Just finished it, thought the first series was better (apart from the end).
My favourite bit until the last episode was Donald losing the plot on transfer deadline day and going from £1.25M to £3M rising to £4M on Will Grigg in a matter of minutes. Bet Wigan couldn’t accept that one fast enough!
I’m kind of confused by the Maja situation, how did he sign for Bordeaux without them knowing? He was still under contract with Sunderland at the time, did I miss the bit where they actually accepted an offer for him?
What I thought happened was that the club found out from the media that Maja had refused a contract extension and were understandably a bit peeved that they heard the news from Sky rather than from the player or his agent. When you have six months or less on your contract you are free to talk
to other clubs, his agent deliberately ran the clock down in the run-up the transfer
window opening and was then free to start negotiating.
Right, you can talk to other clubs with six months left on your deal, you can’t bloody sign for them without your current club accepting an offer. They seemed to make out that they woke up one day and Maja had signed for Bordeaux without them knowing - that can’t possibly be true.
Agree with you there. It was an important part of the documentary and they simply didn't provide all the facts. Actually looked deliberately muddled. Credit has to be given to Wigan regarding the negotiating for Grigg, they held their nerve and got a fantastic deal for themselves.
Just finished it, thought the first series was better (apart from the end).
My favourite bit until the last episode was Donald losing the plot on transfer deadline day and going from £1.25M to £3M rising to £4M on Will Grigg in a matter of minutes. Bet Wigan couldn’t accept that one fast enough!
I’m kind of confused by the Maja situation, how did he sign for Bordeaux without them knowing? He was still under contract with Sunderland at the time, did I miss the bit where they actually accepted an offer for him?
What I thought happened was that the club found out from the media that Maja had refused a contract extension and were understandably a bit peeved that they heard the news from Sky rather than from the player or his agent. When you have six months or less on your contract you are free to talk
to other clubs, his agent deliberately ran the clock down in the run-up the transfer
window opening and was then free to start negotiating.
Right, you can talk to other clubs with six months left on your deal, you can’t bloody sign for them without your current club accepting an offer. They seemed to make out that they woke up one day and Maja had signed for Bordeaux without them knowing - that can’t possibly be true.
Agree with you there. It was an important part of the documentary and they simply didn't provide all the facts. Actually looked deliberately muddled. Credit has to be given to Wigan regarding the negotiating for Grigg, they held their nerve and got a fantastic deal for themselves.
I hope they paid a massive commission to the guy who came up with the “Will Grigg’s on fire...” song. About 98% of his transfer fee is because of that bloody song.
Just finished it, thought the first series was better (apart from the end).
My favourite bit until the last episode was Donald losing the plot on transfer deadline day and going from £1.25M to £3M rising to £4M on Will Grigg in a matter of minutes. Bet Wigan couldn’t accept that one fast enough!
I’m kind of confused by the Maja situation, how did he sign for Bordeaux without them knowing? He was still under contract with Sunderland at the time, did I miss the bit where they actually accepted an offer for him?
What I thought happened was that the club found out from the media that Maja had refused a contract extension and were understandably a bit peeved that they heard the news from Sky rather than from the player or his agent. When you have six months or less on your contract you are free to talk
to other clubs, his agent deliberately ran the clock down in the run-up the transfer
window opening and was then free to start negotiating.
Right, you can talk to other clubs with six months left on your deal, you can’t bloody sign for them without your current club accepting an offer. They seemed to make out that they woke up one day and Maja had signed for Bordeaux without them knowing - that can’t possibly be true.
Agree with you there. It was an important part of the documentary and they simply didn't provide all the facts. Actually looked deliberately muddled. Credit has to be given to Wigan regarding the negotiating for Grigg, they held their nerve and got a fantastic deal for themselves.
I hope they paid a massive commission to the guy who came up with the “Will Grigg’s on fire...” song. About 98% of his transfer fee is because of that bloody song.
Just tried E2. Very pleased no Charlton defeat in this episode but otherwise very dull. The first series focused on the relationship with the fans but this is just a puff piece for the new owners.
This second season was the equivalent of Fury v Wilder 3. A contractual obligation that nobody wanted. Ross insisted on no dressing room access and clearly only participated himself to the minimum amount possible under duress. Player access was minimal and limited essentially to the photogenic and articulate young O’Nions who was a safe option unlike the assorted nutters/disaffected (McGeady, Gibson, Rodwell and, with apologies, Williams) of the first series. Without the checkatrade and playoff stories there would have been little to fill out the otherwise scant six episodes. By limiting it to six the whole thing felt rushed and superficial. The only things that made this watchable was Methven and his Brent-like performance with an honourable mention to Mrs Donald who's altered appearance certainly showed that Grigg was not the first example of her hubby’s millions being unfortunately spunked. Mutton and lamb or some such phraseology springs to mind. Nice fans. Even their stories were not properly developed.
Just tried E2. Very pleased no Charlton defeat in this episode but otherwise very dull. The first series focused on the relationship with the fans but this is just a puff piece for the new owners.
Might skip to last episode.
There was more drama in S1 too, even relatively small things like the CEO trying to get Rodwell out the door to save the insane wages was interesting.
Watched all episodes, it’s not as good as the first series, even with our inclusion.
That Charlie guy is a complete twat, either he’s on some Charlie himself or he really is a prick. The Irish girl, think after the way he spoke to her pitch side would’ve made anyone walk. No one deserves that. Glad he has been shown to the whole nation who he is and what he’s like. Lots will turn on him now.
Just watched it myself.
Charlie is an arrogant prick, but that speech at the start of episode one, well that was bang on.
It seemed like they had someone clever at that point and slid downhill from there.
Thought it was quite entertaining that they started well with a ton of injuries and got worse as their team got fitter.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing and the whole series is viewed from the first minute through the lens of failure.
Donald and Charlie set a rod for their own backs the day they arrived with the whole “it’s your club” (sound familiar?) “we will be transparent” and “we will only be here until we are no longer wanted” patter.
If Methven’s claim is true that they have turned the club debt to break even in one season, then actually, that is considerable success, particularly in the context of a football club. But of course, football is no normal business and success is measured on the field. Had they kept Maja to fire them to promotion, then Donald and Charlie would be like demi-gods in the eyes of the fans. The documentary is by no means transparent on this issue and the Mackems should rightly be aggrieved.
The fans agony in both series were tangible for all us real football fans but the first series was a far more enjoyable watch as it gave a greater insight to the footballing side of things. Some players were thoroughly detestable and others like our Johnny were relatably vulnerable.
Other than the teary Jack Baldwin (who in my opinion Ross hung out to dry) in ep 6, series 2 missed a real opportunity to explore the contrast and subsequent burden of big club expectation and lower league player capability.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing and the whole series is viewed from the first minute through the lens of failure.
Donald and Charlie set a rod for their own backs the day they arrived with the whole “it’s your club” (sound familiar?) “we will be transparent” and “we will only be here until we are no longer wanted” patter.
If Methven’s claim is true that they have turned the club debt to break even in one season, then actually, that is considerable success, particularly in the context of a football club. But of course, football is no normal business and success is measured on the field. Had they kept Maja to fire them to promotion, then Donald and Charlie would be like demi-gods in the eyes of the fans. The documentary is by no means transparent on this issue and the Mackems should rightly be aggrieved.
The fans agony in both series were tangible for all us real football fans but the first series was a far more enjoyable watch as it gave a greater insight to the footballing side of things. Some players were thoroughly detestable and others like our Johnny were relatably vulnerable.
Other than the teary Jack Baldwin (who in my opinion Ross hung out to dry) in ep 6, series 2 missed a real opportunity to explore the contrast and subsequent burden of big club expectation and lower league player capability.
I have grave doubts that Methven was being truthful when he said that about the club now operating at break-even - there seems no way for them to slash their costs from 45 million PA to anywhere near the 15 million PA revenue they get in League One.
They only had a couple of big earners left at that point (Ovideo, McGeady, Cattermole) so even by losing them they are not going to get close to cutting 30 million in costs out of the business - even if they do get rid of the Cryogenic chamber!
Methinks this may be some 'come hither' talk to entice a new buyer, remembering, of course, that is what these guys desperately want to do so they can cash out at a profit.
Of course, as you say, the real problem is that if you DO slash playing staff costs then that's actually counter-productive because - barring a miracle - you now have even less chance of getting out of the division.
Jesus, I must be one of the only ones who couldn't give a flying about Sunderland fans emotions or feelings.
Honestly spared no thought for them on the day, the days after or even watching Netflix doc.
Wouldn't wish any harm on them obviously but we've had enough dissapointment ourselves to let another teams feelings get in my head
Is what it is.
I dont gush over Sunderland fans. Had plenty of snarky comments from them as me and my gf turned up to Wembley early to collect tickets and had to wade through hordes of them to get the side of Wembley where the Charlton fans were.
Dont wish any ill on them, but we got double relegated and had plenty of nonsense happen to us since then and no ones falling over themselves to make a high budget docu about it.
Just watched Series 1 Episode 1. Couldn't believe how fired up the fans were for a pre-season friendly and as a consequence how badly they took the defeat. Those fans can be as much a hindrance as a help.
Is that the episode where Darron Gibson gets filmed slagging off teammates for not caring enough when he’s completely off his face in some pub?
The question this thread leaves me pondering is: Should Netflix be programmed to prevent people from watching more than one episode from the same series in any 24 hour period? Otherwise it's not really in the spirit of a series, is it? Can you imagine if people had watched all episodes of the second series of Fawlty Towers, or the seventh series of OF&H, in one go?
It is the way people watch programmes now isn't it? I must admit, I did binge this with my son, but I am not normally a binger like many of the younger generation are. I prefer to watch the channels and moan about the crap they put on! You've been bloody framed again!
The question this thread leaves me pondering is: Should Netflix be programmed to prevent people from watching more than one episode from the same series in any 24 hour period? Otherwise it's not really in the spirit of a series, is it? Can you imagine if people had watched all episodes of the second series of Fawlty Towers, or the seventh series of OF&H, in one go?
Charlie is just a bully worked for a few in my time. No idea how to lift a demotivated staff who had gone through years of being shat upon by management. In one episode he complains about them not coming up with ideas, but in another when they start talking about an idea he says let's get back to my idea.
The question this thread leaves me pondering is: Should Netflix be programmed to prevent people from watching more than one episode from the same series in any 24 hour period? Otherwise it's not really in the spirit of a series, is it? Can you imagine if people had watched all episodes of the second series of Fawlty Towers, or the seventh series of OF&H, in one go?
Charlie is just a bully worked for a few in my time. No idea how to lift a demotivated staff who had gone through years of being shat upon by management. In one episode he complains about them not coming up with ideas, but in another when they start talking about an idea he says let's get back to my idea.
And all the swearing is just attention seeking!
Spot on, I noticed that bit as well.
"Let's hear your ideas......then let's use mine anyway."
I get that the reason this got made is because the producers are Sunderland fans so it was easy to pitch to Netflix, but I think whats happened at Charlton over the last couple of years, (and probably since 2007!) would make for a far more entertaining docu. Not just for Charlton fans but football fans in general.
Sundland got double relegated and got sold a couple of times, thats not that unusual these days?
I suppose if you look at the situation when season one was commissioned then I imagine it was sold to Netflix as a completely different proposition
Sunderland would have been a typical Premier League club and bet they thought they'd be filming a Premier League season, instead they turned into a Championship side with Netflix still thinking: "Great its going to be a season challenging for promotion", instead it probably worked out better for them that Sunderland got into trouble because it allowed them to show a Football club at the complete opposite end of the spectrum to the Man City / Amazon documentary
Of course last season they must have thought that Sunderland would be sure to be in a promotion fight (which they were) and almost got their fairytale ending only for it to end in disaster again
Bet that was a factor behind there being no season three for this year as they've not been filming yet it appears its not something that has been completely cancelled as the producers hope to have a successful ending
As I said to my Dad last night on the phone, this is the trouble with these Documentaries, they can have all the hopes in the world but Football is without doubt no script!! - In a way you have to look at Charlton in a normal season, yes we've had our troubles which are obvious to see but each summer its not obvious that they'll happen (we certainly didnt see this mess happening back in August), take that away and we're pretty much the same as Sunderland e.g. a bang average team each with our own troubles... Sunderland just got lucky with the timing of their issues.
The Fleetwood documentary would be interesting to watch (if it gets released) as their season was pretty uneventful, but then again, everyone would watch simply because of the Joey Barton incident @ Barnsley
What happened?
Barton apparently assaulted the Barnsley Manager in the tunnel after the game
Charlie is just a bully worked for a few in my time. No idea how to lift a demotivated staff who had gone through years of being shat upon by management. In one episode he complains about them not coming up with ideas, but in another when they start talking about an idea he says let's get back to my idea.
And all the swearing is just attention seeking!
Spot on, I noticed that bit as well.
"Let's hear your ideas......then let's use mine anyway."
I finally got around to finishing the series this week. Although interesting and entertaining, I thought it was not nearly as compelling as Season 1, notwithstanding the marvellous finale. It felt concertinaed into six episodes, superficial in parts and I believe it was a mistake to devote a whole episode to the Checkatrade Cup. For me, there was not enough emphasis on how their their league season evolved.
As other have said, Charlie Methven is an unpleasant individual, whose Old Etonian background, overblown self-confidence and cliche-ridden bluster have somehow seen him achieve well beyond his capabilities. He was bloody rude to staff and an arrogant bully. The young Irish lady clearly had his number, as did the rest of the staff. Good management is about getting the best out of your people and he didn't have a clue. How could anyone respect and follow such a man ? As @Sage observed, Lyle Taylor - who talked to Sunderland before joining us - would have sussed him out in a couple of minutes.
I felt sorry for Stewart Donald and he totally fell apart during the Will Grigg negotiations. He seems a decent guy but it’s another example of someone acquiring a club without having the financial resources to sustain it. His wife talked a lot of sense to him. He inherited a difficult situation but at least Ellis Short had the decency to write off the £152million debt owed to him (unlike Roland). Some stupid decisions had clearly been made under the previous regime, including the Martin Bain memorial cryogenic chamber. Incidentally, I see that the club had to pay Bain £1.1million to get rid of him.
The loss of Maja was a major turning point. Why on earth didn’t they keep him until the end of the season ? To flog him for Euro 1.5 million was incredibly stupid and short-sighted, especially as there was an identity of interest between the club and Maja in him performing well during the second half of the season.
Sunderland are a great set of supporters - as well we know from our epic Wembley encounters with them. They all come across as thoroughly decent people and I particularly liked the two old ladies interviewed before the injury time defeat at Fleetwood - “I’ve got no faith in them. They're not good enough.” Their objectivity was in stark contrast to the cock-eyed optimism of the kit man.
On a different note, while the current season feels a bit irrelevant in the context of what’s happening in the world, it was a pity about McGeady’s lack of fitness when he came to us, as he can certainly play.
I finally got around to finishing the series this week. Although interesting and entertaining, I thought it was not nearly as compelling as Season 1, notwithstanding the marvellous finale. It felt concertinaed into six episodes, superficial in parts and I believe it was a mistake to devote a whole episode to the Checkatrade Cup. For me, there was not enough emphasis on how their their league season evolved.
As other have said, Charlie Methven is an unpleasant individual, whose Old Etonian background, overblown self-confidence and cliche-ridden bluster have somehow seen him achieve well beyond his capabilities. He was bloody rude to staff and an arrogant bully. The young Irish lady clearly had his number, as did the rest of the staff. Good management is about getting the best out of your people and he didn't have a clue. How could anyone respect and follow such a man ? As @Sage observed, Lyle Taylor - who talked to Sunderland before joining us - would have sussed him out in a couple of minutes.
I felt sorry for Stewart Donald and he totally fell apart during the Will Grigg negotiations. He seems a decent guy but it’s another example of someone acquiring a club without having the financial resources to sustain it. His wife talked a lot of sense to him. He inherited a difficult situation but at least Ellis Short had the decency to write off the £152million debt owed to him (unlike Roland). Some stupid decisions had clearly been made under the previous regime, including the Martin Bain memorial cryogenic chamber. Incidentally, I see that the club had to pay Bain £1.1million to get rid of him.
The loss of Maja was a major turning point. Why on earth didn’t they keep him until the end of the season ? To flog him for Euro 1.5 million was incredibly stupid and short-sighted, especially as there was an identity of interest between the club and Maja in him performing well during the second half of the season.
Sunderland are a great set of supporters - as well we know from our epic Wembley encounters with them. They all come across as thoroughly decent people and I particularly liked the two old ladies interviewed before the injury time defeat at Fleetwood - “I’ve got no faith in them. They're not good enough.” Their objectivity was in stark contrast to the cock-eyed optimism of the kit man.
On a different note, while the current season feels a bit irrelevant in the context of what’s happening in the world, it was a pity about McGeady’s lack of fitness when he came to us, as he can certainly play.
The hope is that this break might mean Aiden can be at a similar level to other players when the season resumes.
Just watched this. Agree with comments that this is nowhere near as good as season one (as much as the ending was amazing for us).
My biggest criticism is summed up by the opening few minutes - it felt like they’d hired actors. The new guy explaining the current situation to a group of employees felt entirely staged. It played out like an episode of The Office. And all the inserts were shots of kid playing in slow motion. There was nothing real about it.
I went into this looking for ideas to shamelessly rip off for my own doc, and came away thinking, there’s plenty in there I want to avoid. So much was forced, particularly from the supporters they focus on. It felt to me like the only truly natural moment was ‘why is it never us celebrating?’
As @Valley11 said, they seemed to lack stories in their rushes. Which is insane given the nature of their season.
Comments
Have watched 4 episodes so far, rationing myself to 1 episode a day (and none yesterday) so looking forward to the day after tomorrow
Agree with you there. It was an important part of the documentary and they simply didn't provide all the facts. Actually looked deliberately muddled.
Credit has to be given to Wigan regarding the negotiating for Grigg, they held their nerve and got a fantastic deal for themselves.
That could easily have been any of us.
Might skip to last episode.
Charlie is an arrogant prick, but that speech at the start of episode one, well that was bang on.
It seemed like they had someone clever at that point and slid downhill from there.
Thought it was quite entertaining that they started well with a ton of injuries and got worse as their team got fitter.
Donald and Charlie set a rod for their own backs the day they arrived with the whole “it’s your club” (sound familiar?) “we will be transparent” and “we will only be here until we are no longer wanted” patter.
If Methven’s claim is true that they have turned the club debt to break even in one season, then actually, that is considerable success, particularly in the context of a football club. But of course, football is no normal business and success is measured on the field. Had they kept Maja to fire them to promotion, then Donald and Charlie would be like demi-gods in the eyes of the fans. The documentary is by no means transparent on this issue and the Mackems should rightly be aggrieved.
The fans agony in both series were tangible for all us real football fans but the first series was a far more enjoyable watch as it gave a greater insight to the footballing side of things. Some players were thoroughly detestable and others like our Johnny were relatably vulnerable.
I have grave doubts that Methven was being truthful when he said that about the club now operating at break-even - there seems no way for them to slash their costs from 45 million PA to anywhere near the 15 million PA revenue they get in League One.
They only had a couple of big earners left at that point (Ovideo, McGeady, Cattermole) so even by losing them they are not going to get close to cutting 30 million in costs out of the business - even if they do get rid of the Cryogenic chamber!
Methinks this may be some 'come hither' talk to entice a new buyer, remembering, of course, that is what these guys desperately want to do so they can cash out at a profit.
Of course, as you say, the real problem is that if you DO slash playing staff costs then that's actually counter-productive because - barring a miracle - you now have even less chance of getting out of the division.
Dont wish any ill on them, but we got double relegated and had plenty of nonsense happen to us since then and no ones falling over themselves to make a high budget docu about it.
Just shows how decent we are as fans not to rub their noses in it on the walk back.
And all the swearing is just attention seeking!
"Let's hear your ideas......then let's use mine anyway."
As other have said, Charlie Methven is an unpleasant individual, whose Old Etonian background, overblown self-confidence and cliche-ridden bluster have somehow seen him achieve well beyond his capabilities. He was bloody rude to staff and an arrogant bully. The young Irish lady clearly had his number, as did the rest of the staff. Good management is about getting the best out of your people and he didn't have a clue. How could anyone respect and follow such a man ? As @Sage observed, Lyle Taylor - who talked to Sunderland before joining us - would have sussed him out in a couple of minutes.
I felt sorry for Stewart Donald and he totally fell apart during the Will Grigg negotiations. He seems a decent guy but it’s another example of someone acquiring a club without having the financial resources to sustain it. His wife talked a lot of sense to him. He inherited a difficult situation but at least Ellis Short had the decency to write off the £152million debt owed to him (unlike Roland). Some stupid decisions had clearly been made under the previous regime, including the Martin Bain memorial cryogenic chamber. Incidentally, I see that the club had to pay Bain £1.1million to get rid of him.
The loss of Maja was a major turning point. Why on earth didn’t they keep him until the end of the season ? To flog him for Euro 1.5 million was incredibly stupid and short-sighted, especially as there was an identity of interest between the club and Maja in him performing well during the second half of the season.
Sunderland are a great set of supporters - as well we know from our epic Wembley encounters with them. They all come across as thoroughly decent people and I particularly liked the two old ladies interviewed before the injury time defeat at Fleetwood - “I’ve got no faith in them. They're not good enough.” Their objectivity was in stark contrast to the cock-eyed optimism of the kit man.
Sunderland are allegedly paying the other £15k.