Are the DUP like the loyalist equivalent of Sinn Fein ? I.e were they the political wing of one (or more) of the loyalist paramilitaries back in the day but now stand as a legitimate party with no (official) link to terrorist/paramilitary groups ?
No. The equivalent to Sinn Fein on the Loyalist side would have been the Progressive Unionist Party (UVF) and Ulster Political Research Group (UDA), though the latter encouraged support for Emma Little Pengelly in her successful challenge for South Belfast yesterday.
It's much more the case that the DUP has represented most closely a intransigent and hardline Protestant strand of Unionism (often working class or rural that the Ulster Unionsits took for granted).
Although Ian Paisley did flirt with the idea of creating his own militia/paramilitary-type group in the 1980s, with the Third Force, and there was Peter Robinson's spirited actions in County Monaghan in 1986 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clontibret_invasion), I'd be inclined not to suggest anything organised - there were short term alliances and a willingness to engage in mass disruption, but not a specific association between a paramilitary group and the Party.
They are very British, to a degree that is, in many ways, unBritish.
Can't wait to see the right wing nutters vociferously condemning Teresa May for jumping into bed with the DUP - a political party with historic links to Loyalist terror groups the UVF and UDA who killed hundreds of people during The troubles.
This was one of the ones the Conservative's were targeting specifically. (A bit optimistic, as I couldn't see them grabbing anything extra in London... I thought that was pretty obvious!)
Rob, I don't think you can just look at this result in terms of absolute number of seats. There's so much subtext to this. From the start I said anything but an increase in their majority would be a failure for the Tories, a loss of seats would be a disaster but what we actually got was verging on one of the biggest fuck ups in political history. Sure, they're still in power, just but for me it's all about momentum.
When this election was announced how many honestly thought it would end up like this? Corbyn was so far behind that Labour not being wiped off the political map altogether was being seen by some as doing well.
Labour still lost the election, that can't be ignored but it isn't what was important here. We all felt that the Tories would win but in losing the election Labour still won. I guess you could say lost the battle to win the war but we will have to wait and see how the war pans out.
I was just trying to put a bit of perspective on the results itself in comparison to what has come before. I've said a few times this morning that the Conservatives royally messed up, utter utter failure and Labour did well - both from where they were, but even in those circumstances when you compare yesterday to the previous 6 elections it's not as if the country has listened to Corbyn's ideas and said 'yup that's for me' compared to previous labour leaders, he is still well short of a majority and just about joint 2nd worst election result for Labour in the last 7 elections or 25 years.
I don't honestly see in another election with the same manifesto's Labour romping home with a majority. I think Labour have a real chance though if they can move slightly more to the right of gaining power, much like Blair did (and they wouldn't have to move as far as he did).... it seems to me that there is still a core of centre people in this country that form the majority. As generations change that may too, but I don't see that for the foreseeable future. I can see more the Conservatives learning from their lessons and the next election taking a majority again if Corbyn remains, they were only 7/8 seats short under the worst election campaign known to man!
I don't care what colour a party is or what name they take, I've never had any allegiance on that basis, if either party had been slightly more central it could have been a massively different result, that's my take anyway, if you want a government that truly represents ALL the people then you need to compromise and meet somewhere in the middle. Not that I can stand the bloke in the end but that's effectively what Blair did in 1997 with 418 seats and again in 2001, how many leaders can say they had that much of a majority? As per usual those seeking election need to listen to what the people want, sadly they rarely do as 'they know better'.
It is the challenge not to move to the right and it won't now. That was our objective. The polls converged and we probably needed another month. Corbyn has gone from the local election results due to the in -fighting when the election was called to reeling in a 20 point lead. If you watched the incredible convergence and really analysed it you would see it for what it is - one of the most meteoric rises in a short space of time in political history.
I knew it, you work for Corbyn don't you
I agree that Corbyn has had a meteoric rise, however that often comes before an equally meteoric fall, just ask Leicester.
When the full information is out I can do some more analysis from age demographic to party alliances where the Greens/UKIP and others agreed not to stand to help labour or conservatives.
I just hope that one day, 27 years after reaching voting age there is a party that I actually want to vote for rather than what I consider the best of a bad bunch.
Corbyn is approaching 70 so I don't think he'll be on the political landscape too much longer and I don't see a queue of like minded individuals to take over. I think there are many labour politicians who could win a general election and form a government but they'll all move more to the centre than Corbyn ever would.
We'll find out one day, that's the beauty of the future in the meantime from a governing perspective we've got to deal with, thanks to our idiotic politicians, what we all voted for and it doesn't look pretty........
Unlikely I know, but if we haven't got a government with the credibility to negotiate Brexit I would like to see Corbyn, a Eurosceptic, and May agree a joint Brexit negotiating team representing a Parliamentary majority, rather than a lame government.
Parliament as a body is certainly now going to have the final say and unless the negotiation has the force of Parliamentary support no UK demand will be taken seriously by Brussels.
It would solve the madness of the UK exposing its position in advance for a Parliamentary vote, or the same madness of going back to Parliament with a proposition when negotiations are completed.
Thats DUP leader Peter Robinson admitting to supporting UDA prisoners and denying that the UDA - which killed over 400 people in the troubles were even terrorists at all.
So, I think we are pretty safe to say these guys are pretty close.
Just a quick reminder to anyone who voted Conservative in 2015 and Leave in 2016. Your votes have helped secure the transition of power over the United Kingdom from Brussels to Belfast.
Just a quick reminder to anyone who voted Conservative in 2015 and Leave in 2016. Your votes have helped secure the transition of power over the United Kingdom from Brussels to Belfast.
Churlish comment I know but last time I checked Belfast was in the U.K.
So I'm trying to work this all out...Tories campaigned against a coalition of chaos with labour, pressed his links to the IRA etc. Didn't win the election and then go into coalition with a party with known links to IRA terrorism and extremism...AND May stays on as PM after the biggest backfire in politics? Not sure I see the democracy in that
These papers do my nut. The day before polling day the standard come out and tell us we should vote Tory for the good of the capital. Today they want some headline grabbing rubbish to distance themselves.
You backed her, you made your bed, you lie in it. Don't suddenly be all jumping on the bandwagon of the Tory battering. Pathetic once again from the media
Why aren't press allowed to criticise the government?! Isn't that what you've been asking for all along.
Damned if they do..
I'm happy for them to criticise. It's just that that paper told us they were backing the Tory party on Wednesday.....
So I'm trying to work this all out...Tories campaigned against a coalition of chaos with labour, pressed his links to the IRA etc. Didn't win the election and then go into coalition with a party with known links to IRA terrorism and extremism...AND May stays on as PM after the biggest backfire in politics? Not sure I see the democracy in that
I dont think the DUP every supported or had links to the IRA. The UDA perhaps.
Evening Sub-Standard: Wednesday: 'Vote Tory' (* Gasp*) Thursday: 'You Decide'. (How very liberal of you, George) Friday: 'Bread prices rocket due to mass trespass of wheat fields'. Monday: - 'Saint Theresa's Our United Kingdom' - 'Corbyn in drug-fuelled sex romp' - And a story about a bloke from Peckham with a big beard and a pint of Craft American Pale Ale, buying two three-bedroom flats with a 0.003% deposit' (*Gasp*)
Just a quick reminder to anyone who voted Conservative in 2015 and Leave in 2016. Your votes have helped secure the transition of power over the United Kingdom from Brussels to Belfast.
Churlish comment I know but last time I checked Belfast was in the U.K.
If we have to "repatriate" powers - particularly over spending, I'd prefer them to be repatriated to London.
So I'm trying to work this all out...Tories campaigned against a coalition of chaos with labour, pressed his links to the IRA etc. Didn't win the election and then go into coalition with a party with known links to IRA terrorism and extremism...AND May stays on as PM after the biggest backfire in politics? Not sure I see the democracy in that
Thats DUP leader Peter Robinson admitting to supporting UDA prisoners and denying that the UDA - which killed over 400 people in the troubles were even terrorists at all.
So, I think we are pretty safe to say these guys are pretty close.
Paddy Ashdown summed it up perfectly for me on the radio just now. Both the 2016 referendum and this election were not wanted nor were they necessary but the Tories called them anyway because they put the wishes of their party before the wishes of the people.
Comments
It's much more the case that the DUP has represented most closely a intransigent and hardline Protestant strand of Unionism (often working class or rural that the Ulster Unionsits took for granted).
Although Ian Paisley did flirt with the idea of creating his own militia/paramilitary-type group in the 1980s, with the Third Force, and there was Peter Robinson's spirited actions in County Monaghan in 1986 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clontibret_invasion), I'd be inclined not to suggest anything organised - there were short term alliances and a willingness to engage in mass disruption, but not a specific association between a paramilitary group and the Party.
They are very British, to a degree that is, in many ways, unBritish.
I agree that Corbyn has had a meteoric rise, however that often comes before an equally meteoric fall, just ask Leicester.
When the full information is out I can do some more analysis from age demographic to party alliances where the Greens/UKIP and others agreed not to stand to help labour or conservatives.
I just hope that one day, 27 years after reaching voting age there is a party that I actually want to vote for rather than what I consider the best of a bad bunch.
Corbyn is approaching 70 so I don't think he'll be on the political landscape too much longer and I don't see a queue of like minded individuals to take over. I think there are many labour politicians who could win a general election and form a government but they'll all move more to the centre than Corbyn ever would.
We'll find out one day, that's the beauty of the future
Parliament as a body is certainly now going to have the final say and unless the negotiation has the force of Parliamentary support no UK demand will be taken seriously by Brussels.
It would solve the madness of the UK exposing its position in advance for a Parliamentary vote, or the same madness of going back to Parliament with a proposition when negotiations are completed.
Thats DUP leader Peter Robinson admitting to supporting UDA prisoners and denying that the UDA - which killed over 400 people in the troubles were even terrorists at all.
So, I think we are pretty safe to say these guys are pretty close.
Country needs "certainty" and "only the Conservative and Unionist (yes she used the full name of the tories) party can deliver that"
Says can work with the DUP in particular.
Brexit again. "now let's get to work".
Didn't take any questions.
That was it.
Nothing about last night other than she won the most seats. No reflection or thanks.
Wednesday:
'Vote Tory' (* Gasp*)
Thursday:
'You Decide'. (How very liberal of you, George)
Friday:
'Bread prices rocket due to mass trespass of wheat fields'.
Monday:
- 'Saint Theresa's Our United Kingdom'
- 'Corbyn in drug-fuelled sex romp'
- And a story about a bloke from Peckham with a big beard and a pint of Craft American Pale Ale, buying two three-bedroom flats with a 0.003% deposit' (*Gasp*)
A week or two, perhaps.
And they managed to fuck them both up as well...
(he may not have said the last bit tbf)