Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.
The Takeover Thread - Duchatelet Finally Sells (Jan 2020)
Comments
-
I think it would add some clarity to your messages.JamesSeed said:
Any particular reason you’re asking?carly burn said:James. If you don't mind me asking. How do you know GM and how long have you known him for?
2 -
I wish they would hurry up and we can all get on with slagging off the new lot!9
-
Really? There’s almost nothing in the messages. Can’t see it helping at all if I’m honest.carly burn said:
I think it would add some clarity to your messages.JamesSeed said:
Any particular reason you’re asking?carly burn said:James. If you don't mind me asking. How do you know GM and how long have you known him for?
0 -
People are holding onto a lot of what you say and have suggested you are withholding information, which in my opinion is no problem.(witholding info that is)JamesSeed said:
Really? There’s almost nothing in the messages. Can’t see it helping at all if I’m honest.carly burn said:
I think it would add some clarity to your messages.JamesSeed said:
Any particular reason you’re asking?carly burn said:James. If you don't mind me asking. How do you know GM and how long have you known him for?
I'd just like to know if you've met him once or twice through an acquaintance and had a brief conversation or you've known him for years and are life long friends?2 -
I think you're closer to the mark than you may actually realise there Soapssoapy_jones said:I wish they would hurry up and we can all get on with slagging off the new lot!
0 -
Since when has Colin Sams been a reliable source? . I’ll answer that for you - Never_MrDick said:My reliable source tells me that ‘RD finally looking to lower price or adjusting the agreement to get the deal done he is desperate to sell the club
First sign of flexibility?’1 -
Summary 28.08.18ShootersHillGuru said:There is no sale as such is there ?
It’s just a case of the Aussies having completed their due diligence putting an offer on the table and being prepared to wait until it’s accepted or ultimately rejected. Until that point they are completely comfortable with it being on the table. Hence the delay.
"It’s just a case of the Aussies having completed their due diligence putting an offer on the table and being prepared to wait until it’s accepted or ultimately rejected. Until that point they are completely comfortable with it being on the table. Hence the delay."
That's pretty much what it has been for some time, it seems. At least since May when the Aussies met face to face with Roland at the Valley and the rumours suggested the Aussies offering a lower price.
Like any deal it's not done until it's done; the price agreed by both sides and contracts signed.
It has suited the regime to say that the price was agreed and that it was all down to EFL paperwork because that shifted the blame for the delay on the EFL and the Aussies. The Aussies won't speak because of the NDA, and perhaps because they still haven't completed their consortium, but the EFL are believed to be annoyed that they are being drawn into all of this, hence their sudden interest in speaking to Charlton and CAST. Two different parties are now reporting that the Aussies have completed the EFL fit and proper test with no outstanding issues.
But to summarise Grapevine, Duchatalet is asking for more than all the potential buyers, so far, are willing to pay so all delays are down to him. Read more here http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/comment/3304777#Comment_3304777
Any commodity is only ever worth what a buyer is willing to pay. No more, no less.
The Daily Mail is reporting that both the Aussies and the other, third, "Bromley Contingent" group, are both willing to pay "only"£25m. Both have completed due diligence, at least according to the unreliable LDV, the regime's beancounter.
Duchatelet can carry on waiting for them to either up their bids or hope for another party to appear (the publicity shy British group perhaps) who will cough up £35m. But so far no one has done that and various other parties have walked away after looking at the books.
The suggestion that it is overheads such as cleaners' hours or the cost of bottled water were what was putting off buyers rather than the £10m gap in valuations is laughable. In any case, any sensible buyer would want to make their own changes to expenditure and budgets and not leave it to an incompetent seller.
The £7m of debentures from the old directors remain unresolved according to @Davidsmith the offer for 25p in the £ from Duchatelet having been rejected. The bonds could be rolled over but that would leave the new owners in a difficult position if they want to issue new leases or borrow against the assets, which is common practice.
The perceived value of the club will have only declined after missing out on promotion and the sale of players while crowds drop and income reduces. The recommencement of the protests, (and the £100ks of publicity garnered for the price a few hundred crisp packets), the withheld bonuses, the writ from Footscray Rugby Club combined with other local traders who have been "knocked" by Charlton in a desperate attempt to avoid expenditure all point to a club in disarray with only more to come. The staff bonuses issue doesn't look like it is going to go away.
Meanwhile, the Roland Out Today (ROT) party are taking the fight to Belgium by putting up a candidate in the October local elections in St Truiden.
Any potential buyer will smell the weakness and stand their ground on the price knowing that Duchatelet continues to lose up to £1m a month.
Meanwhile Tony Keohane another senior manager at the Valley HR head Lungi Macebo are both reportedly overseas on holiday. During the season, at the same time while Rome burns! At least Lungi's company car hasn't been removed as part of the cost cutting.
Lee Bowyer is still a caretaker manager and Charlton have not paid a fee for a player this season despite losing 15 players and selling Konsa and Magennis for fees. As the end of the transfer window approaches the reinforcements that Bowyer badly needs are still yet to sign and the team are 14th in league 1
over to you admin @AFKABartram36 -
how very true !soapy_jones said:I wish they would hurry up and we can all get on with slagging off the new lot!
0 -
Presumably the saleable value of CAFC is diminishing to the point where, if the Aussie bid remains the same, it will be acceptable to Roland. Unless of course the Aussies reduce their offer in line with the reduction in the saleable value.ShootersHillGuru said:There is no sale as such is there ?
It’s just a case of the Aussies having completed their due diligence putting an offer on the table and being prepared to wait until it’s accepted or ultimately rejected. Until that point they are completely comfortable with it being on the table. Hence the delay.0 -
He told us this a long time ago. Their children went to the same school and they, and their partners became friends some time ago.carly burn said:
People are holding onto a lot of what you say and have suggested you are withholding information, which in my opinion is no problem.(witholding info that is)JamesSeed said:
Really? There’s almost nothing in the messages. Can’t see it helping at all if I’m honest.carly burn said:
I think it would add some clarity to your messages.JamesSeed said:
Any particular reason you’re asking?carly burn said:James. If you don't mind me asking. How do you know GM and how long have you known him for?
I'd just like to know if you've met him once or twice through an acquaintance and had a brief conversation or you've known him for years and are life long friends?
Not really sure why it matters.13 - Sponsored links:
-
Careful that could be personal information.......... ;-)Henry Irving said:
He told us this a long time ago. Their children went to the same school and they, and their partners became friends some time ago.carly burn said:
People are holding onto a lot of what you say and have suggested you are withholding information, which in my opinion is no problem.(witholding info that is)JamesSeed said:
Really? There’s almost nothing in the messages. Can’t see it helping at all if I’m honest.carly burn said:
I think it would add some clarity to your messages.JamesSeed said:
Any particular reason you’re asking?carly burn said:James. If you don't mind me asking. How do you know GM and how long have you known him for?
I'd just like to know if you've met him once or twice through an acquaintance and had a brief conversation or you've known him for years and are life long friends?
Not really sure why it matters.5 -
Somewhere in between, as it happens. The info is already out there.carly burn said:
People are holding onto a lot of what you say and have suggested you are withholding information, which in my opinion is no problem.(witholding info that is)JamesSeed said:
Really? There’s almost nothing in the messages. Can’t see it helping at all if I’m honest.carly burn said:
I think it would add some clarity to your messages.JamesSeed said:
Any particular reason you’re asking?carly burn said:James. If you don't mind me asking. How do you know GM and how long have you known him for?
I'd just like to know if you've met him once or twice through an acquaintance and had a brief conversation or you've known him for years and are life long friends?
I got in a pickle about the family info being released by Colin. Should have ignored it, I accept. I then spelled out the facts in order to avoid speculation, which in my experience leads to the wrong conclusions being drawn. I got even more pelters for that, but no big deal, as my info added very little to the Colin info, and speculation stopped as a result.
Received a text today. It said ‘how are you? And it mentioned seeing the Daily Mail article.
But that’s it from me.
Jim (Millwall fan 1964-66 only ;-))11 -
Thanks. Couldn't be bothered to trail through the shit on this thread.Henry Irving said:
He told us this a long time ago. Their children went to the same school and they, and their partners became friends some time ago.carly burn said:
People are holding onto a lot of what you say and have suggested you are withholding information, which in my opinion is no problem.(witholding info that is)JamesSeed said:
Really? There’s almost nothing in the messages. Can’t see it helping at all if I’m honest.carly burn said:
I think it would add some clarity to your messages.JamesSeed said:
Any particular reason you’re asking?carly burn said:James. If you don't mind me asking. How do you know GM and how long have you known him for?
I'd just like to know if you've met him once or twice through an acquaintance and had a brief conversation or you've known him for years and are life long friends?
Not really sure why it matters.
That's fine and all very credible. I think it's relevant.2 -
Perhaps I am too negative, or paranoid. But on the principle that you can fool all the people some of the time I have been moved to lump all takeover gossip, 'knowledge', deadlines, comments, due diligence EFL stuff and so on as basically us being played, all the people being fooled. But as that saying goes, some of the time not all of the time. We now seem to have reached the stage where all of the playing and obfuscation is unravelling, and what we are left with is no takeover and Roland forever.2
-
Bloody glory hunters...JamesSeed said:
Somewhere in between, as it happens. The info is already out there.carly burn said:
People are holding onto a lot of what you say and have suggested you are withholding information, which in my opinion is no problem.(witholding info that is)JamesSeed said:
Really? There’s almost nothing in the messages. Can’t see it helping at all if I’m honest.carly burn said:
I think it would add some clarity to your messages.JamesSeed said:
Any particular reason you’re asking?carly burn said:James. If you don't mind me asking. How do you know GM and how long have you known him for?
I'd just like to know if you've met him once or twice through an acquaintance and had a brief conversation or you've known him for years and are life long friends?
I got in a pickle about the family info being released by Colin. Should have ignored it, I accept. I then spelled out the facts in order to avoid speculation, which in my experience leads to the wrong conclusions being drawn. I got even more pelters for that, but no big deal, as my info added very little to the Colin info, and speculation stopped as a result.
Received a text today. It said ‘how are you? And it mentioned seeing the Daily Mail article.
But that’s it from me.
Jim (Millwall fan 1964-66 only ;-))8 -
I used to go down Millwall every so often in the mid nineties with a mate who was a fan. Think that says more about the company I keep than whether I am 'Propper Charlton' though!0
-
OK, with page 1234 now dead and buried, the next great marker must be page 2345, so only another 1104 pages left to go then. Must be nailed on for that page !!
Or maybe we'll all just still be here waiting for news.0 -
I can help with that!
Mark West49 could you highlight which of my statements supported your opinion?
I did add some non specific supposition but most is based on 40yrs professional personal experience (PPE) in Corporate Finance & Business Engineering.
I tried to add context to the generally accepted information others have put in the public domain. Does it favour the Australians? Only to the extent a) I tried to bring clarity to certain expectations which have given rise to some excessive "allegations" b) they seem to be the one group currently in a position to remove the current regime.
Which specifics do you challenge?
There is one party responsible for the current fiasco. The responsibility starts & stops with the beneficial owner with rudderless infrastructure, divisive culture, alienated thousands, and catastrophic failure to empower the clubhouse. True or False?
After this stewardship any new people will need to put considerably more than £40mn at risk. True or False?
Some wish to vilify a group who appear to be prepared to pay an exorbitant fee for the man to go away and take on the challenge. True or False?
Any interested party is free to bid what they are prepared to pay. The object of the exercise is to win the bid. True or False?
The EFL sought clarification of the original submission by the club in respect of the Australian takeover? People have advised the EFL have sanctioned the Australian consortium? True or False?
...the delayed EFL sanction in certifying the Australians has changed the dynamic of the deal. It strengthened the Australian negotiating position.
Passing the ODT means investors financial interests/ standing are known by the EFL. It strengthens their negotiating position re "ANY" future submissions. True or False?
A takeover involving multiple issues has evolved into a protracted transaction. True or False?
Such transactions do not move in a straight line. They are an ever changing iterative process. The value of every trading entity is ever changing. - Personal Professional Experience (PPE) - True or False?
The value of "the club" today is not what it was when negotiations began.
True or False?
Australians are legally prevented from a public platform in this matter. Any attempt to talk to any interested party be they fans or ex directors, unless approved by the club will breach the NDA, with prejudice. - PPE - True or False?
To deliver a 5yr plan you secure the full funding before stepping through the door. Chasing finance to deliver any project is fraught with problems. - PPE True or False?
Lack of working capital is precisely why Chappell, Murray, Slater & Jimenez failed and why the training ground work has stalled. True or False?
The delay is frustrating but like it or not in truth the now EFL certified Australians need do nothing. They are established in pole position. For now they need only respond to developments.
From a negotiating perspective why should the Aussies move now?
They appear confident nobody will match their offer. With the inflated price, club modus operandi and current turmoil who could argue with such confidence? True or False?
Operationally there is now no burning need for any buyer to close any deal before the end of October. No one can meaningfully impact any clubs fortunes until the January window. True or False?
In the meantime Duchatelet will continue to incur losses. True or False?
The turmoil of this week revealing his scorched earth policies will reinforce their negotiating position. True or False?
Due diligence will have identified the powers granted to ex directors in respect of club assets. True or False?
A recent Fans Forum advised despite EFL sanction further paperwork may be required and ex director loans are not a problem. True or False?
Executives rarely flat out lie but they often however revel in half truths. - PPE
Why would any investors, prepared to fund perhaps over £100mn, cede control of assets to a group whose outstanding liability is circa £7mn? Do you have an answer?
The debentures are not their problem. The Australians have no authority to act. True or False?
Duchatelet needed to address them on acquiring the club. Such oversight may have positioned his acquisition ahead of others. The debentures remain his problem to resolve. True or False?
Ultimately the overall debt/ price may indeed still be a bridge too far. True or False?
Absolutely none of this is exclusive. At any time any other party be they Saudi, British or anything else could have stepped in. True or False?
Those in charge of the business are responsible for how the business is run whether it is for sale or not. True or False?
Pursuing a scorched earth policy in such circumstances undermines the very business you are trying to sell. True or False?
This continued campaign of deflection serves to excuse a failed administration....deflection defines this administration. Be it other clubs, the EFL, the industry, the Royal Mail, coaches, fans, college students, social media, the media, the fans, CARD, WAR, ROT, players or staff everybody else is to blame. Today it is the Australians. Tomorrow it will be somebody else.
Do you challenge this assertion?
If the price does drop who would likely be best positioned to move? The Australians. True or False?
The current situation is damaging because of the way the club is being run. It is for this ownership to manage - no one else. True or False?
Yesterday saw no owner, no CEO, no CFO, no COO, no Director, no senior management, no permanent senior football management, a senior squad still not fit for purpose, in a stadium in reality nearly 4/5ths empty, with a divided fan base. True or False?
I made two suppositions.
Had the Australians met the full EFL criteria at the outset I suspect the deal would have been done. Hence the over confident appearance of consortium members on match days.
That the EFL requirements may have had any number of stipulations requiring certain parties to complete time consuming divestment of other interests or provide legal clarifications will have caused delays.
I have not asserted I have any knowledge beyond my experience in the field of acquisitions, joint ventures and building new businesses in the UK & USA and laid those templates against the information posted to this site.
In the absence of real fact people get frustrated often lashing out at all and sundry (as we have seen here and on separate forums.) I have sought to add some perspective.
You are entitled to your opinion but I neither deal in personalities or agenda nor do I apologise for making a professional evaluation on the current status of the club and who is responsible for that status.
I will add one personal comment. I spent 20yrs with senior status clubs at the bottom rung of the semi professional game. There will not have been one club in operating five rungs lower playing on Saturday who will have had less senior representation at their fixture than Charlton Athletic.
It was an insult to the club, the staff, the players, the fans, the EFL and the industry.
That has nothing to do with the Australians either
48 -
Grapevine is quoting himself.
Grape-ception....7 -
Hell yeah Grapevine!
5 - Sponsored links:
-
It’s gone meta0
-
Exactly.Ross said:
Bloody glory hunters...JamesSeed said:
Somewhere in between, as it happens. The info is already out there.carly burn said:
People are holding onto a lot of what you say and have suggested you are withholding information, which in my opinion is no problem.(witholding info that is)JamesSeed said:
Really? There’s almost nothing in the messages. Can’t see it helping at all if I’m honest.carly burn said:
I think it would add some clarity to your messages.JamesSeed said:
Any particular reason you’re asking?carly burn said:James. If you don't mind me asking. How do you know GM and how long have you known him for?
I'd just like to know if you've met him once or twice through an acquaintance and had a brief conversation or you've known him for years and are life long friends?
I got in a pickle about the family info being released by Colin. Should have ignored it, I accept. I then spelled out the facts in order to avoid speculation, which in my experience leads to the wrong conclusions being drawn. I got even more pelters for that, but no big deal, as my info added very little to the Colin info, and speculation stopped as a result.
Received a text today. It said ‘how are you? And it mentioned seeing the Daily Mail article.
But that’s it from me.
Jim (Millwall fan 1964-66 only ;-))
As soon as they lost the Huddersfield like unbeaten home record off he popped!
https://www.millwallfc.co.uk/news/2016/may/unbeaten-league-record/0 -
4
-
Almost on a par with this mic drop Grapevine ;
1 -
I was actually at the game where they finally lost at home. It was before they played Spurs at home in the cup from memory.LenGlover said:
Exactly.Ross said:
Bloody glory hunters...JamesSeed said:
Somewhere in between, as it happens. The info is already out there.carly burn said:
People are holding onto a lot of what you say and have suggested you are withholding information, which in my opinion is no problem.(witholding info that is)JamesSeed said:
Really? There’s almost nothing in the messages. Can’t see it helping at all if I’m honest.carly burn said:
I think it would add some clarity to your messages.JamesSeed said:
Any particular reason you’re asking?carly burn said:James. If you don't mind me asking. How do you know GM and how long have you known him for?
I'd just like to know if you've met him once or twice through an acquaintance and had a brief conversation or you've known him for years and are life long friends?
I got in a pickle about the family info being released by Colin. Should have ignored it, I accept. I then spelled out the facts in order to avoid speculation, which in my experience leads to the wrong conclusions being drawn. I got even more pelters for that, but no big deal, as my info added very little to the Colin info, and speculation stopped as a result.
Received a text today. It said ‘how are you? And it mentioned seeing the Daily Mail article.
But that’s it from me.
Jim (Millwall fan 1964-66 only ;-))
As soon as they lost the Huddersfield like unbeaten home record off he popped!
https://www.millwallfc.co.uk/news/2016/may/unbeaten-league-record/
Terrible, I can hardly remember anything about matches from last season, but I remember that. Maybe I really am a spanner?2 -
"JamesSeed"
Does anybody like you?
Do you care?7 -
Thank you @stig That's much appreciatedStig said:@JamesSeed, I can't help but think that if you'd not made an issue of it, @shirty5's comment would probably have been lost to most of us; just another one of 37,000 comments on this thread. Instead something that would have passed most of us by (something and nothing in my opinion, but obviously not yours) has just become the major issue on the site this morning and everyone's attention has been drawn to it. And yes, calling people numbskulls is not acceptable.
I'd like to make two suggestions:
1. If you want something deleted then please pm me and/or the other mods. To use Big Rob's phrase, we'll look into it. In this case I don't think I'd have personally done anything, because I genuinely don't see why it's an issue and it's already elsewhere in the public domain anyway. But ultimately, you only have to convince one mod and you may have had more luck with one of the others.
2. If you, @shirty5, @ElfsborgAddick or anyone else can't see eye to eye, can I suggest that you ignore each other rather than getting into petty squabbles*. Frankly, I've got better things to do with my bank holiday than try to manage other people's arguments.
Thank you.
*[Edit - please note, I am not accusing Shirty or Elfs of squabbling, apologies if my initial wording led anybody to think that]2 -
Oh good God! I go away for the weekend, return to 21 pages of unread posts on this thread alone, and still there's no real news about the takeover. If the following posting ever has reality it will surely be because the media pressure has just got too much.
Well, I have news for you, Roland._MrDick said:My reliable source tells me that ‘RD finally looking to lower price or adjusting the agreement to get the deal done he is desperate to sell the club
First sign of flexibility?’
Your media exposure in Belgium is likely to be a whole lot more uncomfortable before long...
Source? A large yellow, blue and red "fly on the wall".13 -
.0
-
https://www.millwallfc.co.uk/news/2016/may/unbeaten-league-record/
I was actually at the game where they finally lost at home. It was before they played Spurs at home in the cup from memory.
Terrible, I can hardly remember anything about matches from last season, but I remember that. Maybe I really am a spanner?
Quote thing didn't work properly
I think that was the same day as my first away game to the Glaziers0
This discussion has been closed.
