The General Election - June 8th 2017
Comments
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So he's prepared to lie to get what he personally wants? (rhetorical question - I know the answer!). Sounds eminently qualified to lead the tories.DamoNorthStand said:Boris has been lining up a way into number 10 for a while.
Wondering if the Tories felt that May's robotic personality affected her affinity with the younger electorate who responded to Corbyns more outward style.
Either way - May is hanging on and needs to go. Let her do the nasty of job of getting Brexit underway and then Boris comes in (I dont buy the whole Brexit Boris thing - he was remain all the way but just wanted power).2 -
We shall see.se9addick said:
We can easily have Brexit and avoid a hard border.micks1950 said:
I think the idea that this minority Tory administration propped up by the DUP will remain in office for 5 years is frankly fanciful.Henry Irving said:
We've got five more years of the Tories. They won, they are forming the new government.Callumcafc said:I don't think people celebrating the result are celebrating for Labour necessarily, they're celebrating for the country.
I dread to think how much worse things would've got with five more Tory years - no Brexit deal, dementia tax for the old, housing crisis for the young, continual public spending cuts... The vote yesterday stopped the nasty party dead in their tracks.
They might be reined in slightly by the DUP and their small majority means so won't be able to push any old policy through but they won.
The tory manifesto was deliberately vague and covered so much ground ie fox hunting so the May would have a free hand for five years to do what she wanted. It didn't quite work and she won't be able to push fox hunting (as a example) through because only a few backbenchers can rebel but don't be in any doubt. The tories won.
It would be an achievement if it were to last for the duration of the remaining Article 50 Brexit process until March 2019 - let alone beyond that.
As the detail and reality of Brexit emerges between now and then the strains in the Tory party on what 'type' of Brexit will only increase and the contradictory and unrealistic approach of the DUP - pro-Brexit but somehow wanting to avoid a 'hard border' - will only add to those strains (and that's without considering all the other policy issues where detail was absent from the Tory manifesto).
But I'd be interested to hear how you think it can be avoided (particularly 'easily') with the Irish Republic remaining in the EU and therefore open to the free movement of people goods and services with the rest of the EU, but Northern Ireland leaving the EU with the UK and being subject to whatever lesser trade arrangements can be negotiated as part of Brexit, or no trade arrangement at all (as some 'Brexiteers' seem to favour)?
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Boris Johnson "on manoeuvres"
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We have to go for the Norway model - we were regularly cited Norway as an example of how Brexit could work by the Brexiters so why not? I would be happy with this. I know a lot of Tory voters wont so better May does it than Corbyn. Poisoned chalice really!0
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I've seen a lot of media comments where it is assumed that the DUP are for soft Brexit, because of their expressed desire for frictionless cross border access between the UK and EU.
Can I just point out that Theresa May has suggested that she wants the same, while also taking the UK out of both the Single Market and the Customs Union? The only problem with this being that they are mutually incompatible.
At no stage, since last year's referendum, have I heard anything from the DUP that indicates that they are not wholly on board with May's plans.
What will not happen now is any suggestion of controls being placed between Northern Ireland and Britain, to ease the border question. Nor will there be a vote on the future status of Northern Ireland.
It's a personal opinion, but I fear the chances of any deal have receeded (and I wasn't overly optimistic to begin with).5 -
Voters in Hastings were apparently being turned away despite being registered.
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StigThundercock said:
And this would be ruinously counter productive. To take the UK's main rate of CT to 8 or 10 percent above most of our European neighbours would see the amazon/starbucks arrangement spread like wildfire across UK businesses and the tax take collapse as a result. Unpleasant it may be to accept but the best brains in business taxation, work for the corporations not HMRC. Post war, raising mainstream taxes has routinely been counter productive. That said, the tories' last desperate "plan" was to move too far too quickly the other way, but then Cameron and Osborne were only ever aiming for their own corporate futures.Callumcafc said:This was Labour's corporation tax pledge:
"Labour plans to increase the main rate of corporation tax, reaching 26 per cent by 2020-21, but to reintroduce the ‘small profits rate’ for small businesses. This would apply to companies with annual profits below £300k and would be set at 20%, rising to 21% in 2020-21."
No it wouldn't!
https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/corporate-tax-rate?continent=europe
The 26% would still be less than Germany, Italy and France and only 1% more than Spain. Whilst the 20/21% rate would be significantly less.
Unless of course you are comparing us to Moldova, Latvia and Serbia?5 -
Surely Boris would absolutely embarrass himself on a national general election campaign trail within a week or so? I know the public used to be warm to him back in the days when Have I Got News For You used to be popular but hasn't the general opinion on him cooled down?0
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They may well dump May but I think they will try to cling on for as long as they can. After yesterday which leader is going to call an early election if they can possibly avoid it.micks1950 said:
I think the idea that this minority Tory administration propped up by the DUP will remain in office for 5 years is frankly fanciful.Henry Irving said:
We've got five more years of the Tories. They won, they are forming the new government.Callumcafc said:I don't think people celebrating the result are celebrating for Labour necessarily, they're celebrating for the country.
I dread to think how much worse things would've got with five more Tory years - no Brexit deal, dementia tax for the old, housing crisis for the young, continual public spending cuts... The vote yesterday stopped the nasty party dead in their tracks.
They might be reined in slightly by the DUP and their small majority means so won't be able to push any old policy through but they won.
The tory manifesto was deliberately vague and covered so much ground ie fox hunting so the May would have a free hand for five years to do what she wanted. It didn't quite work and she won't be able to push fox hunting (as a example) through because only a few backbenchers can rebel but don't be in any doubt. The tories won.
It would be an achievement if it were to last for the duration of the remaining Article 50 Brexit process until March 2019 - let alone beyond that.
As the detail and reality of Brexit emerges between now and then the strains in the Tory party on what 'type' of Brexit will only increase and the contradictory and unrealistic approach of the DUP - pro-Brexit but somehow wanting to avoid a 'hard border' - will only add to those strains (and that's without considering all the other policy issues where detail was absent from the Tory manifesto).1 -
May ran this as a Presidential Campaign. No input from the cabinet about calling the election, or the manifesto
Boris was kept in a cupboard and let out twice
The likes of Phillip Hammond, the current Chancellor (!) (plus others like Liam Fox) were completely invisible
Amber Rudd was only called on towards the end to cover for May
As a result, most of the brown stuff will stick to her and her advisers, rather than collectively...6 - Sponsored links:
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Read the same last night, about Plymouth,Scoham said:Voters in Hastings were apparently being turned away despite being registered.
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We mustn't forget the tories May called the election to silence who now have gained much power. Can you see Kenneth Clarke accepting a hard Brexit for instance?NornIrishAddick said:I've seen a lot of media comments where it is assumed that the DUP are for soft Brexit, because of their expressed desire for frictionless cross border access between the UK and EU.
Can I just point out that Theresa May has suggested that she wants the same, while also taking the UK out of both the Single Market and the Customs Union? The only problem with this being that they are mutually incompatible.
At no stage, since last year's referendum, have I heard anything from the DUP that indicates that they are not wholly on board with May's plans.
What will not happen now is any suggestion of controls being placed between Northern Ireland and Britain, to ease the border question. Nor will there be a vote on the future status of Northern Ireland.
It's a personal opinion, but I fear the chances of any deal have receeded (and I wasn't overly optimistic to begin with).0 -
Give the bloke a chancehudson-son-son said:Surely Boris would absolutely embarrass himself on a national general election campaign trail within a week or so? I know the public used to be warm to him back in the days when Have I Got News For You used to be popular but hasn't the general opinion on him cooled down?
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If he's the best they've got, and replaces May then what the hell has happened to leadership in this country. I mean I get I'm anti tory, but is that the best we've got and who we would want leading Brexit.hudson-son-son said:Surely Boris would absolutely embarrass himself on a national general election campaign trail within a week or so? I know the public used to be warm to him back in the days when Have I Got News For You used to be popular but hasn't the general opinion on him cooled down?
The more the events of the last 24 hours start to set in with me, the more I realise what a shambles politics in our country is2 -
yeah I reckon about 351 will now come forwardScoham said:Voters in Hastings were apparently being turned away despite being registered.
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Oh, come on! There are plenty of great candidates who will all really engage with the British public...bobmunro said:
I think she will go when a challenger emergesnth london addick said:She will go surely there's no way she can stay even she knows that I am sure it's a stay of execution more than anything else
...except these ones
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It's good to see the left have handled things as magnanimously as you would expect...
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All caused by the the extremist element of the Tory party who forced Cameron to promise a Euro Regerendum to voters. If it wasn't for this selfish lunatic fringe of the Tory party who put their interests above the country we would now be entering the third year of Cameron's second term without having endured the strife, chaos and division of the past 12 months and and without having to prepare for at least another two years of strife, chaos and division.cabbles said:
If he's the best they've got, and replaces May then what the hell has happened to leadership in this country. I mean I get I'm anti tory, but is that the best we've got and who we would want leading Brexit.hudson-son-son said:Surely Boris would absolutely embarrass himself on a national general election campaign trail within a week or so? I know the public used to be warm to him back in the days when Have I Got News For You used to be popular but hasn't the general opinion on him cooled down?
The more the events of the last 24 hours start to set in with me, the more I realise what a shambles politics in our country is11 -
Ruth Davidson is a formadible politician that I would personally fear. Boris after an acrimonious battle to get May to go would be a gift from the gods. Whilst still popular with some, his brand is toxic with an increasing number of people. That and the inevitable cock ups and if the tories do this out of desperation they will be writing their suicide letter.cabbles said:
If he's the best they've got, and replaces May then what the hell has happened to leadership in this country. I mean I get I'm anti tory, but is that the best we've got and who we would want leading Brexit.hudson-son-son said:Surely Boris would absolutely embarrass himself on a national general election campaign trail within a week or so? I know the public used to be warm to him back in the days when Have I Got News For You used to be popular but hasn't the general opinion on him cooled down?
The more the events of the last 24 hours start to set in with me, the more I realise what a shambles politics in our country is2 -
Everyone said that of Corbyn, that he'd be a disaster in an election campaign and be found out, whereas May was the safe pair of hands...hudson-son-son said:Surely Boris would absolutely embarrass himself on a national general election campaign trail within a week or so? I know the public used to be warm to him back in the days when Have I Got News For You used to be popular but hasn't the general opinion on him cooled down?
Boris's wins in London show that for all his faults in actually running things, he's got a track record of winning elections. By contrast, May looked incredibly uncomfortable campaigning, answering hostile questions and leading from the front5 - Sponsored links:
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Right now, Ruth Davidson would be the most likely leader to win the next election for the Tories. Thankfully, I don't think they are collectively smart enough to do what would be required to elect her.MuttleyCAFC said:
Ruth Davidson is a formadible politician that I would personally fear. Boris after an acrimonious battle to get May to go would be a gift from the gods. Whilst still popular with some, his brand is toxic with an increasing number of people. That and the inevitable cock ups and if the tories do this out of desperation they will be writing their suicide letter.cabbles said:
If he's the best they've got, and replaces May then what the hell has happened to leadership in this country. I mean I get I'm anti tory, but is that the best we've got and who we would want leading Brexit.hudson-son-son said:Surely Boris would absolutely embarrass himself on a national general election campaign trail within a week or so? I know the public used to be warm to him back in the days when Have I Got News For You used to be popular but hasn't the general opinion on him cooled down?
The more the events of the last 24 hours start to set in with me, the more I realise what a shambles politics in our country is1 -
Wherabouts in SoCal mate? I mean California is becoming a Socialist Utopia. There's even talk of a "Calexit" so...I mean the weather is fucking lovely. And the food. And the culture. And all the political turmoil you could get back home, and then some!DamoNorthStand said:
Er - well the weathers fecking amazing in so cal. And I can live on the beach...... And....Rob7Lee said:
She won't make the Christmas party....... suspect she'll stay to form a government but won't be leader by 2018.seth plum said:She intends to stay on.
This country is royally in a mess.......
@DamoNorthStand how's the job in America looking now?
Trump. Fuck.
So back to Blighty with a nice secure home in leafy Surrey........ and 9 months of May limping on until Jezza tries take 2 of turning us into a socialist nation with Diane Abbott back in the fold cos everyone will have forgotten what a liability she is by Autumn. Although with a Tory / DUP majority seemingly secure tax hikes will take a back seat for the time being. Unfortunately so will everything else that matters when running a country.
Democracy is great - but we voted for the Brexit mess and we are now voting in a massive division leaving ourselves with massive insecurity
New Zealand?!0 -
The Tories, led by a gay Scot? Would the Guilds allow it?2
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Don't even joke about a Jeremy Hunt leadership attempt!4
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So I'm eight hours behind (literally and figuratively) and just catching up.Fiiish said:
The numbers don't tell the whole story though.AFKABartram said:Will freely admit I'm neither educated nor particularly intelligent, so looking to take on board the views of others.
Where it comes to socialism, and the strapline 'for the many not the few' (which I think people massively bought into), isn't the fact that unemployment is at the lowest levels since 1975 not the best possible aspect of providing a platform and opportunities for all?
But Corbyn is far left and that is what rising numbers of people are apparently voting for, so why should they change?Super_Eddie_Youds said:
Agree.WSS said:The Labour party needs to get some centrist players into the fold.
How labour move forward from this is massive. No infighting and the centrist power players uniting under corbyn could see real force.
Unfortunately, the centrists turned their backs on corbyn during the repeated lynchings and I think this will not go unpunished.
The government fudges numbers by not counting certain people as unemployed.
A lot of these new jobs created are on subsistence wages that need to be topped up by in work benefits.
Wages are not keeping up with the cost of essentials such as rent, fuel, food etc.
If employers could pay everyone 5 pounds a day and people were forced into such jobs by government sanctions then unemployment would be wiped out but obviously that is not the way to live.
It is also of note that employment rates are higher where cost of living is higher and pockets of unemployment exist in areas with no jobs and no wealth creation, causing a poverty cycle .
I think this is a very important lesson. And I'd contrast it to @seth plum 's missus' sentiment about university fees turning out the youth vote. If we're treating 18-25 as the yoot, then half of them will be outside of the typical university age anyway. Perhaps debt forgiveness yes, but it's not just that simple.
As someone who graduated university in 2008, I can say that it feels like my generation (who I'd include in the 18-25 year olds) got a very bad deal. We've seen high unemployment numbers but more importantly, stagnant wages, as is outlined above. I have a lot of friends in Britain with good degrees who struggled for years to find anything beyond temp work. And with years of experience being important in most fields, that puts you back for a long time.
IF, and this is a big if, this is the beginning of a move toward more leftist politics (a lot of ifs here), it will be driven by a group of young people who believe that the economy is currently unfair, and that they have had to pay the price for the mistakes of others.7 -
Yes this deep dark element of the tory party is probably where I get my disdain from. I've had a chance to reflect since the result and I think I for one have been guilty of really egging on the 'tory scum' rhetoric. And actually, although it is because I'm passionate about politics and genuinely don't like them, I realise that many on here (good, hard working people) will vote for them, and I will actually curb it a bit from now on. I think that's a sensible approach. Hopefully this result will bring them down a peg or two (the tories, not those that vote for them), and help the country move forward.Red_in_SE8 said:
All caused by the the extremist element of the Tory party who forced Cameron to promise a Euro Regerendum to voters. If it wasn't for this selfish lunatic fringe of the Tory party who put their interests above the country we would now be entering the third year of Cameron's second term without having endured the strife, chaos and division of the past 12 months and and without having to prepare for at least another two years of strife, chaos and division.cabbles said:
If he's the best they've got, and replaces May then what the hell has happened to leadership in this country. I mean I get I'm anti tory, but is that the best we've got and who we would want leading Brexit.hudson-son-son said:Surely Boris would absolutely embarrass himself on a national general election campaign trail within a week or so? I know the public used to be warm to him back in the days when Have I Got News For You used to be popular but hasn't the general opinion on him cooled down?
The more the events of the last 24 hours start to set in with me, the more I realise what a shambles politics in our country is
Surely people see he's all style (in a weird way) and no substance.MuttleyCAFC said:
Ruth Davidson is a formadible politician that I would personally fear. Boris after an acrimonious battle to get May to go would be a gift from the gods. Whilst still popular with some, his brand is toxic with an increasing number of people. That and the inevitable cock ups and if the tories do this out of desperation they will be writing their suicide letter.cabbles said:
If he's the best they've got, and replaces May then what the hell has happened to leadership in this country. I mean I get I'm anti tory, but is that the best we've got and who we would want leading Brexit.hudson-son-son said:Surely Boris would absolutely embarrass himself on a national general election campaign trail within a week or so? I know the public used to be warm to him back in the days when Have I Got News For You used to be popular but hasn't the general opinion on him cooled down?
The more the events of the last 24 hours start to set in with me, the more I realise what a shambles politics in our country is0 -
She's not currently an MP though, only an MSP.Chizz said:
Right now, Ruth Davidson would be the most likely leader to win the next election for the Tories. Thankfully, I don't think they are collectively smart enough to do what would be required to elect her.MuttleyCAFC said:
Ruth Davidson is a formadible politician that I would personally fear. Boris after an acrimonious battle to get May to go would be a gift from the gods. Whilst still popular with some, his brand is toxic with an increasing number of people. That and the inevitable cock ups and if the tories do this out of desperation they will be writing their suicide letter.cabbles said:
If he's the best they've got, and replaces May then what the hell has happened to leadership in this country. I mean I get I'm anti tory, but is that the best we've got and who we would want leading Brexit.hudson-son-son said:Surely Boris would absolutely embarrass himself on a national general election campaign trail within a week or so? I know the public used to be warm to him back in the days when Have I Got News For You used to be popular but hasn't the general opinion on him cooled down?
The more the events of the last 24 hours start to set in with me, the more I realise what a shambles politics in our country is0 -
He's probably trying to decide between leading the Tory party and privatising it.Friend Or Defoe said:Don't even joke about a Jeremy Hunt leadership attempt!
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Have labour organised an open top bus to celebrate coming runners up yet?6
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