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POST-MATCH THREAD: Charlton v Accrington | Fri 8 Jan 2021

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Comments

  • Major
    Major Posts: 1,027
    HandG said:
    Major said:
    HandG said:
    FishCostaFortune said:
    mendonca said:
    FishCostaFortune said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    This says it all for me.

    Who were the 'alot' who were given a chance when they had no other options? I can only really think of Williams and Maddison. 

    Players he has both publicly called out, and dropped after good performances. 
    Morgan, Bogle, Maddison, Morgan, Williams, Bogle.
    Thing is Bogle didn't even play today, and Maddison and Williams only played 30 minutes. So seems unfair to solely blame them for today's performance. 

    Seems like, whatever happens, Williams gets the blame. 

    Well he deserved it today. Should have been wearing a Tutu.
    I respectfully disagree. Like many of the squad, he is not getting a good run in the team to prove himself and instead expected to prove himself in cameos which for any player is pretty difficult.

    I do see your point but he didn't exactly put himself about when he got the chance.
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,881
    Major said:
    HandG said:
    Major said:
    HandG said:
    FishCostaFortune said:
    mendonca said:
    FishCostaFortune said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    This says it all for me.

    Who were the 'alot' who were given a chance when they had no other options? I can only really think of Williams and Maddison. 

    Players he has both publicly called out, and dropped after good performances. 
    Morgan, Bogle, Maddison, Morgan, Williams, Bogle.
    Thing is Bogle didn't even play today, and Maddison and Williams only played 30 minutes. So seems unfair to solely blame them for today's performance. 

    Seems like, whatever happens, Williams gets the blame. 

    Well he deserved it today. Should have been wearing a Tutu.
    I respectfully disagree. Like many of the squad, he is not getting a good run in the team to prove himself and instead expected to prove himself in cameos which for any player is pretty difficult.

    I do see your point but he didn't exactly put himself about when he got the chance.
    Maybe he thinks that even if he plays well, he'll be left on the bench the next game or bollocked for one missed tackle
  • Major
    Major Posts: 1,027
    killerandflash said:
    Major said:
    HandG said:
    Major said:
    HandG said:
    FishCostaFortune said:
    mendonca said:
    FishCostaFortune said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    This says it all for me.

    Who were the 'alot' who were given a chance when they had no other options? I can only really think of Williams and Maddison. 

    Players he has both publicly called out, and dropped after good performances. 
    Morgan, Bogle, Maddison, Morgan, Williams, Bogle.
    Thing is Bogle didn't even play today, and Maddison and Williams only played 30 minutes. So seems unfair to solely blame them for today's performance. 

    Seems like, whatever happens, Williams gets the blame. 

    Well he deserved it today. Should have been wearing a Tutu.
    I respectfully disagree. Like many of the squad, he is not getting a good run in the team to prove himself and instead expected to prove himself in cameos which for any player is pretty difficult.

    I do see your point but he didn't exactly put himself about when he got the chance.
    Maybe he thinks that even if he plays well, he'll be left on the bench the next game or bollocked for one missed tackle

    Who knows? But he should be giving his all, whatever. It's his job.
  • Carter
    Carter Posts: 14,252
    killerandflash said:
    Major said:
    HandG said:
    Major said:
    HandG said:
    FishCostaFortune said:
    mendonca said:
    FishCostaFortune said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    This says it all for me.

    Who were the 'alot' who were given a chance when they had no other options? I can only really think of Williams and Maddison. 

    Players he has both publicly called out, and dropped after good performances. 
    Morgan, Bogle, Maddison, Morgan, Williams, Bogle.
    Thing is Bogle didn't even play today, and Maddison and Williams only played 30 minutes. So seems unfair to solely blame them for today's performance. 

    Seems like, whatever happens, Williams gets the blame. 

    Well he deserved it today. Should have been wearing a Tutu.
    I respectfully disagree. Like many of the squad, he is not getting a good run in the team to prove himself and instead expected to prove himself in cameos which for any player is pretty difficult.

    I do see your point but he didn't exactly put himself about when he got the chance.
    Maybe he thinks that even if he plays well, he'll be left on the bench the next game or bollocked for one missed tackle
    I do see where you are coming from but I disagree, we have seen and heard so much from Lee Bowyer and the players that they get honesty from him and he expects them to leave it all on the pitch every game. Pulling out of 50/50's goes completely against that. It isn't a case of someone like Johnny Williams or Maddison smashing people left right and centre its about competing, if a full back knows a winger doesn't fancy it I guarantee they will dominate that player as they know how to get to them 
  • thenewbie
    thenewbie Posts: 11,003
    Major said:
    HandG said:
    Major said:
    HandG said:
    FishCostaFortune said:
    mendonca said:
    FishCostaFortune said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    This says it all for me.

    Who were the 'alot' who were given a chance when they had no other options? I can only really think of Williams and Maddison. 

    Players he has both publicly called out, and dropped after good performances. 
    Morgan, Bogle, Maddison, Morgan, Williams, Bogle.
    Thing is Bogle didn't even play today, and Maddison and Williams only played 30 minutes. So seems unfair to solely blame them for today's performance. 

    Seems like, whatever happens, Williams gets the blame. 

    Well he deserved it today. Should have been wearing a Tutu.
    I respectfully disagree. Like many of the squad, he is not getting a good run in the team to prove himself and instead expected to prove himself in cameos which for any player is pretty difficult.

    I do see your point but he didn't exactly put himself about when he got the chance.
    But not every player NEEDS to "put themselves about" - it's not beneficial or conducive to what he does bring instead. A team of 11 fancy-pants prima donnas is obviously not going to be highly successful but neither are 11 scrappy battlers. You need both. 
    From Bowyer's comments about missing the likes of Pratley and Watson it seems he's convinced himself that enough "fight" will somehow compensate for any or all missing qualities on the pitch. There's been ample evidence to the contrary.
  • Carter
    Carter Posts: 14,252
    I genuinely don't think he expects that, he dies want people to compete though and one of the tackles Maddison jumped out of was right on top of him he didn't have to move far to be in the position to win the ball. 

    As an aside I'm slightly surprised that professionals now will have watched Aguero, Tevez, Suarez play and those guys get 6 or 7 goals every season by pressuring the opposition into making a mistake playing out from the back. I think Washington does it and I'd put him in that age bracket but just surprised more don’t 
  • Major
    Major Posts: 1,027
    thenewbie said:
    Major said:
    HandG said:
    Major said:
    HandG said:
    FishCostaFortune said:
    mendonca said:
    FishCostaFortune said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    This says it all for me.

    Who were the 'alot' who were given a chance when they had no other options? I can only really think of Williams and Maddison. 

    Players he has both publicly called out, and dropped after good performances. 
    Morgan, Bogle, Maddison, Morgan, Williams, Bogle.
    Thing is Bogle didn't even play today, and Maddison and Williams only played 30 minutes. So seems unfair to solely blame them for today's performance. 

    Seems like, whatever happens, Williams gets the blame. 

    Well he deserved it today. Should have been wearing a Tutu.
    I respectfully disagree. Like many of the squad, he is not getting a good run in the team to prove himself and instead expected to prove himself in cameos which for any player is pretty difficult.

    I do see your point but he didn't exactly put himself about when he got the chance.
    But not every player NEEDS to "put themselves about" - it's not beneficial or conducive to what he does bring instead. A team of 11 fancy-pants prima donnas is obviously not going to be highly successful but neither are 11 scrappy battlers. You need both. 
    From Bowyer's comments about missing the likes of Pratley and Watson it seems he's convinced himself that enough "fight" will somehow compensate for any or all missing qualities on the pitch. There's been ample evidence to the contrary.

    In the most successful teams these day, even the flair players are 'scrappy battlers' when it is called for (Well, except for Arsenal).
    By 'Put himself about', I didn't mean go clattering into people for the sake of it - he's not physically capable but he should be a presence on the park. Challenge for the ball, take a man on, make a run, show he is up for it, instead of what he offered in that last outing, where he didn't bring anything, at least from what I saw.
  • Mendonca In Asdas
    Mendonca In Asdas Posts: 22,653
    Didn't want to join in with knee jerk reactionary posts on Friday / over the weekend, otherwise we all end up having an online bundle!

    Safe to say we need significant improvements, if we are to salvage this season.

    I think we'll be lucky to make the playoffs / get promoted, but then i thought that when we were last in this division and we'd just sold Karlan, so who knows what's going to happen, my likely guess is a rebuild in the summer, hope Thomas doesn't get twitchy fingers and Lee gets his head right, just as well the fans aint there, screaming for blood!
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,733
    edited January 2021
    Whether Bowyer is right or wrong, you should never dig out an individual player in public. You bite your tongue and shut up and address it with the player a day or two later. More times than not, the player will agree with you and you actually are better placed to address the issue.

    What you also have is team mates who will be aware if a player is not pulling his weight or ducking out of challenges they shouldn't. They will make their feelings known to the player concerned.

    I think we saw the same thing with Roy Keane. When he started in management he did a good job. But when things started slipping he started to manage like the player he was. He was a great player, but also a complete see you next Tuesday. In all honesty, so was Bowyer. You don't want to see that coming out in the way they manage. Before ESI, I would have argued Bowyer had got rid of this trait, but since ESI, it has well and truly returned. It is the trait which meant people would be amazed how Bowyer was doing so well because it is not a successful managerial trait. 
  • Bailey
    Bailey Posts: 3,268
    Depends if the players in the squad buy into that ethos I would have thought. Jason Pearce was quite vocal in defending Bowyer's high standards after the chastening Williams got for bottling a challenge. Jason Pearce then got a public ear bashing for defending like a park player and rightly so but as I said what would a 17000 crowd have done to the players after that second half performance, Williams performance and Pearce's mistake would probably have got people out of their seats and not in a good way.

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  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,733
    Everybody makes mistakes and Williams wasn't that bad. The issue on Friday was with the whole team.
  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,886
    edited January 2021
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    Everybody makes mistakes and Williams wasn't that bad. The issue on Friday was with the whole team.
    None of them were brilliant Millar, JFC Chuks and Oshilaja outfield not too bad as we witnessed but Williams was fourth worst in the statbank on 4.38 with only Morgan, Gilbey and Pearce below him.
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,360
    Bailey said:
    Depends if the players in the squad buy into that ethos I would have thought. Jason Pearce was quite vocal in defending Bowyer's high standards after the chastening Williams got for bottling a challenge. 
    Was he though?
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,360
    edited January 2021
    RedChaser said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    Everybody makes mistakes and Williams wasn't that bad. The issue on Friday was with the whole team.
    None of them were brilliant Millar, JFC Chuks and Oshilaja outfield not too bad as we witnessed but Williams was fourth worst in the statbank on 4.38 with only Morgan, Gilbey and Pearce below him.
    Funniest thing is, other than a couple of mis-timed tackles Morgan wasn't doing that badly. He even had 85% passing accuracy and created a few chances. IT FEELS LIKE Bowyer loves to blame him and Williams... 
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,360
    MattF said:
    https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/charlton-boss-bowyer-urges-former-hull-and-posh-attacker-to-try-and-add-more-bite-to-his-game/
    Albie in 'Gets praise for trying' shocker!
  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,886
    edited January 2021
    Dazzler21 said:
    RedChaser said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    Everybody makes mistakes and Williams wasn't that bad. The issue on Friday was with the whole team.
    None of them were brilliant Millar, JFC Chuks and Oshilaja outfield not too bad as we witnessed but Williams was fourth worst in the statbank on 4.38 with only Morgan, Gilbey and Pearce below him.
    Funniest thing is, other than a couple of mis-timed tackles Morgan wasn't doing that badly. He even had 85% passing accuracy and created a few chances. Bowyer loves to blame the lad. 
    I don’t think it’s personal Daz, he just wants to improve him and in the London News on line article I’ve just read, mainly about Maddison he gives him credit for trying to improve the defensive side of his game.

    Notwithstanding the stats I didn’t really notice Albie do that much first half on Friday apart from blaze over very high when he cut in from the left and get booked for being slightly late in a tackle which was probably frustration. To me he didn’t look as if he fancied it from his body language. Gilbey was no better IMO though and the players marks tended to reflect that. We all see thing’s differently though otherwise we’d be robots 😉.
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,360
    Have we had the passing thing from Accrington yet? That usually tells a bit of a story of how involved players are. 

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