Evans back at SUFC (agreed terms with Oldham p.25)
Comments
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nth london addick said:
And his potential new father in law is willing to cover all losses at Oldham due to sponsorship pull out
If true, this is ridiculous.0 -
You can't (although you might not realise it at the time) - I wasn't supporting the 'grades of rape' argument but just pointing out that in the eyes of the law by contrast there are 'grades of killing someone' (murder, manslaughter, causing death by dangerous driving etc.)Stu_of_Kunming said:
The distinction relates tothe intention at the time of the crime.newyorkaddick said:It is interesting however that there is a distinction between murder and manslaughter, even though the result of the crime is the same (and certainly no less distressing for the victim's family/friends).
I find it curious that I would presumably only be charged with manslaughter if I punched somebody in a pub (perhaps following an ill-advised quip about Charlton's lack of goals), and they happened to fall and fatally bang their head.
Although most punches do not end up in death, the mere fact that a reasonable person would acknowledge that it holds some risk of this outcome should surely render my actions murder?
How do you rape someone by accident?0 -
If he had spent some of his cash on procuring professional PR advice rather than relying on his intellectually challenged girlfriend and her family then he would probably already be playing football again.Chris_from_Sidcup said:nth london addick said:And his potential new father in law is willing to cover all losses at Oldham due to sponsorship pull out
If true, this is ridiculous.1 -
Sinister as well. Also he and the family are blatantly orchestrating the hounding/outing the girl thing. Nothing to do with so called 'fans of the striker'.Chris_from_Sidcup said:nth london addick said:And his potential new father in law is willing to cover all losses at Oldham due to sponsorship pull out
If true, this is ridiculous.
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It is true Chris
My stance on anyone who commits any sexulaly offence is simple there is no difference in rape, rape is rape end of its all about control and gratification and taking advantage of the person involved, the fact he never beat her and battered her is the only difference, but those parts of the act aren't rape they are violent assault
I have hate for anyone that attacks man woman or child for a sexual kick
More so now I have children of my own3 -
No idea what the father in law does, but perhaps he should forget paying Oldham for their probable loss of sponsors and just pay Evans to work for him instead.3
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Isn't the difference in the two scenarios intent? "Your" punch was not intended to kill, it was an accident, albeit with devastating consequences. I fail to see how you can accidentally rape someone. You may be ignorant of the law, but that is no excuse in the eyes of the law.newyorkaddick said:It is interesting however that there is a distinction between murder and manslaughter, even though the result of the crime is the same (and certainly no less distressing for the victim's family/friends).
I find it curious that I would presumably only be charged with manslaughter if I punched somebody in a pub (perhaps following an ill-advised quip about Charlton's lack of goals), and they happened to fall and fatally bang their head.
Although most punches do not end up in death, the mere fact that a reasonable person would acknowledge that it holds some risk of this outcome should surely render my actions murder?
I put it up yesterday, this is a piece from the Independent today http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ched-evans-has-served-his-time--and-other-misconceptions-about-the-convicted-rapist-footballer-9957849.htmlRothko said:I take it, and hope the Henry Winter piece has had an airing on this thread.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/11326603/Ched-Evans-latest-Shame-on-Oldham-for-even-thinking-of-signing-the-striker.html
In a way there is a sliding scale in rape, hwoever "rape is rape" and it is reflected in the sentencing.Bournemouth Addick said:
For Christ's sake how many more times are we going to have this spurious sliding scales of rape argument?Rob said:I know rape is rape in the eyes of the law but there are varying degrees of rape in my opinion. I, also, wouldn't classify Ched Evans in the same category of, say, a convicted rapist with multiple offences of preying on women. Multiple offences of manipulating women and, basically, being very cruel. Sick rapists are like that.
I agree that NLA has a very extreme view on rape and he keeps using the term 'nonce' which is extremely derogatory which of course is NLA's intention. I also thought the term nonce was really meant to be used for sex offenders against children and using it really paints a picture of an evil person. I would say that sick rapists as mentioned above would fall into this category which Ched Evans isn't, in my opinion.
NLA - you obviously feel 'very' strongly about the Ched Evans rape case. Your responses always come over to me as far more aggressive than the normal posts that you make on other subjects. Could you explain why you believe the Ched Evans rape is on the same level as the sick rapists who cruelly prey on women. I know 'rape is rape' in the eyes of the law but I'm looking for more than that as an answer. I would like to understand your viewpoint. Thanks.
It is for the judge, who has heard all the mitigation and aggravating evidence to pass sentence not you, me or anyone else to impose our own value judgement on whether the victim is more, or less, of a victim than in other cases. She was subject to non consensual penetrative sex. That should be the focus not some discussion over whether her case is "better or worse" than another rape victim.
Extremely weird, how many of us would like our daughters to be going out with a guy who had cheated on her, let alone done it through rape?Stig said:The thing that I still find the most puzzling about this whole business is how the girlfriend and her family are still sticking by him. Even if they genuinely believe he is innocent of rape, what he did was still a betrayal of her - there's no denying that. It doesn't seem as if it's about the money, based on reports that daddy is minted and as prepared to shell out hard cash to get him back to work. Weird.
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The grades of killing someone are nothing to do with how the act takes place and everything to do with the intention at the time of the act.newyorkaddick said:
You can't (although you might not realise it at the time) - I wasn't supporting the 'grades of rape' argument but just pointing out that in the eyes of the law by contrast there are 'grades of killing someone' (murder, manslaughter, causing death by dangerous driving etc.)Stu_of_Kunming said:
The distinction relates tothe intention at the time of the crime.newyorkaddick said:It is interesting however that there is a distinction between murder and manslaughter, even though the result of the crime is the same (and certainly no less distressing for the victim's family/friends).
I find it curious that I would presumably only be charged with manslaughter if I punched somebody in a pub (perhaps following an ill-advised quip about Charlton's lack of goals), and they happened to fall and fatally bang their head.
Although most punches do not end up in death, the mere fact that a reasonable person would acknowledge that it holds some risk of this outcome should surely render my actions murder?
How do you rape someone by accident?
It cannot be the same for rape as no one can suggest they didn't know they was raping someone, or didn't mean to.
I'm also not sure how you can rape someone without realising it, some of the posts (yours certainly not being the worst) make me think I must have lived a very, very sheltered life.2 -
Very sensible solutionChris_from_Sidcup said:No idea what the father in law does, but perhaps he should forget paying Oldham for their probable loss of sponsors and just pay Evans to work for him instead.
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He does not employ rapistsChris_from_Sidcup said:No idea what the father in law does, but perhaps he should forget paying Oldham for their probable loss of sponsors and just pay Evans to work for him instead.
14 - Sponsored links:
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If they are stupid enough to think he could be innocent, perhaps they are stupid enough to think he could make it to the prem and earn tons of cash. This coud be some kind of sick investment.Chris_from_Sidcup said:No idea what the father in law does, but perhaps he should forget paying Oldham for their probable loss of sponsors and just pay Evans to work for him instead.
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If the PFA, Football League and Premier League released a statement announcing that, should any pro footballer be convicted of rape from henceforth, they will be banned from becoming members of their associations for life, I'm not sure who would or could argue with that.8
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Signing for Oldham, set to be announced on Thursday.0
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Until "unexpected public outcry" forces them to change their mind. This is going to be a quite predictable process that will repeat itself every few weeks for the next year or so.Callumcafc said:Signing for Oldham, set to be announced on Thursday.
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The public backlash has been huge when clubs have only considered signing him. When one actually does it, it is going to go mad. I feel for the bloke who runs the Oldham social media accounts. He might as well just shut the accounts down for a few days and go on holiday.Callumcafc said:Signing for Oldham, set to be announced on Thursday.
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SSN also saying he will play against Doncaster this Saturday:( Wow.0
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Scummy club0
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Well that's me proven wrong, incredible decisionCallumcafc said:0 -
one of there chief sponsors is a legal firm , they are not opposing Evans signing. I cant see how they could ? Jury said his was guilty---went to the slammer--cant be punished twice by stopping him in his profession unless this was stated as part of his punishment (no working with kids etc).
If (and it dosnt look like he will) he was to support rape crisis centres , victim support, etc etc then it might be easier, but the fact he sees himself as not guilty is a further issue. The PFA should only support him if he does actually offer some sort of contrition etc
Oldhams last gate 4,000 yet 30,000 sign a petition saying dont sign him in 24 hours ?0 - Sponsored links:
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football set the precedent when they re-employed lee hughes and luke mccormack. these men killed people and in mccormack 2 young children. whats worse ? other rapists have been allowed out of prison and go back to work why shouldnt Evans. not forgetting the black fella at birmingham who's name escapes
if oldham take him on and he bangs goals in gets them promotion the sponsors will be back, the fans will love him again.
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With respect that is simply untrue due to the complex legal nature of the offence.Stu_of_Kunming said:
The grades of killing someone are nothing to do with how the act takes place and everything to do with the intention at the time of the act.newyorkaddick said:
You can't (although you might not realise it at the time) - I wasn't supporting the 'grades of rape' argument but just pointing out that in the eyes of the law by contrast there are 'grades of killing someone' (murder, manslaughter, causing death by dangerous driving etc.)Stu_of_Kunming said:
The distinction relates tothe intention at the time of the crime.newyorkaddick said:It is interesting however that there is a distinction between murder and manslaughter, even though the result of the crime is the same (and certainly no less distressing for the victim's family/friends).
I find it curious that I would presumably only be charged with manslaughter if I punched somebody in a pub (perhaps following an ill-advised quip about Charlton's lack of goals), and they happened to fall and fatally bang their head.
Although most punches do not end up in death, the mere fact that a reasonable person would acknowledge that it holds some risk of this outcome should surely render my actions murder?
How do you rape someone by accident?
It cannot be the same for rape as no one can suggest they didn't know they was raping someone, or didn't mean to.
I'm also not sure how you can rape someone without realising it, some of the posts (yours certainly not being the worst) make me think I must have lived a very, very sheltered life.
In short, you can be unaware you have raped someone yet have raped them (and quite correctly feel the full force of the law). This is quite different from say murder or robbery.0 -
For a (very depressing) footballing precedent just Google Owen Oyston.Ledge said:football set the precedent when they re-employed lee hughes and luke mccormack. these men killed people and in mccormack 2 young children. whats worse ? other rapists have been allowed out of prison and go back to work why shouldnt Evans. not forgetting the black fella at birmingham who's name escapes
if oldham take him on and he bangs goals in gets them promotion the sponsors will be back, the fans will love him again.0 -
But as i stated, ignorance of the law is no defence in the eyes of the law. You cannot accidently rape someone, as in accidentally killing them, however you can unknowingly rape them due to your (and many others) ignorance of the law.newyorkaddick said:
With respect that is simply untrue due to the complex legal nature of the offence.Stu_of_Kunming said:
The grades of killing someone are nothing to do with how the act takes place and everything to do with the intention at the time of the act.newyorkaddick said:
You can't (although you might not realise it at the time) - I wasn't supporting the 'grades of rape' argument but just pointing out that in the eyes of the law by contrast there are 'grades of killing someone' (murder, manslaughter, causing death by dangerous driving etc.)Stu_of_Kunming said:
The distinction relates tothe intention at the time of the crime.newyorkaddick said:It is interesting however that there is a distinction between murder and manslaughter, even though the result of the crime is the same (and certainly no less distressing for the victim's family/friends).
I find it curious that I would presumably only be charged with manslaughter if I punched somebody in a pub (perhaps following an ill-advised quip about Charlton's lack of goals), and they happened to fall and fatally bang their head.
Although most punches do not end up in death, the mere fact that a reasonable person would acknowledge that it holds some risk of this outcome should surely render my actions murder?
How do you rape someone by accident?
It cannot be the same for rape as no one can suggest they didn't know they was raping someone, or didn't mean to.
I'm also not sure how you can rape someone without realising it, some of the posts (yours certainly not being the worst) make me think I must have lived a very, very sheltered life.
In short, you can be unaware you have raped someone yet have raped them (and quite correctly feel the full force of the law). This is quite different from say murder or robbery.0 -
It's really not that complex. Rape is penetration without consent. He never received consent. Being 'unaware' that you committed a rape is simply not caring that you have. The intent to have sex regardless of consent is still there.newyorkaddick said:
With respect that is simply untrue due to the complex legal nature of the offence.Stu_of_Kunming said:
The grades of killing someone are nothing to do with how the act takes place and everything to do with the intention at the time of the act.newyorkaddick said:
You can't (although you might not realise it at the time) - I wasn't supporting the 'grades of rape' argument but just pointing out that in the eyes of the law by contrast there are 'grades of killing someone' (murder, manslaughter, causing death by dangerous driving etc.)Stu_of_Kunming said:
The distinction relates tothe intention at the time of the crime.newyorkaddick said:It is interesting however that there is a distinction between murder and manslaughter, even though the result of the crime is the same (and certainly no less distressing for the victim's family/friends).
I find it curious that I would presumably only be charged with manslaughter if I punched somebody in a pub (perhaps following an ill-advised quip about Charlton's lack of goals), and they happened to fall and fatally bang their head.
Although most punches do not end up in death, the mere fact that a reasonable person would acknowledge that it holds some risk of this outcome should surely render my actions murder?
How do you rape someone by accident?
It cannot be the same for rape as no one can suggest they didn't know they was raping someone, or didn't mean to.
I'm also not sure how you can rape someone without realising it, some of the posts (yours certainly not being the worst) make me think I must have lived a very, very sheltered life.
In short, you can be unaware you have raped someone yet have raped them (and quite correctly feel the full force of the law). This is quite different from say murder or robbery.2 -
This was covered by the Telegraph article and also went on to say how a campaign could spill over into the accounts of other players. I would add it culd then spill over int the accounts of wives and girlfriends of other players!! A hornets nest.Addickforlife said:
The public backlash has been huge when clubs have only considered signing him. When one actually does it, it is going to go mad. I feel for the bloke who runs the Oldham social media accounts. He might as well just shut the accounts down for a few days and go on holiday.Callumcafc said:Signing for Oldham, set to be announced on Thursday.
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Judy Finnigan make the point about rape on a spectrum and got unfairly slaughtered for it IMO.1
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I completely agree - the 'unknowing' part was what I was trying to describe (albeit not very eloquently!)Kap10 said:
But as i stated, ignorance of the law is no defence in the eyes of the law. You cannot accidently rape someone, as in accidentally killing them, however you can unknowingly rape them due to your (and many others) ignorance of the law.newyorkaddick said:
With respect that is simply untrue due to the complex legal nature of the offence.Stu_of_Kunming said:
The grades of killing someone are nothing to do with how the act takes place and everything to do with the intention at the time of the act.newyorkaddick said:
You can't (although you might not realise it at the time) - I wasn't supporting the 'grades of rape' argument but just pointing out that in the eyes of the law by contrast there are 'grades of killing someone' (murder, manslaughter, causing death by dangerous driving etc.)Stu_of_Kunming said:
The distinction relates tothe intention at the time of the crime.newyorkaddick said:It is interesting however that there is a distinction between murder and manslaughter, even though the result of the crime is the same (and certainly no less distressing for the victim's family/friends).
I find it curious that I would presumably only be charged with manslaughter if I punched somebody in a pub (perhaps following an ill-advised quip about Charlton's lack of goals), and they happened to fall and fatally bang their head.
Although most punches do not end up in death, the mere fact that a reasonable person would acknowledge that it holds some risk of this outcome should surely render my actions murder?
How do you rape someone by accident?
It cannot be the same for rape as no one can suggest they didn't know they was raping someone, or didn't mean to.
I'm also not sure how you can rape someone without realising it, some of the posts (yours certainly not being the worst) make me think I must have lived a very, very sheltered life.
In short, you can be unaware you have raped someone yet have raped them (and quite correctly feel the full force of the law). This is quite different from say murder or robbery.
In the absence of signed written consent however (which in my limited experience can appear somewhat unromantic), it is going to remain a complex and (for some 'unknowing' men) potentially dangerous area especially where alcohol is involved.
I would have found the behaviour of Evans abhorrent on the night in question even if the victim had never filed a complaint, but I suspect it would never have crossed McDonald's mind that he might become embroiled in a rape case (yet the CPS concluded that he should be). Regardless of whether he did or did not rape the victim (the jury concluded he didn't), that should be fairly terrifying for any young lothario.0 -
think the thread title needs to be chaged as this has nothing to do with Sheffield United anymore1
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I knew Oldham were scummy, but the deliberate leaking of this, to bury the news is vile0
