400 @44.44).Addick Addict said:What Bethell needed today was someone to stay with him for the duration. Brook averages 39.70 in the series but that masks the issue with him. Concentration. Nine times out and seven of those 30 plus here. In fact, he's now been out 18 times in the Ashes but failed to convert any of the five 50s he has hit.
Those scores do not win Test matches and if he wants to fulfil his undoubted talent then he has to start doing just that. If he does start to do that, Bethell continues his progress (and he will have to play more red ball to do that because he has to learn how to play all types of bowling in all sorts of conditions) and Root remains being Root then by the time the next Ashes comes around we will have a quality middle order.
Just as I've finished typing this, Langer has made the same point about Brook in questioning what he was doing in stepping away to Starc. It really is time for him to bin trying to be Bazball's poster boy.
Root's made 2 brilliant tons, but failed to pass 50 in the other 8 innings. Indeed he's failed to pass 20 in 7 of them.
A massive contrast to 5 years ago, when the big story was Root failing to convert 50s into 100s. Now his 50 to 100 conversion rate is ludicrous!
No batter for us has achieved that feat in Australia for 15 years. I appreciate that the wickets in the 2010/11 series were more batter friendly but six of ours were at or near the top of their game - averages for that series: Cook (127.66), Trott (50.39), Pietersen (60.00), Bell (65.80), Strauss (43.85), Bell (65.80) and Prior (50.40). For comparative purposes, of the Aussies, only Mike Hussey (63.33), Watson (48.33) and Haddin (45.00) got near those England players and the likes of Smith (31.80), Clarke (21.44), Katich (24.25) and Ponting (16.14) all had a poor series.
Root and Brook are both better than they have shown. Of the two, though, it is still more of a crime, for Brook to get to 30 on seven occasions and not go big at least two or three times. Coaches will call it that "don't get bored" attitude that someone like Cook had and Brook hasn't but he must learn to find it if he wants to become a great of the game. The talent is there but the mindset isn't and Bazball has only served to validate that attitude to batting. Bethell batted like a proper Test batsman today and look where that got him.
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It is bizarre but I see the logic in not just throwing away everything after a bad Aus tour, that doesn't work. Baz having the white ball gig probably saved him though. There's a lot they can do to change things but there's a lot that isn't in Baz's remit anywayMarcusH26 said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/cd0yjkvxk43o
ECB to give Key and Baz the chance to stay. Absolutely bizarre0 -
I think it's called "being pot committed", for now anyway, given what is coming up. They will have to change and be more professional about how they go about things. For a start, make the players play more county cricket (which is exactly what Cook has been saying regardless of the level) and also ensure that we prepare better for away tours and tournaments.MarcusH26 said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/cd0yjkvxk43o
ECB to give Key and Baz the chance to stay. Absolutely bizarre3 -
I totally agree that Brook has been guilty of lax shots and casualness, but to be fair to England's batsmen, the Aussie batsmen have faced far weaker bowling than them. Head is the most "Bazball" of the Aussie batsmen, but has been fed an awful lot of rubbish, allowing him to crash the ball to the boundary. If he had to open against Starc and Boland, his average would be way lower, and he would quickly have been moved back down to 5. If Crawley and Duckett had opened against Carse and Potts in the 1st innings here, they would have got off to a flyer too.Addick Addict said:
And therein lies the problem. Root (400 runs at 44.44 in this series and overall from 37 innings in Australia averages 38.00) and Brook (358 runs at 39.77) are world class batters but their best has not been comparable to the best of the Aussies (apart from Bethell's one innings that is) - Head (600 runs at 66.66) and Smith (274 runs at 68.50) have out-performed them both. In fact, Carey, with 307 runs at 43.85 (plus 27 dismissals) has arguably done as well, if not better, than Root and Brook given he scored 178 runs in one Test which won him MOM.killerandflash said:
Brook is very frustrating, but to be fair to him he's only made 42 fewer runs than Root in this series (358 @ 39.77 vs 400 @44.44).Addick Addict said:What Bethell needed today was someone to stay with him for the duration. Brook averages 39.70 in the series but that masks the issue with him. Concentration. Nine times out and seven of those 30 plus here. In fact, he's now been out 18 times in the Ashes but failed to convert any of the five 50s he has hit.
Those scores do not win Test matches and if he wants to fulfil his undoubted talent then he has to start doing just that. If he does start to do that, Bethell continues his progress (and he will have to play more red ball to do that because he has to learn how to play all types of bowling in all sorts of conditions) and Root remains being Root then by the time the next Ashes comes around we will have a quality middle order.
Just as I've finished typing this, Langer has made the same point about Brook in questioning what he was doing in stepping away to Starc. It really is time for him to bin trying to be Bazball's poster boy.
Root's made 2 brilliant tons, but failed to pass 50 in the other 8 innings. Indeed he's failed to pass 20 in 7 of them.
A massive contrast to 5 years ago, when the big story was Root failing to convert 50s into 100s. Now his 50 to 100 conversion rate is ludicrous!
No batter for us has achieved that feat in Australia for 15 years. I appreciate that the wickets in the 2010/11 series were more batter friendly but six of ours were at or near the top of their game - averages for that series: Cook (127.66), Trott (50.39), Pietersen (60.00), Bell (65.80), Strauss (43.85), Bell (65.80) and Prior (50.40). For comparative purposes, of the Aussies, only Mike Hussey (63.33), Watson (48.33) and Haddin (45.00) got near those England players and the likes of Smith (31.80), Clarke (21.44), Katich (24.25) and Ponting (16.14) all had a poor series.
Root and Brook are both better than they have shown. Of the two, though, it is still more of a crime, for Brook to get to 30 on seven occasions and not go big at least two or three times. Coaches will call it that "don't get bored" attitude that someone like Cook had and Brook hasn't but he must learn to find it if he wants to become a great of the game. The talent is there but the mindset isn't and Bazball has only served to validate that attitude to batting. Bethell batted like a proper Test batsman today and look where that got him.
In 2010/11, for once we had a stronger attack than Australia's, with Mitchell Johnson having a stinker. In 13/14 he was unplayable, while in 17/18 they had the legendary Starc, Cummins, Hazlewood, Lyon quartet together for the first time, with Boland joining them in the 21/22.
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With the T20 WC coming up, it would have caused all sorts of issues to dump Baz now. If we flop badly in that competition, I wonder if he will quit anyway?fenaddick said:
It is bizarre but I see the logic in not just throwing away everything after a bad Aus tour, that doesn't work. Baz having the white ball gig probably saved him though. There's a lot they can do to change things but there's a lot that isn't in Baz's remit anywayMarcusH26 said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/cd0yjkvxk43o
ECB to give Key and Baz the chance to stay. Absolutely bizarre2 -
And as Michael Vaughn was alluding to this morning. To win test matches you need individuals to make big 100+ scores.North Lower Neil said:
No, Brook, Crawley and Stokes all got a score of 80-odd but no other centuries.bolloxbolder said:So other than Riot and Bethel, did anyone else make a ton this series for us? I think Stokes might have?
Australia have had 5 so far, 3 for Head, Carey and Smith one each.
The three hundreds that we did make were made with sensible, calculated test cricket heads. Not constant slogs over long off.
It's a pretty simple conversation to have with McCullum.
To make big score,Baz ball really isn't working when it needs to.0
