Amos
Gunter - Famewo - Pearce - Maatsen
Maddison - Pratson - Shinnie - Williams
Aneke - Washington
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Harsh on Williams today
Comments
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Two wrongs don't make a right.southamptonaddick said:
Is it unprofessional and childish to humiliate a player for one error?J BLOCK said:I think it's unprofessional and childish to post what JW did.4 -
I quite agree but does the first wrong make it right?J BLOCK said:
Two wrongs don't make a right.southamptonaddick said:
Is it unprofessional and childish to humiliate a player for one error?J BLOCK said:I think it's unprofessional and childish to post what JW did.1 -
Is it anymore unprofessional then the first team player effectively leaking dressing room information to yourself?J BLOCK said:I think it's unprofessional and childish to post what JW did.
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These things are often done for a reason. Surely if Bowyer is losing the dressing room, it is good that it is out there. It gives others within the club the chance to resolve it before it gets worse.FishCostaFortune said:
Is it anymore unprofessional then the first team player effectively leaking dressing room information to yourself?J BLOCK said:I think it's unprofessional and childish to post what JW did.
If I had millions invested, I would want to be aware. I am pretty sure Thomas is aware and he is rightly going to be concerned.2 -
The whole lot. Reports of dressing room unrest, players going public on social media, manager going public with critcism. I’m sure he will want it nipped in the bud either wayiaitch said:
What bit is Thomas not going to be liking?DamoNorthStand said:First thing that comes to mind for me is that Thomas is gonna be watching on at this and not liking it one bit.
9 times out of 10 when a boss loses the team around him in my experience, the boss goes. I guess it will come down to whether or not he has 'lost the dressing room' as has been mooted on here.
Not what I want to happen here at all. But it wouldnt surprise me if this blew up and Thomas nipped it in the bud by bringing his own man in.
LB publicly commenting on a player or JW not doing his job?0 -
Well, that's what Ged Roddy is there at SL to report back, and to highlight issues to TS. If there is a problem long term we will know. BTW, which other player has publically shitballed LB?4
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DagenhamAddick said:I simply don't think Lee is the right person for Thomas S and the brand he wishes to build. There can be no room for sentiment and this isn't exclusive to Bowyer it goes for the whole 1st team coaching staff. Bowyer neither has the intellect or the gravitas for this journey. For me he has to find a way to get both Williams and Maddison into the same team. And I simply don't think he has the mental tools to achieve this at present.3
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I'm good with that you clearly have the mental tools:)Dazzler21 said:DagenhamAddick said:I simply don't think Lee is the right person for Thomas S and the brand he wishes to build. There can be no room for sentiment and this isn't exclusive to Bowyer it goes for the whole 1st team coaching staff. Bowyer neither has the intellect or the gravitas for this journey. For me he has to find a way to get both Williams and Maddison into the same team. And I simply don't think he has the mental tools to achieve this at present.Amos
Gunter - Famewo - Pearce - Maatsen
Maddison - Pratson - Shinnie - Williams
Aneke - Washington1 -
Absolutely this 100%! Whoever that is spilling that, needs to fucking leave!CharltontillidieCOYR said:
Im sorry havent read past this point to see what others have said or whats been expanded on but if this is even true whatever first team player is saying this hasnt been here long at all or showed even a tiny bit as much loyalty or passion as bowyer has along with the fact bowyer has worked miracles since the very first time he came in with usJ BLOCK said:
Lost it as in, 'the plot'. I can also add "that tactics are non existence"Dazzler21 said:
Would like to know if they meant gone batshit for the mistakes or actually lost it?J BLOCK said:Quote from one of the first team players this morning.
"Bowyer has f****** lost it"
He can't expect perfection every game from his players, just as we should not expect it from him and the players.
hes given us many many great times over the recent past with playoffs and wembley and sticking with us throughout the rubbish with ownership who knows what wld have happened had he left!! and i know whos side i pick over what is no doubt a player throwing his toys out the pram describing him because of something he doesnt like about bowyer when things have got a little tuff lately
no doubt them and there agent are bigtime charlies thinking there something special like a few we have had lately5 -
Pure speculation on my part, but JW doesn’t strike me as the sort of player that is a trouble maker and I think it must’ve taken something inside of him to be triggered to post it. I agree, it’s not the most professional move, but I remember watching the Sunderland Till I die documentary. JW came across as such a genuine and honest character. The same has been said about his time here. Everyone says what a good guy he is. I think there’s lessons to be learned on both sides here, but JW coming out and posting what he posted, plus your piece of insight, doesn’t really feel me with confidence about what Bowyer is doing and how he’s managing the team behind the scenes.J BLOCK said:
Two wrongs don't make a right.southamptonaddick said:
Is it unprofessional and childish to humiliate a player for one error?J BLOCK said:I think it's unprofessional and childish to post what JW did.
as per my last post, really hope things can be sorted, but when someone like JW posts something like that, perhaps it’s a sign that all is not well1 - Sponsored links:
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You don't know which player it is though...cafc_se7 said:
Absolutely this 100%! Whoever that is spilling that, needs to fucking leave!CharltontillidieCOYR said:
Im sorry havent read past this point to see what others have said or whats been expanded on but if this is even true whatever first team player is saying this hasnt been here long at all or showed even a tiny bit as much loyalty or passion as bowyer has along with the fact bowyer has worked miracles since the very first time he came in with usJ BLOCK said:
Lost it as in, 'the plot'. I can also add "that tactics are non existence"Dazzler21 said:
Would like to know if they meant gone batshit for the mistakes or actually lost it?J BLOCK said:Quote from one of the first team players this morning.
"Bowyer has f****** lost it"
He can't expect perfection every game from his players, just as we should not expect it from him and the players.
hes given us many many great times over the recent past with playoffs and wembley and sticking with us throughout the rubbish with ownership who knows what wld have happened had he left!! and i know whos side i pick over what is no doubt a player throwing his toys out the pram describing him because of something he doesnt like about bowyer when things have got a little tuff lately
no doubt them and there agent are bigtime charlies thinking there something special like a few we have had lately0 -
Well if the rumours about Solly and Bowyer falling out are true as well, it's not like there has not been previous.
That being said it is not exactly rare in football, or any line of work, for managers to fall out with players/staff.1 -
No, I was shocked to be honest with you with how frank it was.FishCostaFortune said:
Is it anymore unprofessional then the first team player effectively leaking dressing room information to yourself?J BLOCK said:I think it's unprofessional and childish to post what JW did.6 -
Worrying times indeed.J BLOCK said:
No, I was shocked to be honest with you with how frank it was.FishCostaFortune said:
Is it anymore unprofessional then the first team player effectively leaking dressing room information to yourself?J BLOCK said:I think it's unprofessional and childish to post what JW did.2 -
Back-to-back home matches coming up. Here's hoping we find two wins out of these matches and we can take some of the pressure of Bowyer's shoulders.3
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If he has lost the dressing room, it is only going to end one way. With respect, we haven't got 100% proof that is the case, although if it is, I would be surprised if Sandgaard was not aware. J Block is a reliable poster who I trust. If he is aware, there is little point not acting immediately IMO. There is a season to save.3
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Thing is it’s pressure that he has invited on himself.SouthWest_Addicks said:Back-to-back home matches coming up. Here's hoping we find two wins out of these matches and we can take some of the pressure of Bowyer's shoulders.3 -
JW post could also not be related to Charlton at all2
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That is absolutely possible. All I would say is that Williams is sensitive and intelligent enough to know that, given all that has gone on, even if it actually wasn't about LB it would still be interpreted by many fans as though it were.jacob_CAFC said:JW post could also not be related to Charlton at all1 -
I like bowyer but do feel he’s still got a lot to learn about man management.. these things should be dealt with internally. JW isn’t the first to jump out of a challenge. If that’s the standard LB had then all I can say is lucky we can use 5 subs... going to need them.
for me JW should start a run of games.. I’m confident his class will tell then2 - Sponsored links:
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I met William back in the 18/19 season, nice fella, I asked him what he made of the Team Spirit in the dressing room, his response was "Never experienced anything like it before"
Clearly that is what Bowyer brought to Charlton, however, that was a young team, in comparison this team is not, six regulars players aged between 35 & 30, nine between 25 & 30 it has to be different to manage.
(Note I believe 18/19 we had nine players over 25, with only three over 30)
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It's not for just one error - got to be more to it. But to put some cryptic bollx on social media is childish and unprofessional.southamptonaddick said:
Is it unprofessional and childish to humiliate a player for one error?J BLOCK said:I think it's unprofessional and childish to post what JW did.
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Taken a few days away from all things Charlton to focus on the real world(there is one out there) and have come to the conclusion that Bows was bang out of order to JW. He isn't the first(even in that game) and won't be the last to bottle a challenge, and to embarrass him in public was a stupid thing to do.
JW posting that cryptic shit on Instagram is a stupid thing to do. He'll be well aware of the rumours online about Bows losing the changing room and tbh I thought JW was better than that.
I will never be Bowyer out simply because I don't think we'd have a club left to support if he walked away, but he needs to snap out of this blame game he's got himself into. Hopefully this week off will give him some extra time away.
He needs to regain control of the dressing room and the senior members of staff, both coaching and playing need to step up and help him with this before it's too late. If it's allowed to continue for too much longer then there's a real risk of us fucking this season up beyond repair.
Us fans can help too by continuing to support Bows and the players.
Keep the faith.4 -
Fully agreeArsenetatters said:
It's not for just one error - got to be more to it. But to put some cryptic bollx on social media is childish and unprofessional.southamptonaddick said:
Is it unprofessional and childish to humiliate a player for one error?J BLOCK said:I think it's unprofessional and childish to post what JW did.1 -
AmosDazzler21 said:DagenhamAddick said:I simply don't think Lee is the right person for Thomas S and the brand he wishes to build. There can be no room for sentiment and this isn't exclusive to Bowyer it goes for the whole 1st team coaching staff. Bowyer neither has the intellect or the gravitas for this journey. For me he has to find a way to get both Williams and Maddison into the same team. And I simply don't think he has the mental tools to achieve this at present.Amos
Gunter - Famewo - Pearce - Maatsen
Maddison - Pratson - Shinnie - Williams
Aneke - WashingtonSmyth - Bogle - Famewo- MaatsenMaddison - Gilby - Shinnie - WilliamsAneke - Washington3 -
Agreed, you don't bollock strikers into being more clinical in front of goal, otherwise shouting at mediocre strikers would turn them into Jamie VardyAddick Addict said:I originally raised the issue about LB publicly calling out players when he blamed Bonne for missing a chance. If anything, that was a less serious offence because at least Bonne was trying to score whereas Williams made no attempt to make the tackle.
I said on the other thread that I felt that Bowyer slightly lost his mojo midway through last season with the injury crisis, ESI nonsense and Southall. A worrying tendency to call out individuals in public, and a negative mindset.
When you're desperately clinging on to a 1 goal lead for victory, chances are that someone will make a mistake that costs you the win. But if you fill your team with honest workhorses who will track back, but create little, you'll never score the goals to make things comfortable and avoid having to cling on.
We picked a very negative midfield on Saturday against a mediocre Shrewsbury team, and as a result looked desperately ordinary and unthreatening. Yes our squad was put together in a rush, but you get the feeling at the moment that we're not getting the best out of it at the moment. The constant public criticisms of players can't be helping team spirit either, you can't build a team just out of dependable workhorse likes Pratley and Pearce, you do need spark from the more maverick players as well.13 -
It's hardly an original or novel concept but as clichéd as it may be I do wonder whether Bowyer's own game having multiple facets and his undoubted talent as a midfielder leads him to struggle with the idea that some players just don't have that same mentality and ability.
It doesn't matter how much you call out (for instance) Williams or what training he does, he will not ever be a tough tackling combative type. Perhaps it's a case where Bowyer needs to take a step back and look at players for who/what they actually are instead of what he'd like them to be.18 -
I think you are spot on,many great players have not made it as managers simply because they cannot understand how lesser players cannot do what they do,Hoddle,Roy Keane, two examples.Also think Bowyer is now under a pressure he was not under before Sangaard came in,he virtually had a free run as expectations where low,things have changed ,hope he sorts it soon or the season will collapse.thenewbie said:It's hardly an original or novel concept but as clichéd as it may be I do wonder whether Bowyer's own game having multiple facets and his undoubted talent as a midfielder leads him to struggle with the idea that some players just don't have that same mentality and ability.
It doesn't matter how much you call out (for instance) Williams or what training he does, he will not ever be a tough tackling combative type. Perhaps it's a case where Bowyer needs to take a step back and look at players for who/what they actually are instead of what he'd like them to be.0
