I thought that was a game where Jones saying “that’s not us” was fair. Our defence has been our strength this season, we keep games tight even if we’re poor with the ball.
I imagine Rotherham haven’t consistently played with that aggression, energy and intensity this season, otherwise they’d be higher on the league. We couldn’t cope, usually we’re competitive and win at least a decent share of 50/50s. Makes me wonder if Evans used NJs quote about us being Championship quality to fire up his squad. Two wingers with pace up front was probably a factor too, not the usual combination our back 3/5 deal with.
I agree with Stigs points on the squad, other than I can understand why Godden doesn’t start. He’s a good poacher but adds little outside the box. He’s not quick and energetic, he’s nothing special in the air or at holding up the ball. A big part of our recent improvement was TC and Small adding width and pace on both sides. Leaburn’s on form, if you play Godden you have to move TC, which either means a formation change or playing him at wing back. It’s similar to the problem we had last season when CBT needed to play high and wide, we wanted three CMs but May needed a partner up front. What’s worse is that May and CBT are better players than Godden and TC.
I hope we make 2/3 good attacking signings to add pace, creativity and technical ability before the window closes, but I’m not expecting it. It’s clear we’re only able/willing to spend relatively small fees.
I think on reflection, we have to give credit to Rotherham. Fitness is not an issue in our game but we can be made to look a bit rushed. They roughed us up within the laws of the game and we couldn't stand up to it. Conceding the early goals meant we had to chase the game which does not suit us.
If I was Jones I wouldn't rush into changes. These players have been decent recently and Bolton are more of a footballing side so the challenge will be different. If you stop Small and TC, you have the earlier part of the season us and it is a reminder we need options out wide. I would say, this is more important than any other position at the moment.
We have no replacements for injuries to Small and TC, we can't change it up when it isn't working and we can't freshen it up when tiredness creeps in. Yes, the defence had a bad game, but they have been decent this season. I thought Docherty and Coventry were ok. Not spectacular but decent enough. They did swarm all over us though winning too much second ball and meaning if you played the ball in the general direction of a Rotherham player, they were going to get it whereas if you played it accurately to a Charlton one, they were going to be pressed into rushing things.
Rotherham looked decent and we looked bad. But I do feel and see signs that we are heading in a direction that we can eventually be happy with our team and club.(not based on today’s game tho! )
Is it the worst thing we don’t go up this season? This squad still needs more moulding and engineering to become a competitive championship side. If we did go up this season I would be full of dread all summer waiting to start a season of getting battered week in week out.
we are a team that should be better than league 1, but we have been mismanaged and uncared for by numerous ownerships for years now. We need to build a team, and that will take time. Consistency with the manager, SMT and ultimately the team will allow us to become a stable club that will give the fan base what they want.
Still lots of work to do and lots to change both on and off the field. Especially to get a club that has the potential we do to the place it should be.
Really good post. I think, taking today's performance out of the overall season performances, that we are still short in key areas. I might be alone in this assumption but I don't think Alex Mitchell is a player who would not be comfortable in the division above and Gillesphey has already proved that he did not cut the mustard in the championship, both players lack pace and positional sense is sometimes lacking. The wing backs have been a real plus this season and even if we did lose Small then we still have Edwards and Ramsay. The midfield is where we lack depth, Coventry, Anderson and Docherty could make the step up but there is no width and very little creation, Up front is a real question mark, plenty of players to chose from but only Leaburn and Godden have held down a place in the side and I'm not convinced in either Ahadme or Tyreece Campbell, they both work hard and Tyreece is a threat but both have no end product. On the plus side the kids could provide some of the answers but this is a young side overall and at the moment only Zach Mitchell and Daniel Kanu look able to handle the demands of the first team. Overall I think we are five players short and those players would have to be a step up on what's in the squad at the moment, and that will cost.
Are you saying Mitchell would be comfortable in the Championship? I think you’ve got a double negative in there @Bailey.
Thanks James, this club even screws my grammar up.
Think they said on the telly no one under 26 was in the team for Rotherham, at that point they mentioned it , they may have subbed a young un on later. That seems bizarre for a league one team .
Sounds about right for an Evans side , he usually has players that follow him everywhere so will have a bunch of late 20s early 30s players.
Two good finishes from our forwards, otherwise disjointed up front, absent in midfield and calamitous at the back. It's been said before, but I'll say it again, we really shouldn't have got rid of these two:
Is that Brian May?
No, it’s Alfie May.
Is that the joke? It’s supposed to be May and Dobson? Weird.
It’s Brian May and Anita Dobson.
Not a lookalike thing but they are a couple and, by means of a coincidence, their surnames match the very good players that left the club in the summer.
I found it very funny myself but each to their own
As for the ref, he was a let things go type. Which most fans like. Rotherham would be crap with a fussy ref. But most fans, including us, don't like those.
Two good finishes from our forwards, otherwise disjointed up front, absent in midfield and calamitous at the back. It's been said before, but I'll say it again, we really shouldn't have got rid of these two:
Is that Brian May?
No, it’s Alfie May.
Is that the joke? It’s supposed to be May and Dobson? Weird.
I've only just got this joke. Thanks all.
(Was worried having seen 40+ lols last night and not recognising the 2 celebs. Should go back and give Stig a lol now.)
We’ll have a clearer picture after Tuesday but our little run of form looks like it was a just that, a little run and not sustained. Pretty clear though that the squad as is, is way short of a promotion challenge and it’s looking like we’ll need yet another summer of significant player churn to remedy that. Will the owners stump up and will Jones have the nous to oversee it ? If the answer to either is not really then what’s the point. At present we’re treading water and arguably still going backwards.
Just watched brief highlights and we were just not committed enough for all their goals. Way short of promotion material and as for Championship it would be embarrassing.
I'm going to be charitable and say that I don't think they had been on the piss, although they certainly played like a bunch of bleary-eyed wastrels suffering from brew-flu. I think our problems are structural rather than bacchanalian. In the month since the First XI clicked, they've played six matches that have largely used the same personnel. We just do not have a good enough squad to chop and change. We do have a core of some decent players, but not nearly enough to be promotion contenders. Jones is able to pick a first team that on the day can compete with any in the league. What he can't do is keep picking the same team week after week and not expect any of them to start suffering from fatigue. Key issues for me are:
1. Goalkeeper. It was apparent last year the Maynard-Brewer was not up to being our first choice keeper. Early noises in the close-season suggested that this was recognised and that a new signing would be made. When it was, we got Mannion. The comment from Jones at the time was, "He’ll provide real good competition to those who we bring into that department". Despite Jones' suggestion that there'd be more options for this position, no-one else was signed. Maynard-Brewer and Mannion have different strengths and weaknesses but in terms of overall quality there's not much to pick between them. Both are both OK at this level, but neither appear to be promotion standard keepers. I would be quite happy for either of them to be our second choice keeper, but if we really want to progress, we really a better first choice.
2. Defence. For the most part, Jones and Mitchell have been our real strength at the back. This week though they've taken turns at being the missing link. I don't think it's a surprise, these guys aren't getting a rest. The cover for them just isn't good enough. The third man in that defence, Gillesphey is often, but not always, the weak link. I think we need a better third defender. Gillesphey is good enough to be the 4th man and to give the others a much needed rest, but we need someone else as a mainstay.
3. Midfield. Need someone with more energy. Can anyone think of a midfielder in this league who can run all day, tackle and pass?
4. Forwards. Really not sure why Godden isn't starting. Also, we have some good individual skills up front but it doesn't always click.
Godden does not start because he cannot play a pressing role, as TC does. He is a luxury striker, like Alfie May but not as good. An area we are worse off than last season.
Came to the game positive yesterday after enjoying the performance against Preston and ended up leaving 15 minutes before the end to get an earlier train. They were the better team by such a long way it was embarrassing. Someone on here mentioned before, we were out thought and out fought. That's exactly what happened. We were never in this match. We succeeded in making Rotherham look like a Premier League side in the second half with their one touch football. Saying that, Rotherham were very good. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they are in the play offs at the end of the season. They did their homework, doubling up on Small and Campbell every time they got the ball leaving them completely isolated. Once those outlets were shutdown we had nothing. They pressed hard across the pitch, exposing how uncomfortable we are on the ball to the point where they bullied us into playing long ball again. The fear is that there is a clear blueprint of how to play against us and all of the momentum of the Christmas period could erode as quickly as it was formed. I'm cautiously optimistic that Tuesday will be better and don't think we should abandon everything on just one result. Wouldn't bee surprised to see Anderson and Ahadme back in the line up though to add a bit of energy in.
I believe they are staying up until Tuesday. I’m not sure how beneficial it is when they’ve been up here since Tuesday for the PNE game. It’s a long time away from families with kids, training at a different place, living in a hotel.
Would have been better spending the hotel money on buying a creative midfielder
My thoughts are with those that spent some good hard earned dosh going to watch this shambles yesterday.
Just caught the highlights and cant believe how bad our defending was and there must be better keepers out there than AMB who in my view isnt up to it. I would worry if he was Ebbsfleets keeper.
Not sure why Leaburn is getting so much stick who else do we have up front that can score goals.
I think there is a big over reaction about this performance sometimes you just have to give credit to the opposition. They were really up for it and caught us cold, yes you could argue that we should have expected that and been ready but I think the players will learn from it and not make the same mistake again. I can’t believe that Rotherham perform like that every week if they did they would be far higher up the league than they are. The next 5 games are critical imo minimum of 12 points required
I'm going to be charitable and say that I don't think they had been on the piss, although they certainly played like a bunch of bleary-eyed wastrels suffering from brew-flu. I think our problems are structural rather than bacchanalian. In the month since the First XI clicked, they've played six matches that have largely used the same personnel. We just do not have a good enough squad to chop and change. We do have a core of some decent players, but not nearly enough to be promotion contenders. Jones is able to pick a first team that on the day can compete with any in the league. What he can't do is keep picking the same team week after week and not expect any of them to start suffering from fatigue. Key issues for me are:
1. Goalkeeper. It was apparent last year the Maynard-Brewer was not up to being our first choice keeper. Early noises in the close-season suggested that this was recognised and that a new signing would be made. When it was, we got Mannion. The comment from Jones at the time was, "He’ll provide real good competition to those who we bring into that department". Despite Jones' suggestion that there'd be more options for this position, no-one else was signed. Maynard-Brewer and Mannion have different strengths and weaknesses but in terms of overall quality there's not much to pick between them. Both are both OK at this level, but neither appear to be promotion standard keepers. I would be quite happy for either of them to be our second choice keeper, but if we really want to progress, we really a better first choice.
2. Defence. For the most part, Jones and Mitchell have been our real strength at the back. This week though they've taken turns at being the missing link. I don't think it's a surprise, these guys aren't getting a rest. The cover for them just isn't good enough. The third man in that defence, Gillesphey is often, but not always, the weak link. I think we need a better third defender. Gillesphey is good enough to be the 4th man and to give the others a much needed rest, but we need someone else as a mainstay.
3. Midfield. Need someone with more energy. Can anyone think of a midfielder in this league who can run all day, tackle and pass?
4. Forwards. Really not sure why Godden isn't starting. Also, we have some good individual skills up front but it doesn't always click.
Godden does not start because he cannot play a pressing role, as TC does. He is a luxury striker, like Alfie May but not as good. An area we are worse off than last season.
Thanks. Yes, that's the same explanation that Scoham gave, and I can see that.
It makes it all the more bizarre that we let May go in that case. Because his inability to play the pressing game has been use to explain away the fact that we signed away the league's best goalscorer.
Is one of the herd of elephants in the room the almost season long anonymity of captain Gary Docherty? Was he playing yesterday? Karoy Anderson contributed more positive stuff in his cameo yesterday than Docherty puts in over ten games. What is he for? Being powerful and combative? Pace? Vision and passing? Trickery on the ball? Getting the best out of others? Tackling? How much are we paying him? (This is before we get on to Ahadme, but at least with Ahadme you know he is on the pitch).
Is one of the herd of elephants in the room the almost season long anonymity of captain Gary Docherty? Was he playing yesterday? Karoy Anderson contributed more positive stuff in his cameo yesterday than Docherty puts in over ten games. What is he for? Being powerful and combative? Pace? Vision and passing? Trickery on the ball? Getting the best out of others? Tackling? How much are we paying him? (This is before we get on to Ahadme, but at least with Ahadme you know he is on the pitch).
I’m not trying to defend him because yes he along with Berry should be delivering far more than they have so far but he did get the assist yesterday for Leaburn. We all like you Seth love to see our youngsters progress into the 1st team but no way is Anderson ready to be starting regularly
NJ seems to have this rigid ideology where the system is king - which is fine, if there is a team of players each fully adapted to it.
But surely otherwise, you need to find a gameplan that best uses the abilities of individual players that you do have?
All season some players have struggled to fit into the system and have looked ineffective, yet they signed here with good reputations at previous clubs.
Disappointing but realistically we are not going to play well every week and/or win every game between now and the end of the season. What counts is how we bounce back to winning.
if collectively we had a bad day yesterday with players not feeling 100% then I can relate to that, there’s a lot of stuff going around and I woke up feeling really shit yesterday morning and thinking that one of those bugs had finally caught up with me and it wasn’t until late afternoon that I started to feel better (I’ve usually tended to get over things quite quickly and I always accept the offers of flu, Covid jabs etc).This morning I’m off to the gym when 24 hours ago I couldn’t even get out of bed until midday or do much else for a few hours afterwards. Those lads are probably equally feeling like they’ve got something to put right. The next game is where to start that. Chalk yesterday up to a bad day in the office and move on.
NJ seems to have this rigid ideology where the system is king - which is fine, if there is a team of players each fully adapted to it.
But surely otherwise, you need to find a gameplan that best uses the abilities of individual players that you do have?
All season some players have struggled to fit into the system and have looked ineffective, yet they signed here with good reputations at previous clubs.
He’s completely shifted away from his preferred system a couple of times this season though and yesterday we played about 4 different formations. He got outdone by Evans and the players got outfought yesterday but he wasn’t rigid yesterday at all
Two good finishes from our forwards, otherwise disjointed up front, absent in midfield and calamitous at the back. It's been said before, but I'll say it again, we really shouldn't have got rid of these two:
Is that Brian May?
No, it’s Alfie May.
Is that the joke? It’s supposed to be May and Dobson? Weird.
Is one of the herd of elephants in the room the almost season long anonymity of captain Gary Docherty? Was he playing yesterday? Karoy Anderson contributed more positive stuff in his cameo yesterday than Docherty puts in over ten games. What is he for? Being powerful and combative? Pace? Vision and passing? Trickery on the ball? Getting the best out of others? Tackling? How much are we paying him? (This is before we get on to Ahadme, but at least with Ahadme you know he is on the pitch).
I’m not trying to defend him because yes he along with Berry should be delivering far more than they have so far but he did get the assist yesterday for Leaburn. We all like you Seth love to see our youngsters progress into the 1st team but no way is Anderson ready to be starting regularly
I hear you, but seriously Docherty was a major signing, for me he has been a major disappointment despite the odd flash in the pan. Dobson wasn’t one of our own, but contributed far more than Docherty does. Anderson may not be ready (open to debate) but I would play him ahead of Docherty if only because he is not a study in anonymity.
… random thought entered my head. If Man City get relegated this year and end up in the championship, is that as good as saying that it makes it one team harder to stay out of the championship relegation zone. Might it be harder and more expensive to stay up next year (if we went up) . Might it be better from a financial perspective to stay in league one another year ? I don’t really know what I am talking about and am probably clutching at straws. Any ridicule deserved.
NJ seems to have this rigid ideology where the system is king - which is fine, if there is a team of players each fully adapted to it.
But surely otherwise, you need to find a gameplan that best uses the abilities of individual players that you do have?
All season some players have struggled to fit into the system and have looked ineffective, yet they signed here with good reputations at previous clubs.
He’s completely shifted away from his preferred system a couple of times this season though and yesterday we played about 4 different formations. He got outdone by Evans and the players got outfought yesterday but he wasn’t rigid yesterday at all
In desperation though and our players were still chasing shadows. And really, despite the tinkering it's still the same core system.
But my point was there are several players in the squad who cannot seem to replicate their form at their previous clubs. And maybe constraining Leaburn and TC also?
Just seen the brief highlights of the goals, absolute shocking defending and just shows how slow we are reacting when attacked, just simply not good enough and these players are getting paid to perform!
Some of these players are just very poor at reading the game, some of these league 1 teams must really look forward to playing us!!!
They all need a massive kick in the never regions!
Jesus, is Evans the footballing Einstein, Newton and Sun Tsu rolled into one?
What does our defence depend on? Jones settling the other slightly dodgier defenders. How do you combat that? Unsettle Jones you say, you really are the messiah, you have earned another pie.
Comments
I imagine Rotherham haven’t consistently played with that aggression, energy and intensity this season, otherwise they’d be higher on the league. We couldn’t cope, usually we’re competitive and win at least a decent share of 50/50s. Makes me wonder if Evans used NJs quote about us being Championship quality to fire up his squad. Two wingers with pace up front was probably a factor too, not the usual combination our back 3/5 deal with.
I agree with Stigs points on the squad, other than I can understand why Godden doesn’t start. He’s a good poacher but adds little outside the box. He’s not quick and energetic, he’s nothing special in the air or at holding up the ball. A big part of our recent improvement was TC and Small adding width and pace on both sides. Leaburn’s on form, if you play Godden you have to move TC, which either means a formation change or playing him at wing back. It’s similar to the problem we had last season when CBT needed to play high and wide, we wanted three CMs but May needed a partner up front. What’s worse is that May and CBT are better players than Godden and TC.
I hope we make 2/3 good attacking signings to add pace, creativity and technical ability before the window closes, but I’m not expecting it. It’s clear we’re only able/willing to spend relatively small fees.
If I was Jones I wouldn't rush into changes. These players have been decent recently and Bolton are more of a footballing side so the challenge will be different. If you stop Small and TC, you have the earlier part of the season us and it is a reminder we need options out wide. I would say, this is more important than any other position at the moment.
We have no replacements for injuries to Small and TC, we can't change it up when it isn't working and we can't freshen it up when tiredness creeps in. Yes, the defence had a bad game, but they have been decent this season. I thought Docherty and Coventry were ok. Not spectacular but decent enough. They did swarm all over us though winning too much second ball and meaning if you played the ball in the general direction of a Rotherham player, they were going to get it whereas if you played it accurately to a Charlton one, they were going to be pressed into rushing things.
The team is an utter waste of time. 1 of the 7 losses we can afford already used up, and to a team that's below us.
Now Bolton becomes a must win or we are well off target.
Championship squad though.
Sounds about right for an Evans side , he usually has players that follow him everywhere so will have a bunch of late 20s early 30s players.
Not a lookalike thing but they are a couple and, by means of a coincidence, their surnames match the very good players that left the club in the summer.
I found it very funny myself but each to their own
(Was worried having seen 40+ lols last night and not recognising the 2 celebs. Should go back and give Stig a lol now.)
Saying that, Rotherham were very good. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they are in the play offs at the end of the season. They did their homework, doubling up on Small and Campbell every time they got the ball leaving them completely isolated. Once those outlets were shutdown we had nothing. They pressed hard across the pitch, exposing how uncomfortable we are on the ball to the point where they bullied us into playing long ball again. The fear is that there is a clear blueprint of how to play against us and all of the momentum of the Christmas period could erode as quickly as it was formed.
I'm cautiously optimistic that Tuesday will be better and don't think we should abandon everything on just one result. Wouldn't bee surprised to see Anderson and Ahadme back in the line up though to add a bit of energy in.
Would have been better spending the hotel money on buying a creative midfielder
Just caught the highlights and cant believe how bad our defending was and there must be better keepers out there than AMB who in my view isnt up to it. I would worry if he was Ebbsfleets keeper.
Not sure why Leaburn is getting so much stick who else do we have up front that can score goals.
It makes it all the more bizarre that we let May go in that case. Because his inability to play the pressing game has been use to explain away the fact that we signed away the league's best goalscorer.
Was he playing yesterday?
Karoy Anderson contributed more positive stuff in his cameo yesterday than Docherty puts in over ten games.
What is he for? Being powerful and combative? Pace? Vision and passing? Trickery on the ball? Getting the best out of others? Tackling?
How much are we paying him?
(This is before we get on to Ahadme, but at least with Ahadme you know he is on the pitch).
But surely otherwise, you need to find a gameplan that best uses the abilities of individual players that you do have?
All season some players have struggled to fit into the system and have looked ineffective, yet they signed here with good reputations at previous clubs.
if collectively we had a bad day yesterday with players not feeling 100% then I can relate to that, there’s a lot of stuff going around and I woke up feeling really shit yesterday morning and thinking that one of those bugs had finally caught up with me and it wasn’t until late afternoon that I started to feel better (I’ve usually tended to get over things quite quickly and I always accept the offers of flu, Covid jabs etc).This morning I’m off to the gym when 24 hours ago I couldn’t even get out of bed until midday or do much else for a few hours afterwards. Those lads are probably equally feeling like they’ve got something to put right. The next game is where to start that. Chalk yesterday up to a bad day in the office and move on.
Anderson may not be ready (open to debate) but I would play him ahead of Docherty if only because he is not a study in anonymity.
And really, despite the tinkering it's still the same core system.
But my point was there are several players in the squad who cannot seem to replicate their form at their previous clubs. And maybe constraining Leaburn and TC also?
Some of these players are just very poor at reading the game, some of these league 1 teams must really look forward to playing us!!!
They all need a massive kick in the never regions!