Politics stuff

It seems the left wing mindest is; Free speech and democracy for all, unless you disagree with what we think.

buckshee said:

Robbo on the wing said:

I would be interested to know how many eastern european limited companies have been set up and vanish 18 months down the line when their yearly payment is due.
And as for that earlier post Leroy, what a load of bollocks.

Not sure but probably less than all those ladies and gents that work at the car wash places for cash which I'm sure they all pay NI and tax on.

Riiiight. Because it's only immigrants that don't pay tax & NI, yeah? Jesus Christ - this is pretty much what it was like growing up in the seventies and eighties.

There is literally no arguing with 'em, wibble

Croydon, go back and read what I said again SLOWLY.
1) I did not call you racist (and if you think that was long winded you should see me when I really get going)
2) I did not even say what you said was racist.

So far, you're really not doing well on the "having a reasonable debate thing". Care to withdraw the abuse and try again when you've calmed down?

OK. Can you link me to their current detailed policy manifesto, please?

In the interests of fairness, we'll compare it to a similar document, the Green Party policy document: http://greenparty.org.uk/assets/files/European Manifesto 2014.pdf

It's 36 pages long, so a bit of a read. Now, I didn't even vote for the Greens in the EU elections, but I'd like to see if UKIP had an equivalent document. Once you've procured it, we can compare directly between freedom-of-speech-hating leftwingers and UKIP, bastion of democracy. Using only direct quotes.

Leuth said:

OK. Can you link me to their current detailed policy manifesto, please?

In the interests of fairness, we'll compare it to a similar document, the Green Party policy document: http://greenparty.org.uk/assets/files/European Manifesto 2014.pdf

It's 36 pages long, so a bit of a read. Now, I didn't even vote for the Greens in the EU elections, but I'd like to see if UKIP had an equivalent document. Once you've procured it, we can compare directly between freedom-of-speech-hating leftwingers and UKIP, bastion of democracy. Using only direct quotes.

I never even said UKIP stood for democracy, was merely commenting on certain remarks on this thread. Words like 'nazi' and 'racist' being thrown around very freely by those who happen to disagree with UKIP.

That graphic is aimed at domestic policies, but here's the European manifesto. I don't think any party has released their 2015 General election one yet.

http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/themes/5308a93901925b5b09000002/attachments/original/1398869254/EuroManifestoLaunch.pdf?1398869254

Croydon said:

aliwibble said:

"we're free to say that your voiced opinions are racist (which is not necessarily the same as saying you are racist, but if you're doing it often enough then you probably are)."

This to me reads as, if I voice my opinions too often then I'm probably racist. I guess that's not how you meant it to come across?

No, that if you're saying racist things too often, then you probably are racist. Wouldn't have thought that was particularly controversial to be honest, particularly as I was using the generic you rather than the specific you. (If it would make you feel happier I will edit the above to make that point clearer). I have absolutely no position on whether you've voiced any racist opinions at this point, let alone how often you might have been doing it if you had, so unless you (specific you) think you (specific you) have been saying racist things too often, then we don't have a problem.

The UKIP manifesto contains just two pages of written content, containing almost zero researched or verified fact, and blaming almost all of society's ills on immigration. And even when it doesn't, it has no evidence to cite, beyond its own rhetoric.

"• Unlimited EU immigration is putting
pressure on schools."

^^^UKIP education policy, viz a vis Europe

Compare and contrast:

"In most of Northern Europe, Higher Education is fully or
near-fully funded by the state. There are no tuition fees
in the Scandinavian countries or for Scottish residents in
Scotland. In France, an undergraduate degree costs €183. In
the Netherlands, it’s €1,700. In the UK, for comparison it’s
around €32,300 for a three year degree.
As a result, it’s likely that more and more British students
will take advantage of EU rules allowing them to study in
other EU countries on the same terms as the students from
those countries – ie, often, for free

The Bologna process brought together higher education
systems across Europe, to ensure qualifications have
equal value across Europe. So this process will become
increasingly vital to the England and Wales as we rely
on other EU member states to educate our citizens and
workforce until such a time as we scrap our dangerous
tuition fees.
Green MEPs will:
• Work towards better implementation of the Bologna
Process commitments to widening participation of people
from backgrounds not traditionally likely to go to university -
including in the UK by accepting the European norm
and abolishing tuition fees.
• Oppose the European Commission’s attempts to promote
tuition fees.
• Support the Bologna process and continued work to
ensure European qualifications are recognised equally
across Europe.
• Resist attempts to use the Bologna Process and the
directive on services in the internal market of the
European Union to turn universities into factories for
employees rather than the powerhouses of democratic
intellect. Learning is for life, not just a job.
• Support programmes such as Erasmus which encourage
students to study abroad during their degrees. Such
cultural exchanges are key to helping broaden horizons.
Erasmus has run out of funding during the financial year
on more than one occasion in recent years, and had to be
re-funded mid-year. We will push for increased funding
from the outset. In the UK, stronger support is needed
for Erasmus, and Green MEPs will support national
efforts in the UK to encourage participation in Erasmus
programmes

Schools

Whilst under 18 education is the responsibility of local
and national government, the EU has an important role in
supporting schools to learn from each other, and supporting
pupils who wish to take part in exchanges to do so.
Greens will:
• Support schemes such as Erasmus+ and eTwinning which
build direct links between pupils and schools across
Europe.
• Protect the right of EU citizens to an education in any
other EU country"

OR, we could look at UKIP's approach to social housing!

"UKIP will prioritise social housing for
those with parents and grandparents
born locally."

How cute.

Here's the Green take:

"The UK is in the middle of a housing crisis. Homelessness is
rising fast, the cost of housing – both renting and buying –
is soaring, and our houses are the worst insulated in Europe.
Far too many British people live in fear of a rent rise or a
cold winter. Coalition policies are only making the situation
worse.
The Green approach to housing is radically different from
that of the establishment parties. We support the building
of new council houses and the buying up of homes to make
them council houses. We would end the automatic right to
buy social housing, and support a shift to a right to rent and
funding for models such as housing co-ops.
Whilst most key powers relating to housing are held by
EU member states and many are held in the UK by local
councils, there are ways in which the EU can help end the
UK housing crisis.
Green MEPs would work towards:
• Banking regulations, taxes and reforms which encourage
investment in the real economy, which includes house
building, rather than speculation on the price of already
built houses (see under ‘banking’, above).
• Encouraging member states to adopt zero rating of VAT
for the renovation and insulation of housing, to match
the zero rating currently in place for new builds. We will
push for VAT to be scrapped all together, but this is an
important interim measure.
• The codification of a set of rights for tenants’ unions to sit
alongside legal rights for trades unions.
• More support for municipalities and local authorities
across Europe to share best practice in housing policy (and
other policy areas). UK local government in particular has
much to learn from the rest of Europe.
• Investment through green quantitative easing in a
generation of new, zero carbon, affordable housing across
Europe."

Show me your working, UKIP! Show me you're not just a demagogueish, single-issue protest party without a solitary clue how to manage a complex beast such as a nation!

Can't beat this site for political balance

So to vote Tory you have to be a little Englander, zzzz

I vote Tory because I am a hard working family man.

Honestly if you have a job why would you vote for anyone else

Southendaddick said:

Can't beat this site for political balance

So to vote Tory you have to be a little Englander, zzzz

I vote Tory because I am a hard working family man.

Honestly if you have a job why would you vote for anyone else

This all the way.

se9addick said:

SE9 said:

next election...
vote ukip (you dont have a say, straight out of Europe)
vote Lib dems ( keep Europe)
vote labour ( scared to talk about it)
conservatives ( scared to talk about it)

the only 2 party's that wanna discuss it went head to head. i have never voted lib dem but at least clegg can see it how it is and will then debate. Respect to him

It seems like Europe should be a topic for debate, but why has it become the only topic for debate ?

Because it was a European Election?

And so speaks the northerner

No offence mate

Seriously what state do you think the economy would be in now if labour were in control